[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Talk about zombies! This report is so old I couldn't even realize I was the one who created it in the first place, until I read that information above the comments. I've now took the time to read all the comments again. @Chris Billington: I really don't know what kind of drugs I was on when I wrote my comments here, but now I wish I never wrote most of that shit. Sebastien was absolutely right, this is not the place to discuss such feature requests. At that time I used to use Ubuntu, and I recall I was quite fed up with Gnome user experience. I can only guess I used the wrong tool to let off steam. Ubuntu provided me with the right tool shortly after when it switched to Unity, which led me to switch back to Debian... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 Title: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/326582/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
On major problem with this search order is that it conflicts with the order of files in Nautilius in the non-search view. In my home folder I have 'thesis' and 'tmp' subfolders, and they are shown in that order. I type 't' expecting 'thesis' to be the first result so that I can hit enter and navigate to the 'thesis' folder. However 'tmp' comes up first because Nautilus's search view is sorting by length before aphabetically, or something (not sure what the exact algorithm is). This is one of the behaviours preventing the new search interface from being used for keyboard navigation as a replacement for the removed typeahead functionality. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 Title: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/326582/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
A good example of the need to sort alphabetically, and not numerically. I store a lot of bank statements in a folder. They have names like this: 20090215_monthly_statement.pdf 200903_first_quarter_summary.pdf 20090315_monthly_statement.pdf 20090415_monthly_statement.pdf 20090515_monthly_statement.pdf 200906_second_quarter_summary.pdf 20090615_monthly_statement.pdf The current numerically-focused sorting algorithm places the summary statements at the top of the list, followed by all of the monthly statements. It's not what I would have wanted. But I also see that this is a heated issue. So I have found a work-around, which is to insert dashes in the filenames, like this: 2009-02-15_monthly_statement.pdf 2009-03_first_quarter_summary.pdf 2009-03-15_monthly_statement.pdf 2009-04-15_monthly_statement.pdf 2009-05-15_monthly_statement.pdf 2009-06_second_quarter_summary.pdf 2009-06-15_monthly_statement.pdf These filename are sorted in date order, as one would expect. I also have similar problems with photos, which might live in folders with names like these: 2010-04-25_maker_faire 2010-04_easter 2010-04_new_york 2010-04_spring_outing 2010-05 2010-05-09_mothers_day 2010-05-30_jordan_lake 2010-05_shuttle_launch Again, the dashes do cause the directories to be sorted into proper numerical / alphabetical / date order. Without them, the events that span several days (like the May shuttle launch) appear before the events on a particular day (like Maker Faire in April). I do hope that you guys can come to an agreement without alienating each other. Alan Porter -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
you can open a new bug with a clear description of the issue and locale you use if you still have an issue -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Could you stop copying the same comments on close bugs? -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Look, 3aa 4aa 20a Is just BROKEN. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu) Status: Invalid => New ** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu) Status: New => Invalid -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Look, 3aa 4aa 20a Is just BROKEN. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
I reply here only to the technical observations (assuming I'm the troll, I avoid feeding myself...). > the right way in my opinion to have it is by adding a new gconf key retaining > current sorting behaviour by default, but > *not* adding a new UI element in the nautilus preferences dialog. That would be more than enough, I rarely use gconf-editor and it did not come to my mind. It's the equivalent of the "Advanced" tab I proposed above. > Please note that lexicographical ordering is hard nevertheless in the UTF-8 world. I'm not a gnome developer, but since the coders managed to implement such complicated sorting rules like the current ones, that are full of exceptions, I assume they are also able to code a much simpler method that uses only a subset of those rules, right? -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
If you're not a developer, you're always free to set a bounty in money for others to implement; that'll foster development. It seems to me that people complaining mistake "free as in speech" for "free as in beer", and also take for granted that, just because a community exists, they have to abuse it giving little in change. Quite a lot of GNOME contributors are volunteers. They deserve more respect than be bullied around at every user request. If you really want to discuss this issue, bring it up on the desktop-devel-l...@gnome.org. Of course there are *always* someone asking for something that isn't there. I've seen all sort of issues across bugzilla; some reasonable, some not. The ability to set priority and tasks, and also the great burden to say 'no' and disgruntle someone in the user base, is a painful and too-often underestimated process: it takes time, effort, and even the best diplomacy sometimes turns out to be wasted. This is very discouraging. *A lot* of devs got so fed up at people *pretending* things, that they now start ignoring them in the first place. This is sad, of course; but the best way to avoid this happening surely isn't being so vocal in the wrong place. In the end, someone has to steer the wheel. The decision that has been taken with nautilus has been the one most requested at the time of implementation. Please also research bugs complaining about lexicographical ordering, and MLs. Yours isn't a proof people want to change implementation, just that there exist someone disgruntled (a person, in the comment you pointed out, that hasn't been active in bugzilla apart from that). Your reasoning is faulty there. As a side note, try push a feature request like this up to, say, Microsoft or Apple, since "Ubuntu will never be the OS for the masses". Please keep us posted on their response. They tell me that even a phone call is around 18€ in Microsoft. This kind of angst-driven comments really makes me take the other side of the discussion, despite the technical merits. --- By the way, to stay more on this bug contents: if an implementation of this really needs to be there, the right way in my opinion to have it is by adding a new gconf key retaining current sorting behaviour by default, but *not* adding a new UI element in the nautilus preferences dialog. Please note that lexicographical ordering is hard nevertheless in the UTF-8 world. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Last words I tell about this issue: I should have tried to search this feature request on b.g.o before, but now that I've searched, I can tell it's simply false that no one is asking for it: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547350 In particular see comment #4. Do you still believe no one would use this feature? Ok, take a look here also: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169883 Still not convinced? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/322271 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=574775 I could go on, but the truth is that *gnome developers* are not asking for this feature (or should I say *glib developers* just to ease the process of reporting bugs one step further?). Normal users do want it instead. And there is a reason why I forgot to search through bug reports in the first place: I come from Debian where I used to report bugs through reportbug, which shows a list of already opened bugs on the package, before starting the bug report. But someone told me that reportbug it's not the bug reporting tool in Ubuntu and that apport-cli is the replacement... except it does not show the already opened bugs, but that's another story... Thank you all for your unbiased opinions about this feature. Keep up the good work and Ubuntu will become the O.S. for the masses. Dream on. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
> And I can tell you I don't want to pollute the preferences with options > confusing and unneeded by most people. You all have made me change my mind, and now I agree with you all on that issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome2/+bug/326638 > However, you're trolling. It has been clearly stated here that you should > either report this issue upstream or shut up. If > you're too lazy to spend two minutes by registering on b.g.o, then this issue > is not important even to you. You're missing the point here, the problem it's not me. It's quite obvious that I can spend 2 minutes to register and report the issue upstream, but that two minutes and that extra registration are simply overkill for a normal user if he wants to ask for a new feature. > And keep in mind: this is opensource. To prove your point, patches are > welcome. Yes, tell that to normal users now... Lucio. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
I'm not a nautilus developer, either. I'm an end user. And I can tell you I don't want to pollute the preferences with options confusing and unneeded by most people. However, you're trolling. It has been clearly stated here that you should either report this issue upstream or shut up. If you're too lazy to spend two minutes by registering on b.g.o, then this issue is not important even to you. And keep in mind: this is opensource. To prove your point, patches are welcome. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
> what an useful behaviour to have, why should other people send your request to GNOME if they think they are wrong? Because they are the maintainers. I'm not asking for a lawyer to defend my interests, I'm suggesting a maintainer could file the bug upstream because maintainers are already registered onto the upstream BTS. The maintainer could simply file the bug with the same title it has here on launchpad, copy the URL to the launchpad bug in the bug description, add the original submitter email to the notifications list and remove himself if he wants, but he needs not to register on the BTS. That's an activity that takes at most 2 minutes because the maintainer is already registered at the upstream BTS. >From that on, the original submitter will receive bug changes notifications and can reply them by email. Lucio. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
> when you don't agree with them. That's called listening to users requests. then if upstream close the bug because they don't agree who should give counter arguments? the bug triager who has no counter argument because he's not the one who has an opinion on the topic? -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
> how would you call this option to be understandable though? "Sorting" for example, followed by a list choice, including "Default" (the current one), "Alphabetical" and eventually others. I'm not native english speaker, nevertheless I find that quite understandable. > they also learn that 11 is higher than 2 so why should it be listed between 1 > and 2? Because most files names do not represent numbers also when they are composed by numbers only. My first example should make it clear, in my case they are actually years and months (and sometimes days), not numbers. BTW, that scheme is used quite frequently by normal users who download their camera snapshots and organize them by date. > you are one of the first users to request for a such options in 5 years of > ubuntu, there is not so many users requesting > for a such choice maybe others didn't bother to ask for it (one persone I know used to think it was a problem of its own setup and did not bother to file the bug, assuming it was caused by his own mistake). >that was a typo, "un-usable", what about an "advanced" tab that could be used to throw in all that geek stuff? I'm sure someone else already invented such a thing... > you should better be doing that yourself in this case As said above, I'm doing that myself. BTW, I don't know anything about the triager and how to use it, but if you expect normal users to collaborate and file bugs, you should widen your policies a bit and file bugs upstram on behalf of normal users also when you don't agree with them. That's called listening to users requests. Otherwise Ubuntu and Linux in general will remain a geek only system, regardless of all the fuss and philosophy around it. IMHO, obviously. Lucio. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
what an useful behaviour to have, why should other people send your request to GNOME if they think they are wrong? -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
@Sebastian: "normal users" are not "stupid users", with few exceptions :) "normal users" learn the alphabetical order at 6 y/o when they go to school, it's not that hard to understand... "normal users" would certainly use such an option, just like they use other much less useful options for them, "date format" for example. "normal users" already face things they do not understand (what about the option to show the "MIME type" column for example? Do you expect "normal users" to understand it?) Finally, if adding such an option makes the system unstable, I've to say there must be a design flaw in the system itself... I'm sure even Microsoft could manage to add such an option to explorer without making it more unstable :) I understand this should be filed upstream, but I used to hope that Launchpad served to forward bugs upstream when needed. Maybe my fault here. Lucio. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
> "normal users" are not "stupid users", with few exceptions :) nobody says that users are stupid, how would you call this option to be understandable though? do you think that's really somebody users want to have to choice rather than something that should just work? adding options for every requests would mean having thousand of options listed which wouldn't benefit anybody and complicate the dialogs > "normal users" learn the alphabetical order at 6 y/o when they go to school, it's not that hard to understand... they also learn that 11 is higher than 2 so why should it be listed between 1 and 2? > "normal users" would certainly use such an option, just like they use other much less useful options for them, "date format" for example. you are one of the first users to request for a such options in 5 years of ubuntu, there is not so many users requesting for a such choice no and the option would be there and complicate the dialog for everybody else > "normal users" already face things they do not understand (what about the option to show the "MIME type" column for example? Do you expect "normal users" to understand it?) that's a good point and maybe that should not be an option, feel free to open a bug to discuss that if you want > such an option makes the system unstable that was a typo, "un-usable", too many options means you have to spend efforts to find anything > I understand this should be filed upstream, but I used to hope that Launchpad served to forward bugs upstream when needed. Maybe my fault here. you can use launchpad and the bug triager will forward bugs, that is not a bug though but a change request, somebody who don't agree on the usefulness of the change is not the best person to open the request or argue upstream, you should better be doing that yourself in this case -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
So I've headed bugzilla.gnome.org, and guess what? " Have a problem? 1. Create an account " Damn, I already have an account on Launchpad, I've already filed the bug, but I have to create another account just to copy and paste my wish onto bugzilla, because Ubuntu Desktop maintainers refuse to forward it... Next time someone tells me that reporting bugs and suggestions helps the community to improve the product, I'm afraid I'll find something better to do in my spare time... Now I'm going to file the bug upstream nevertheless, but I'm going to file it on bugs.kde.org, at least I can tell myself I'm not wasting my time. If Gnome developers want to see it, they'll have to come here and read it. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
I've just tried konqueror: version 3.5/debian uses alphabetical order, version 4.1.4/intrepid (but not on kubuntu) behaves the same as nautilus. I've no other versions to try. However I don't believe that the behavior of any other piece of software, be it konqueror or others, should be a reference point, 'cause in that case I could take 'ls' as a reference point (or konqueror 3.5) and pretend nautilus behaves the wrong way. I think the reference point should be end users. I'm not a nautilus developer, but I think that adding an option in the preferences panel to change the sort order could make more people happy and it should not be all that hassle... -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
thank you for your bug report, that's not an option normal users would use or understand though and you could add hundred of similars options and make the configuration ununstable and non constitant between configuration, closing the bug since that's not something the ubuntu team will change against GNOME, open a request on bugzilla.gnome.org where the people writting the software will read it if you want though ** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => Low Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs) Status: New => Invalid -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
The current behavior is what most "developers" would expect. It's always the same problem, end users needs are not respected at all every time i need to sort elements in gnome, i have to switch to konqueror or use ls -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
Well, since "years ago" things could change a bit if needed... However I'm not asking for a fix, but I'm asking for an option to be added in the preferences panel. I'd have rated this bug as "whishlist" if I could. Anyway, I personally know at least two people except me who do not expect this behavior, but they would expect a normal alphabetical sorting... Lucio. -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
This was discussed years ago on the relevant mailing lists, and it was
chosen to be the intended behaviour. I don't think it will ever be
changed. Imagine saving a large number of screenshots, or using wget for
downloading some files:
for i in `seq 0 100`; do touch ${i}.txt; done
The current behaviour is what most users would expect.
If I recall correctly, also konqueror (now dolphin) behaves the same.
--
sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
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[Bug 326582] Re: sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical
** Attachment added: "Dependencies.txt" http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22078942/Dependencies.txt -- sort order of files listings in nautilus is not alphabetical https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/326582 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
