Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 > ( > attempting to post this comment using the website tells me: > > Not Found > > The requested URL /ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+addcomment > was not found on this server. > ) Thats due to the slashdot-effect mitigation that they put in. (They re- directed the bug to a static html page.) -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 > Why has this been made a dup of a Fix Committed bug, when the problem is clearly still valid. It seems that there are some at Ubuntu who feel it is more important to make the bug statistics look good than it is to actually fix problems. Several bugs I've raised have been closed rather than fixed. ( attempting to post this comment using the website tells me: Not Found The requested URL /ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+addcomment was not found on this server. ) -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 It's worth noting that even without laptop_mode some drives are just really bad at this. I had a Samsung 80GB drive that under any OS would park & spin down fairly aggressivly, but as soon as *ANY* power saving was enabled on the drive it would always spin down in 5 seconds (Unsurprisingly it died in less then 8 months, quick even for my average of ~ 1 year). The only real potential solution is to work out a per model scale factor, but just upping the default might mask it enough to be effective. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 - "Neil Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 > > ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 17216 >Hard drive spindown should be configurable > > -- > default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct > subscriber > of the bug. Hi, Why has this been made a dup of a Fix Committed bug, when the problem is clearly still valid. IMHO, Ubuntu should override the insane hardware defaults, or find out why Ubuntu is writing to the disk every 30 seconds, to cause discs to spin down & then back up again. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216 ** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 17216 Hard drive spindown should be configurable -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Can NOT confirm this on my laptop. product: HP Compaq nc6120 (PN936AV) Device Model: FUJITSU MHV2080AH PL 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 099 099 000Old_age Always - 2204 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 024Pre-fail Always - 8589934592000 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 091 047Pre-fail Always - 2615 9 Power_On_Seconds0x0032 095 095 000Old_age Always - 2735h+51m+58s 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 1457 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 40 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 4311 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000Old_age Always - 1075 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 457900032 203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x0002 100 100 000Old_age Always - 2628540432554 -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
** Description changed: - When switching to battery power, /etc/acpi/power.sh issues the command - hdparm -B 1 to all block devices. This leads to extremely frequent load - cycles. For example, my new thinkpad has already done well over 7000 - load cycles -- in only 100 hours. That's at least one unloading per - minute. Googling for "load unload cycles notebook OR laptop" shows that - most laptop drives handle up to 600,000 such cycles. As these values - clearly show, this issue is of high importance and should be fixed - sooner rather than later. + It is claimed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of + load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. + + If laptop mode is enabled (which is NOT the default), then when + switching to battery power, /etc/acpi/power.sh issues the command hdparm + -B 1 to set IDE and SCSI disks to power saving mode, so enabling laptop + mode may be related to this observation. + + For example, my new thinkpad has already done well over 7000 load cycles + -- in only 100 hours. That's at least one unloading per minute. Googling + for "load unload cycles notebook OR laptop" shows that most laptop + drives handle up to 600,000 such cycles. Please see for yourself how often your drive is load cycling: smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda (This command is for an SATA drive; you'll need to install the smartmontools package first.) See also http://paul.luon.net/journal/hacking/BrokenHDDs.html for a rather dramatic account of the effects the current default values may have. Just in case the load/unload timeout depends on the specific laptop or disk model, here are my system specifications: ThinkPad Z60m & Hitachi HTS541080G9SA00 disk (80GB) -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
But note also that with how often Ubuntu touches the disk, it will quite simply never park the heads, even if it is inactive. Actually, the aggressive APM isn't really the issue (although it will, obviously, affect the live to some extent), it's more that Ubuntu touches the HD on a regular basis, thus making any park pointless -- and when combined with aggressive parking on the drive, this sends the park count through the roof. On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 20:51 +, Guy Van Sanden wrote: > guys, please read the follow up to that article. Ubuntu only changes this > setting when laptop_mode is on, which it isn't by default. > If laptop mode is off, but it is cycling that often, then it is caused by the > default setting in your BIOS > -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
guys, please read the follow up to that article. Ubuntu only changes this setting when laptop_mode is on, which it isn't by default. If laptop mode is off, but it is cycling that often, then it is caused by the default setting in your BIOS -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
225 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 097 097 000Old_age Always - 33260 and thats in a few weeks so I think thats confirmed in gutsy. Please make this high priority, I don't want to have to get a new hard drive every year! -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I can confirm this bug on my Thinkpad T60 purchased spring of 2007. === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 series Device Model: HTS541080G9SA00 Serial Number:MPBDL0XNHV95ZG Firmware Version: MB4IC65R User Capacity:80,026,361,856 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 1 Local Time is:Tue Oct 30 11:28:13 2007 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 080 080 000Old_age Always - 00698 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 094 094 000Old_age Always - 2840 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 330 -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Some data: Thinkpad z61t, TOSHIBA MK1032GSX, Firmware Revision: AS026E Bought in September 2006 (it is 13 months old now), used daily with Feisty Beta, Feisty, Gutsy. Load_Cycle_Count 90690 Power_On_Hours 3254 I estimate this is true. Power_Cycle_Count 850 Advanced power management level: unknown setting (0x0080) -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have noatime enabled for all mounted filesystems, and it does not make the slightest difference for the load cycle count. So, while I agree that the disk activity should be tracked down, atime does not look to be the (only) culprit. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I didn't see atime mentioned on the wiki page. Logging in fails for me right now (takes forever), so perhaps somebody else could add this info: If you're looking for something that definitely does cause disk activity every 30 seconds, it's atime updates. When enabled (which they are by default), access times are updated for all file system _reads_ (even from the file system cache), and they are flushed very soon after (30 seconds AFAIK). If the problem really is that something is accessing the disk very often, atime is at least one of the most likely culprits. Mounting all filesystems noatime (or at least relatime) could make a big difference. Brian Visel wrote: > I'm 99% sure that the problem lies not (so much) in the aggressive APM, > but in the combination of the aggressive APM and some spurious constant > disk activity. If the disk activity weren't there, it wouldn't be so > much of an issue, and if the APM weren't so aggressive, it wouldn't be > so much of an issue. I'll notate this on the wiki. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I'm 99% sure that the problem lies not (so much) in the aggressive APM, but in the combination of the aggressive APM and some spurious constant disk activity. If the disk activity weren't there, it wouldn't be so much of an issue, and if the APM weren't so aggressive, it wouldn't be so much of an issue. I'll notate this on the wiki. -b On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 03:08 +, dAniel hAhler wrote: > I've tried to summarize the issue(s) found here in a wiki page. I think it's > easier to handle solutions for this over there: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielHahler/Bug59695 > > Another option might be to create a new bug from scratch and duplicate > this one, but I think for now the wiki is the best thing to do. > > Please feel free to edit/add to the page. > (I'm not affected by this issue myself and am uncertain how to attack it.) > -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I've tried to summarize the issue(s) found here in a wiki page. I think it's easier to handle solutions for this over there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielHahler/Bug59695 Another option might be to create a new bug from scratch and duplicate this one, but I think for now the wiki is the best thing to do. Please feel free to edit/add to the page. (I'm not affected by this issue myself and am uncertain how to attack it.) -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Could part of the problem, the frequest disk writes, have anything to do with tracker? What happens when you do a "killall trackerd"? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
No wonder this has had no attention, it's impossible to glean anything from this ridiculous number of comments. I have no choice but to unsubscribe. I do however ask that people not comment on this further unless absolutely necessary. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Well, regarding the System I mentioned before (Latitude C-840 with Hitachi travelstar Dk23EA-30) That was completly unresponsive to hdparm settings I can now confirm that under Windows 2000 the load unload cycles in this equipment are not eliminated but greatly diminished. So may be Ubuntu is not causing this behavior but there seems to be something in Ubuntu that is exacerbating the problem to where it becomes unbearable. Since I have not been ablo to find a workaround It seems that I will have to forget Ubuntu as a workable alternative for the time being. I really hope this is given the attention it deserves and solved. I am very dissapointed that the bug is still listed in the whislist category. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Just some more reporting about this issue: - The command "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda" shows this line about APM: Advanced power management level: unknown setting (0x80fe) The 0xfe byte is the 254 value I set whith the -B command in hexadecimal, but i do not understand the 0x80 byte and why it tells "unknown setting". - The command " sudo smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda" shows also other values, some of them very high and incrementing: Raw_Read_Error_Rate, Seek_Error_Rate, Unknown_Attribute (with ID# 190), Hardware_ECC_Recovered Reading in internet I found not so clear info about them; for example, the Raw_Read_Error_Rate here says lower is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Monitoring%2C_Analysis%2C_and_Reporting_Technology while here (linked from the above wikipedia page) it says the opposite: http://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/smart-attributes/raw-read-error-rate.html how can we have more complete information about these parameters? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Wolfrichi: I am afraid that hdparm -B 254 or 255 do not work for every laptop. I have a Dell latitude c840 with a Hitachi travelstar DK23EA-30 that is completly unresponsive to any hdparm -B setting I have tried. It doesn't even allow me to change default APM levels with the Hitachi feature tool boot disk. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@keatliang2005 I have summarized the hdparm workaround here, should work for all notebooks, not only on the NX6325: http://vale.homelinux.net/wordpress/?p=199 -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
It does not matter that the bug is getting confirmed multiple times. Better getting lots of "me too"s than the bugsquad having to find and mark hundreds of duplicate reports. To whomever is triaging / working on this one, (if anyone is working on this bug), what do you want to happen next? Do you need more information? If not, is there a developer who is willing to take charge of this bug? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
This is getting ridiculous, this is the 149th comment. Please refrain from discussing this bug or "confirming" it, it has been confirmed enough. Leave all discussions to the forums, not a bug report. Don't ask other "me too" people questions here. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have a HP Compaq nx6325 laptop and my Hitachi HTS541080G9SA00 hard drive has 94066 load/unload cycles after 11 months of using Ubuntu with it. Don't blame this bug on the BIOS - every ordinary user will tell you that Windows didn't hurt their hard disk and it is Ubuntu that killed it. That's why this bug's priority should be marked at least as high. Also try to find similar bugs in other linux distributions, or even file them if they suffer from similar problem. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I get numbers similar to karlbowden on an Asus G1S-A1 laptop with AC connected, for a Hitachi HTS541616J9SA00. After 3 months of use the load cycle count is already up to 65,000, so I agree that the bug should be marked as critical. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Paval: Well Measuring 10 mins at a time, all measured with the ac adaptor connected. Straight after boot: 40 / 10min hdparm -B255 /dev/sda: 40 / 10min hdparm -B254 /dev/sda: 0 / 10min -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I can confirm this on an Acer Aspire 1642 WLMi. I got about 80 to 100 cycles per hour. This bug should be "critical" !!! I tried with Archlinux... Results : 1 cycle per hour. Oo -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have the same problem with my laptop drive. === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: ST9160821AS Serial Number:5MA0NKXS Firmware Version: 3.ALB User Capacity:160,041,885,696 bytes ... 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 052 052 000Old_age Always - 96509 Laptop is 5,5 months old, I guess that's a spindown of once every 30 seconds. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I tested my laptop again with Windows XP and got really different result this time, Windows just does a Load_Cycle_Count each 3 minutes. I don't know why it's different now but here it seems that yes, ubuntu does a Load_Cycle_Count very more oftenly than Windows. More, Ubuntu still get around 1 Load Cycle per minute when the laptop has been booted while it was plugged ( not on battery ). Is that bad? According to the fact that a laptop maximum SMART attribute is 90, I would say that yes.. something is probably wrong. However, my Desktop Dell PC still doesn't get a Load_Cycle_Count in one hour, that seems completely normal. So the problem doesn't appear in any PC. Is there a HardDrive expert who would be able to confirm if the ubuntu behavior is or isn't correct? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Response to Saivann Carignan : the exact value is 870009 I noticed that the rate was around 1 per minute before stopping it by editiing hdparm.conf. Checking : the laptop was bought beginning of 2006. It is always up or so. 870009 at the rate of 1 per minute (1140 per day) means an uptime of 600 days. Is seems to be coherent with its age. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Guy Widloecher : Can you calculate how many Load Cycle Count you have within one minute and copy it there? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I confirm on 2 DELL laptops, the 1st one 18 months old with Load_Cycle_Count around 90, the 2nd one 1 month old with 25000. I just applied the hdparm.conf workaround as explained several time above. This issue in "Wishlist" is inapproprate. It should be considered as "high" or "critical". -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I would like to notice that my laptop does have a Power_Cycle_Count near to 1 per minute on Linux, but also on Windows, I don't see any difference.. And I have a desktop computer which seems to have a Power_Cycle_Count smaller than 1 per hour. I don't know if this problem really affects some computers which suffer from bad detection, but it's not my case. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Blue wrote: >> Now, regarding the "insane" -S4 setting for laptop mode: this setting is >> intended for battery mode only, > >But it gets activated for desktop where battery status cannot be > determined,too. And this is bad. ACK, definitely. > Also, I don't find smart to try to > bring down the disk every 20 seconds because it is very likely that you > will have to respin it very, very soon later because of user activity or > system activity (there are a lot of files that are open and appended at, > varios logs, xsession-errors and so on). This is what laptop mode is for. It makes sure that writes _do not_ get sent to disk too often. Otherwise, you will get spindowns every 30 seconds because of atime updates. I routinely get multiple-minute spindowns. However, it shouldn't be used when you're not on battery. And then the disk shouldn't spin down, or even park its disk too often. The problem is that this does happen now, without the disk-activity-avoidance tweaks provided by laptop mode. Which is exactly when the -S4 setting is _not_ applied. So any criticism of the -S4 setting is not relevant to this bug report at all. > I'm not sure that we should bring the power management to extreme. > Please set -S4 to your laptop and let it idle. You will see that anyway\ > the hard disk stops and respins every 1..2 minutes. If you don't enable laptop mode, yes, then this happens. That's why -S4 should only be enabled in combination with laptop mode. >> Anyway, I think that any power management settings which make a drive >> load/unload once every minute *all the time* are doomed to kill drives. >> No need to blame this problem on the -S4, which is for a very special >> use case (on battery) only. > > Anyway, it seems that we have actually more problems. It is the > Load/Unload period -which we should address by putting a hdparm -B with > an appropriate value, and the spindown timeout which we should address > so that it really makes sense and does not creates a situation where > even let idle the system will get spinned/downspinned every minute or > two. If someone really needs that kind of power saving then he/she > should consider solid state disks which are more appropriate for > economy. My concern is that you seem to couple the -B value with the -S4 value here. The -S4 setting is only applied by laptop-mode-tools when two conditions are met: (a) laptop mode is enabled (which is not the case by default), and (b) the laptop is on battery (which is not mentioned anywhere in this bug report as being a condition of the problem occurring). AFAICT this bug report concerns the -B value, not the -S value. The -S4 value is very sensible when laptop mode is enabled. I wouldn't want you people starting to fiddle with it to fix this bug report when it, in fact, won't help, and will only throw away the baby with the bath water for laptop mode users. If you go and tweak the way -B settings are applied, be my guest. It seems to be the proper fix for this bug. But PLEASE don't mix it up with this setting, which isn't even applied in the situations that this bug report is about. > The third problem would be that on systems where the battery status > cannot be determined, to NOT activate extreme power management schemes, > because the system could be a desktop (with a drive not appropriate for > extreme power management) or a server... Definitely a problem. If Ubuntu only used the AC detection logic built into the upstream laptop-mode-tools package, which does work like that... > And finally, I am still not convinced that a spin/unspin every minute or > to is healthy on ANY drive. A definitive answer regarding how sane would > be each of the settings (for load/unload and spin/unspin) could only be > given by a manufacturer representative. And while I myself do not have > the strings to require (and get) an official answer, Canonical on the > other hand, as a big commercial entity could be able to get it so that > once and forever we can set some settings at boot that are safe > according to the manufacturer's guidelines. > Actually, I think that this would be the best (and first) step to be > taken by the Canonical/Ubuntu team should do to address an issue that is > getting fuzzier and more debated by the day. I think the typical drive specs could be a very good start in this respect, even without the connections of a company like Canonical. The reference number of 60 is a very nice aim. IMHO the question to drive manufacturers shouldn't be whether it is good to spin down drives more than they are specced for (it isn't), or whether it's OK to spin them down once a minute (it's OK as long as you stay within the specced limits). As far as I'm concerned, the big question is: which -B settings correspond to how many spindowns, so what would be a safe on-AC setting? My best guess for now is 254... -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 13:26 +, Bart Samwel wrote: > @Blue: > > Regarding this: "Even more, on the same manufacturer's site I found a > document where they say that respinning up a harddisk takes a lot of > power (the current peaks at about 1A) which means that if it's > needed/done too frequently it basically nulls any power economy you > would make by spinning the drive down in the first place..." I think it's a considerable effort due to the fact that they needed to create a special "technology" to make it easier on the drive :) Of course this depends on the drive speed too. > > I don't think this picture is entirely accurate. Typical drives draw ~1 > W while spinning without reading/writing, ~2 W while reading/writing, > and ~2-4 W while spinning up. The break-even point depends on the exact > values and the spin-up speed, although I guess that the total amount of > power required to spin up will be somewhat constant (i.e., a longer > spin-up will require a lower wattage). I did some measurements on this a > while ago, published here: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7539 > > You can see from the chart that spinning this particular drive down > *every* 12 seconds already yields significant savings. This suggests > that the break-even point lies somewhere around 6-8 seconds of spun down > time. > > Now, regarding the "insane" -S4 setting for laptop mode: this setting is > intended for battery mode only, But it gets activated for desktop where battery status cannot be determined,too. And this is bad. Also, I don't find smart to try to bring down the disk every 20 seconds because it is very likely that you will have to respin it very, very soon later because of user activity or system activity (there are a lot of files that are open and appended at, varios logs, xsession-errors and so on). I'm not sure that we should bring the power management to extreme. Please set -S4 to your laptop and let it idle. You will see that anyway the hard disk stops and respins every 1..2 minutes. > and only on laptop drives. Let's do the > math. Assuming you spin down the drive *only* while you're on battery > (which is when it matters), and you get one spindown every minute. > Assume the laptop lasts for 5 hours on every charge (a high estimate for > typical laptops) and the battery has a lifetime of 1200 discharge-charge > cycles (again, a high estimate). Then you have 1200 * 5 * 60 = 36 > cycles before you have to replace your first battery, and then you can > take another 800 cycles before the 60 spindown mark is reached. > > Alternatively, consider when you use battery mode for exactly 5 hours a > day, every day (a quite extreme situation). That's 300 spindowns per > day, or 300*365 = 109500 spindowns per year. That yields a lifetime of > 5.48 years (again assuming a lifetime rating of 60 spindowns). > > Note that one spindown per minute is a very high average, you'll almost > never hit that: usually, you have more extended periods of continuous > drive usage (when you're doing stuff), as well as more extended periods > of no drive usage (while you're reading stuff or editing a > document/file). Also, five hours of on-battery usage on average *every > day of the week* for years in a row is a very high estimate (I guess > most laptops get used fully for either 5 or 2 days a week, not seven). I > therefore think that -S4 is a pretty safe setting for on-battery usage. > Also, setting it higher will cut into your power savings very fast. Set > it to -S12 and your drive will probably not spin down very often at all, > which means that you can just as well turn laptop mode off. > > Anyway, I think that any power management settings which make a drive > load/unload once every minute *all the time* are doomed to kill drives. > No need to blame this problem on the -S4, which is for a very special > use case (on battery) only. Anyway, it seems that we have actually more problems. It is the Load/Unload period -which we should address by putting a hdparm -B with an appropriate value, and the spindown timeout which we should address so that it really makes sense and does not creates a situation where even let idle the system will get spinned/downspinned every minute or two. If someone really needs that kind of power saving then he/she should consider solid state disks which are more appropriate for economy. The third problem would be that on systems where the battery status cannot be determined, to NOT activate extreme power management schemes, because the system could be a desktop (with a drive not appropriate for extreme power management) or a server... And finally, I am still not convinced that a spin/unspin every minute or to is healthy on ANY drive. A definitive answer regarding how sane would be each of the settings (for load/unload and spin/unspin) could only be given by a manufacturer representative. And while I myself do not have the strings to require (
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
** Tags added: laptop smartctl smartmontools -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
This is not a forum, this is a bug tracker. Please do not comment unless you have to from now on. My Desktop doesn't have this issue. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I don't understand the argument that this is only "on batteries". I generally have my laptop plugged in, and my counts are increasing astronomically (the once every 5-6 seconds thing). It doesn't seem to make a difference whether it's plugged in or not. I'm switching back to Windows until this is fixed...if anybody wants any info from my system, let me know and i'll reboot into it. But i can't risk the harddrive. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
My notebook (Dell D620) is not running on batteries, although the Load_Cycle_Count of the hard disk increased by 420 within a day (it was running for only 6 hours during this period). My notebooks is 14 months old and the HD has a Load_Cycle_Count of 13570. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
You should backup all your data! It's not sure to crash but you should know that number is over the maximum taken from Hitachi specification about Load/Unload. It says that 300k cycles are bonded but they tested over 1000k loads (not cycles). Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Blue: Regarding this: "Even more, on the same manufacturer's site I found a document where they say that respinning up a harddisk takes a lot of power (the current peaks at about 1A) which means that if it's needed/done too frequently it basically nulls any power economy you would make by spinning the drive down in the first place..." I don't think this picture is entirely accurate. Typical drives draw ~1 W while spinning without reading/writing, ~2 W while reading/writing, and ~2-4 W while spinning up. The break-even point depends on the exact values and the spin-up speed, although I guess that the total amount of power required to spin up will be somewhat constant (i.e., a longer spin-up will require a lower wattage). I did some measurements on this a while ago, published here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7539 You can see from the chart that spinning this particular drive down *every* 12 seconds already yields significant savings. This suggests that the break-even point lies somewhere around 6-8 seconds of spun down time. Now, regarding the "insane" -S4 setting for laptop mode: this setting is intended for battery mode only, and only on laptop drives. Let's do the math. Assuming you spin down the drive *only* while you're on battery (which is when it matters), and you get one spindown every minute. Assume the laptop lasts for 5 hours on every charge (a high estimate for typical laptops) and the battery has a lifetime of 1200 discharge-charge cycles (again, a high estimate). Then you have 1200 * 5 * 60 = 36 cycles before you have to replace your first battery, and then you can take another 800 cycles before the 60 spindown mark is reached. Alternatively, consider when you use battery mode for exactly 5 hours a day, every day (a quite extreme situation). That's 300 spindowns per day, or 300*365 = 109500 spindowns per year. That yields a lifetime of 5.48 years (again assuming a lifetime rating of 60 spindowns). Note that one spindown per minute is a very high average, you'll almost never hit that: usually, you have more extended periods of continuous drive usage (when you're doing stuff), as well as more extended periods of no drive usage (while you're reading stuff or editing a document/file). Also, five hours of on-battery usage on average *every day of the week* for years in a row is a very high estimate (I guess most laptops get used fully for either 5 or 2 days a week, not seven). I therefore think that -S4 is a pretty safe setting for on-battery usage. Also, setting it higher will cut into your power savings very fast. Set it to -S12 and your drive will probably not spin down very often at all, which means that you can just as well turn laptop mode off. Anyway, I think that any power management settings which make a drive load/unload once every minute *all the time* are doomed to kill drives. No need to blame this problem on the -S4, which is for a very special use case (on battery) only. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
karlbowden: Have you tried one of these two commands? hdparm -B255 /dev/sda or hdparm -B254 /dev/sda You must try 255 or 254 because every disk wants another option to decrease amount of Load_Cycles. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
So, my HDD with 1230345 Load_Cycles_Count can die young? (in every moment I must be ready for his last... click?). Even with low Power_Cycle_Count, just because I use my Ubuntu running often 24/7? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have a 4 month (approx) old Dell XPS M1210 running Gutsy now. It has never run anything other than Ubuntu. 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 062 062 000Old_age Always - 386280 My biggest concern with this not being marked as critical is that I have changed EVERY setting in the bios and it still increases at 4 per minute. And there are no settings in the gnome power management preferences. If I do not at least get a standard control to reduce this rate I dont think I will have any choice but to keep trying distros until I find a more hdd friendly one. But then again, I have still not seen it do any damage to any old hard drives i've been running though. I'm happy enough adding in extra power management scripts as long as it dosent get interfered with on a apt-get upgrade. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
So in opensuse this behavior is possibly controlled by the pm-utils framework (http://en.opensuse.org/Pm-utils). I found only one file with hard disk related settings (/usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d/laptop-tools/. I'll attach it, but there is nothing to do with hdparm settings. Maybe opensuse the same way as fedora doesn't change BIOS defaults. Kernel version: 2.6.22.9-0.4-default, in Fedora it was something around 2.6.23, possibly 2.6.23.1-31.fc8 (I haven't use fedora anymore) ** Attachment added: "laptop-tools" http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10194072/laptop-tools -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
My harddrive started to slowly die when at a Load_Cycle_Count of 200.000 after 10 months of use (Feisty and a little bit of Gutsy). The reason I’m estimating to watch out for values above 90 per day is because it will guarantee that your Load_Cycle_Count is less than 100.000 in three years : 90 * 365 * 3 = 98550 Which almost guarantees that your harddrive won’t die during the first three years due to a high Load_Cycle_Count. I'm blogging about this bug at : http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com which is subscribed to planet.ubuntu.com -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Just to add some interesting facts to discusion: * my load/ unload count is at 141831 * my power on hours is 9, i was using linux for maybe 95% of time That means that my average load/unload count per hour was 12, i think that is normal, around one every 5 minutes. But when i checked yesterday i was averaging 3 loads/unloads per minute so I am pretty sure this bug has to do something whit gutsy or feisty. Just my two cents. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Pedro Martínez Juliá: there is a fedora-related discussion (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel- list/2007-October/msg02258.html) about this -- as of this (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel- list/2007-October/msg02260.html) it seems fedora doesn't change this setting no matter if you're plugged or not. I'll try to find some opensuse settings of this, but now i have no idea where to search. But opensuse seems to do no Load/Unload cycles except for at system boot. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I am very concerned about this issue. I use Ubuntu on my laptop as my primary OS and I work with it. Even if we all back up in case something happens with our hard drives, this issue is serious enough. I wouldn't use "wishlist" for something that breaks hardware, especially when it's been confirmed and this bug profile has been logged in Launchpad for over a year. I can't recommend my friends to install Ubuntu on their laptops knowing there's a bug like this. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Im on a DELL INSPIRON 6400 this my hard drive: Device Model: SAMSUNG HM120JI Serial Number:S0YPJ10P326665 Firmware Version: YF100-15 User Capacity:120,034,123,776 bytes ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0007 100 100 025Pre-fail Always - 2752 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 097 070 000Old_age Always - 47 225 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 094 094 000Old_age Always - 67448 ** Im using UbUNTU 7.10 Linux ubuntu 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Sun Oct 14 23:05:12 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux Hope this changes from whishlist to critical bug tnx -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
About the "criticals" value for Load/Unload Cycles, Momentus 7200.2 spec sheet only says "> 600,000" (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus_7200_2.pdf) So since I'm already at 5 after 2 months with this computer, I had to apply the hdparam -B254 parameter, and now the Load/Unload Cycles increases really slower than it used to. I also think that this bug should be marked as critical, since it is dangerous for the hardware part of the computer. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Hi, Please, can you post kernel versions and hdparm parameters used in init-scripts? Detailed information about hdparm calls during start-up and while changing power source in OpenSUSE and Fedora could be very interesting. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
As you can see that hdparm executions are related to laptop_mode, not directly to start-up. If Ubuntu can't identify your AC status is another bug, not related to "power.sh". Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I tried two distros: Fedora and openSUSE. I have a TOSHIBA MK8037GSX hard disk. In Fedora by default, there is something around 6 Load/Unload cycles per hour. In openSUSE, after a hour of an uptime there was only 1 Load/Unload!!! So, this looks like very ubuntu specific and should be worked out as soon as possible. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I already did that and I found that hdparm is executed a lot of times just during one boot process : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi- support/+bug/59695/comments/78 -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Init system calls hdparm script but my "hdparm.conf" had no-section. I've added one for adding "-B254". Using "rgrep -i *" in "/etc" can tell you a lot of things but if you want more, for example, change hdparm binary with a wrapper script that calls real hdparm and logs its execution (date >> /var/tmp/hdparm.log). Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I didn't find any execution of hdparm in the start-up scripts, How did you search ? Because in my case there are a FEW executions. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Hi, In your case (24x7), you should use a value for "-B" that can increase the life of your hard drive having a reasonable temperature. My hard drives tells (through smartctl) 41ºC and 13/51 for actual and min/max temperatures. I'm using "hdparm -B254" since yesterday because it reached 400k loads. I don't know any case of certain hard drive broker due to load/unload cycle but reading specifications I found that the drives can support about 300k loads and can effort a million loads without crashing but with no warranties. I didn't find any execution of hdparm in the start-up scripts, the problem should be in BIOS or kernel. The hard drive can have default configuration to get a balance between its capabilities (temperature, loads, spins, etc), this may be configured by BIOS in the POST or by the drive firmware in its reset. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Hi. Somethin from my smartctrl: 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0007 100 100 025Pre-fail Always - 2752 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 099 099 000Old_age Always - 1013 9 Power_On_Hours0x0032 099 099 000Old_age Always - 707090 12 Power_Cycle_Count0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 601 225 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000Old_age Always - 1230345 The hdd is Samsung HM-120JI, have 14 months. Often running 24/7. 1230345 > 600k like for me. Increase was high. Stoped with -B254, but temperature increased. What is more dangerous - high Load_Cycle_Count VS -B254, higher temperature and shock-temper on that setting? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Blue Parking does not stress the disc's surface but rather the head movement mechanics. Remember, parking must be fast enough to protect against imminent damage. (Consider for example HP's HDAPS technology.) Thus excessive load/unload cycles *are* stressful and *will* damage the drive. Why else would the manufacturers specify minimum values in their data sheets? Regards, Gilles -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I just found some manufacturer specs for my Disk: http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/53989D390D44D88F86256D1F0058368D/$file/T7K60_sp2.0.pdf For the load/unload specs, see page 40f. It is specified to a minimum of 30 load/unload cycles, so I'm very near to EOL. My disk stats: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ./disk-stats -y PM-related Hard disk health: Load/Unload cycles : 270250 of 30 (90.08% of life) Power-Off retract (Emergency unload? : 27 of 2 (0.14% of life) Power-On cycles : 3582 Start/Stop (PM Spindown) count : 10427 of 30 (3.48% of life) Power-On hours : 6343 of 2 (31.71% of life) Temperatures during lifetime : 13 to 47, manufacturer limits: 5 to 55 (°C) Average Load/Unload cycles per hour : 42.606 I have written a little hackish script to generate this, it is attached for anyone feeling the urge to present their stats here, too. (needs smartctl) Ciao Martin ** Attachment added: "Little disk stats script." http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10187884/disk-stats -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Parking is not bad and should not have side effects. On a new system ( just a few days old) running another OS Load_Cycle_Count is 3317. This parking means just moving the heads away, it does not stress the disk in any way . The spindown/spinup however, does (and does not help save energy if it is done too quickly ) -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
749 times is not a lot of start/stop count but 600k is huge for parking. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Gilles, I think the root of the both evils is common :) On a desktop computer, spinning down and then spinning up the hard disk produced the same annoying "clank". If I had a newer and quieter hard drive on that machine I could have missed this problem ... (or at least realize it only later by the spinup delay).Because the noise I found it just about an hour after installing the new release on this machine :) I myself solved the problem by setting hdparm.conf and disabling apmd and acpid (unneeded on that machine). So I'm not affected by this problem any more myself. Now, we must make the difference between the following parameters : 1.Start/Stop Count and 2.Load/Unload Cycle Count The first counts how many times the hard drive entered sleep mode OR was fully stopped/powered off. The second one counts the number of times the heads were parked in the landing area. You can get the heads to go to the landing area and keep the platters spinning, but you cannot spin down without parking the heads. So, wherever you spin down the drive both of those smart parameters are incremented. When the drive is just parked, only Load/Unload Cycle Count is incremented. While a lot of parking is not bad, a lot of start/stops are bad. The <> in the power management scripts that I'm pointing my finger at controlls the spinup/spindown and not just the parking of the heads. And the default timeout for that is not only uninspired, but potentially dangerous. This is what actually has the greatest potential to kill the drive prematurely. So, in your smartctl output look for a high start/stop count , not for a high load/unload count . These are the values for my laptop that still runs Dapper : 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0012 100 100 000Old_age Always - 749 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 386 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 036 036 000Old_age Always - 646281 The hard drive is only about 1 year old. I'm not worried about Load_Cycle_Count (which is way over 600k ). I would worry about a high Start_Stop_Count . -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
> I confirm this and more : same behaviour on a _desktop_ computer. This because on that desktop on_ac_power returns nonzero and the system thinks it's running on batteries. I don't think this is necessarily true (although I haven't looked at the script). on_ac_power is 255 on my desktop, but Load_Cycle_Count does not go up over time unless I explicitly set apm to a low value (otherwise it generally seems to be off.) *However*, there is periodic disk rumbling (3-4 times a minute) on my machine, which is what drew me to this bug in the first place. I've tried killing off all non-essential daemons, and still I get the same behaviour. Haven't tried single user mode yet, but that's my next test. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Blue Aren't there two slightly different but related problems? The first one is about a nearly inaudible clicking which happens when the heads are unloaded and which is the reason I filed this report (since it'd be killing my drive, slowly but inevitably). It doesn't cause any noticeable delays when the heads are loaded again. The second one is true spindown which causes annoying delays when the drive is spun up again. (And which also causes wear and tear on the mechanical parts of the drive.) Wouldn't that be bug 17216? Regards, Gilles -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
But it's said that a hard drive only supports around 600k Load cycles. I saw that Ubuntu puts "-B255" to disable APM but it stills do around 3-5 unloads/loads in a minute. With "-B254" it doesn't unload... Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Gilles Schintgen It's actually about spin down. I already proved ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695/comments/78 ) that hdparm is invoked with -S 4 which translates (see hdparm manpage) in "Set the *spindown* timeout for the drive to 20 seconds". This is the real problem and it's not caused by the drive firmware or the computer's BIOS. It's the operating system's scripts that call hdparm to set unrealistic spindown times. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Also affected by this bug. Like some other people, my problem is solved using a value -B254 instead of 255 (using a Dell Inspiron here). I think it's nonsense the tag 'Wishlist'. Opened a poll on the forums on this issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=135 -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
In order to help find all possible ways that the hard drive spindown time could be changed, I have attached the output of the following commands: sudo find /etc -type f | sudo xargs grep -i ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE > scripts-that-involve-laptop-mode-setting.txt sudo find /etc -type f | sudo xargs grep -i hdparm > scripts-that-use-hdparm.txt sudo find /etc -type f | sudo xargs grep -i laptop_mode > scripts-that-use-laptop-mode.txt sudo find /etc -type f | sudo xargs grep -i /etc/default/acpi-support > scripts-that-source-acpi-support.txt I will investigate each of the scripts listed in these files, and determine what changes each one makes, when it makes them, and under what conditions. I will report back, probably later today. However, since I don't have every package installed, these cannot possibly be full lists. I would recommend that you run the same commands on your own computer and see what files they turn up. ** Attachment added: "List of files with various key words in them." http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10186556/xscripts-that-do-stuff.txt -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I've just read through this bug, and a little experimentation led me to conclude that I had the same problem. Setting -B254 seems to solve it, although the hard drive temperature is now stable at 49 degrees, which is a bit higher than before. Noticeably on the comments, a number of people suggest that the importance of this bug should be higher than "Wishlist." (A sentiment that I have to agree with, if this is potentially damaging hardware). Can anyone justify why it should not be set any higher, or has it not been changed simply because no-one knows who should change it? -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@ Blue: As far as I know the Load_Cycle_Count (i.e. this bug) is all about head parking and not about spinning the drive down. And head parking definitely /is/ a problem since the manufacturers usually give a maximum of 300,000 or 600,000 cycles (depending on the drive or its year of construction) in their specifications. Gilles -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Hi! wolfchri schrieb: > @Martin Emrich: > > All my (laptop) systems run with the "noatime,nodiratime" parameter ion > /etc/fstab for all partitions. > > It makes no difference :-( It was not meant as a fix for the problem (I have noatime since a long time), but rather as an explaination for the disk not spinning down very often. The heads will nevertheless unload too often. > BTW I registered a blueprint to turn off atime on desktops as this is > completely braindead to have this on by default, as even Linus admits. Good Idea. I found the rant myself :) Martin -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@TDB "3) copy this file to 3 locations: /etc/acpi/suspend.d/ /etc/acpi/resume.d/ /etc/acpi/start.d/" I've copied it also to /etc/acpi/ac.d/ - this way it will also be executed when you plug in your power cord. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Pedro : just parking the heads and not spinning down the platter is not usually a problem. This is usually a good thing and helps minimize damage on the magnetic surface on shocks and vibrations to whick laptop computers are usually exposed to. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Kamil Páral : You are right that laptop disks are much more suitable for increased spin up/down cycles (with about 600k supported by seagate drives) . However, keep in mind that due to another bug added to this one, even desktop computers with desktop drives can end with this kind of settings, AND the 20 seconds idle set by ubuntu's scripts is WAY too small . It makes no sense, the user could just be reading something on the display - this is not idle time. Most likely after another minute he will do something else and the drive will have to be spinned up again. Besides the fact that spinning up takes more energy and nullifies the power saved by stopping the drive, the respin process takes another 4..5 seconds for the usual laptop drive (checked specs on WD for example), and this 4..5 seconds wait every few minutes is annoying for the user. I fully sustain the iddea of reducing power consumption, but let's do this in a way that really makes sense. Look what I found on WD's knowledge base regarding external hard disks (these are often targeted to laptop users, and also often use actual laptop drives in usb enclosures : "The initial power-on process is generally harder on the internal components of a hard drive than spinning for extended periods. However, Western Digital drives are designed to handle either scenario. Most users outgrow their drive before repeated turning on and off becomes a problem. Turning on the drive a few times per day is considered normal usage and should not pose any problems. If a drive is turned on and off excessively on a daily basis, this could affect the longevity of the hard drive’s components." This is from Western Digital's knowledge base. It refers to external drives, but these are often laptop drives in usb enclosures. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
So the information provided by SMART is not reliable as we've seen some abnormal values. How can we be certain that this drives failures are because of high "Load Cycles" values? OT For users of Windows you can use the "Power Booster" utility from Hitachi's site. With this you can disable power saving functions from inside Windows. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Hi, Worse, a few (or most) laptops have the default behavior of park heads about 3 or 4 times in a minute. This is fixed in my laptop with "hdparm" but using "-B254" instead of "-B255". I added a line in "hdparm.conf" for my disk with "apm = 254". Also changed "power.sh" to set "-B254" instead of "-B255". It's not needed to add anything for suspend/hibernate because "power.sh" will be called in resume. Regards, Pedro -- Pedro Martínez Juliá \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] )| WebLog: http://www.pedromj.com/blog / Página web: http://www.pedromj.com GoogleTalk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Socio HispaLinux #311 Usuario Linux #275438 - http://counter.li.org -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
@Martin Emrich: All my (laptop) systems run with the "noatime,nodiratime" parameter ion /etc/fstab for all partitions. It makes no difference :-( BTW I registered a blueprint to turn off atime on desktops as this is completely braindead to have this on by default, as even Linus admits. It costs up to 15% hard drive performance and has no use on a desktop system. More here (unfortunately somebody removed my link to the rant of Linus on the kernel mailing list about this atime madness in the blueprint :-) ) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/atimebehaviour -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I Forgot to mention that the value Power_On_Hours is equal to : Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always - 348644 but i have my latop for 1 year now and in one year we have 365 day of 24 h thus we have 8760 hours in a year according to Power_On_Hours value my laptop will be running for 39 years ! i believe it's impossible... anyway if the value Load_Cycle_Count is correct i have to backup all my data... -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have a Dell Insipron 9400 laptop with a 120gigs Samsung hd , I have this latop for 1 year now and the command : sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle return that : 225 Load_Cycle_Count0x0012 040 040 000Old_age Always - 613491 if I believe the previous comments my hd can die at all time... the previous fix with sdparm -B 255 /dev/sda doesn't work for me... i will try to active laptop-mode -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I'm using Windows and like to add few things (using a Hitachi Travelstar): 1) Many persons say they have X "Load Cycles" in Y "Years". I don't think that this means much unless you use it 24/7. You should say how many "Load Cycles" in how many "Hours". Using smartmontools is easy. Mine is: "Load Cycles" - 434211; Hours - 8027. Gives about 54 "Cycles" per "Hour". 2) So how many "Cycles" per "Hour" is "NORMAL"? And the workload? Does using for example Emule increases the "Load Cycles"? 3) The BIOS doesn't allow me change anything about power management. So the solution is to use the "Feature Tool" from Hitachi. This allow you to turn off "Power management". 4) What is "Power Cycle Count" and "Power-Off_Retract_Count" and "Reallocated_Event_Count"? Thank you! -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I just found this bugreport, and I took a look at my stats. My disk (60GB Travelstar 7K100) accumulated ca. 30 Load Cycle Counts over the last 3 Years. Applying Michaels settings decreased the growth rate massively. One idea why disks tend to sleep longer on a Windows System: NTFS does not have an atime record which is updated on every read operation. I routinely mount my partitions with "noatime", to let them sleep longer. And the Windows IO scheduler might by default keep disk writes cached longer, until a read operation has to wake up the disk anyways. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Blue, you have to distinguish between desktop disks and laptop disks. That's a completely different world. I have read a quite nice article, unfortunately only in czech http://www.root.cz/clanky/jak-na-uspavani- disku-v-linuxu/. It says, that desktop disks sustain about 40 000 spin ups. As opposed to laptop disk, which sustain 300 000 spin ups (600 000 according to words of some reports in here). As you can see, they are build with quite another purpose in mind. They are supposed to spin down/park heads very often, because it helps to survive all the shakes and movements you do with your laptop. I don't know what "good" setting is, but author of the article recommends 30sec delay to spin down as a good value. Further he counts that with hdd spinning up again every 10minutes it can live for 6 years for 24/7. Which is completely acceptable. What I am trying to say is, that I don't think hardware manufacturers are completely dumb and don't understand their job. They just chose to prefer disk safety to some of it's lifespan. The laptop mode setting might be a little harsh, I am not expert, but I don't consider them insane, when I see manufacturers defaults to be quite similar. So the problem is elsewhere than you think: Ubuntu either shouldn't allow laptop disks to go to sleep (bad option) or shouldn't wake them up immediately (good option, that's what I am trying to say). The second option is the Windows behaviour on two laptops I have tested. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
This problem seems even worse than I thought. I'm looking at the Load_Cycle_Count of my new harddrive. I see 17 spindown/spinup cycles within 12 minutes. The output of various : $ date $ sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count Sat Oct 27 11:17:28 CEST 2007 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 501 Sat Oct 27 11:24:46 CEST 2007 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 513 Sat Oct 27 11:28:59 CEST 2007 193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 200 200 000Old_age Always - 518 I turned of my laptop, booted it from ac before generating this output. To proof I'm not running in laptop mode I'm attaching the output from : $sudo laptop_mode status ** Attachment added: "$sudo laptop_mode status" http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10184423/laptop_mode_status.txt -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I have _very_ big doubts that any hard disk (even a laptop one) is supposed to spin down after only 20..30 seconds of idle time. If you can sustain this "it's supposed to be that way" with an official manufacturer specification or statement I would greatly apreciate it. As far as I know, repeated on-off cycles are more stressing to the device than simply letting it run. Searching about this spinning problem on Western Digital's site I found that some of their drives spin down after 10 minutes of inactivity. This is by far a better default that the one I found is set by the OS's power management scripts. If you look above at my experiment you will find that those scripts execute hdparm -S4 which translates in 20 SECONDS of inactivity before spinning down. This IS insane comparing with 10 minutes. Even more, on the same manufacturer's site I found a document where they say that respinning up a harddisk takes a lot of power (the current peaks at about 1A) which means that if it's needed/done too frequently it basically nulls any power economy you would make by spinning the drive down in the first place... WD knows this and this is why on some of their products the idle timeout is set to 10 minutes and not to 20 seconds. And I am very sure that the other manufacturers are also aware about this and will not set impossible timeouts that actually do not help them obtain a better medium power consumption. After all, the whole point is to spin the disk down when the probability that the disk will not be needed again too soon is high enough. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
You all talk about "insane" settings. They not such bad. The hardware manufacturers know what they are doing. If laptop harddisk go to "sleep" after 30sec of inactivity, there is a reason for that (security, power consumption). And it is perfectly ok. The problem is, the disk is not supposed to be waken up immediately. Info #1: Today I have witnessed very similar behaviour on two different notebooks running Windows XP. That means, it doesn't have to be true that windows somehow "correct" these settings. It behaved quite same, after 20-30sec of hdd inactivity, the hdd went to sleep. The difference was, under Ubuntu it wakes immediately. Under windows, it was sleeping for several minutes, until some disk activity was needed (some system service or user intervention). *This* is how it is supposed to behave and how hdd manufacturers expect it to be, I presume. Info #2: Laptop-mode is not enabled by default nor any settings are applied to the disk (as Matthew Garrett said before). So do not blame it. As a matter of fact, my notebook behaves correctly with laptop-mode enabled. It is putting disk to sleep only on battery and it is not waking it up immediately. It is working right like in Windows(!). According to acpi configuration file, laptop-mode is not enabled due to odd hangs on some machines. What does it all mean? If your harddisk goes to sleep 10 times an hour, always for a few minutes, it's perfectly ok, do the math. That's how the manufacturers supposed it to be. Therefore Ubuntu should not tweak harddisk default settings. Instead, it should detect these "aggressive apm enabled" harddisks (or simply all laptops) and delay flushing intervals and slow down daemons accessing the disk. That's what the laptop-mode does. But it has some hardware compatibility issues. Ok, so let's take only a hardware-independent and non-problematic subset of laptop-mode and enable it on notebooks. It will help their disks a lot. Simply: Do not touch the disk if you don't have to, Ubuntu. At least on notebooks. That's all. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
to Blue : I agree. These laptop-mode aggressive power management defaults seem to be quite insane. You and I suffered from this problem because of laptop- mode. Some harddrives might have insane aggressive power management defaults in their firmware (I have no idea how much harddrives would have insane defaults (windows might correct such insane defaults making these drives less visible). -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
to Blue : I agree. These laptop-mode defaults seem to be quite insane. But just because you and I suffered from this problem because of laptop-mode doesn't mean there some harddrives might have insane defaults in their firmware (I have no idea how much harddrives would have insane defaults (windows might correct such insane defaults). -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
There is (almost) no firmware and/or bios issue here. It's the OS's scripts that set insane defaults. As about aggressive power management settings - let's not forget that a hard drive is a delicate mechanical piece of equipment that spins at 5400 or 7200 rotations per minute. It is not supposed to be turned on and off every 2 minutes just like your car's engine is not supposed to be turned off whenever you stop at the red light of the semaphore. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Also IMHO harddrives shouldn't die within 1 year even if you have enabled aggressive power management settings. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
IMHO this bug should get critical status because it's killing people's harddrives. I previously reported about a problem I had with my harddrive : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/151938 Turns out the harddrive was dying. I confirmed it with Samsung's hutil 2.0.3 from the Ultimate Boot CD. Now I am the proud owner of a Western Digital WD2500BEVS. I have had laptop-mode enabled for a long time. Apparantly this caused my harddrive to get a Load_Cycle_Count of 241.493 in 1 year time. This is what probably caused my harddrive problems. I think we can dissect the bug into the following parts : * harddrive firmware should use sane defaults for power management (contact your harddrive manufacturer if you don't use laptop-mode and suffer from this problem) * the BIOS shouldn't set the amount of power management of your harddrive (contact your BIOS manufacturer if your harddrive manufacturer isn't the one to blame) * aggressive power management settings (set by your harddrive's firmware or your BIOS) should be detected and handled * laptop-mode should be less aggressive about power management in the meantime you shouldn't enable it * if the hdparm service is enabled then hdparm should load the settings from /etc/hdparm.conf after resuming frome suspend-to-ram and hibernate- to-disk * the top causes for hard drive wake up should be found * smartmontools should be installed on default. smartd should run on default with sane settings hooking into a notifier to notify users o if the Load_Cycle_Count is increased with more than 90 cycles within 24 hours o if smartctl thinks your harddrive assess your harddrive as not healthy o if more than X errors where found during the last self-test Regarding smartd hooking into a notifier I found the following wiki pages with similar ideas : * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/SMARTMonitoring * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskMonitoring -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Just a reminder, for all of us, to keep the Ubuntu Code of Conduct[1] in mind at all times. With this bug getting a lot of attention, that's especially important. I'm sure we can come up with a good solution to this! [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
About the opinion of the official ubuntu developer. Yes, it blindly follows what the bios specifies. But, wait, Windows does not follow what the bios specifies. The laptop is only supported for windows, hence, it is only tested with windows. The _expected_ behavior of the hardware manufactoror is that likely that the bios values are ignored (just like they are in windows). Like I said, stop the blame game. The truth is windows keeps the hard-drive in tact, and ubuntu trashes it. It destroys it. This is a not a wishlist thingie. The laptop does not officially support linux. Its up to linux to decide wether to support the laptop. But ubuntu installs WITHOUT A COMPLAINT. This is the real issue. If you want to punish the hardware manufacturor for setting up bad bios values, go ahead. But WARN THE USER. At this point, not being able to install ubuntu on these laptops would be an _improvement_ of the situation. Do you really want to kill the harddrives (including all the data loss) of these people because you don't want to solve a problem that is the fault of bad bios settings? Seriously. What ever happend to being a good samaritan. The fact that ubuntu _can_ solve this issue, puts _some_ of the responsibility on Ubuntu. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
As I promised, here are the results of the test. I replaced hdparm with a
script and logged what happened.
So, here we have the proof that actually the scripts ARE altering the default
settings.
<>
Fri Oct 26 01:28:00 EEST 2007 hdparm invoked with parameters -S 4 /dev/sda
...[pstree]
|-apmd---apmd_proxy---run-parts---laptop-mode---laptop_mode---hdparm---pstree
...
---
Fri Oct 26 01:28:17 EEST 2007 hdparm invoked with parameters -S 244 /dev/sda
init-+-apmd---apmd_proxy---run-parts---laptop-mode---laptop_mode---hdparm---pstree
|-klogd
`-rc---S20sendsigs---sleep
---
Fri Oct 26 01:29:33 EEST 2007 hdparm invoked with parameters -S0 /dev/sda
...[pstree]
|-rc---S20hdparm---S20hdparm---hdparm---pstree
...
---
Fri Oct 26 01:29:37 EEST 2007 hdparm invoked with parameters -S 4 /dev/sda
init-+-NetworkManager
|-NetworkManagerD
|-apmd---apmd_proxy---run-parts---laptop-mode---laptop_mode---hdparm---pstree
|-console-kit-dae---61*[{console-kit-dae}]
|-cron
|-dbus-daemon
|-dd
.[more pstree cut]
<<< end >>>
All I did was to reenable the acpid and apmd services and reboot... I
also mention that on this system on_ac_power returns 255 and the system
does not interpret correctly this sittuation and activates a laptop
specific on-battery profile(this is another bug) . This is actually a
desktop system.
--
default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
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[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I had the same problem. I tried workarounds written above but nothing helped. Haddisk made one cycle in every second minute when running on battery. Then I turn off laptop mode and now it's OK. And I don't recognize any difference between running with laptop mode and without laptop mode. Battery life is about the same. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
Andrew definitely has a good point. And a lot of other people have backed him. It's definitely true that we want the head to park as soon as possible after there is no activity. But for some reason Ubuntu is unparking the head, doing something for a split second, and reparking the head at a constant interval. I think it's this behaviour that really needs to be addressed, not power management. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I've checked this behavior on Mac OS X and Ubuntu Gutsy on MacBook Pro C2D, HDD Fujitsu 160GB. Under Mac OS X load cycle counter gets increased around every minute, even with external power plugged. With Ubuntu I've enabled the laptop mode and set CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 in laptop-mode.conf, and the counter is not incremented anymore with external power source. With the battery source and laptop mode enabled, HDD spins down periodically when there is no activity, but is not waking up instantly. When the laptop mode is disabled however, this spindown issue appears under Linux. I think that the laptop firmware (or hard drive itself) sets aggressive HDD power save mode on startup. -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59695] Re: default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
I think I have the same problem with my 3 years old Acer Aspire 1662wlm... My notebook has a shining new HD Hitachi 5k100 60 GB, the previous 2 Hitachi HD were broken (the first on January 2007 after more than 2 years using XP and just 6 months of using Kubuntu, the second broken on September 2007)...All the HD has been replaced in warranty (now my warranty is expired) due to an extension I (fortunately) made on 2004. All my HD "clicked" on idle much much more under Kubuntu than under XP, but I dint't think it could generate a mechanical problem... For my new Hitachi SMART reports about 3200 load_cycle_count after about 81 Power_on_hours...I thing my brand new HD is not safe with Gutsy and I have no more warranty from Acer to be used; all the suggestions proposed by all of you didn't produce any change on my laptop that still clicks on idle with a constant increasing value of cycle_count. I gently ask Ubuntu developers to try to find a solution, if a solution exists, for this strange behaviour; I love Kubuntu OS and I don't want to go-back to win -- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
