Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
2007/5/6, DustinHarriman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Henrik, Glad to hear you're on the case, and there is momentum behind this issue. I too am glad. The project is already approved in Launchpad, and at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_(Linux_distribution)#_ref-0 it says There are currently plans to officially include Wubi or a similar tool in Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon.[3][4] It's excellent! I have another possibility for you to add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerForWindows Smart Boot Manager http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/about.html Summary: Smart Boot Manager (SBM) is an OS independent and full-featured boot manager with an easy-to-use user interface. SBM now supports booting from CD-ROM. It's GPL'ed too! Perhaps SBM could be installable from the menu that pops up when you insert the Ubuntu CD while in Windows. SBM could be installed to the MBR allowing the default booting to CD (and optionally Windows, just in case). After SBM is installed to the MBR, then ask the user to simply reboot with the Ubuntu CD still in the drive. Then SBM could be used (from the MBR) to chainload boot to their Ubuntu CD, **thereby bypassing the need to change the BIOS settings**. The Ubuntu install process would then overwrite SBM in the MBR as it installs grub. Which is fine, as the purpose of installing Ubuntu is served. Note: Future booting from CD (say, to use a rescue CD later on) could still be made possible in this convenient fashion by the Ubuntu install process making a grub menu entry to boot SBM not from the MBR, but from the root filesystem of Ubuntu, much like memtest86 is done. Here is info on how to do that: GRUB/Chainloaded CD-ROM http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Chainloading_a_bootable_CD-ROM_from_GRUB Hmm, it sounds like you want to allow the Ubuntu liveCD's Windows portion to install SBM so that users can boot from CD without changing the boot order in their BIOS. Interesting idea. Dustin, I will forward your message to the ubuntu-devel list right now. -- Jason Spiro: Linux consultant, web developer, Windows corporate trainer. No job too big or too small, whether two hours or two months. Contact me for info; to see my resume, send email with subject line resume. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/57379 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
Hello Henrik, Glad to hear you're on the case, and there is momentum behind this issue. I have another possibility for you to add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerForWindows Smart Boot Manager http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/about.html Summary: Smart Boot Manager (SBM) is an OS independent and full-featured boot manager with an easy-to-use user interface. SBM now supports booting from CD-ROM. It's GPL'ed too! Perhaps SBM could be installable from the menu that pops up when you insert the Ubuntu CD while in Windows. SBM could be installed to the MBR allowing the default booting to CD (and optionally Windows, just in case). After SBM is installed to the MBR, then ask the user to simply reboot with the Ubuntu CD still in the drive. Then SBM could be used (from the MBR) to chainload boot to their Ubuntu CD, **thereby bypassing the need to change the BIOS settings**. The Ubuntu install process would then overwrite SBM in the MBR as it installs grub. Which is fine, as the purpose of installing Ubuntu is served. Note: Future booting from CD (say, to use a rescue CD later on) could still be made possible in this convenient fashion by the Ubuntu install process making a grub menu entry to boot SBM not from the MBR, but from the root filesystem of Ubuntu, much like memtest86 is done. Here is info on how to do that: GRUB/Chainloaded CD-ROM http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Chainloading_a_bootable_CD-ROM_from_GRUB Cheers, Dustin. On 4/26/07, Henrik Nilsen Omma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Assigning this to myself. I've charted the main options and written a summary here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerForWindows We'll discuss this at UDS. Cheers, Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices -Francis Moore Lappé -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/57379 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
Fair enough. I give you guys big kudos for respecting the Windows install (that a new Ubuntu install would either live alongside or wipe out). It is interesting to note that Microsoft **does not** pay that same courtesy back to Ubuntu. Witness what happens when you have a system with Ubuntu only installed, then you install Windows. In this situation, Windows by default wants to wipe out Ubuntu, not clearly explaining the meaning or implications of this. And Windows will surely wipe out GRUB such that Windows will boot ONLY, no choice is given like GRUB provides to also boot to Ubuntu. I salute your maturity and respect you show towards your competition, namely Microsoft. Cheers, Dustin. On 3/7/07, Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 05:26:41PM -, Dustin wrote: I also am curious: could any of the multiple solutions be complimentary to each other? Like could more than one solution be used? Rather than spending lots of time and effort reaching a consensus on picking one solution, why not just go ahead with the first and easiest one, and if a better solution comes later, maybe it can also be used (if it is complimentary)? It is well worth the investment in thinking through the problem before deploying a solution. The availability of a proof of concept implementation of one idea is useful and we will look at it, but it would not be wise to rush a new feature in, especially one which modifies the boot process of an installed Windows system. Anything we do in this respect must be carefully considered and thoroughly tested before being released. We're well into feature freeze for Ubuntu 7.04 (the beta release is just a few weeks away now), and we plan to discuss this topic at the Developer Summit in early May, after the release. More roads leading to Ubuntu is a good thing, IMHO, plus I also feel Ubuntu needs to act fast to compete with Vista. This is good reason to be creative, but not to be reckless. -- - mdz -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices -Francis Moore Lappé -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
2007/3/6, Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please do not assign bugs to others without their request I apologize. in particular, this is an idea with several possible solutions which are being considered I am curious: what are some of the other solutions you're considering? -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
I also am curious: could any of the multiple solutions be complimentary to each other? Like could more than one solution be used? Rather than spending lots of time and effort reaching a consensus on picking one solution, why not just go ahead with the first and easiest one, and if a better solution comes later, maybe it can also be used (if it is complimentary)? More roads leading to Ubuntu is a good thing, IMHO, plus I also feel Ubuntu needs to act fast to compete with Vista. Right as you read this, many tens of millions of computer users are wondering what they are going to do about their Windows 2000 boxen not being officially supported by Microsoft anymore (now that Vista is out, and Windows 2000 reaches its end-of-life), so now is the perfect time for Ubuntu to swoop in with a super-easy alternative solution to buying Vista, ie. an Ubuntu which is very, very easy to install because a novice user needn't care what a BIOS is whatsoever, much less configure it. This feature alone could gain many millions of new Ubuntu users! Think about it. Cheers, Dustin. On 3/6/07, Jason Spiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/3/6, Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please do not assign bugs to others without their request I apologize. in particular, this is an idea with several possible solutions which are being considered I am curious: what are some of the other solutions you're considering? -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices -Francis Moore Lappé -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 57379] Re: end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 05:26:41PM -, Dustin wrote: I also am curious: could any of the multiple solutions be complimentary to each other? Like could more than one solution be used? Rather than spending lots of time and effort reaching a consensus on picking one solution, why not just go ahead with the first and easiest one, and if a better solution comes later, maybe it can also be used (if it is complimentary)? It is well worth the investment in thinking through the problem before deploying a solution. The availability of a proof of concept implementation of one idea is useful and we will look at it, but it would not be wise to rush a new feature in, especially one which modifies the boot process of an installed Windows system. Anything we do in this respect must be carefully considered and thoroughly tested before being released. We're well into feature freeze for Ubuntu 7.04 (the beta release is just a few weeks away now), and we plan to discuss this topic at the Developer Summit in early May, after the release. More roads leading to Ubuntu is a good thing, IMHO, plus I also feel Ubuntu needs to act fast to compete with Vista. This is good reason to be creative, but not to be reckless. -- - mdz -- end users should not have to access BIOS whatsoever to install Ubuntu https://launchpad.net/bugs/57379 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
