Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Op zondag 04-11-2007 om 20:54 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Jan Claeys: > Op zondag 04-11-2007 om 11:41 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Christophe > Vandeplas: > > People don't want change if they like what they use. > > Right, but I get calls/questions from elderly/retired people who don't > like Microsoft OS'es, and they really love the Ubuntu philosophy... :-) > > -- > Jan Claeys > > I have seen that too and my dad really doesn't think that hehe, he sure is a stubborn donkey. Oww well, I really liked the get an old granny onto ubuntu project a friend off mine did. He prooved that Ubuntu/Linux is more intuitive then a windows OS for starters to get it on with. -- Kevin Elaerts He who likes free software, but also free beer ;) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Op zondag 04-11-2007 om 11:41 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Christophe Vandeplas: > People don't want change if they like what they use. Right, but I get calls/questions from elderly/retired people who don't like Microsoft OS'es, and they really love the Ubuntu philosophy... :-) -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Pierre Vorhagen wrote: > You are most certainly right. It is that I have never really had an occasion > to completely "convert" someone older than 30 to Linux... I don't have a lot > of experiences with elderly people willing to accept changes, so once they're > actually used to an OS and have their little habits. Last time I accidentally > changed something, the welcome screen in Windows XP, the person called me all > panicked and insisted on having it back as it was... Don't even speak of > changing the OS :-) Yet now that I think about it, I should try and take the > time to explain Linux calmly to him... That's usually the _very difficult_ part. The easiest is to let them try it before they are accustomed to something else (being Mac, Windows, BSD ... ) People don't want change if they like what they use. If they bother about what they use, then there is a chance of 'selling' our thing. Because *they asked for change* . -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://christophe.vandeplas.com -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Kevin Elaerts a écrit : > The best example I have seen off people getting interested in Ubuntu, > was an 70 year old retiered lady, who just bought her very first pc, > second hand and without an OS. > The grandson comes to her house and brought with him, indeed an Ubuntu > disk, granny got interested and she even completed the installation off > Ubuntu herselve, okey not that hard, but then she directly moved on to > get stuff done on the computer and her very first OS ever, now she can > even work herselve around in the filesystem, she can install software > herselve and she is wild about her blazingfast computer. > Need I tell you people any more, the persons we need to target are those > who are willing to learn and that willingness should by no means be > delimited to students or youngsters or young adults or even just adults. > As long as they want to learn and want to face that it is different than > other systems and want to change the way they work, or even want to > discover it themselves, then we can get happy users, who will spread the > word about Ubuntu or Linux in general. > That is what we need to do, that is who we need to target. > You are most certainly right. It is that I have never really had an occasion to completely "convert" someone older than 30 to Linux... I don't have a lot of experiences with elderly people willing to accept changes, so once they're actually used to an OS and have their little habits. Last time I accidentally changed something, the welcome screen in Windows XP, the person called me all panicked and insisted on having it back as it was... Don't even speak of changing the OS :-) Yet now that I think about it, I should try and take the time to explain Linux calmly to him... Pierre -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Op dinsdag 30-10-2007 om 14:45 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Jan Claeys: > Op maandag 29-10-2007 om 20:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Pierre > Vorhagen: > > You see, it is maybe (probably), an error from my side, but I tend to > > think that the first "targets" should be students. For many reasons, > > but mainly because they are in general more quickly OK with trying out > > something new. > > Actually, judging from the response we get at the MicroMegaMarket fairs, > the type of visitors we get at the linuxbabbel events (which hosted the > URP in Roeselare) and the people & organisations that have asked me to > talk about Ubuntu and/or help with installs, I get the impression that > most of the people are actually *not* students. > > Most students in "technical" courses know how to install Ubuntu > themselves, and most of them probably heard about linux and/or unix > already. Now, unfortunately, most of the other students need Windows > because professors simple force them to use it (often citing ridiculous > reasons for that requirement). > > One thing I have found is that people who don't have a lot of experience > with computers need help to install Ubuntu, probably some time to adapt > to it, support from other people adapted to their experience (_not_ > "open a terminal and enter ..."), etc. Of course, this is not really > surprising... > > So: (also) try to get outside of the academic and IT "inside circle". > > Try to get linux/Ubuntu into "ordinary" people's home. Try to get them > out of their home to gather with other linux users. Make sure they > don't feel alienated at linux user gatherings. > > > (I hope this doesn't sound too much like some preaching... ;-) ) > > > -- > Jan Claeys > > The best example I have seen off people getting interested in Ubuntu, was an 70 year old retiered lady, who just bought her very first pc, second hand and without an OS. The grandson comes to her house and brought with him, indeed an Ubuntu disk, granny got interested and she even completed the installation off Ubuntu herselve, okey not that hard, but then she directly moved on to get stuff done on the computer and her very first OS ever, now she can even work herselve around in the filesystem, she can install software herselve and she is wild about her blazingfast computer. Need I tell you people any more, the persons we need to target are those who are willing to learn and that willingness should by no means be delimited to students or youngsters or young adults or even just adults. As long as they want to learn and want to face that it is different than other systems and want to change the way they work, or even want to discover it themselves, then we can get happy users, who will spread the word about Ubuntu or Linux in general. That is what we need to do, that is who we need to target. -- Kevin Elaerts He who likes free software, but also free beer ;) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Op maandag 29-10-2007 om 20:58 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Pierre Vorhagen: > You see, it is maybe (probably), an error from my side, but I tend to > think that the first "targets" should be students. For many reasons, > but mainly because they are in general more quickly OK with trying out > something new. Actually, judging from the response we get at the MicroMegaMarket fairs, the type of visitors we get at the linuxbabbel events (which hosted the URP in Roeselare) and the people & organisations that have asked me to talk about Ubuntu and/or help with installs, I get the impression that most of the people are actually *not* students. Most students in "technical" courses know how to install Ubuntu themselves, and most of them probably heard about linux and/or unix already. Now, unfortunately, most of the other students need Windows because professors simple force them to use it (often citing ridiculous reasons for that requirement). One thing I have found is that people who don't have a lot of experience with computers need help to install Ubuntu, probably some time to adapt to it, support from other people adapted to their experience (_not_ "open a terminal and enter ..."), etc. Of course, this is not really surprising... So: (also) try to get outside of the academic and IT "inside circle". Try to get linux/Ubuntu into "ordinary" people's home. Try to get them out of their home to gather with other linux users. Make sure they don't feel alienated at linux user gatherings. (I hope this doesn't sound too much like some preaching... ;-) ) -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Hi, I'm not blaming LiLiT for anything, be sure of that. I'm not blaming anyone and I'm confused when I see that it was taken like this... (OK, I do blame N-Hitec a wee bit, but they had a lot of difficulties so it's no problem, they are forgiven :-) When I talked of LiLit "dying out", I meant the "cercle d'étudiant" part... I was only reflecting the reaction of two 19 year old students, passionated about Linux and free software, willing to get active and thinking they would meet other motivated young people... (I'm not saying that LiLiT is not motivated!) When I was talking about the lack of structure, I wasn't talking about internal LiLiT structure, but about "something central" regarding students and linux... (that is why I talked about the "engineers", meaning the engineer students of ULg... sorry for not having explained who I really meant!) You see, it is maybe (probably), an error from my side, but I tend to think that the first "targets" should be students. For many reasons, but mainly because they are in general more quickly OK with trying out something new. That is why (in this optic and only in this optic, don't get me wrong) I put ubuntu-be, LiLiT and anything else, more or less in the same pot, and why I said that the LUG is "dying out" and that there is nothing central... and I think that it should be said that this is not exclusively my opinion, but we actually talked about this with 4 other students. Now i know that it is easy to say these things, and that they do sound pretty much like critics, but it's not a critic... it's simply a students (shared) point of view on the situation of Linux organizations in Liège, I can only judge by what I (we) see of Linux at Uni and in School, or in the places we go. That's why I think that handing out flyers in front of the station was a great action, even if its range and effect can't be directly identified. Please don't take bad what I said, maybe I was a bit too direct. As a matter of fact, my mail had a constructive goal. We still have to see if we find some more very interested students, then we'll decide how we organize ourselves... Good evening, Pierre snulkid a écrit :(I kept most of Pierre's message for LiLiT commitee members in CC, so > sorry for the long email but don't worry : after that, I'm starting > to hibernate ;-) > > Le lundi 29 octobre 2007 13:28, Pierre Vorhagen a écrit : > >>> (...) the "Liege branch" of ubuntu-be has a problem... >>> >> Yes, the Liège branch has a problem I'd say... in so far that there >> are not enough (are there any?) people actually *from* Liège >> (...) snulkid (you consider yourself part of ubuntu-be? >> > > No > > >> The problem is, I think, that there is nothing central... the LUG >> is dying out, or at least not so very active I understood (on the >> internet site it is still written that the next LMP is the 4th of >> October... we wanted maybe to come again with Yorrit), there are >> other organizations that are all more or less trying to do their >> thing (like Bawet or N-Hitec (the engineers tend to install Linux >> on their machines by themselves, without even knowing that Lilit or >> ubuntu-be exist)) and then there is ubuntu-be, that is not really >> very active, and probably rather non-existent... >> >> As the most active group is still LiLiT, maybe start off from >> there. It is what we had in mind with Yorrit... getting more >> students to LiLiT, based on Ubuntu of course. We were pretty >> surprised to see that the average age was about 20 years more than >> ours, considering that LiLiT is an official student "circle"... We >> will come to the next LMP, don't know when, and I propose that we >> discuss this then, with all Liège located ubuntu-be members and >> LiLiT... Else, if a closer collaboration is not really wished or >> possible, all ubuntu-be members can meet in a café somewhere in >> Liège (the Shamrock on top off Rue St Gilles for example, that guy >> is on Xubuntu and Ubuntu and also regretted that there isn't more >> activity on Liège.). >> I don't really care how we do this (if it is with LiLiT, fine for >> me), but if we had some active people that actually are from Liège >> and live there, it would still be possible to have an active >> ubuntu-be branch. >> > > Pierre, I'm quite confused that an opinion about ubuntu-be leads to > comments about LiLiT (and Bawet) but, to make things clear, here are > a few points : > > * first a personal one : for "internal" reasons I will not comment, > I'm currently leaving the LiLiT commitee, and will probably also stop > most of my FLOSS-related activities (so, Mark, sorry but I won't > attend your winter meeting..). > I also won't attend this week LiLiT "Linux Meeting Party" but anybody > is welcome, of course : > http://www.lilit.be/index.php?page=contact#LMP > > * LiLiT website was just out of date. I just updated it. > LiLiT is certainly not "dying out", at least compared to mo
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
(I kept most of Pierre's message for LiLiT commitee members in CC, so sorry for the long email but don't worry : after that, I'm starting to hibernate ;-) Le lundi 29 octobre 2007 13:28, Pierre Vorhagen a écrit : > > (...) the "Liege branch" of ubuntu-be has a problem... > Yes, the Liège branch has a problem I'd say... in so far that there > are not enough (are there any?) people actually *from* Liège > (...) snulkid (you consider yourself part of ubuntu-be? No > The problem is, I think, that there is nothing central... the LUG > is dying out, or at least not so very active I understood (on the > internet site it is still written that the next LMP is the 4th of > October... we wanted maybe to come again with Yorrit), there are > other organizations that are all more or less trying to do their > thing (like Bawet or N-Hitec (the engineers tend to install Linux > on their machines by themselves, without even knowing that Lilit or > ubuntu-be exist)) and then there is ubuntu-be, that is not really > very active, and probably rather non-existent... > > As the most active group is still LiLiT, maybe start off from > there. It is what we had in mind with Yorrit... getting more > students to LiLiT, based on Ubuntu of course. We were pretty > surprised to see that the average age was about 20 years more than > ours, considering that LiLiT is an official student "circle"... We > will come to the next LMP, don't know when, and I propose that we > discuss this then, with all Liège located ubuntu-be members and > LiLiT... Else, if a closer collaboration is not really wished or > possible, all ubuntu-be members can meet in a café somewhere in > Liège (the Shamrock on top off Rue St Gilles for example, that guy > is on Xubuntu and Ubuntu and also regretted that there isn't more > activity on Liège.). > I don't really care how we do this (if it is with LiLiT, fine for > me), but if we had some active people that actually are from Liège > and live there, it would still be possible to have an active > ubuntu-be branch. Pierre, I'm quite confused that an opinion about ubuntu-be leads to comments about LiLiT (and Bawet) but, to make things clear, here are a few points : * first a personal one : for "internal" reasons I will not comment, I'm currently leaving the LiLiT commitee, and will probably also stop most of my FLOSS-related activities (so, Mark, sorry but I won't attend your winter meeting..). I also won't attend this week LiLiT "Linux Meeting Party" but anybody is welcome, of course : http://www.lilit.be/index.php?page=contact#LMP * LiLiT website was just out of date. I just updated it. LiLiT is certainly not "dying out", at least compared to most other LUGs, and even if they currently lack people, Bawet is regurlarly organising LIPs, in alternance with LiLiT (who will maybe organise another one before end of 2007). Just have a look at our "old news" : http://www.lilit.be/index.php?page=archives activity reports : http://www.lilit.be/wiki/index.php?header=full&page=PvAgOr050420#Annexe1%3Arapportdactivit%E9s2004 http://www.lilit.be/wiki/index.php?header=full&page=PvAgOr060308#Annexe1%3Arapportdactivit%E9s2005 http://www.lilit.be/wiki/index.php?header=full&page=PvAgOr070308#Annexe1%3Arapportdactivit%E9s2006 and our (rather incomplete) photo galleries to get an idea of what we did. * about the canceled Ubuntu/N-Hitec Party : if someone is to be blamed on the LiLiT side, this is me because I should have re-contacted Laurent earlier (we met at LiLiT LIP on July 7th) and be more careful about the LIP : it surreptitiously moved from a "N-Hitec LIP with LiLiT support" to a "LiLiT-in-charge-of-it LIP". On October 18th, LiLiT had a meeting, where people said once again there were unavailable on a working day; our president also inform Laurent had set an appointment with him next Monday. This was just before Laurent canceled the event. So, you can blame N-Hitec, ubuntu-be local members, maybe the ULg bureaucracy, maybe me, but not LiLiT. * it has always been clear that LiLiT (or Bawet) is not going to give support to "engineers" or other professionals : we cannot do that (not even invoice something), given our statutes. N-Hitec can, I guess. * LiLiT is an ULg circle for historical reasons. Right now, among our 26 members, we have 2 ULg students and 3 ULg workers. We would be glad you "get us more students", even "based on Ubuntu of course" (we are "distro-neutral"). But first, LiLiT is not involved in (or part of) ubuntu-be and second, we made several attemps in the past years (October 25th would have been a new one) to target the students without any real success. We also had contacts with other circles (Fédé staff, AEES). So, any collaboration can be discussed with the LiLiT committee (g-traxx mentioned a "school-related" action...) but don't expect an overwhelming enthousiasm after so many trials. * LiLiT is well structured (see http://www.lilit.be/index.php?page=asbl). When dealing
Re: [Ubuntu-be] GRP in Liege
Hello, snulkid a écrit : > Conclusions : > * obviously, the "Train Action" advertising was unefficient, maybe > because you cannot get students on Saturday, as Laurent Sibilla said. > I wouldn't say that. It was less efficient than we hoped, as it didn't bring people to the LIP... but then again we tried to only hand the flyers out to students, and we must not forget that they were all students that take the train to come to Liège à Sunday evening (so that aren't in town during the Weekend). I don't think that the absence at an install party on a Saturday shows that there is a lack of interest. > * compared to what has been reported here about other GRP > (congratulations to Hasselt people!!), the "Liege branch" of > ubuntu-be has a problem... (or is it just my feeling? Anyway, I don't > feel concerned anymore). Yes, the Liège branch has a problem I'd say... in so far that there are not enough (are there any?) people actually *from* Liège... We are 2 students in 1st Bachelor, but never in Liège during the Weekend, snulkid (you consider yourself part of ubuntu-be? Because you said there was "nobody from ubuntu-be at the GRP), not from Liège actually, and I think orbitalfunky can be counted he as member of the "Liège branch", but not from there either... I think Benoît Plunus is in Liège also, but not a lot of time I understand... Anyone else? :/ The problem is, I think, that there is nothing central... the LUG is dying out, or at least not so very active I understood (on the internet site it is still written that the next LMP is the 4th of October... we wanted maybe to come again with Yorrit), there are other organizations that are all more or less trying to do their thing (like Bawet or N-Hitec (the engineers tend to install Linux on their machines by themselves, without even knowing that Lilit or ubuntu-be exist)) and then there is ubuntu-be, that is not really very active, and probably rather non-existent... As the most active group is still LiLiT, maybe start off from there. It is what we had in mind with Yorrit... getting more students to LiLiT, based on Ubuntu of course. We were pretty surprised to see that the average age was about 20 years more than ours, considering that LiLiT is an official student "circle"... We will come to the next LMP, don't know when, and I propose that we discuss this then, with all Liège located ubuntu-be members and LiLiT... Else, if a closer collaboration is not really wished or possible, all ubuntu-be members can meet in a café somewhere in Liège (the Shamrock on top off Rue St Gilles for example, that guy is on Xubuntu and Ubuntu and also regretted that there isn't more activity on Liège.). I don't really care how we do this (if it is with LiLiT, fine for me), but if we had some active people that actually are from Liège and live there, it would still be possible to have an active ubuntu-be branch. Pierre -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com You can find list info and your subscription configuration options at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
