Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team) - next step
Hi to all, Remember the ongoing proposition for organizing the Belgian LoCo Team : comments till 15/08/2009. See details below. -- Jean Ubuntu Belgium Events Team jean7491 a écrit : Hi, As follow-up to my mails 11/07 and 12/07 about the need for a better organization of the LoCo Team, a first draft "Proposed organization of the Belgian Local Community Team" has been posted in de wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/TeamOrganization Please feel free to comment the proposal : constructive comments can be added in the Section 3 of the wiki page or in the mailing list till the 15/08/2009. If enough interested people are willing to work on this project, we could create an ad hoc Thinking Team in charge of the further development of a proposed organization. -- Jean Ubuntu Belgium Events Team -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
[Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team) - next step
Hi, As follow-up to my mails 11/07 and 12/07 about the need for a better organization of the LoCo Team, a first draft "Proposed organization of the Belgian Local Community Team" has been posted in de wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/TeamOrganization Please feel free to comment the proposal : constructive comments can be added in the Section 3 of the wiki page or in the mailing list till the 15/08/2009. If enough interested people are willing to work on this project, we could create an ad hoc Thinking Team in charge of the further development of a proposed organization. -- Jean Ubuntu Belgium Events Team -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
Op dinsdag 14-07-2009 om 00:55 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Steven De Baets: > 3. In addition to point 2: We would clearly benefit from a team > structure. I'm very happy to hear the Events Team has been created, > but we need more teams such as marketing, That team should also help with the website restructuring... > translation, To be clear: translations for the site & marketing stuff, not translation of applications & docs (see ubuntu-nl/fr/de for that). > and so on. I don't know who can put them up? If I can help, I would be > happy to do so. -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
This discussion is clearly getting out of hand. People shouting about, making statements or insulting others don't help anybody and certainly don't help ubuntu-be. Here are my two cents: 1. Language is not an issue. Depending on what you are writing about and to whoms intrest, you can choose whatever language you like to write in. If an issue is purely aimed at the Flemish part, feel free to write in Dutch. If there is a bigger interest, write in English. As simple as that. But please do remember you are not alone on this planet, and the Ubuntu-movement is a very big movement spread all over the globe. 2. We do need more structure. Nobody knows who's doing what, lists are not updated, and people who want to get involved and take responsabilities, please do so. Put your skills on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/Skills, get your profile up in the Ubuntu wiki. Switching to a more formal structure is a thing that will be necessary, but it won't and it shouldn't happen overnight. Let's walk before we start running. 3. In addition to point 2: We would clearly benefit from a team structure. I'm very happy to hear the Events Team has been created, but we need more teams such as marketing, translation, and so on. I don't know who can put them up? If I can help, I would be happy to do so. 4. As Pierre wrote: A voting system with deadline would be a great feature to facilitate decision-making (for instance on spending or ordering things). Once the deadline has passed, everybody had their chance to vote and post suggestions, and the decision has been made. Done. Maybe we do have to get better Launchpad integration for some issues (if possible?), as I have found Launchpad pretty helpful in working with the international teams. And please, Rome wasn't built in one day, so do never expect to turn the key today and have a perfectly working organisation tomorrow. Things will have to be thought through and discussed, let's do it in a decent and respectful way. This will always be a long and winding road, but if we do this one step at a time, you never know we might get somewhere... These are my thoughts on the matter... Anyway, i'll be leaving the country for a couple of days now, and hope to get busy when I return! Steven. -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
Hi, On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Pierre Buyle wrote: > I understand the issue highlighted by Jean's mail concerning the decision > making process of Ubuntu-be. As I earlier tried to told him, there is no > formal decision process in Ubuntu-be because we are not a formal > organozation. And yes, this can be slow down things and be conterproductive. > I've no idea of how it can be solved. I think it can be worked around with > self-organization of small, task focused groups. The only Ubuntu-be wide > action that have to be taken are money spending. For this, we could > formalize voting. Something like: when a decision has to be made, a vote is > called. Every member of the Ubuntu-be team (on Launchpad) registered before > the call has one voice. Votes are open for a limited period of time. After > the voting period, if the majority of the voters have said 'yes', the money > can be spend. I really like this idea, I think this is the most important process that needs to be formalised! [Good idea Pierre!] > > The language excuse is the lamest I ever heard. I you really think the > language is the issue, please go create Ubuntu-vla. Go create your own > single language LoCo Team. Go to the LoCo council and explain why you think > it is a good think and respect the Ubuntu spirit. Really, please do it. > Leave us do the multi-language way. We will be pleased to announce for your > events on our mailing list and website. We will be happy to publicize your > realizations too. Unlike our beloved country, we don't have an old legacy > keeping us together. I really think this would be stupid, but clearly you > disagree. Since we cannot find a consensus, we better split up. And since we > are Ubuntu-be, your are to ones who need to leave. I couldn't agree more :). [We are small enough as it is, if anybody wants to divide this group into Flamish/Brabanders/the one with hats on/men-women, please do.] Communicating in English has nothing to do with keeping/loosing your cultural identity, it is what it is: communicating with a group of people that have a different native language to do some good for ubuntu. If your english isn't very well nobody will react irritated when you speak in your native language (except if it is in an extreme form of 'Vloanderss' ;-). Rob. -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
A wiki page is the best solution for me. We can also use the Blueprint feature of launchpad. A blueprint can be used to track evolution of the discussion and who is in charge. Jean, you can register a new blueprint at https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-belgium/+addspec. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 6:21 PM, jean7491 wrote: > Hi, > > First, I am only writing about the Belgian LoCo Team. > The language problem is not my concern. > For a better effectivenes, the Belgian LoCo Team should change from the > not formal organization to a more formal structure with members, working > groups and a decision level (a council which is mandated to decide). > But the first step is to think about this issue within an ad-hoc thinking > group. > I am just wondering how to create such a group to elaborate coordinated > proposals. > Later we can exchange ideas in the mailing list on these proposals. > > What do you think about a page in the wiki where we can describe and > discuss proposed stucture for the LoCo Team? > -- > Jean > *Ubuntu Belgium Events Team* > > > > Pierre Buyle a écrit : > > Hi, > > I understand the issue highlighted by Jean's mail concerning the decision > making process of Ubuntu-be. As I earlier tried to told him, there is no > formal decision process in Ubuntu-be because we are not a formal > organozation. And yes, this can be slow down things and be conterproductive. > I've no idea of how it can be solved. I think it can be worked around with > self-organization of small, task focused groups. The only Ubuntu-be wide > action that have to be taken are money spending. For this, we could > formalize voting. Something like: when a decision has to be made, a vote is > called. Every member of the Ubuntu-be team (on Launchpad) registered before > the call has one voice. Votes are open for a limited period of time. After > the voting period, if the majority of the voters have said 'yes', the money > can be spend. > > The language excuse is the lamest I ever heard. I you really think the > language is the issue, please go create Ubuntu-vla. Go create your own > single language LoCo Team. Go to the LoCo council and explain why you think > it is a good think and respect the Ubuntu spirit. Really, please do it. > Leave us do the multi-language way. We will be pleased to announce for your > events on our mailing list and website. We will be happy to publicize your > realizations too. Unlike our beloved country, we don't have an old legacy > keeping us together. I really think this would be stupid, but clearly you > disagree. Since we cannot find a consensus, we better split up. And since we > are Ubuntu-be, your are to ones who need to leave. > > > > -- > ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be > > -- mongolito404, king of the mongolian people -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
Hi, First, I am only writing about the Belgian LoCo Team. The language problem is not my concern. For a better effectivenes, the Belgian LoCo Team should change from the not formal organization to a more formal structure with members, working groups and a decision level (a council which is mandated to decide). But the first step is to think about this issue within an ad-hoc thinking group. I am just wondering how to create such a group to elaborate coordinated proposals. Later we can exchange ideas in the mailing list on these proposals. What do you think about a page in the wiki where we can describe and discuss proposed stucture for the LoCo Team? -- Jean Ubuntu Belgium Events Team Pierre Buyle a écrit : Hi, I understand the issue highlighted by Jean's mail concerning the decision making process of Ubuntu-be. As I earlier tried to told him, there is no formal decision process in Ubuntu-be because we are not a formal organozation. And yes, this can be slow down things and be conterproductive. I've no idea of how it can be solved. I think it can be worked around with self-organization of small, task focused groups. The only Ubuntu-be wide action that have to be taken are money spending. For this, we could formalize voting. Something like: when a decision has to be made, a vote is called. Every member of the Ubuntu-be team (on Launchpad) registered before the call has one voice. Votes are open for a limited period of time. After the voting period, if the majority of the voters have said 'yes', the money can be spend. The language excuse is the lamest I ever heard. I you really think the language is the issue, please go create Ubuntu-vla. Go create your own single language LoCo Team. Go to the LoCo council and explain why you think it is a good think and respect the Ubuntu spirit. Really, please do it. Leave us do the multi-language way. We will be pleased to announce for your events on our mailing list and website. We will be happy to publicize your realizations too. Unlike our beloved country, we don't have an old legacy keeping us together. I really think this would be stupid, but clearly you disagree. Since we cannot find a consensus, we better split up. And since we are Ubuntu-be, your are to ones who need to leave. -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
Hi, I understand the issue highlighted by Jean's mail concerning the decision making process of Ubuntu-be. As I earlier tried to told him, there is no formal decision process in Ubuntu-be because we are not a formal organozation. And yes, this can be slow down things and be conterproductive. I've no idea of how it can be solved. I think it can be worked around with self-organization of small, task focused groups. The only Ubuntu-be wide action that have to be taken are money spending. For this, we could formalize voting. Something like: when a decision has to be made, a vote is called. Every member of the Ubuntu-be team (on Launchpad) registered before the call has one voice. Votes are open for a limited period of time. After the voting period, if the majority of the voters have said 'yes', the money can be spend. The language excuse is the lamest I ever heard. I you really think the language is the issue, please go create Ubuntu-vla. Go create your own single language LoCo Team. Go to the LoCo council and explain why you think it is a good think and respect the Ubuntu spirit. Really, please do it. Leave us do the multi-language way. We will be pleased to announce for your events on our mailing list and website. We will be happy to publicize your realizations too. Unlike our beloved country, we don't have an old legacy keeping us together. I really think this would be stupid, but clearly you disagree. Since we cannot find a consensus, we better split up. And since we are Ubuntu-be, your are to ones who need to leave. -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team)
Ik volg al heel lang deze Ubuntu-lijst op de voet. Wat ik zie, dat er niemand de verantwoordelijkheid durft op te nemen om bepaalde knopen door te hakken! De posters zijn goed iedereen akkoord? Wie niet reageerde is dus ook akkoord, jullie hebben tijd genoeg gehad. Wie zijn eigen taal wenst te gebruiken, doe dat gerust. À propos hoe kunnen we tot belangrijke vergelijken komen, indein we het na al die tijd nog niet eens zijn over het gebruik van de taal. We leven nu eenmaal in een plurealistische omgeving. So what's the big deal??? Het haad niet over de fauten die we sgrijfen, het gaat over de inhoud! En dat is een statement. Back to earth, guys. Hij/Zij die wil meewerken, moet hierbij zijn verantwoordelijkheid opnemen, of de moed hebben te zeggen "ik doe het niet meer" En dit dat aanpassen in de lijst. Voorstel: in plaats van een dergelijke discussie over een malinglist te laten lopen, ben ik best bereid om een (gesloten) forum Op te zetten om alles per onderwerp te plaatsen, want eerlijk dergelijke mails lopen me het strot uit! Godvermilardetegendemuergebottoneerdeschevelavabo, grow up! Hear har Met voorname groet, Yours truly, Ivan Flo -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: ubuntu-be-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-be-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] Namens martijn cielen Verzonden: zondag 12 juli 2009 2:59 Aan: Ubuntu Belgium Onderwerp: Re: [Ubuntu-be] About the Belgian Local Community Team (BelgianLoCo Team) Ik ben steeds bereid een degelijke bijdrage te leveren in een goed georganiseerd team dat: 1. zijn afkomst (zij het Vlaams/Waals/Zulu) niet verloochent, en dus ook zijn moedertaal spreekt. Als er dan toch een "universele" taal moet gesproken worden, kunnen we nog beter met zijn allen Esperanto leren. En ter info: ik ben niet bang om Engels te spreken of te schrijven, ik durf zelfs zeggen dat mijn Engels beter is dan dat van 90% van de lijst-gebruikers. Ik vind gewoon dat het Nederlands en het Frans niet moeten wijken voor het Engels. We hebben in Vlaanderen verdomme hard genoeg moeten vechten om Nederlands te kunnen spreken! 2. Een degelijke structuur heeft, en bereid is op professionele manier te werk te gaan. Ik heb te veel tijd verdaan in amateuristisch georganiseerde feitelijke vernenigingen. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Jan Claeys wrote: > Op zondag 12-07-2009 om 01:10 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Steven De > Baets: > > 4. Ik merk ook een roep naar het opsplitsen van de Belgische Loco > > naar een Vlaamse en een Waalse. > > Yeah, splitting up from 7 people into groups of 4, 1, 1 & 1 active > people is really useful (*NOT* !!!). > > Please everybody, contribute first, then (maybe) if a part of the > community gets large enough to be sustainable on its own we can talk > about splitting it out into a subdivision. > > > -- > Jan Claeys > > > -- > ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.11/2232 - Release Date: 07/11/09 17:56:00 -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
