[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
It is really pretty trivial to add aptitude back if you want it - 'apt- get install aptitude' is not hard for those who can handle aptitude in the first place. Also, the mention of the server installation shows that whoever said it hadn't actually checked the maverick server installation - it's still installed by default on servers (due to its optional use for interactive package selection during server installations). Regarding upgrades, aptitude has a different dependency resolver which handles things quite differently from apt-get, and the fact is that we simply do not routinely test that dependency resolver. I'd rather encourage people to report dependency resolution problems in the tools that we use by default (apt-get, update-manager, the release upgrader) rather than retaining and encouraging the use of a forked toolset. The base system is constantly tight on space, and everyone wants a piece of that space. I'm afraid we're going to have to continue to be pretty brutal about what we include there. But, as mentioned, aptitude is of course not being removed from the Ubuntu repository as a whole. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
fixed links in bug description ** Description changed: Binary package hint: aptitude It has come to our attention that the developers want remove aptitude from the base installation again. Most of us that run a testing version use aptitude safe-upgrade, in order to not break the installation when upgrading new packages, especially when we've been notified of new packages that could cause severe breakage. I find aptitude with it's options is a very useful tool during testing, removing it will make the job a lot harder. NOTES ON THE DECISION (This is based on a conversation with Colin Watson on IRC and the references given) The initial rationale is basically size; approximately 2MB (which in the scope of things are very precious on the liveCD) will be gained by removing tasksel and aptitude. The initial reason why aptitude was included in ubuntu was that the desktop installer (ubiquity) depended on it, but now the desktop installer has been rewritten to not require it unless in particular cases, and hence it goes. The alternate install CD will still install aptitude and tasksel, since the debian-installer which is used in installation requires it. Likewise the server install of ubuntu will still include it (presumably also since it uses debian-installer) - This was part of the "Maverick Spring Cleaning" which was discussed during UDS-M and is specified here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubu...pring-cleaning + This was part of the "Maverick Spring Cleaning" which was discussed during UDS-M and is specified here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-spring-cleaning As "Install tasksel and aptitude dynamically" - More info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsT...SpringCleaning + More info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/MaverickSpringCleaning "We could substantially reduce the size of the minimal seed by installing tasksel and aptitude dynamically, so that we don't end up with them on live-installed systems. We will still need to keep tasksel in the server seed." ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 10.10 Package: aptitude 0.4.11.11-1ubuntu10 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.35-2.3-generic 2.6.35-rc2 Uname: Linux 2.6.35-2-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia Architecture: amd64 Date: Thu Jun 10 09:52:34 2010 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS "Lucid Lynx" - Release amd64 (20100429) ProcEnviron: PATH=(custom, no user) LANG=en_CA.utf8 SHELL=/bin/bash SourcePackage: aptitude -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I use aptitude ALOT, especially to uninstall things. And from my experince it's MUCH better to solve dependices than apt-get, and at fixing broken packages. Also Debians, documenation prefers aptitude over apt-get, and I belive they have a good reasor for this. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian- reference/ch02.en.html#_basic_package_management_operations_with_commandline Personally I can't belive such a great tool as aptiude should be deleted just to save a few MBs... -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
It should remain included in the base install, since aptitude has the value when things go wrong. If your system gets broken beyond just fixing a configuration file, when you loose your comfy graphical X-server, ... then aptitude's value is needed. And you (as a user for who fixing a broken system isn't trivial, or as the person who needs to fix it for someone else) can actually use it since it's already present. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
cariboo907 wrote > I find aptitude with it's options is a very useful tool during testing, removing it will make the job a lot harder. Then just install it, it's not like it's been removed from the repo's The question is not whether aptitude has value (certainly does), but whether it needs to be on the base install (live cd Have not yet seen any reasons presented as to why it needs to be included. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I find aptitude absolute essential. +1 for keeping aptitude -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
+1 for keeping aptitude. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
Stephan, there are DVD installers available. And the 700MB CD-size should never be knocked, as there are still quite a number of us who still depend on it. In the meantime, there is a discussion about this change in the development ML, you can read it here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives /ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-June/011659.html Regards -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I also find aptitude more useful than apt-get in many cases and would not want to see it omitted. If 2 MB of space on the image is a concern, there are other ways to make room: remove some wallpapers and other non-functional stuff on the Live- CD. Also, at this point in time, one should start to consider if the limitation to the 700MB CD-size isn't a bit archaic. Most any computer nowadays has DVD capability and many "Live CDs" get copied to USB-sticks anyway. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
Am I the only one that finds apt-cache search too limited? Aptitude has search patterns http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I'll be the bad guy here, and say that I +1 to aptitude's removal. Most, if not all things you can do in aptitude can be done in apt-get, apt-cache and dpkg, and at a quicker execution speed too. Someone mentioned show and search. Why not use the below two instead? apt-cache show pkg apt-cache search regex -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
This isn't a bug in aptitude but in the ubuntu meta packages where the change happened. ** Package changed: aptitude (Ubuntu) => ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) ** Changed in: ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) Status: New => Confirmed -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
Please reconsider the decision to remove aptitude from the base install. CLI tools are important for the desktop, as well as a server, and we (Ubuntu desktop users) have few enough of them installed by default as it is. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I use aptitude (the ncurses interface) extensively when creating a minimal install from a command-line version. I especially like the "no recommends" option, which allows me to pick and choose components when building up a system. apt-get requires me to know the exact name of a package ahead of time, and often wants to install a whole lot of other stuff that I don't want. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
Updated description with references to the decision. ** Description changed: Binary package hint: aptitude It has come to our attention that the developers want remove aptitude from the base installation again. Most of us that run a testing version use aptitude safe-upgrade, in order to not break the installation when upgrading new packages, especially when we've been notified of new packages that could cause severe breakage. I find aptitude with it's options is a very useful tool during testing, removing it will make the job a lot harder. + + NOTES ON THE DECISION + (This is based on a conversation with Colin Watson on IRC and the references given) + The initial rationale is basically size; approximately 2MB (which in the scope of things are very precious on the liveCD) will be gained by removing tasksel and aptitude. + + The initial reason why aptitude was included in ubuntu was that the + desktop installer (ubiquity) depended on it, but now the desktop + installer has been rewritten to not require it unless in particular + cases, and hence it goes. + + The alternate install CD will still install aptitude and tasksel, since + the debian-installer which is used in installation requires it. + + Likewise the server install of ubuntu will still include it (presumably + also since it uses debian-installer) + + This was part of the "Maverick Spring Cleaning" which was discussed during UDS-M and is specified here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubu...pring-cleaning + As "Install tasksel and aptitude dynamically" + + More info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsT...SpringCleaning + "We could substantially reduce the size of the minimal seed by installing tasksel and aptitude dynamically, so that we don't end up with them on live-installed systems. We will still need to keep tasksel in the server seed." ProblemType: Bug DistroRelease: Ubuntu 10.10 Package: aptitude 0.4.11.11-1ubuntu10 ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.35-2.3-generic 2.6.35-rc2 Uname: Linux 2.6.35-2-generic x86_64 NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia Architecture: amd64 Date: Thu Jun 10 09:52:34 2010 EcryptfsInUse: Yes InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS "Lucid Lynx" - Release amd64 (20100429) ProcEnviron: - PATH=(custom, no user) - LANG=en_CA.utf8 - SHELL=/bin/bash + PATH=(custom, no user) + LANG=en_CA.utf8 + SHELL=/bin/bash SourcePackage: aptitude -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
aptitude is the only package manager I use, 99% of the time. Please keep it in the base installation. Thank you. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
I use Aptitude and all its functions, including "show", "search", etc. Please include it back in the tool set. There's a lot of features that Aptitude brings that just can't be replaced! -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
This is a tool that is not only handy in testing, there are times when it is just the best thing for the job and those are times when it may be real hard to get it due to malfunctions in other package tools. We have several partitioners, sfdisk is I would say little used. It would be easy to install, for those who even know about it, using aptitude. -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 592336] Re: Removal of aptitude from base installation
** Attachment added: "Dependencies.txt" http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50081925/Dependencies.txt -- Removal of aptitude from base installation https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/592336 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
