Re: [Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
Well, I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only offering to make a sale. I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: I'm using *blabla* on my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing these steps: *blablabla* Or even: Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it contains drivers for ubuntu In extremis it could be: let me google this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ... Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an option, and then the shop is he place to be. Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer spammer didn't help me any further either. Grtz, Jurgen On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote: Is there a code of conduct, guidelines, on how to approach things like this? What i'm trying to say is, what if you know a good link/shop/space that can help you? What would be the appropriate action to take? Needless to say i too disagree with spamming any list, but it's something i was asking myself just yet... 2012/12/21 martijn cielen mcie...@gmail.com mailto:mcie...@gmail.com Jan, frankly I don't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything when they abuse a mailing list to spam. When I send messages to this list, I use my personal address, and not my commercial one. Ideally, others should do the same. Martijn On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jan Bongaerts jbongae...@gmail.com mailto:jbongae...@gmail.com wrote: Easy now! Silent Computers has done more for ubuntu-be than most. 2012/12/20 martijn cielen mcie...@gmail.com mailto:mcie...@gmail.com spammer 2012/12/20 Lesia Valèri lesiaval...@gmail.com mailto:lesiaval...@gmail.com Hi, daar is de Silent computers' shop voor! Stuurt die dame naar ons toe, wij zullen wel beste oplossing voor vinden! 2012/12/19 Jurgen Gaeremyn jur...@gaeremyn.be mailto:jur...@gaeremyn.be Hi... I was popped this question today... (and I'm interested myself too). Anyone on our list who can help this lady? hi, does anybody know a good smartphone? (not too expensive 180 euro) which is easy to use and synchronize with ubuntu 12.04... thanks, M Met vriendelijke groeten, Lesia Valeri *Silent computers * startklare computers stil, eco, energiebesparend persoonlijke raadpleging service binnen 1 werkdag thuisinstallatie *www.to-my-taste.com * http://www.to-my-taste.com/ Uw computerspecialist! Audiofiel 3D TV thuis business studie C.A.T. Home set Winkel:Wijnegem Shopping Center / Turnhoutsebaan 5 / ingang 5 / winkel 182 /open ma-za 10-00 uur, vr 10-21uur Silent computers b.v.b.a.BTW 0819 659 205 IBAN: BE51 001-5950645-62 BIC GEBABEBB Postadres:Dorenboslaan 6, b182, 2110 Wijnegem, Tel.:+32 3 353 00 84 tel:%2B32%203%20353%2000%2084 GSM: 0487 614 227 e-mail: lesiaval...@gmail.com mailto:lesiaval...@gmail.com -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- Have you tried Ubuntu Linux yet? Check out http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/why-use-ubuntu and find out why it is a better option than trying to upgrade your hardware to accomodate a newer version of your current system. -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again: when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means. On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote: I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the responses that followed. If one states that he didn't *give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything* than that means he doesn't care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that offensive and take it as a slap in the face. It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him- or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words: *Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself captures the spirit of being human.* A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your words and actions. I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value. And with this rant and words that might mean more to some than others I leave you Have a nice day all, who knows it might be our last. Regards Wouter Vandenneucker 2012/12/21 Jurgen Gaeremyn jurgen.gaere...@pandora.be Well, I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only offering to make a sale. I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: I'm using *blabla* on my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing these steps: *blablabla* Or even: Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it contains drivers for ubuntu In extremis it could be: let me google this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ... Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an option, and then the shop is he place to be. Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer spammer didn't help me any further either. Grtz, Jurgen On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote: Is there a code of conduct, guidelines, on how to approach things like this? What i'm trying to say is, what if you know a good link/shop/space that can help you? What would be the appropriate action to take? Needless to say i too disagree with spamming any list, but it's something i was asking myself just yet... 2012/12/21 martijn cielen mcie...@gmail.com Jan, frankly I don't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything when they abuse a mailing list to spam. When I send messages to this list, I use my personal address, and not my commercial one. Ideally, others should do the same. Martijn On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Jan Bongaerts jbongae...@gmail.comwrote: Easy now! Silent Computers has done more for ubuntu-be than most. 2012/12/20 martijn cielen mcie...@gmail.com spammer 2012/12/20 Lesia Valèri lesiaval...@gmail.com Hi, daar is de Silent computers' shop voor! Stuurt die dame naar ons toe, wij zullen wel beste oplossing voor vi -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
Martijn, there's something else too that people should be fighting in mailing lists... and that's trolls. People posting to a mailinglist without contributing to the topic, but in the contrary fueling an (off topic) discussion is considered trolling in my eyes. Secondly: (not talking about this specific situation here) No matter how rude, stupid or wrong a person is... you *never* lower yourself to that same level. This will never solve anything. As I already said... the given response was defenitely not spam. It was a reply to a question asked. It was on topic. It might not have been as well documented as I hoped it to be... but it was not at all *unsollicited* since I asked about this topic. In the worst case, one could call it a shameless plug. I know I have made publicity for events of our hackerspace in the past too... (ouch, now I'm spamming, I'm advertising our hackerspace) It's human to make mistakes... this counts for Valèri (Odds are he won't be so stupid to help anyone on the mailinglist anymore) but also for you. Be a big person, and learn from your mistakes. If you feel someone is not abiding the rules of the mailinglist (but has a good history), be polite and explain this person what mistake (s)he made. This opens a door for the (so called) offender to apologize if he agrees, or defend himself if he disagrees. Oh yeah... and on an ironic sidenote... if this were a real spammer - he would thank us for sending out a gazillion more messages with his company name in the title. Grtz, and have an excellent Christmas holiday... Jurgen. On 21-12-12 19:08, martijn cielen wrote: Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again: when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means. On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote: I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the responses that followed. If one states that he didn't *give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything* than that means he doesn't care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that offensive and take it as a slap in the face. It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him- or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words: *Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself captures the spirit of being human.* A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your words and actions. I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value. And with this rant and words that might mean more to some than others I leave you Have a nice day all, who knows it might be our last. Regards Wouter Vandenneucker 2012/12/21 Jurgen Gaeremyn jurgen.gaere...@pandora.be Well, I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only offering to make a sale. I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: I'm using *blabla* on my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing these steps: *blablabla* Or even: Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it contains drivers for ubuntu In extremis it could be: let me google this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ... Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an option, and then the shop is he place to be. Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer spammer didn't help me any further either. Grtz, Jurgen On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote: Is there a code of conduct, guidelines, on how to approach things like this? What i'm trying to say is, what if you know a good link/shop/space that can help you? What would be the appropriate action to take? Needless to say i too disagree with spamming any list, but it's something i was asking myself just yet... 2012/12/21 martijn cielen mcie...@gmail.com Jan, frankly I don't give a *** what
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
Personally, while Martijn could have weighed his words more, I too agree that this isn't much more than spam, and I too agree that it doesn't matter if silent computers has done more or less than anyone else for ubuntu-be... I get hundreds of this kind of mail in my spam box... Fact is that in the same way, one could answer: Go ask a fnack-employee, he would know how to help you any further. But that wasn't the question. Fact is that in that case much more than give preferences for any shop where you can buy smartphones, isn't delivered. Greetz, Samuel Op vrijdag 21 december 2012 19:58:02 schreef Jurgen Gaeremyn: Martijn, there's something else too that people should be fighting in mailing lists... and that's trolls. People posting to a mailinglist without contributing to the topic, but in the contrary fueling an (off topic) discussion is considered trolling in my eyes. Secondly: (not talking about this specific situation here) No matter how rude, stupid or wrong a person is... you *never* lower yourself to that same level. This will never solve anything. As I already said... the given response was defenitely not spam. It was a reply to a question asked. It was on topic. It might not have been as well documented as I hoped it to be... but it was not at all *unsollicited* since I asked about this topic. In the worst case, one could call it a shameless plug. I know I have made publicity for events of our hackerspace in the past too... (ouch, now I'm spamming, I'm advertising our hackerspace) It's human to make mistakes... this counts for Valèri (Odds are he won't be so stupid to help anyone on the mailinglist anymore) but also for you. Be a big person, and learn from your mistakes. If you feel someone is not abiding the rules of the mailinglist (but has a good history), be polite and explain this person what mistake (s)he made. This opens a door for the (so called) offender to apologize if he agrees, or defend himself if he disagrees. Oh yeah... and on an ironic sidenote... if this were a real spammer - he would thank us for sending out a gazillion more messages with his company name in the title. Grtz, and have an excellent Christmas holiday... Jurgen. On 21-12-12 19:08, martijn cielen wrote: Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again: when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means. On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote: I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the responses that followed. If one states that he didn't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything than that means he doesn't care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that offensive and take it as a slap in the face. It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him- or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words: Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself captures the spirit of being human. A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your words and actions. I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value. And with this rant and words that might mean more to some than others I leave you Have a nice day all, who knows it might be our last. Regards Wouter Vandenneucker 2012/12/21 Jurgen Gaeremyn jurgen.gaere...@pandora.be Well, I didn't consider the initial answer as spam - I did take it as a rather weak answer in the sense that there's no further help than only offering to make a sale. I was hoping to get feedback in the sense of: I'm using *blabla* on my computer and *bla* on my Android device and it all works fine doing these steps: *blablabla* Or even: Buy this device: *SomeDevice*, it contains drivers for ubuntu In extremis it could be: let me google this for you: *keyword 1* *keyword 2* ... Obviously, if the solution you're offering is something you developed in-house, and thus only offer to your customers... that's also an option, and then the shop is he place to be. Well... but as disappointing as the answer was... the answer spammer didn't help me any further either. Grtz, Jurgen On 21-12-12 13:25, tom verlinden wrote: Is there a code of conduct, guidelines, on how to approach things like this?
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Silent computers' shop staat er klaar voor!-- Re: ubuntu-be Digest, Vol 82, Issue 16
On 21-12-12 23:48, Samuel Derous wrote: Personally, while Martijn could have weighed his words more, I too agree that this isn't much more than spam, and I too agree that it doesn't matter if silent computers has done more or less than anyone else for ubuntu-be... I get hundreds of this kind of mail in my spam box... Fact is that in the same way, one could answer: Go ask a fnack-employee, he would know how to help you any further. But that wasn't the question. Fact is that in that case much more than give preferences for any shop where you can buy smartphones, isn't delivered. Greetz, Samuel Fair enough... it certainly is on the edge. But if Fnac would indeed offer support on making this work under Ubuntu... it would be a valid post for his list (we had postings from people telling Dell was going to sell Ubuntu machines, nobody complained back then). So the bottom line is that you can't blow your own horn? If somebody else would have said: Yeah, I went to Silent Computers, and they helped me out just great! It wouldn't have been spam... but if they are proud in telling themselves... it is spam? TODO: People considering spam an important issue on Ubuntu-be: write a clear code of conduct on the wiki - have it tweaked by notifying it on the mailinglist. If there's a consensus - that's great! People will stick to it, and you'll be able to refer to it. So all that's needed, is a decent wiki page on this topic. :) I won't make the effort, because I think it's no priority. I will read it though and comment on it, if I think it omits other fields (like netiquette) or starts to smell like censorship... Grtz, Jurgen. Op vrijdag 21 december 2012 19:58:02 schreef Jurgen Gaeremyn: Martijn, there's something else too that people should be fighting in mailing lists... and that's trolls. People posting to a mailinglist without contributing to the topic, but in the contrary fueling an (off topic) discussion is considered trolling in my eyes. Secondly: (not talking about this specific situation here) No matter how rude, stupid or wrong a person is... you *never* lower yourself to that same level. This will never solve anything. As I already said... the given response was defenitely not spam. It was a reply to a question asked. It was on topic. It might not have been as well documented as I hoped it to be... but it was not at all *unsollicited* since I asked about this topic. In the worst case, one could call it a shameless plug. I know I have made publicity for events of our hackerspace in the past too... (ouch, now I'm spamming, I'm advertising our hackerspace) It's human to make mistakes... this counts for Valèri (Odds are he won't be so stupid to help anyone on the mailinglist anymore) but also for you. Be a big person, and learn from your mistakes. If you feel someone is not abiding the rules of the mailinglist (but has a good history), be polite and explain this person what mistake (s)he made. This opens a door for the (so called) offender to apologize if he agrees, or defend himself if he disagrees. Oh yeah... and on an ironic sidenote... if this were a real spammer - he would thank us for sending out a gazillion more messages with his company name in the title. Grtz, and have an excellent Christmas holiday... Jurgen. On 21-12-12 19:08, martijn cielen wrote: Hold your horses Wouter. You clearly completely misunderstood my message. I do give a *** about the work any and all of you do. I thought it was obvious I was talking about spammers. To clarify again: when someone spams the ML, I don't give a *** about what they do for the community. It's spam, and spam should be fought by any means. On Friday, 21 December 2012, Wouter Vandenneucker wrote: I personally felt offended by the sheer lack of Ubuntu/humanity in the responses that followed. If one states that he didn't give a *** what anyone (corporate or individual) has done for anyone/anything than that means he doesn't care about any of the work I and others have put in to it. I find that offensive and take it as a slap in the face. It shows of a lack of empathy, dignity and respect to others who might or might not put more time and effort to things than that person him- or herself. Although I would have taken it this way regardless of whom it came from, I feel even more offended because it came from somebody who signed the code of conduct! A code that starts with following words: Ubuntu is about showing humanity to one another: the word itself captures the spirit of being human. A code that explicitly states that at all times you should be respectful. One that states that disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. One that states that you have to take responsibility for your words and actions. I find myself today, struggling to keep believing that any work done here is appreciated or even considered to be of any value. And with this rant and words that might
