Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Il giorno mar, 31/03/2009 alle 11.40 +, Brian J. Murrell ha scritto: > > I never minimize my pidgin windows. I also use devilspie to have them > skip the tasklist and be visible on all workspaces. As a tool, > pidgin/IM is as important to me as are the panels and window > management, > etc. > > But probably, as such I've learnt to manage it's ability to (not) > interrupt me, yet keep me notified of what's happening. I want the > same > from my update notifier. That's in the spirit of what I wrote: you want pidgin there all the time, but as it's a long-running window you don't want it in your ALT +TAB list. The same problem I think exists in update notifier. Even a minimised window will not completely solve the problem. A notification did, but this is the change we are discussing. Now a typical user may enjoy suitable defaults. A more advanced user will configure how to receive system notifications. If they are all in one place, it's easy to do it. If they have the same choices, conventions and defaults of the very common IM paradigm, people will understand them effortlessly. V. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 07:37 +, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > > Not completely clear: do you have your IM open minimised windows in > front of you or what is your preferred method of being notified? No. I have two windows (I use pidgin) displayed all of the time. I never minimize them. One window is the buddy list and the other a window of tabs, one tab for each buddy (that has messages pending) and one for each irc channel I am on. I may not be your typical IM user though. I use IRC (in pidgin) all day 5 days a week as my main method of communicating with colleagues, because I telecommute for work. > Don't > minimised windows interfere with ALT+TAB so they actually come up every > now and then, and you have to close them or move to another desktop? I never minimize my pidgin windows. I also use devilspie to have them skip the tasklist and be visible on all workspaces. As a tool, pidgin/IM is as important to me as are the panels and window management, etc. But probably, as such I've learnt to manage it's ability to (not) interrupt me, yet keep me notified of what's happening. I want the same from my update notifier. b. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On 30/03/2009 Brian J. Murrell wrote: > > Disagree. I don't fiddle with my IM status. If I'm busy, I just > ignore > you because you don't get to pop up a window in front of my work. I > deal with you when I have a chance. I expect to treat my System in > the > same way. Not completely clear: do you have your IM open minimised windows in front of you or what is your preferred method of being notified? Don't minimised windows interfere with ALT+TAB so they actually come up every now and then, and you have to close them or move to another desktop? Vincenzo -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 20:50 +, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > > Now that gives me one more argument to adopt the "instant messaging" > interaction pattern: users deal with IM every day. When they don't want > to be disturbed they set their status to "busy". We have support for > this in the FUSA applet which is on the default desktop. A polite > interlocutor will not disturb you while you are busy, unless it's really > urgent. Disagree. I don't fiddle with my IM status. If I'm busy, I just ignore you because you don't get to pop up a window in front of my work. I deal with you when I have a chance. I expect to treat my System in the same way. b. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On 30/03/2009 Michael Rooney wrote: > > > But the windows itself could be minimised. Let's explore that. I > > > think it may be too late for Jaunty but I'll see what we can do. > > > > > That is a really wonderful idea! I think this would solve a lot of the > usability issues and also eliminate any bugs regarding z-ordering / > focus > issues. > I tought about this today; while minimised windows are better, they will get in the way of alt+tab. That's desired, because the idea here is to "interact with the user immediately". But that's wrong with users: suppose I am revising a paper, I constantly alt+tab between the comments that I am writing in plain text, and the pdf of the paper. If a window gets in the middle of the process it distracts me. Now I am tolerant to computers :) But an employee in a non-techie company will inevitably say "who is the System and why does He think that he can ask for my _immediate_ attention???". Now that gives me one more argument to adopt the "instant messaging" interaction pattern: users deal with IM every day. When they don't want to be disturbed they set their status to "busy". We have support for this in the FUSA applet which is on the default desktop. A polite interlocutor will not disturb you while you are busy, unless it's really urgent. A polite System, like ubuntu is expected to be, would in this case postpone the notification. A really urgent notification such as "the system is about to burn, turn it off please" would go trough instead. Vincenzo -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Jamin W. Collins wrote: > > If a window is minimized on one workspace, and the user is on any > other workspace, clicking on the window in the window list on the > panel does nothing other than flash the entry. The use has to be on > the same workspace the window was minimized on in order to restore > it. I've verified that this is still a problem with up to date > Jaunty. > > Reported here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571588 I knew there was an older report of that bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/216049 Appears it was closed for non-response. Wouldn't have taken but a few moments for the individual that closed it verify it. All necessary information was in the bug report. -- Jamin W. Collins -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Michael Rooney wrote: > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > >> But the windows itself could be minimised. Let's explore that. I >> think it may be too late for Jaunty but I'll see what we can do. > > That is a really wonderful idea! I think this would solve a lot of the > usability issues and also eliminate any bugs regarding z-ordering / focus > issues. While it may solve/mitigate some of the complaints. It will also expose/aggravate a bug in Metacity with multiple workspaces. If a window is minimized on one workspace, and the user is on any other workspace, clicking on the window in the window list on the panel does nothing other than flash the entry. The use has to be on the same workspace the window was minimized on in order to restore it. I've verified that this is still a problem with up to date Jaunty. Reported here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571588 This is one of the prime reasons replacing Metacity with Openbox is one of the first things I do after install. Then there's also the fact that the default configuration of the window list is to only show the windows for the current workspace. So, what happens when a user is on workspace 1, the window opens minimized, and then the user switches away from the workspace without noticing it? Are we then going to set the window to be on all workspaces minimized? It may just be me (though I seriously doubt it), but this seems like an awful lot of effort for something that will only annoy users. -- Jamin W. Collins -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > But the windows itself could be minimised. Let's explore that. I > think it may be too late for Jaunty but I'll see what we can do. > That is a really wonderful idea! I think this would solve a lot of the usability issues and also eliminate any bugs regarding z-ordering / focus issues. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > I see your point, but we all know from years of experience that > pop-ups and pop-unders are only considered an annoyance by users, and > that they don't fit for the purpose. That's why most of us were proud > of the gnome way: to avoid as many pop-ups as possible. This gave > ubuntu a "rock solid, unannoying" feeling that made it extremely > competitive on usability over windows. > > We all are complaining because we feel that pop-under or whaterer are > just wrong, and we want ubuntu to be perfect :) And I see your point! We've been focused on the idea that the action itself should be immediately accessible to the user (rather than a notification followed by a clickable panel icon followed by the action :-)). But the windows itself could be minimised. Let's explore that. I think it may be too late for Jaunty but I'll see what we can do. MPT, can you see any issues with having the window start minimised? That's consistent with our longer-term plans for elegant calling-for-attention. If you think it's workable, would you raise it with MVO and see if it's a one-liner or close to it for Jaunty? Mark -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On 27/03/2009 Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > We have good usability information that says that notification areas > are > swamps. They are swamps on Windows, and swamps in all the Linux > distributions. Dear Mark, I see your point, but we all know from years of experience that pop-ups and pop-unders are only considered an annoyance by users, and that they don't fit for the purpose. That's why most of us were proud of the gnome way: to avoid as many pop-ups as possible. This gave ubuntu a "rock solid, unannoying" feeling that made it extremely competitive on usability over windows. We all are complaining because we feel that pop-under or whaterer are just wrong, and we want ubuntu to be perfect :) In any case I appreciate a lot the work of canonical: to summarize, "jaunty is lovely". Vincenzo -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Op vrijdag 27-03-2009 om 19:29 uur [tijdzone +], schreef Mark Shuttleworth: > Back to the notification area. If we're going to clean up the panel and > the notification area, we should start with the system pieces. Those > include the restart-required icon, and the updates-available icon. So > those are gone in 9.04. There are ways for experts to have that > functionality if they want it. I suggest that even if a user chooses to see the icons instead of the popup/popunder, that if he/she didn't install security updates after 3 days, the popup/popunder should still happen. That way you can make sure that the wannabe experts that follow all those 'how to "fix" ubuntu' blogs & websites will still install security updates... -- Jan Claeys -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 20:26 +, Iain Lane wrote: > > No, they pop in the background, unfocused. I personally don't think this > is the right behaviour either, but at least it's not disruptive in that > way. Nobody would be insane enough to try that ;) So hidden under all of the other windows that literally cover very square inch of my screen? In any case, I don't think my experience was that it was popping up under other windows. I saw the update-manger up on top of all of my other windows. I just fail to see how unsolicited application pop-ups that cover a major portion of my screen real-estate is good UI design. Maybe a lesson about "pop-ups" needs to learnt from the popularity of web browser pop-up blockers. Surely that lesson is not being ignored, yes? b. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 20:13 +, Brian J. Murrell wrote: > On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 19:29 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > Nothing like a healthy debate. > > Indeed. So let's kick it off with where we stand right now and that's > (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) no notification icon anymore and an > update-manager window that pops up once-a-week (in absence of critical > updates) and interrupts me. Is this understanding correct? No. What should happen is that the window should pop up behind other windows. In this way it won't steal focus or have accidental clicks. There would be several problems with it popping up in front of what the user is working on. If there are security updates, it won't wait for a week to show the window, and the window will call for attention -- meaning that it should pulse in the window switcher, to encourage the user to interact with the window and install the security updates. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Brian J. Murrell wrote: > On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 19:29 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: >> Nothing like a healthy debate. > > Indeed. So let's kick it off with where we stand right now and that's > (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) no notification icon anymore and an > update-manager window that pops up once-a-week (in absence of critical > updates) and interrupts me. Is this understanding correct? No, they pop in the background, unfocused. I personally don't think this is the right behaviour either, but at least it's not disruptive in that way. Nobody would be insane enough to try that ;) Iain -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknNNlwACgkQPy0SnCC/zcellwCfSoMNFugRrU9sg+RbL/O+p4Qq On4An0wi0sVMku9Ku1dt9e6ws57WXfFg =XIFP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 19:29 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Nothing like a healthy debate. Indeed. So let's kick it off with where we stand right now and that's (afaik, correct me if I'm wrong) no notification icon anymore and an update-manager window that pops up once-a-week (in absence of critical updates) and interrupts me. Is this understanding correct? I'm not sure I see how popping up windows in front of what users are actively working on is good UI design. I have caught wind that this popping up of windows might somehow be molded into "morphing windows" or somesuch thing, that tbh, I don't understand. Am I off base yet/still? I guess the question is then, if windows popping up and disturbing one's workflow is not the final UI design in all of this, will the final design be done before Jaunty is GA? And if not, then why start exposing users to this new way of doing things while it is still ugly, disruptive and not complete state? b. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Nothing like a healthy debate. But please let's keep it stylish, informative and pleasant. There are some comments here that are not very Ubuntu. Please take a breath, and pour some water on any flames you're about to throw. They don't help. Now, some folks are saying "why wasn't I consulted about this change?". But think about this. You probably weren't directly consulted on a million other changes that make up this release. Most of those came from upstream, some came from Debian, and many were made right here in Ubuntu. We have a lot of very public, open, participative forums, but nobody can be in every forum, on every thread, in every meeting, on every channel. The fact that there is a change here that surprises you isn't grounds for shouting out that the change itself was made in bad faith. Also, the fact that this change was driven by a team at Canonical (including me) is no reason for conspiracy theories or abuse. Canonical drives a huge amount of changes, mostly in proportion to the person- hours contributed, but we invest Ubuntu alongside the rest of the community, and we work hard at making that relationship a success. I've personally spent quite a lot sponsoring some of the people who are most vocally upset here, to come to UDS's, so I'm not all that sympathetic to them saying that Canonical doesn't make an effort to hear their voices. Now, on this specific issue. We have good usability information that says that notification areas are swamps. They are swamps on Windows, and swamps in all the Linux distributions. They inevitably become dumping grounds for "things that don't fit". Users dislike them, and application vendors abuse them. Most of all, average users don't understand the majority of the information that is presented there, because it's all inconsistent and often arbitrary. We want Ubuntu to be better than that. So we have been studying the panel indicators and trying to figure out what we can do to make it better. Now, this is highly sensitive stuff. People who DO understand something there, are often very attached to it, because it's very visible. We're going to cause a lot of ruptions, and we might get the odd thing wrong. But, we're not afraid of making bold moves. Ubuntu itself was a bold move, and has attracted a fair amount of criticism for its very existence, but that didn't stop us. If we want to transform the Linux desktop from where it is today, to something that Apple will feel obliged to emulate in parts, we are going to have to make bold moves and big changes, and those will cause distress. If we're right, the result will be fantastic, and the changes will be embraced by other distributions and upstream. If we're wrong, they won't. We are focusing our design and user experience attention on the elements of the experience that span multiple applications. Notifications, and the notification area, are two such elements. We developed a framework for "how applications engage with the user when they don't have the focus". We tested those ideas, and we think they are worth taking some risks to achieve. MPT documented that conceptual framework, it was discussed, and now we are getting down to work. Back to the notification area. If we're going to clean up the panel and the notification area, we should start with the system pieces. Those include the restart-required icon, and the updates-available icon. So those are gone in 9.04. There are ways for experts to have that functionality if they want it. Most of the folks on this bug are squarely in the expert group, and I won't be offended at all if you decide to have those icons in your notification area. But I do think that the approach we are taking is better to spread the arms of the community open even wider, and draw in folks who are experts in a million things OTHER than code, translations, and open source project matters. Our friends and family. I'll ask you all to be excellent to each other. This bug is no place for name-calling and slander. Everyone here, including those most upset, and including me and the others on the team that are driving these changes, devotes our lives to the same cause: getting free software everywhere. Treating each other poorly is a step backwards. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty) Status: Confirmed => Won't Fix ** Summary changed: - [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG + [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information ** Changed in: ubuntu-release-notes Importance: Undecided => Low -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
>From security point of view this idea sounds horrible. There is claim that this is made to improve security but only way to do it is make automatic security update install default in new installations. Here is one good idea that is implemented very badly. So my idea of implementing removal of icons from notification areal is that it has to be easily configurable to user. I want to have easy access to background applications and open window is much worse than icon. Notification icno is many times smaller than window selector entry. For me it would be better if I could configure even more applications to use notification icons to help me to interact with them. And my guess is that I'm not alone who hopes that there is way to have easily clickable icon for many background running programs that I use infrequently. It is good idea to try new UI design but you should also do UI testing and compare new and old interface. Preferable as near as possible of real world usage pattern. That way at least the worst usability bugs would be fixed in new implementation before making . people hate it. PS. If you make radical changes toUI you will always get bad initial reaction. But if new design was really improvement (and no major bugs) nearly everyone will accept it shortly. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
If it would be possible to reverse behavior for next releases - great, let's try this new way. Let users bash or glorify us. But if we get serious bashing, those who decided that we should go this way (even though majority of us don't like it), should admit they are wrong and kill this idea. Remember the spatial browsing? -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Assigning to the dxteam, per the regression tracking process. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty) Assignee: (unassigned) => dx team (dxteam) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Bah, sorry, assigned to the wrong team. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty) Assignee: dx team (dxteam) => Canonical DX team (canonical-dx-team) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I would like to second (third, fourth?) the point that while cleaning up the notification area is a good idea as applications are abusing it, the update -notification- icon IS A NOTIFICATION! Surely that means it is something that does belong there, and shouldn't be messed with? I think removing it is a bad move -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I'd like to point out that the "old" notification style is still used by apport, where the notification text points to the icon in the notification area. Including a picture of the icon would in my opinion ease the understanding of the upgrade request. Also, notifications seems to start close to the icon in pidgin for example, so maybe their shape can become that of "pop-up balloons" actually STARTING in the originating icon, if any? I think that should definitely make it clear. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Vadim, you'll want someone like Mark commenting on this, or a member of the DX team. Any other developer won't cut it (as we're effectively users in this instance, and many of us don't like these changes either). Also, i'm not sure this *particular* bit was mentioned at UDS - I remember seeing the mockup of what they planned for notification, with the black boxes, but I don't recall hearing them talk about, let alone, show mockups of, cleaning up the notification area. This is likely why no one blogged about it (at least that i saw) - perhaps they all missed it too, or it just wasn't there. Either way, I'm sad to say that this hasn't been handled well by Canonical, and, unless the DX team decide to go and break even more freezes (such as the UI freeze), we'll be stuck with it like this for Jaunty. One can only hope that there is a better result in Karmic, and that not too many users are lost to other distributions, due to the regressions they see in Ubuntu. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
** Also affects: update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty) Importance: High Status: Confirmed -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Will there be any words on this? It's bad enough that this feature was practically not covered anywhere public but the UDS (personally I did not sit and listen to every uds session or read every transcript, I'd expect something important to show up in a publicly visible space like planet ubuntu or fridge), there is also no response from the developers for two days, when there is a clear issue. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I really don't understand how a pop-under window is supposed to notify the user about anything. A pop-under just isn't obvious at all. If I'm using Windows, I often find myself annoyed at any window that appears on my task bar without me specifically launching it. The current Ibex method seems perfect, a persistent icon is included in an area that is generally unobtrusive, and a balloon explaining the icons purpose appearing beneath it, for a short period. The only problem I might have with this solution is that occasionally the bubble gets in the way of work I want to do. Please, please, please regress this change, as I almost guarantee the feedback when Jaunty drops will be universally negative. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I know it's just a "me too" comment, but this issue is serious enough so I add it. Most people here are right, as a simple user, the new mechanism is a pain and a big regression. I think this effort is a waste of time and resources. Open a window periodically is simply bad and somewhat aggressive. Furthermore, update are checked less often which lead to security problems compared to previous behavior! -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
YES !!! I followed the hint from the blog and it has helped! The orange icon is there... I had to downgrade one package manually with dpkg to give it try :-) In the terminal run: gconftool -s --type bool /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch false and then either logout/login from X or restart update-notifier (killall update-notifier && update-notifier) and wait for next rolled-out update. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Looking at this blog post: http://amber.redvoodoo.org/2009/03/ubuntu-chronicles-saga-of-amber- and_23.html There's a way to at least get the old icon notifier back. ** Also affects: ubuntu-release-notes Importance: Undecided Status: New -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Entirely agree with ruban, the notifier icon for updates (as implemented in Intrepid) is simply perfect. As against, no one like unsolicited windows. Please restore the old behavior. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote on 2009-02-23: (permalink) "... clean up the notification area, and in particular to stop using it for things that it cannot actually recognizably notify people of ... but we think making update installation more obvious will make Ubuntu more secure for more people." I agree 100% with the goal but have to disagree with the notification not being recognizable. For 90% of new users coming to Ubuntu will quickly recognize what the icon is used for (they have already received this training on the OS they are leaving). When I first started using Ubuntu a couple of years ago this was one of the first things I learned about and I really appreciated the first class update support that notified me on a daily basis and persisted until I clicked initiate the update. If you want to improve usability for novice users a streamlined Update Manager (with an option for the old UI with additional details) would be more appropriate than removing the notification. I fully agree with other posters that a persistent notification is required. I think launching Update Manager would be appropriate for any machine that was way out of date (user selectable times?) and for the users that don't understand or ignore the notification icon. I also think it would be OK to allow the user to easily migrate to the new system as the bugs get worked out by electing to turn off the notification (but I do worry that a non-persistent notification is asking for big trouble and is a big regression in functionality). Once you find that only a small fraction of users still feel the need of the notification icon it could be gently removed, but not before a *superior* mechanism is in place. It's tough to innovate without ruffling feathers, but new features should be compelling enough to make users *want* to switch, otherwise stick with what works. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Well, "the obvious solution, that is, put a button into the popup notification, would not work well." The new notifications are designed to be non-clickable. Again, design decision. When you hover your mouse over them, they dissapear / fade out to reveal the content below and clicks go through. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I know that this bug addresses the issue of users not understanding where to click when the popup alert about updates came out. I can't understand why the obvious solution, that is, put a button into the popup notification, would not work well. I either can't understand why the most hated solution of all, that is, a dialog window coming out automatically, that is, the solution that good old windows used all the way, and that we gnome users where proud of avoiding, well, I don't understand why this is the chosen solution. Again, taking as a principle to more or less never pop up a dialog, is one of the best qualities of gnome. Popping-under makes no sense. There's people in offices that NEVER closes firefox or openoffice, not to mention evolution. If the pop-under goes below evolution I am sure people won't notice it. Makes no sense to me! Please be constructive and discuss this a bit more. Not for me, but for the sake of our users. I know that unwanted popups trigger an automatic "close and forget" mechanism in ordinary users. Moreover, persistent popups that come out every now and then also add a sense of anger and frustration against the system that disturbs the user. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
@Matthew, the complaint isn't about an inability to update the reportedly out of data packages at the time of a crash. That's of little use. The complaint is instead that there were updates the system knew about prior to the crash but didn't notify me about, as expected based on previous and preferred behavior. If the system knows about updates, it should (IMO) notify me that there are updates. Not wait up to a week to potentially interrupt what I'm doing or put a notification under a pile of windows so it's never seen. Especially when testing a pre-release, updates should be presented as soon as the system knows about them. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
The problem with crash reports in out-of-date packages is bug 340970. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I can't agree more with the sentiment of those that want the old functionality back. Security update or no, I don't want to wait a week to be notified and then be either notified by an abrupt "in your face" pop over or a "you'll never see me" pop under. Since starting to test Jaunty I've repeated encountered application crashes (npviewer.bin, as I recall) that apport won't let me report as the system is lagging behind on updates I wasn't aware were available since I was expecting the old behavior. In short, security update or not, I would like to be notified in a obvious and unobtrusive manner that there are updates available as soon as my system knows that they are there. I would like said notification to be persistent but unobtrusive. I felt the method used in Intrepid and prior worked fine. I don't care for what I've seen of this new method at all. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
What a horrible change. I just accustomed my mom to looking at the notification area for a red arrow (update now) or an orange starburst. And now she needs to either manually open the window and check for updates, or be interrupted in the middle of her work for them? What happened to "let the user decide their schedule" idea? -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
That is one of the features that I liked about Ubuntu. When a security update became available the little red arrow icon would appear on the top taksbar. I then had the option to open the Updater and see what was available and then decide if I wanted to do it or not. I also had the option to make it automatic which I didn't use. I agree with others that removing this is like taking a b ig step backward and I don't quit see why Ubuntu would want to do this. I think most of us are used to the red arrow informing us ooof Security updates and would like for it to stay in future versions or at the very least ask us and show us the options. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
This is a case where I actually agree with the philosophy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Perhaps the logical progression would have been to make the update notifier configurable in a way that could be configured to do it the "old" way instead of changing it without an easy way to change it back and piss off everyone who likes their systems updated constantly. And also, if something crashes, it's going to make people not report bugs because Apport tells them that their system is out running old crappy software, update to the new version, and then file a bug when something crashes. Sure, it may cut down on invalid bugs, but it also increases the chances of a bug slipping through the cracks when the perfect combination of things are done to cause it to show up. In short; don't change the behavior, we don't like it your way. Ubuntu is the software equivalent of Burger King. Make it my (our) way. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Intrepid update notifier was fine. An applet appeared on the top line, I could attend to it at an appropriate time. I certainly don't want a drop down window interrupting what I'm doing. Since I'm running alpha jaunty much of the time when I boot up I invoke update manager and then do a check. If it reports "partial" then I do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade. Intrepid update notifier wasn't broken. "If it isn't broken don't fix it". Jerry -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I also want to vote for the free choice. I support innovations but please also keep an option for the more conservatives. ;-) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Mon, 2009-03-23 at 23:06 +, Steve Jackson wrote: > I echo what riban said. I'm likely to just disable the update-notifier > altogether rather than risk having ugly pop-unders (and maybe pop-overs > by mistake) happening in the middle of a presentation. Losing the > existing 'gentle' mechanism for persistent reminders in favour of a > 'bullying' one is a worrying development in my (forgetful but freedom- > loving) mind. What they said. I don't need to interrupted while I'm busy trying to achieve my work task to deal with updates. I will deal with them in an albeit expedient, however convenient time frame. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I will quote: I was wondering why I wasn't notified of updates... no update-notifier?! that sucks!!! :-S *I want my notifier back* and I really don't care about libnotify popups (tough was good)... a icon it's fine by me please :-D Can I get an option to have the icon show up if I want? Even windows gives me that option. This way if you don't care for it leave it disabled. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I echo what riban said. I'm likely to just disable the update-notifier altogether rather than risk having ugly pop-unders (and maybe pop-overs by mistake) happening in the middle of a presentation. Losing the existing 'gentle' mechanism for persistent reminders in favour of a 'bullying' one is a worrying development in my (forgetful but freedom- loving) mind. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
The update notifier icon (as implemented in Intrepid) is fantastic. It is clear and obvious and no one I know has been confused by it. It is only there when it needs to be. The user can decide what to do about the notification of updates. I am pretty computer savvy but relatives and friends that I have encouraged to use Ubuntu (because it is so simple to use) are not, yet find the current update mechanism good. The idea of a nag-box popping up when you don't want it reminds me of other operating systems. Such annoying prompts are a pain. In Intrepid, I see the update. At a time that suits me (usually quite quickly) I check out what has been updated and why. I then perform the update (if appropriate). I can't understand what is better about the new mechanism. Surely we don't want to upset our current and future users. Please keep the existing mechanism, it is great! What feedback I do have on updates is to offer a simpler description option for non-geeks. I like the full descriptions and am worried when one is not available but others just get confused by descriptions that appear to be a different language. I know it is difficult to describe technical detail in simple (normal) terms but this would be appreciated by the non-geeks out there. (I understand Ubuntu is aimed at them!) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I really cannot say that I'm in favor of the way this is projected, but I find myself in most agreement with the points that: 1) this should be adjustable, and 2) that there needs to be a more persistant way of notifying for needed reboots and updates not attended to (most especially security updates). With Ubuntu's ever growing popularity, more security flaws are found, more quickly, but also stand to be exploited more often as well, in my opinion. I also believe that this should be left to be decided by the (at least more informed) people, as Ubuntu is supposed to be Linux for the people. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I also like the Ideas behind the new notification system and I love the idea of cleaning up the notification area, but does this mean notification area is deprecated? Agreed, there are far too many applications abusing these icons by presenting completely irrelevant icons. Mainly applications stating »Hello, I am running and there is nothing to do« should not go there. BUT: Update notifications are a perfectly valid example of reasonable notification icons. An update is an event that requires action, sometime in the near future. Open windows like that update notification waste space in the window list and they do appear in the application switcher (alt-tab) - Notification icons do not. They are in no possible way ever in the way of the users work flow. But with a glimpse you could determine that some action is required. -- And now for something completely different: Windows implements an option to install updates on shutdown. So maybe update-manager could be coupled with gnome-session-save to display the update-notifications on shutdown. That would could be another solution to the problem of users not realizing the notification icon. Of course with an option to not install the updates, because sometimes you’re in a hurry an want the system to shutdown fast. ~jug -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu) Importance: Wishlist => High Status: New => Confirmed -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
@Brian the bug here is the removal of Update-Notifier. It can be set on gconf (not as discoverable as wished) But this bug introduces a few ones like Cooke mention: no control of the popup/popunder, no notification of reboot -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Brian J. Murrell, the problem with Update Manager appearing in front of everything else is bug 333284. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Brian: Yes, I think that's the main problem. According the spec, update-manager should be a morphing window by the time this piece of work is "finished", right? That will solve pretty much all of the problems relating to it becoming a pop-up, I believe. I expect we'll end up needing to file a few usability bugs to get it all sorted and user- friendly - for instance, it's not currently a morphing window and if a partial upgrade is needed, it pops up a *focussed* window. If these aren't currently being sorted, they should be bugs... but they're not as important as the loss of passive information in *this* bug. The basic regression, then, is thus: 1) No *continuous* reminder that a reboot or log-out is necessary. A pop-up window is a terrible thing for this: If it can't be closed, it's a constant annoyance. If it can, it's not continuous! 2) No policy for what happens if the user closes the update-manager window after it pops up. Do we really want to leave them a day (presumably) when there are security updates? Or another week if there are upgrades? The lack of some continuous reminder is a regression. There are other issues with the *current state* of the new system which should be split out into new bugs - but those aren't regressions. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
It may be a better idea to give the user some sort of control over when the pop-up will occur. That way, those who want the defaults (1 day for security, 5 days for some others, etc...) will be able to leave it like that, and the rest of us will be able to get the minute-by-minute notifications we want after running a manual "apt-get update" :) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
So what I am understanding from everyone, is that they don't mind the pop-up BUT the fact that theres no after-reminder and/or after icon to let them know updates are available is the regression/issue? If this is the case then, i will switch it off of wishlist. There is a fine line between a regression and a wishlist, sorry if i couldn't distinguish this first. ** Tags added: regression-potential -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
@Dana: that would be another bug (please file a new bug report, if one doesn't exist yet). -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Another thing I've noticed: this auto-launching update manager doesn't even achive its stated purpose of having people install updates: Just yesterday, I booted a drive I hadn't booted in 5 weeks and update-manager, of course, auto-launched The only problem: it didn't update the PACKAGE CACHE first... so it was showing... 5-WEEK OLD updates! That strikes me as rather stupid. I had to manually hit "Check", and only then did it show recent updates. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 22:35 +, Jan Claeys wrote: > According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance "Wishlist" should > be used for "a request to add a new feature to one of the programs in > Ubuntu". > > This bug is about a regression, not about a new feature. I absolutely agree that this is a regression. I had update-manager pop up right in front of all of my work today out of nowhere. How much more annoying can this new UI design get? -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance "Wishlist" should be used for "a request to add a new feature to one of the programs in Ubuntu". This bug is about a regression, not about a new feature. (I personally think it should be marked at least "Medium", as it impacts a core application, but I'll leave it to more experienced people to decide how serious it is.) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Although I understand the high importance of this bug, this is really a wishlist bug as the removal of update notifier is what has been planned and you are requesting that it be reversed. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu) Importance: High => Wishlist -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I was wondering why I wasn't notified of updates... no update-notifier?! that sucks!!! :-S *I want my notifier back* and I really don't care about libnotify popups (tough was good)... a icon it's fine by me please :-D -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I don't get it. How else am I being informed that updates are pending? -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
This is seriously annoying. I fully agree that the notification area icon is just not obvious for most users, and I fully support popping up update-manager once a week to grab the attention of those users who haven't updated their system yet. However, as someone who likes to install updates as soon as they arrive (for example, for testing *-proposed packages), the lack of notification area icon is annoying at best and a severe usability regression at worst. In Intrepid, I would be automatically notified of the updates when they arrived, prompting me to update. In Jaunty though, I have to keep manually opening update-manager every day to check for updates, whereas this was not necessary before. When Jaunty becomes stable, I'm going to find myself doing this manual checking every day when there might only be updates once a week or so, which is a real waste of time. I think the notification area icon should remain, but still pop up update-manager once a week for those users who don't notice the icon. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
We need a method for notification of updates and we have a notification area. I don't really understand the issue. I can agree applications clutter the notification area but surely this is a real notification. I ended up here as I want passive update notification and thought it was broken. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
since discussion on the devel ML tended to a possibility of having UN back, i'm setting this to NEW. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu) Status: Invalid => New -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
As my previous comment may sound more aggressive than it is, let me explain this a bit better. Quoting from above "But seriously, we did not design this behavior yesterday on the back of a napkin. We discussed it publicly at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in December." And quoting from the top "Specific messages worth reading are: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027434.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027451.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027454.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027437.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027445.html"; None of these messages contains ubuntu-devel-discuss as the target. That wouldn't probably suffice anyway. In my opinion, ubuntu is a successful distribution because of the effort of the community in publicising it. If it looses community consensus it may die. The effort of people is not for free: big changes should be discussed with the active community in my opinion, not just with the developers. That's my 2 cents, and what I would really like to see. I contributed a lot of my free time in the past but I am really getting "pissed off" by serious regressions not being taken care of because changes have to be introduced, and by disruptive changes which most users won't like, that "can not be reverted because we are too late in the development cycle, and have already been discussed in " More public discussion, and even being keen to change "ubuntu's mind" on some topics, would help a lot in the relationships between the community and ubuntu itself. No aggressive tone intended here. Ubuntu is still yours more than mine, and if I really wanted to I could even fork it. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
"Instead, Update Manager should open automatically, unfocused and in the background. (When opened manually, Update Manager should still open focused and frontmost as usual.) " So a pop-under is a solution for system upgrades? It seems to me rather a way to emulate one of the most annoying web spamming techniques on the desktop. Changes like these should have a broader discussion IMHO. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Alan, You like the new OSD? So do I. It is very nice, and that is not the problem. But do you like the lack of a persistent notification for the presence of a condition, and feel that launching the handling application, in this case the update manager, is the correct solution? The bug isn't the new OSD. The bug is the lack of a persistent notification for the available updates condition. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
** Tags added: dxteam notifications -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
2009/2/24 Noel J. Bergman : > Actually, I'm still trying to find anyone who likes the > change. You now found one. I like it. It's _unfinished_ and buggy (I have reported a couple of bugs to help in that regard), but I like the concept and look forward to it being finished and polished. I realise this is just a bug report, and as such we should be focusing on _bugs_ not necessarily opinionated rants. I just wanted you to know there _are_ people out there who like it. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
> Curses, our secret plan has been uncovered! Canonical is indeed trying to > degrade Ubuntu, > make it less secure, and drive average business and personal users away. No one has said that there is any malicious intent. That's just a defensive reaction on your part. But nor do we like the direction that you have taken with this change. > We discussed it publicly at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in December Yes, I was there. Oh wait, no I wasn't. Nor was more than an insignificant fraction of the Ubuntu community. Most of us first got wind of the change when it dropped in our laps, and now we're letting you know how we feel about it. And it isn't just one person complaining. Actually, I'm still trying to find anyone who likes the change. In the e-mail chain, people disagreed with you. In this bug report, we disagree with you. And I certainly do not consider it appropriate for you to mark the report as invalid, anymore than it would be a generally acceptable policy for a reporter to mark their own bug as confirmed. So now lets get away from the irrelevant defensive nonsense and talk about the problem: > It's part of a long-term plan to clean up the notification area > Of course the new behavior is a bit rough around the edges, but the problems > are fixable. The first is fine, and the second is a good starting point for your admission. The unfocused window solution is NOT the desired solution for that "third kind" of notification as C Cooke classified it. And I really don't care what technology is used to get it. The end result is what matters, and I'm sure that a suitable solution can be found. After all, it is all 1's and 0's in the end. But we want some sort of persistent, dynamic, notice. One way of looking at it is that this is a condition, not an event. it may be set & cleared by events, but it is not an event - it is a persistent condition. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
@C. Cooke: that would need to be (at least) 24h for security updates, as many people delay installing fixes until the beginning or end of a day, to minimize the interruptions... @Matthew Paul Thomas: one problem with the "popup update-manager" method is that it is not persistent. If I close that window (which I do because I don't want to install them now and it pollutes the "window list"), there is no (permanent) reminder for the updates anymore. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
(bear with me on this one; I'm stuck at home ill, so this may be less coherent than would be ideal) I can think of a few use-cases where the new implementation may/will cause problems as it's currently laid out: Problems relating to the window being opened for you: 1) If it appears at the bottom of the Z-buffer, it might be behind a long-running application such as Firefox. It may even appear behind a long-running application on a virtual desktop the user doesn't visit often; it's entirely possible that the window won't be noticed for days or weeks. 2) If it appears at the top of the Z-buffer, it will be distracting to the user; it's supposed to appear unfocussed, but what if the user has focus-follows-mouse? Will the window appear under the cursor, steal focus and (if the user happens to be typing at that moment) immediately start updating packages? 3) There's no single place to look to know you're up-to-date. In fact, for the average user, there will be no simple way to know they're up to date at all. It seems to be a "harsher" user interface - and thus it fails to follow the principle of least astonishment. (windows appearing when you don't expect them is astonishing; *notifications* appearing when you don't expect them is... expected!) Some thoughts on mitigation: 1) could be mitigated partially by making the window appear on all workspaces. 2) open at the bottom of the Z-buffer. Any other solution is still going to cause unwelcome astonishment sometime, with some (common) sets of options. Some thoughts that might, possibly, help: The new design specifies two different concepts of notification: "informational" and "demanding": Informational notification is ephemeral and can vanish quickly; it should never need a response. "demanding" notifications must have a response within a short time limit, so they pop up a window grabbing attention. I have to say, I very much like that... but I can see a third class of notifications that are not covered at all. "Patient" ones: something that needs a response but has a very long time limit. It seems that we're trying to force all notifications of this type into one of the other two, and this doesn't work well in all cases - such as this one. Icons in the taskbar *without* a bubble would be perfect for this: They call attention, but they don't demand it *now*. Based on some logic, they can be converted into a "demanding" notification later, if there's a good opportunity or a time limit is approaching. What would be really nice for the specific example of the update notifier is this: 1) When there's any update, assign a "passive" time limit (~30 minutes for security updates, ~2 weeks for upgrades). Pop up an icon in the taskbar that will launch or focus update-manager. Do *NOT* notify in any other way; hover text for the icon should be a nice, frendly explanation of what's up. 2) automatically convert to a demanding notification on login or (if the passive time limit is more than half used) when the system has been idle for some sane pre-determined time - 5 minutes, say. Having the window ready when you come *back* to the computer is much less astonishing than having it suddenly break your workflow. 3) if the passive time limit expires, convert to a demanding notification. (Now I re-read this, I realise this is too long and details for this place; I'm posting it so I don't lose it but I'll copy it elsewhere as soon as I can) -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Curses, our secret plan has been uncovered! Canonical is indeed trying to degrade Ubuntu, make it less secure, and drive average business and personal users away. The orange star icon was a paragon of obviousness and clickability, so it just had to go. But seriously, we did not design this behavior yesterday on the back of a napkin. We discussed it publicly at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in December. It's part of a long-term plan to clean up the notification area, and in particular to stop using it for things that it cannot actually recognizably notify people of. If you have learned to both notice and recognize the orange star icon, then I'm sorry that skill will no longer be required, but we think making update installation more obvious will make Ubuntu more secure for more people. Of course the new behavior is a bit rough around the edges, but the problems are fixable. As I write this, the auto-opening interval is being changed (now that we know it works) from two days to seven. Compiz needs fixing so that when windows open unfocused (as Update Manager does when it opens automatically) they're in the background too. And any patches to reduce Update Manager's memory footprint are more than welcome. ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu) Status: Confirmed => Invalid -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Also it goes against the idea you not being able to run 2+ apt/dpkg sessions. Since it is opening for me during dist-upgrade (it may be every 2 days but i do updates everyday so i dont notice if it happens more so. I that idea it would not be possible for it to open let alone run update as it is doing upon opening. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
One thing people didnt notice or left out of bug. It only happens when using dist-upgrade interminal upgrade doesnt trigger u-d to open. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
Further reading for people: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ which links to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD And I do like the new OSD. I just disagree with removing the presence of a notification icon, which is a persistent notice of some event or condition, and certainly disagree with the proposed behavior of launching the update manager. -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG
I am confirming this bug report. I too feel that removing the update- notifier is more a move in the direction of degrading Ubuntu. At least with the update-notifier-icon, I made the decision to install the updates. If the update-manager simply opens, I will have to continue with the work I am doing. Since I have several applications that run when my system starts, having update-manager think I want to run it is not really a desired function. I normally run my updates when I am not busy. This appears to be one more thing getting in the way of productive work. I have to wonder how many businesses are going to decide that is just one more thing in the way. Doesn't that give the average business and personal user one more reason to quit using Ubuntu? ** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => High Status: New => Confirmed -- [Jaunty] Removal of Update Notifier is WRONG https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
