Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
On Mo, 14 Jun 2010, Callum Macdonald wrote:
> Here's what I believe to be a copy of LPPL version 1.3c to which you refer:
> http://www.latex-project.org/lppl/lppl-1-3c.txt
Yes.
> Are you willing to explain on what basis you feel this license prohibits
> distribution of a Compiled Work without the accompanying documentation
> components?
Yes, but are you willing to read them?
> Under clause 2, distributing part of the Work is considered a Derived
> Work. Under clause 6, this is allowed under four requirements.
Right, and the "Work" is the complee set, including documentation.
> Clause 6a refers to components of the Work which are direct
> replacements. That does not apply to a Derived Work without
> documentation, the components are not direct replacements, they are the
It is a derived work, because assuming we do not ship the doc files,
then according to clause 2
Distribution of only part of the Work is considered
modification of the Work
And *of*course* they are *direct* replacements, because the files
can be used as is instead of the original ones (they are the original ones)
without stating proiminently that it is a changed file.
So clause 6a is the one to apply, because we do not ship the "Original Work"
and the "Derived Work" can be used as replacement.
Do you want us to change *every* file (several thousands?) changing the
copyright statement there? No.
Best wishes
Norbert
Norbert Preiningprein...@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
Hi Callum,
On So, 13 Jun 2010, Callum Macdonald wrote:
> Norbert, you said this has been discussed on the Debian bug tracking
> system and debian tex-maint mailing list. Is that correct?
Right.
> I found a bug, but I'm struggling to find anything in the mailing list.
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=515051
Right. All important things are stated there.
> Do you know specifically where I can find the previous discussions? Or
suggestions on how to find them? I've run several searches on the debian
mailing list search, but I've been unable to find anything relevant.
What else do you need? There is:
- explanation why the doc files are a recommends and not a suggests
(and that this is already a compromise regarding the LPPL)
- how to adjust your system to make sure that the recommends are not installed
I don't see any more need in discussing that further.
> = Licensing =
>
> In debian bug 515051 you said 'It is not necessarily a case of "prefer"
> but of "license" ...'. I took this to mean that the license of texlive /
> tex requires that the documentation be included. Is that an accurate
> interpretation of what you meant?
>
> I found what I believe to be the texlive license here:
> http://www.tug.org/texlive/LICENSE.TL
>
> I don't see anything in that document that specifies a need for
> documentation to be included in distributions. Perhaps I've
> misunderstood something here. Can you point me in the right direction?
LPPL 1.3c, please read. The "work" is by many authors considered
as not only the run time files, but also the documentation. Installing
the run time files *without* documentation would break the LPPL.
As said in the bug report, if people are continuing to complain
I will include *ALL* the doc files back into the original packages,
remvoe the recommends, and there will be no more option. End of
discussion.
> = Philosophy =
[much blabla deleted]
All has been said. If Ubuntu people want to do something else, they
are free to do wahtever they want. I keep to my rules, and I am not
inclined to make any further concessions trying to expand LPPL.
If Ubuntu packagers want to do that, they are free to do so.
Enjoy
Norbert
Norbert Preiningprein...@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
On Di, 23 Mär 2010, Shark Bay Technical Services wrote:
> This bug is not invalid, as per the The Debian Policy Manual the
> documentation files should be "Suggests" not recommends
> have reset status to incomplete. please do not change to invalid without
> discussion first.
This bug is *INVALID* as discussed several times on the Debian TeX
mailing list
I will not repeat ad nauseam the arguments, if you are too lazy
to read up, so it be.
BTW,*you* should not change status without discussion.
Best wishes
Norbert
Norbert Preiningprein...@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, JapanTU Wien, Austria Debian TeX Task Force
DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
Yes but unfortunately the default is to automatically install recommends. Documentation of this type should always be a suggests. Otherwise it WILL ALL WAYS be installed unless a user removes it by hand. Even an update can cause it to be installed. Not very sensible. Recommends should only be for software that is desirable for correct operation, and possibly ESSENTIAL documentation that is likely to be required to make a package work. This should ammount to a couple of pages at most. David Ilya Barygin wrote: > Documentation is only recommended. If you want to save space, install > with aptitude -R. > > ** Changed in: texlive-extra (Ubuntu) >Status: New => Invalid > > -- texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/401545 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
-- texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/401545 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 401545] Re: texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software
On Fr, 20 Nov 2009, Eric wrote: > The Debian Policy Manual, Chapter 7, defines a Recommends as a "strong, > but not absolute, *dependency*" (emphasis added.) These documentation > packages should be Suggests, defined as packages that "can perhaps > enhance its usefulness, but that installing this one without them is > perfectly reasonable". These packages take approximately 230MB and are > superfluous, and compared to ~15MB for an example package+dependencies, > is extreme. 230MB worth of text documentation is a lot to recommend. Already discussed hundreds of times, this is invalid bug. Please read up on the Debian BTS for explanations. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert PreiningAssociate Professor JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology prein...@jaist.ac.jp Vienna University of Technology prein...@logic.at Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force)prein...@debian.org gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- BILBSTER A pimple so hideous and enormous that you have to cover it with sticking plaster and pretend you've cut yourself shaving. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff -- texlive depends on docs that take up more space than the software https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/401545 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
