Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
There are a number of inaccuracies in this comment, but there's no point discussing this further with somebody who clearly isn't interested in hearing what we have to say. I'm not prepared to spend any more time explaining how GRUB works in this bug report. Please allow us to debug user problems in our own way; you have already said you're using another OS now. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 Title: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
The thing that's needed is consistency, not agreement with BIOS ordering. The necessary property can be expressed quite simply: once you choose to install GRUB to a given disk on installing the OS, upgraded versions should be installed to that disk again on upgrades. BIOS ordering does nothing to help with this since it can be changed in BIOS Setup menus. We achieve consistency nowadays by recording the by-id links for disks rather than any other one of the possible names: the by-id links encode properties such as the serial number of the disk. In cases where this goes wrong on upgrade, it is typically because the disk device name was mis-recorded somehow; sometimes it's user error, but I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of further bugs in GRUB's debconf integration, or installer bugs whose effects hang around even after they'd been fixed. If you could stop going on about BIOS ordering any time somebody brings up a problem, I might be able to have a coherent conversation with bug reporters to find out why! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 Title: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
Frank and Leo, could you post the output of 'sudo debconf-show grub-pc', plus /var/log/installer/syslog and /var/log/installer/partman? I suspect that at some point something (perhaps the installer) recorded the wrong disk as the installation target, and that got preserved. seasoned_geek: please give it a rest. There are many ways to constructively get our attention on a problem; harping on and on about the same misunderstanding is not one of them. BIOS ordering is a red herring. Please stop abusing us about it on this bug. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 Title: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
Grub MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST support the BIOS device order. Why must Grub boot with Unix code? Why cannot Grub boot with whatever bootstrap IBM used with the boot manager they shipped with OS/2? That boot manager always respected device order AND it could boot any OS, including various Linux of the day...of course...if I remember correctly, that one used its own thin boot partition to work its magic. If the Unix bootstrap cannot directly communicate with the BIOS to determine device order and type, then, there is no reason to use the Unix bootstrap code, use code that actually works. On Tuesday, October 19, 2010 02:15:47 pm you wrote: > I used update-manager to update from 10.04 to 10.10, and I got the infamous > "grub-xputs". I have two SATA disks and memory card reader. > With 10.04, SATA disks were enumerated before memory card readers (sda, sdb > then sdc, sde, sdd, sdf). With 10.10, memory card readers are enumerated > before SATA disks (sda, sdb, sdc, sdd then sde, sdf). If I boot on a USB > key, it's inserted between memory card reader and SATA disks (which become > sdf, sdg). Previously, it was easier to guess enumeration order of mass > memory (and to help other users). As I did many things, I'm not sure of > what solves issue, but it seems it was when I booted on CD-ROM instead of > USB key. I also set MBR on both disks! -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net No U.S. troops have ever lost their lives defending our ethanol reserves. -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
This bug has EVERYTHING to do with how the BIOS orders devices and how Grub just outright ignores that ordering despite the fact every other PC based OS can get that information from the BIOS and respect it. They can even honor the device order selected by the user from the boot menu. When Grub chooses the wrong *&)(&)(*&^ing drive as the boot drive, it updates the wrong MBR. We have had this discussion many many many times. The DOS emulator people can get it right. The wine people can get it right. FreeDOS can get it right and so can most other OSs. Grub chooses not to. On Friday, October 15, 2010 07:24:21 pm you wrote: > @Seasoned_geek > > Please re-read the bug description, this has nothing to do with how the > BIOS orders devices. Additionally, it is impossible to reliably > determine the BIOS's order from within linux which, among other reasons, > is why grub2 instead identifies filesystems by UUID. -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net No U.S. troops have ever lost their lives defending our ethanol reserves. -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
Unless, in its infinite wisdom of not identifying devices in BIOS order, Grub also decided to identify devices as whatever type it chooses rather than what they are. It could have "identified" the RAID controller connected CD/DVD as a hard drive even though it wasn't and choose to try updating that MBR. For the record, FreeDOS still will not boot once KUbuntu is installed. I even cannibalized my machine down to one physical SATA drive and Grub STILL luggies up C: as far as FreeDOS is concerned siighh On Friday, October 15, 2010 06:32:00 pm you wrote: > @Danny Sauer > > This bug has been fixed. And as you have only one hard drive it could > not, by definition, have ever affected you. -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net No U.S. troops have ever lost their lives defending our ethanol reserves. -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
The problem is that Grub doesn't identify SATA drives in the same order as the BIOS. It is really easy to see if you have 3 SATA drives and each have different sizes. I have argued and argued and argued and argued, but I keep hitting a stone wall. FreeDOS and Windows both manage to identify hardware in the same order as the BIOS, they even honor BIOS overrides which change drive ordering, but Grubnot so much. On Sunday, September 12, 2010 09:57:49 am you wrote: > Same here, it hit me when upgrading from Kubuntu 10.04 to 10.10beta, on > an amd64 system with multiple sata drives. I had to boot from the live > image and chroot. > > Shouldn't that part of a grub/system upgrade ask for user input, since > this is SO critical? This is a killer for non-experts! -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions (630)-205-1593 http://www.logikalsolutions.com http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net No U.S. soldiers have been deployed to defend our ethanol reserves. -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
The problem is that Grub does not respect the BIOS ordering, which means it doesn't play with Windows, FreeDOS, DR DOS, or any other OS that does respect BIOS ordering for multi-drive systems. On Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:45:28 pm you wrote: > Bump. I can attest that this symptom is present in release Lucid. I > performed an over-the-wire upgrade from 9.10 to 10.04. On reboot, got the > "symbol `grub_puts_' not found" error. Interestingly, although there are > two SATA HDs in this machine (one spinning media, one solid-state), the > BIOS enumerates the SSD first, the BIOS boots off the SSD, the grub rescue > mode enumerates the SDD as (hd0), and the 2.6.32-22 boot files are at > (hd0,1)/boot. When the upgrade was running, /dev/sda was the SDD. I > don't find any way that the grub install/setup during the upgrade could > have become confused about which drive was supposed to get grub installed > on it, nor any evidence that the drive enumeration would have changed. > (The spinning disk, sdb, a.k.a. (hd1), has my 5.somtething - 9.04 > repeatedly over-the-wire upgraded image and files, which is still attached > since I'm not convinced I have all my settings transferred over...) (time > passes) > Huh. Booting from the spinning disk gets a grub2 style menu that can boot > into 10.04 on sda. Now how do I fix it so grub's in the right MBR? (time > passes) > Trying "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/ /dev/sda" as per > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1014708 , linked by Jack Fariss > (#14). Reboot. Change BIOS boot order to boot the SDD (sda, hd0) first > again. Reboot. Success! > > So, for no apparent reason the 10.04 upgrade seems to have pushed grub > onto the MBR of 10.04 or possibly the lingering 9.04 grub on sdb's MBR > was able to find the 10.04 images and boot them. Either way... -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions (630)-205-1593 http://www.logikalsolutions.com http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
This bug impacts all who have multiple SATA drives. While DELL may be corrupting things for _some_ users, my workstation doesn't have a single Windows partition on it. Grub DOES NOT HONOR the BIOS drive enumeration. If you have more than one disk drive, YOU CANNOT INSTALL this or any later version of Grub because it will choose its own order. In my case, I put a FreeDOS partition and a FAT-32 extended partition on the first bootable drive per the BIOS. After installing Ubuntu, there was no method of booting DOS from Grub because Grub changed the device numbering in a non-BIOS compatible way. Until Grub honors the BIOS device order, this bug will be a constant PITA On Sunday 18 April 2010 05:06:06 pm Boyd Waters wrote: > This bug might interact with the Dell Backup Utility, but I hit this > bug every time I install Ubuntu with Grub2 on my no-name, custom PC. > My computer uses a SATA DVD, and has lots of hard disks. The BIOS disk > enumeration may change for Grub when the system is running the > installation DVD, then disk ejects, reboots from the hard disk. > > In any case, I am certain that removing any Dell utility will not > resolve the situation for me, as there are no such on this machine. > > On Apr 18, 2010, at 3:47 AM, bigdoby wrote: > > the permanent fix is to remove the Dell Backup Utility. > > > > Rob. > > > > On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 9:31 PM, M Pietila > > > > wrote: > >> Upgraded from Karmic to Lucid today and am also having the "symbol > >> 'grub_puts' not found" error described by illbashu; I have the Ubuntu > >> install on a different drive from sda, so I had to reinstall grub2 > >> for > >> Karmic also. I haven't rebooted yet after reinstalling grub2, but I > >> assume I'll run into the same need-to-keep-fixing-it problem as > >> illbashu... would definitely be nice to have a permanent fix! > >> > >> -- > >> upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR > >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 > >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct > >> subscriber > >> of a duplicate bug. > > > > -- > > Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about > > it. > > Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man… > > living in the > > sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the > > invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you > > to do. > > And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special > > place, of > > burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live > > forever, > > and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he > > loves you. > > He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. > > > > -- > > upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 > > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > > of a duplicate bug. > > > > Status in “grub2” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released > > Status in “grub2” package in Debian: New > > > > Bug description: > > Binary package hint: grub2 > > > > The grub-pc package calls grub-install on upgrades. The drive to > > install to is stored in debconf as a string like "/dev/sdb". The > > problem is that /dev/sdb won't always be the same device if drives > > are moved around or, where the situation is particularly bad, when > > Ubuntu is installed to an external drive and used on multiple > > computers as a "live" system. For this reason everywhere else in > > Ubuntu I can think of file systems are specified with UUIDs rather > > than device names. For specifying drives, /dev/disk/by-id/ seems to > > give a unique way to identify a disk. grub-pc should store something > > like "/dev/disk/by-id/usb-OEI- > > USB2_Ultra_Disk_Drive_090706000466-0:0" instead of "/dev/sdb" so > > there is no chance of installing to the wrong disk on grub-pc > > upgrades. > > > > As an example: If you install Ubuntu to an external USB drive on > > computer that has only one internal drive then grub-pc/ > > install_devices will likely contain "/dev/sdb". If you then boot > > from that external on another computer that has an OS installed on > > its second internal drive, an upgrade of the grub-pc package would > > install to /dev/sdb making that computer unbootable. > > > > Work Around: If you install Ubuntu to an external drive and plan to > > use it on multiple computers run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc" and > > uncheck all drives when prompted for "GRUB install devices". You > > will need to manually run grub-install to the correct drive before > > any major upgrades. > > > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/496435/+subscribe > -- Roland Hughes, President Logikal Solutions (630)-205-1593 http://www.logikalsolutions.com http://www.infiniteexposure.net http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bug
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
This bug might interact with the Dell Backup Utility, but I hit this bug every time I install Ubuntu with Grub2 on my no-name, custom PC. My computer uses a SATA DVD, and has lots of hard disks. The BIOS disk enumeration may change for Grub when the system is running the installation DVD, then disk ejects, reboots from the hard disk. In any case, I am certain that removing any Dell utility will not resolve the situation for me, as there are no such on this machine. On Apr 18, 2010, at 3:47 AM, bigdoby wrote: > the permanent fix is to remove the Dell Backup Utility. > > Rob. > > On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 9:31 PM, M Pietila > wrote: > >> Upgraded from Karmic to Lucid today and am also having the "symbol >> 'grub_puts' not found" error described by illbashu; I have the Ubuntu >> install on a different drive from sda, so I had to reinstall grub2 >> for >> Karmic also. I haven't rebooted yet after reinstalling grub2, but I >> assume I'll run into the same need-to-keep-fixing-it problem as >> illbashu... would definitely be nice to have a permanent fix! >> >> -- >> upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct >> subscriber >> of a duplicate bug. >> > > > -- > Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about > it. > Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man… > living in the > sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the > invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you > to do. > And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special > place, of > burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live > forever, > and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he > loves you. > He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. > > -- > upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of a duplicate bug. > > Status in “grub2” package in Ubuntu: Fix Released > Status in “grub2” package in Debian: New > > Bug description: > Binary package hint: grub2 > > The grub-pc package calls grub-install on upgrades. The drive to > install to is stored in debconf as a string like "/dev/sdb". The > problem is that /dev/sdb won't always be the same device if drives > are moved around or, where the situation is particularly bad, when > Ubuntu is installed to an external drive and used on multiple > computers as a "live" system. For this reason everywhere else in > Ubuntu I can think of file systems are specified with UUIDs rather > than device names. For specifying drives, /dev/disk/by-id/ seems to > give a unique way to identify a disk. grub-pc should store something > like "/dev/disk/by-id/usb-OEI- > USB2_Ultra_Disk_Drive_090706000466-0:0" instead of "/dev/sdb" so > there is no chance of installing to the wrong disk on grub-pc > upgrades. > > As an example: If you install Ubuntu to an external USB drive on > computer that has only one internal drive then grub-pc/ > install_devices will likely contain "/dev/sdb". If you then boot > from that external on another computer that has an OS installed on > its second internal drive, an upgrade of the grub-pc package would > install to /dev/sdb making that computer unbootable. > > Work Around: If you install Ubuntu to an external drive and plan to > use it on multiple computers run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc" and > uncheck all drives when prompted for "GRUB install devices". You > will need to manually run grub-install to the correct drive before > any major upgrades. > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/496435/+subscribe -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
the permanent fix is to remove the Dell Backup Utility. Rob. On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 9:31 PM, M Pietila wrote: > Upgraded from Karmic to Lucid today and am also having the "symbol > 'grub_puts' not found" error described by illbashu; I have the Ubuntu > install on a different drive from sda, so I had to reinstall grub2 for > Karmic also. I haven't rebooted yet after reinstalling grub2, but I > assume I'll run into the same need-to-keep-fixing-it problem as > illbashu... would definitely be nice to have a permanent fix! > > -- > upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of a duplicate bug. > -- Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 496435] Re: upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR
Am Mittwoch, den 06.01.2010, 21:15 + schrieb bwallum: > set root=UUID=fd0c6442-dc3d-49ba-8e46-91657460fe52 > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set > fd0c6442-dc3d-49ba-8e46-91657460fe52 The search --fs-uuid --set line will set $root the device with that UUID. There's no need to change the set root and set root=UUID= like used with the Linux kernel is just wrong and doestn't work. > > It shows in the grub boot menu ok then fails because it it cannot find > a > file (but doesn't report which file it cannot find - another > enhancement > request please). The UUID refers to the boot partition on the external > drive which contains the grub files and the os. For now you have to type the commands of grub.cfg into GRUB's commandline yourself to see it. -- Felix Zielcke Proud Debian Maintainer and GNU GRUB developer -- upgrades of the grub-pc package can overwrite wrong MBR https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/496435 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
