[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
mirabilos, I wonder if you might be willing to please put some shell function like this into the dot.mkshrc in upstream mksh CVS? I’m not. It seems to me a fairly uncontroversial change. No. As I said, “help” is very generic, and I know of distros aliasing it to “man” or “man man”. (SuSE 6.1 did that, for example.) Also, generic names are… problematic. I’ve learned my lesson from when I added a “rename” builtin. Then, next time you push the latest mksh version into Android gerrit, perhaps you could include this change as part of the broader changelist. Android mkshrc is independent of mksh/dot.mkshrc and completely separately maintained. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
Jason requested an explicit answer to
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/comments/9 and here it is:
The idea is ok, but you’ll have to take this up with the Android
developers yourself and submit it to AOSP using their Gerrit instance.
That’s all I ever do, too.
I could imagine an implementation like this:
function help {
cat EOF
This is mksh, the MirBSD Korn Shell - $KSH_VERSION
You can use a shell to perform advanced administrative and troubleshooting
tasks. A Unix shell is also a scripting language good for little programs.
On Android, you can also use it to capture screenshots and screencasts.
To work with files and directories:
See http://www.cs.bu.edu/teaching/unix/reference/commands.html.
To work with Android logs, packages, databases, screencasts, and the like:
See http://developer.android.com/tools/help/adb.html#shellcommands.
To view the mksh homepage and manpage:
Please visit http://www.mirbsd.org/mksh.htm.
If you have a question, comment, bug report, or suggestion:
On Android: Please visit http://android.stackexchange.com/.
On other systems: Please visit http://unix.stackexchange.com/.
EOF
}
This would in-situ replace the shell version, even easier than to ask
the user to echo $KSH_VERSION themselves. I also used an http link, to
save bandwidth (the other homepage link redirects to https). I also
added a bit about scripting.
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mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached
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[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
mirabilos, I wonder if you might be willing to please put some shell
function like this into the dot.mkshrc in upstream mksh CVS? It seems
to me a fairly uncontroversial change. Then, next time you push the
latest mksh version into Android gerrit, perhaps you could include this
change as part of the broader changelist.
Plus, then perhaps MirBSD mksh and Android mksh could end up shipping
similar or identical help shell functions in their respective
dot.mkshrc files.
function help {
cat EOT
This is mksh, the MirBSD Korn Shell.
Version: $KSH_VERSION
You can use a shell to perform advanced administrative and troubleshooting
tasks, or as a programming language for writing small programs.
On Android, you can also use a shell to capture screenshots and screencasts.
To work with files and directories:
See http://www.cs.bu.edu/teaching/unix/reference/commands.html.
To work with Android logs, packages, databases, screencasts, and the like:
See http://developer.android.com/tools/help/adb.html#shellcommands.
To view the mksh homepage and manpage:
Please visit http://www.mirbsd.org/mksh.htm.
If you have a question, comment, bug report, or suggestion:
On Android: Please visit http://android.stackexchange.com/.
On other systems: Please visit http://unix.stackexchange.com/.
EOT
}
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mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached
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Re: here documents with mksh on Android (was Re: [Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen)
enh dixit: probably related to https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=66815. i think the Right, similar issue. hard part is what to set $TMPDIR to. Agreed. If I get a C API I can just call, I would put it into main.c in mksh (set TMPDIR to that value, unless we import it from the environment already). Otherwise, something should ensure that $TMPDIR is set whenever mksh is called. Since the shell can be called various ways (during boot, adb, from a local application), this is pretty complicated; I’d suggest adding code to bionic which I can call might be easier. the AOSP x86 emulator is pretty fast, as long as you have hardware that lets you use kvm. just don't forget to supply the flag so the emulator takes advantage of it! Hrm. I’ll have to see if linux-kvm works inside a linux-kvm VM. IIRC, this works with AMD CPUs. What is the “magic invocation” to build for that, instead of for emulator (which I used to be as close to upstream as possible)? bye, //mirabilos -- Yes, I hate users and I want them to suffer. -- Marco d'Itri on gmane.linux.debian.devel.general -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
** Bug watch added: code.google.com/p/android/issues #66815 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=66815 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
In various comments, Thorsten Glaser wrote: This is actually a good idea. Thank you :) Maybe they should tag those questions [mksh] on SE and I should subscribe that tag there. A lot of the people who type help might not actually have questions about mksh: they may instead have questions about how to use head, tail, grep, logcat, or other tools. People who have questions about mksh, and who are SE-savvy, can figure out how to tag the questions [mksh] themselves. And even poorly-tagged questions can be retagged later. Also, it's hard to advise users how to tag their questions inside a small Help screen, especially if some of them have never used SE before. And, if we provide tagging instructions, it may make SE sound like a scary and restrictive place. “help” is aliased to “man” in most beginner-friendly GNU/Linux distributions, in /etc/profile usually. Really? Which distros? The man command on a line by itself, without specifying a desired manpage, is quite useless for a total newbie. man ls is obscure, and man cat is useless. man intro, which ships with many Linux distributions, is pretty useful for newbies, though the initial DESCRIPTION section at the top is obscure and may make them give up reading early on. (You can view man intro online at http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/intro.1.html.) But Android doesn't ship a man command. I’m not going to embed long texts like this in the binary. The embedded customers (Android, OpenWrt, FreeWRT, OpenADK, etc.) would not like that size increase. Might you be willing to please embed the text in a function in http://www.mirbsd.org/cvs.cgi/src/bin/mksh/dot.mkshrc?rev=HEAD instead of in the mksh binary? If there exists even one embedded customer who is unhappy with the size increase, they can simply cut it out of their distribution. I suspect, though, that nobody will mind. Anyway, you're better at shell scripting than me. :) Also, a link to the mksh docs may be appropriate. How's this? --- start of help --- mksh R50b This is mksh, the MirBSD Korn Shell. You can use a shell to perform advanced administrative and troubleshooting tasks. On Android, you can also use it to capture screenshots and screencasts. To work with files and directories: See http://www.cs.bu.edu/teaching/unix/reference/commands.html. To work with Android logs, packages, databases, screencasts, and the like: See http://developer.android.com/tools/help/adb.html#shellcommands. To view the mksh homepage and manpage: Please visit http://mirbsd.de/mksh. To find out which version of mksh you are using: Enter this command: ( echo $KSH_VERSION ) If you have a question, comment, bug report, or suggestion: On Android: Please visit http://android.stackexchange.com/. On other systems: Please visit http://unix.stackexchange.com/. --- end of help --- -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
By the way, do here-documents work okay on modern versions of Android? Or is there no place for mksh to write the required temporary files to make them work? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
here documents with mksh on Android (was Re: [Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen)
Jason Spiro dixit: By the way, do here-documents work okay on modern versions of Android? Or is there no place for mksh to write the required temporary files to make them work? There is still no place. If you set (not even needed to export, but exporting is better so subshells inherit it) $TMPDIR, it works. If you are root, it works (I think). The AOSP people sorta-promised me either to set $TMPDIR in the launcher, or to give me an API I can use to query a directory which is writable for the current user (home directory, most likely). I have not received either, yet. You may want to prod them. As I do not use an Android device myself, things are slow from my side. bye, //mirabilos -- Why don't you use JavaScript? I also don't like enabling JavaScript in Because I use lynx as browser. +1 -- Octavio Alvarez, me and ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕ (Mario Lang) on debian-devel -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
Jason Spiro dixit: If I sent a patch which would add this functionality, would you consider accepting it? No. Nothing against your intent, or beginners, or something, but Android is really not the OS one should be learning a Unix shell in. And mksh is first and foremost a Berkeley Unix shell. bye, //mirabilos -- 21:41⎜«Tonnerre:#nosec» Do at least one thing every day which makes ⎜inspirational quotes lovers sad -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
Nothing against your intent, or beginners, or something, but Android is really not the OS one should be learning a Unix shell in. You are correct. Still, if someone owns only a Windows box and an Android phone, they might end up starting their learning on Android anyway. And mksh is first and foremost a Berkeley Unix shell. Fine. But today, I noticed that you also maintain the stock Android mkshrc[*]. :) ^ [*]. https://android.googlesource.com/platform/external/mksh/+/master/mkshrc mksh takes up more than 100 KB, and typical new Android phones seem to include gigabytes of flash memory. I still believe Android could afford the bytes it would cost to include a help function in /system/bin/mkshrc which would display something like the following. --- start of help --- This is mksh, the MirBSD Korn Shell. You can use a shell to perform advanced administrative and troubleshooting tasks on your device. You can also use it to capture screenshots and screencasts. To work with files and directories: See http://www.cs.bu.edu/teaching/unix/reference/commands.html. To work with Android logs, packages, databases, screencasts, and the like: See http://developer.android.com/tools/help/adb.html#shellcommands. If you have a question, comment, bug report, or suggestion: Please visit http://android.stackexchange.com/. --- end of help --- This would help new mksh users realize how many things they truly can do in an Android shell. For example, they might have had no idea that they could capture screenshots and screencasts using the command line; but a help message can inform them. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
Jason Spiro dixit: mksh takes up more than 100 KB, and typical new Android phones seem to include gigabytes of flash memory. I still believe Android could afford the bytes it would cost to include a help function in /system/bin/mkshrc which would display something like the following. This is actually a good idea. Please submit this directly to AOSP through their Gerrit system. If you have a question, comment, bug report, or suggestion: Please visit http://android.stackexchange.com/. Not bad, but maybe they should tag those questions [mksh] on SE and I should subscribe that tag there. Also, a link to the mksh docs may be appropriate. This would help new mksh users realize how many things they truly can do in an Android shell. For example, they might have had no idea that they could capture screenshots and screencasts using the command line; but a help message can inform them. Agreed. While I “maintain” mksh in AOSP too (every once in a while, when I can build it), I’m also just submitting things there, so please submit yours, add enh and me as reviewers, and I can +1 it. bye, //mirabilos PS: Thanks for the effort! -- Yay for having to rewrite other people's Bash scripts because bash suddenly stopped supporting the bash extensions they make use of -- Tonnerre Lombard in #nosec -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
In comment #4, Thorsten Glaser wrote: “help” is aliased to “man” in most beginner-friendly GNU/Linux distributions, in /etc/profile usually. Not in beginner-unfriendly environments, such as the Android command- line environment. By responding to the word help with the 50 bytes of text I suggested, mksh could make unfriendly environments a little bit more friendly. If I sent a patch which would add this functionality, would you consider accepting it? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
Jason Spiro dixit: If the user runs mksh -? This expands to a file in the current directory that begins with - and has another byte after it. mksh /? This expands to a single-byte file (or directory) under / mksh -v This is already used by POSIX, see “man mksh”, under the “set” builtin. mksh -h, Same here. mksh -V mksh -H These are in POSIX namespace, so we cannot really give them out. mksh /h This tells mksh to run the script called “h” in the root directory. or if the user enters the single word help at a shell prompt “help” is aliased to “man” in most beginner-friendly GNU/Linux distributions, in /etc/profile usually. -- then perhaps mksh could echo: No, it will not. mksh R50b+cvs There is no such thing anyway… mksh just knows about its $KSH_VERSION, and releases are a convenience (and a point of testing). Then, if applicable, treat the -v or -V or -h or -H or /h as POSIX/SUSv4 require. So, don't terminate; instead, show the shell Ugh. No! And I say that any Android user absolutely needing to know the shell version is able to run the “set” command. bye, //mirabilos -- „Cool, /usr/share/doc/mksh/examples/uhr.gz ist ja ein Grund, mksh auf jedem System zu installieren.“ -- XTaran auf der OpenRheinRuhr, ganz begeistert (EN: “[…]uhr.gz is a reason to install mksh on every system.”) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
No. • GNU --long-options have nothing to do with a Unix program. • A flag to display the version is not historically customary in Unix programs. The adoption of -V (not -v which is verbose) is recent and not normally used. • “mksh -x” is the same as running “set -x” in the shell, which means that the namespace for these options is defined by, mostly, POSIX/SUSv4, on which we will not infringe for something like that. The Android user would just type “set“, or “echo $KSH_VERSION”. The Debian or *buntu user would just type “dpkg-query -W mksh” or (more common but cuts off version numbers) “dpkg -l mksh”. ** Changed in: mksh Status: New = Opinion ** Changed in: mksh (Ubuntu) Status: New = Opinion ** Changed in: mksh (Debian) Status: New = Opinion -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
(And I’m not going to embed long texts like this in the binary. The embedded customers (Android, OpenWrt, FreeWRT, OpenADK, etc.) would not like that size increase.) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
A flag to display the version is not historically customary in Unix programs. The adoption of -V (not -v which is verbose) is recent and not normally used. I stand corrected. GNU --long-options have nothing to do with a Unix program. Touché. The Android user would just type “set“, or “echo $KSH_VERSION”. Not all Android users are so good with Unix that they know they should do that. status: New → Opinion Hmmm. How about this? If the user runs mksh -?, mksh /?, mksh -v, mksh -V, mksh -h, mksh -H, or mksh /h -- or if the user enters the single word help at a shell prompt -- then perhaps mksh could echo: --- cut here --- mksh R50b+cvs For help: http://mirbsd.de/mksh. --- cut here --- Then, if applicable, treat the -v or -V or -h or -H or /h as POSIX/SUSv4 require. So, don't terminate; instead, show the shell prompt and proceed as if the user had entered a set command. Or, look for an executable file in the root directory named /h, try to launch it, and if it wasn't found, inform the user. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1366451] Re: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen
** Summary changed: - mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen + mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen ** Also affects: mksh (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New ** Also affects: mksh (Debian) Importance: Undecided Status: New -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1366451 Title: mksh -v should display mksh's version number, plus the attached chunk of text, onscreen To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mksh/+bug/1366451/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
