Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
On 06/08/2010 10:58 AM, Scott Severance wrote: > I'd like to second iEGL's suggestion to remove Hangeul from that font. > After all, Hangeul is pretty much irrelevant to Chinese, which is the > focus of that font. And there is already adequate Hangeul coverage > included by default without that font. Let that font do its job of > handling Chinese, and let Korean fonts handle Korean (by the way, Korean > rarely uses Hanja; Hangeul is used almost all of the time). Why should a > Chinese font include Hangeul? > I kindly disagree. First of all, the issue itself is only related to an anti-aliasing setting in a fontconfig file. It has nothing to do with the Hangul glyphs themselves included in these font. The right solution has been already provided in comment #8. Secondly, because Korean people rarely use Han characters does not mean Chinese won't use Hangul. For the same reason, LGC people almost never use Chinese, that won't give you a conclusion that all LGC characters should be removed from Chinese fonts. (Hangul are found in many Chinese ASCII arts, and I believe many Korean literature and archives have Hanja) Thirdly, removing Hangul from these two fonts gain little saving in terms of space. All Hangeul glyphs are composed of references, and removing them only save a few hundred KB. The price to pay is that Chinese users have to install Korean fonts to read Korean. That is almost tons of MB in space. A single compact Unicode font is very important for many mini-distributions and i18n support for open-source games. Lastly, Hanguls in Korean fonts and Chinese fonts have different metrics and slightly different styles. It is always good to have matched metrics when displaying a text mixed with different languages. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
Pan, Shi Zhu wrote: > It seems to work, I have two concerns: > > 1. zenity depends on gtk+, atk, cairo, and lots of stuffs, it may at > least cause inconvenience to kde users. CLI program might be a better > choice. > zenhei already has a CLI setting tool: zenheiset but it was packed as /usr/share/doc/ttf-wqy-zenhei/examples/zenheiset in 0.8.38-1ubuntu1 I guess when we update zenhei next time, I will ask Zhengpeng to move zenheiset to /usr/bin/zenheiset > 2. may be better to provide choice separately for sans-serif, serif > and mono fonts. > this is possible with pre-made fontconfig files. Contribution is also welcome. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
Maybe this link could help? http://www.unifont.org/fontguide/ Adi Roiban wrote: > ** Changed in: ubuntu-translations >Status: New => Confirmed > > -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Qianqian Fang wrote: > The NB can be downloaded from http://wenq.org/daily/zenhei/ , I would be > glad to hear any feedback on this. > It seems to work, I have two concerns: 1. zenity depends on gtk+, atk, cairo, and lots of stuffs, it may at least cause inconvenience to kde users. CLI program might be a better choice. 2. may be better to provide choice separately for sans-serif, serif and mono fonts. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Qianqian Fang wrote: > ZhengPeng Hou wrote: >> To Qianqian: >> I'm about to disable 66-wqy-zenhei-sharp.conf in Lucid by default. >> what do you think about it? >> > > sounds fine to me, but what about Karmic? will you back-port it? > > I will also polish the wqy font-setting GUI so that it can > make it easier to switch between bitmaps and vector rendering. > Perhaps a more generic approach is desirable, the reason many people dislike the default bitmap in wqy is: wqy bitmap song is "serif" style font while wqy zenhei is "sans serif" style font. Personally, I enable bitmap song only for "serif" style font and use a SongTi style font for "serif" font family, while use wqy zenhei only for "sans serif" style font, and another font for my "mono" style. It should be much better to be able to choose Chinese font and to enable/disable bitmap *separately* for sans, serif and mono family. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Qianqian Fang wrote: > ZhengPeng Hou wrote: >> To Qianqian: >> I'm about to disable 66-wqy-zenhei-sharp.conf in Lucid by default. >> what do you think about it? >> > > sounds fine to me, but what about Karmic? will you back-port it? maybe yes, maybe no :) > > I will also polish the wqy font-setting GUI so that it can > make it easier to switch between bitmaps and vector rendering. > > -- > ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 > You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee. > -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
ZhengPeng Hou wrote: > To Qianqian: > I'm about to disable 66-wqy-zenhei-sharp.conf in Lucid by default. > what do you think about it? > sounds fine to me, but what about Karmic? will you back-port it? I will also polish the wqy font-setting GUI so that it can make it easier to switch between bitmaps and vector rendering. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
To Qianqian: I'm about to disable 66-wqy-zenhei-sharp.conf in Lucid by default. what do you think about it? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Qianqian Fang wrote: > ** Bug watch added: freedesktop.org Bugzilla #24960 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24960 > > ** Bug watch added: freedesktop.org Bugzilla #20911 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911 > > ** Bug watch added: Red Hat Bugzilla #499902 > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499902 > > -- > ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 > You received this bug notification because you are a bug assignee. > -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
Shi Zhu: I want to clarify that the issue you report here does not conflict with the solution to this bug. At the very beginning, I was also afraid of the CJK Han-variant problems as you did. Fortunately, what ahavatar is not about that. It is about Hangul, which Zen Hei has the full coverage inherited from Ubuntu's default Korean fonts. So, in that sense, it does not conflict each other to make both Chinese Han characters and Hanguls look good under en_US locale. The solution is simply like what I outlined in my previous post. I also filed another bug to fontconfig to mitigate the needs for setting antialias=false when using embeddedbitmaps, see https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24960 As you and Arne pointed out, Han glyph shape variant (or Z-variant) is more challenging issue. My suggested solution is to keep zh_CN as the default shape variant (because of its huge coverage) for all non-CJK locales, and use CJK specific fontconfig files to enable their own respective settings under the corresponding locales. The fontconfig-voodoo tool is a Ubuntu implementations to link a set of files per locale. I also proposed a solution which can make CJK files concurrently used, you can find a lot more discussions at http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20911 and https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499902 I wish people who cares about this problem to give a serious review and push the upstreams to adopt this scheme. Pan, Shi Zhu wrote: > For a long time when wqy was not present in ubuntu, Chinese text does > not look good in en_US.utf8. Because they are shown as Korean or Japan > font. > > So, if this change is reversed, should Chinese users report the bugfix > itself as a bug? > > The point is: when locale is en_US.utf8, only *one* of CJK fonts will > look good. > > If you put a Korean fonts as the highest priority, then Chinese and > Japan text will not look good at en_US.utf8. > > If we put a Chinese fonts as the highest priority, then Korean and > Japan text will not look good at en_US.utf8. > > If we put a Japan fonts as the highest priority, then Korean and > Chinese text will not look good at en_US.utf8. > > The point is you should set the locale in order to raise your font to > the highest priority. Otherwise, in en_US.utf8 no one could decide > which one in CJK should be the highest priority. > > Or there may be another solution: make a unique font which looks good > in all CJK characters... > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:50 PM, ahavatar wrote: > >> Even my local is en_US.UTF8, I should be able to visit some Korean >> websites, right? Without ttf-wqy-* packages, I have no problem in doing >> so with the Ubuntu 9.10 system default (i.e. I haven't changed any font >> nor locale setting except adding Korean language, but the default is >> still en_US.UTF8) >> >> But with the ttf-wqy-* fonts installed, Korean fonts become broken and >> almost unreadable. In fact, many Korean Ubuntu 9.10 users have the same >> problem and have reported this in the Korean Ubuntu User forum >> (www.ubuntu.or.kr) as well. >> >> > > -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:38 AM, ahavatar wrote: > Pan, Shi Zhu, > > I am not a font expert, but my thought is that if any part of a font > package is uglier than the system default one, it should not be > installed by default and should not have a higher priority than the > system default one. > The Chinese part of the korean font package is uglier than the system default one. While the korean font is always installed by default, those chinese characters are displayed as korean font in en_us.utf8. Chinese users have suffered from that since ubuntu 4.x The best solution may be designing a unique font for all CJK characters, but I'm not sure if it is technically possible. In fact, wenquanyi wants to accomplish that, and every single characters of wenquanyi are open source and welcome for wiki-like improvement in its web site. The next-best solution may be that each user learn to use fontconfig-voodoo or to edit /etc/fonts/conf.d manually. Currently it may be the most possible solution. -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
Pan, Shi Zhu wrote: > The point is you should set the locale in order to raise your font to > the highest priority. Otherwise, in en_US.utf8 no one could decide > which one in CJK should be the highest priority. We have fontconfig-voodoo for this case as a workaround. Language-selector contains fontconfig snippets for each region and the command line script fontconfig-voodoo which puts one of those in place, depending on the locale you give it as an argument. See 'fontconfig-voodoo -h'. > Or there may be another solution: make a unique font which looks good > in all CJK characters... That is highly desirable, but unfortunately simply impossible as long as each region (China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Korea) has their own definition on how the glyphs should look like. The glyphs look different in each region, but share the same codepoints. This has finally prompted Unicode to publish the Code charts regarding CJK as multi-column tables, which list all the different shapes [1]. Therefor it's technically impossible. [1] http://www.unicode.org/Public/5.2.0/charts/CodeCharts- MulticolHan.pdf -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 475240] Re: ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts
For a long time when wqy was not present in ubuntu, Chinese text does not look good in en_US.utf8. Because they are shown as Korean or Japan font. So, if this change is reversed, should Chinese users report the bugfix itself as a bug? The point is: when locale is en_US.utf8, only *one* of CJK fonts will look good. If you put a Korean fonts as the highest priority, then Chinese and Japan text will not look good at en_US.utf8. If we put a Chinese fonts as the highest priority, then Korean and Japan text will not look good at en_US.utf8. If we put a Japan fonts as the highest priority, then Korean and Chinese text will not look good at en_US.utf8. The point is you should set the locale in order to raise your font to the highest priority. Otherwise, in en_US.utf8 no one could decide which one in CJK should be the highest priority. Or there may be another solution: make a unique font which looks good in all CJK characters... On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:50 PM, ahavatar wrote: > Even my local is en_US.UTF8, I should be able to visit some Korean > websites, right? Without ttf-wqy-* packages, I have no problem in doing > so with the Ubuntu 9.10 system default (i.e. I haven't changed any font > nor locale setting except adding Korean language, but the default is > still en_US.UTF8) > > But with the ttf-wqy-* fonts installed, Korean fonts become broken and > almost unreadable. In fact, many Korean Ubuntu 9.10 users have the same > problem and have reported this in the Korean Ubuntu User forum > (www.ubuntu.or.kr) as well. > -- ttf-wqy-microhei ttf-wqy-zenhei break Korean fonts https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475240 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
