[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Paolo Montrasio]

I just noticed this after upgrading from 12.04 to 16.04.

I have to expand every single item in the list to know what it's going
to install and it costs me time. Definitely a regression. I'd love a
setting, even in dconf-editor, to keep the list fully expanded.

Another annoyance is that there is no way to keep the Details panel open
across successive runs of the updater. Again, any kind of setting that
would keep it open is welcome.

A note about that panel. Given that recent screens reduced the available
vertical space, how about placing the Details panel to the right of the
list of the updates? That would give more space to read them.

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  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided => Low

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

So, we agree on everything except the meaning of the word "only" in
3.4.1. To be fair, this is obviously unclear to many packagers too:
while many include the actual name in the synopsis (for example in gcc,
emacs, and libstdc*), many others avoid it (for example in f-spot,
squirrelmail, and strace).

It is true that for some low-level and command-line packages the actual
name is identical to the package name, lower-case and all: for example,
libcanberra, cdparanoia, and gksu. However, I posit that in real-world
updates, most of those cases are contained inside "Ubuntu base" and
therefore hidden by default anyway -- especially so once bug 1166230 is
fixed.

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Title:
  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Yuri Khan]

OK, there are three pieces of information that is present in all
packages: the package name, the description synopsis, and the extended
description, and there are restrictions on how they interact. (Not
actually restrictions as in MUST NOT in the RFC 2119 sense, but a strong
SHOULD NOT). The Policy does not talk about the actual name.

3.1: The package name must be unique.

3.4: The description as a whole must be descriptive. (Duh.)

The description synopsis should contain the most important information
for such cases when the extended synopsis is not displayed, such as the
“apt-cache search” output, one line per package.

3.4.1: The description synopsis should not be redundant when displayed
along with the package name. I interpret the “Remember that in many
situations the user may only see the synopsis line - make it as
informative as you can” part as “the synopsis line must be reasonably
descriptive in absence of the extended description”, not as “the
synopsis line can be displayed without the package name in sight”.

3.4.2: The extended description is not a continuation of the synopsis;
it needs to stand on its own. Presumably, it is displayed in a separate
pane or as a separate text section. Also presumably, getting the
extended description requires some user effort.


For the Update Manager, I think we can agree the extended description is mostly 
irrelevant: it makes no sense to display it for all packages. Its place is in 
the details pane, along with the relevant changelog excerpt.

The question is about the package name and the description synopsis. You
defend the position that the description synopsis is sufficient.

However, the synopsis cannot contain the package name, by 3.4.1. And
many packages have actual name as the package name, so, in general, the
synopsis will not contain the actual name. It follows that, until and
unless a new field containing the actual name is added, we need the
package name displayed at all times, because it’s the closest that we
have.

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

Just as you have confused the package name with the actual name, you
also seem to be confusing the synopsis with the description as a whole.
You claim that a package description is "the phrase with which a package
introduces itself", with an implicit "I am a/an" in front of it.
Presumably you meant the synopsis, not the whole description; but
regardless, I see no evidence for that anthropomorphism.

You also claim that "the description extends on the package name and
does not (and need not) make sense without it". But that is directly
contradicted by the policy: "in many situations the user may only see
the synopsis line - make it as informative as you can". That is
precisely the case here: the synopsis is all Software Updater shows by
default.

Now, if Debian policy prohibited (1) the package name from being the
actual name (as it often does), (2) the synopsis from including anything
similar to the package name, and (3) any separate standard field from
containing the actual name, then the policy would be perverse. The only
way for the software's real name to appear in a software listing would
be to ensure that the package name was substantially different from the
real name, just so that the real name could be included in the synopsis!
To return to the Bazaar example, the Bazaar package could have the
synopsis "Bazaar version control system" if its package name was "bzr",
but not if its package name was "bazaar".

Fortunately it's not the policy being perverse, just lintian. The
synopsis aready does include the actual name in the X.Org X WIndow
System and JACK Audio Connection Kit examples I gave.

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Yuri Khan]

I will quote once more from the Policy. 3.4, The description of a
package:

> The description should describe the package (the program) to a user
> (system administrator) who has never met it before so that they have
> enough information to decide whether they want to install it.

In other words, it’s the phrase with which a package introduces itself:
“Hi! I’m [firefox], a [Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla].” “Hello!
My name is [bzr], I am an [easy to use distributed version control
system]”. Note how the description extends on the package name and does
not (and need not) make sense without it.

When I installed Ubuntu for the first time, I knew no preinstalled
packages by name and it might be convenient if they introduced
themselves at first, second, maybe fifth update. Now that I’ve been
using Ubuntu for 6 years straight, it’s getting silly.

If you want to argue that bzr should be named bazaar, no problem. File a
bug against bzr, so that it be renamed and bzr made a transitional dummy
package.

But please do not ask that bzr be *described* as “Bazaar”: this
description says nothing to help me decide if I want it.

The solution is not to put program titles into the description, it is to
show package names *along with* the description.

BTW lintian complains not only at package name included literally in the
synopsis line, but also with minor changes, e.g. in letter case. So e.g.
putting the word “Firefox” in the synopsis won’t fly.

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  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

I didn't say the package name, I said the actual name. bzr vs. Bazaar.
gnome-control-center vs. System Settings. xorg vs. X.Org X Window
System. jackd vs. JACK Audio Connection Kit. In many cases the package
name and actual name are similar, but that same Debian policy prohibits
them from being identical.

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Yuri Khan]

> The most practical place to put the actual name is in the synopsis,
which is what Software Updater shows by default.

No, because that would violate Debian Policy, item 3.4.1 The single line
synopsis[1]:

> Do not include the package name in the synopsis line. The display
software knows how to display this already, and you do not need to state
it.

[1]: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s-synopsis

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  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

Michael Terry and myself may share initials, but I'm the one to blame
for the design. ;-)

Containers get blamed for their contents. When we introduced Notify OSD,
people reported bugs against it about apps that had always sent too many
notifications. Gradually the apps were fixed. And when we introduced
Ubuntu Software Center, people reported bugs against it about packages
that had always been in the wrong category. Gradually the packages were
fixed.

Now with Software Updater, people complain about packages that have poor
synopses. Yes, and they always did. The example of Bazaar is a
particularly flagrant one: the name of the software is not "easy to use
distributed version control system", and it is not "bzr" (though that is
the terminal command), it is "Bazaar". 
The package is just wrong.

As long as package names can't contain spaces or capital letters, they
often won't be the actual name of the software. The most practical place
to put the actual name is in the synopsis, which is what Software
Updater shows by default.

I agree it would be nifty to have an optional column showing the package
name, as well as an optional column showing the version number. These
would probably be toggled from the View menu.

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)

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  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Jethro Beekman]

Here is a post from the designer of this "improvement":
http://mterry.name/log/2013/01/22/software-updater-changes-in-ubuntu-13-04/

The screenshots really say it all. Would you rather be notified that an
"easy to use distributed version control system" is being updated or
that "bzr" is being updated?

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Ben Cordes]

Strongly agree that I would like to be able to pick which columns are
displayed on this screen.

** Attachment added: "sample screenshot of useless information"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1180899/+attachment/3771191/+files/gnome-update-manager.png

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  Update list hides important details

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users.

** Changed in: update-manager (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => Confirmed

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[Bug 1180899] Re: Update list hides important details

[Dmitry Kann]

I really hate the way UpdateManager displays updates now.

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