Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/25 mmiicc > Workspace switcher icon, Applications icon (the one with plus sign in a > cap of coffee), Files and Folders icon and Ubuntu icon, also every icon > in top panel work in the way that on one click they show something, on > another they hide it. Is this also confusing to users? I don't think so. > So, why the same behaviour with minimising application's windows might > be confusing? And if not minimization, then rig the button to disable scale mode on second click (first click shows all open windows side by side, second click returns to normal). It is extremely unintuitive that, by default, you cannot escape scale mode once you enable it, no matter what you try: click on the icon (doesn't work), click on the desktop (doesn't work), click on the panel (doesn't work), click on a random window (works, but brings that window on top even if you don't want that). I'm starting to think that some dogfooding could improve Unity significantly. Take the designers' Macs away and force them to use Unity exclusively for a couple of months and some of these "won't fix" issues might just be reconsidered. Hm, make that Unity+Inkscape+GIMP and record their reactions, too. (Yes, I'm being ridiculous here. Mostly. It's obvious that this bug report is now dead.) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/24 Sebastien Bacher > Some extra comments: > > > When the window of a program/application is already focused and you > click the corresponding launcher icon (of that program) you expect > usually that something happens > > You might do, but non technical users might get really confused if they > dialog go away because they click on the "show me the application" icon > twice by error (double click instead of simple click for example) > > Citation needed - otherwise this is no better than the anecdotal evidence provided here by users that this behavior *is* confusing and unintuitive. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
Just make it as Docky. On a click when; 1) If all windows are visible, all windows should minimize. 2) If one of the windows of the same group is minimized, but others are visbible it should restore all windows 3) If all windows are minimized, **all** of them restore old position I see no ambiguity in this, it is behaviour I learned to like for as long as I used Docky, it is intuitive and I see no problems with this flow. Don't make it more complicated then it is, but offering no minimize but only restore is silly. It requires me to do a whole lot more mousework if I quickly want to toggle a browser window to the front and back when for example I read API docs when I am developing in Eclipse. I am not using Unity right now, for that specific reason, it drives me crazy that it seems to be 'off' behaviour wise. Every task mamager works like that and worked like that for ages. Don't break this expected behaviour, so yes in my eyes it is a bug. - Jorgen On 06/23/2011 02:50 PM, The Fiddler wrote: > 2011/6/23 Sam Spilsbury > >>> >>> 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in >>> which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make >>> clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members >>> because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not >>> post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix >>> bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work >>> for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely >>> ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. >> >> Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the >> direction of the design of the project. The design team and the >> ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for >> Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with >> the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the >> product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different >> to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with >> module proposals and the like. >> > > Indeed. But as you can see from the community response to this design > choice, there *is* an issue here and this issue might merit reconsideration > in the design. SRoesgen summed things up succinctly: when you click on an > icon, you expect something to happen. When nothing happens, the icon feels > broken. > > *What* should happen is something that the design team can and should > consider. A few people have suggested minimization - rejected - but there > are other, potentially even better, possibilities. > > Why am I being so persistent here? Because several users I support have > commented on this behavior spontaneously - and I had nothing better to offer > other than "it's by design" (reply: "what?") and that Unity is still under > heavy development (reply: "ah, so they'll fix it"). > > Anecdotal evidence but easily reproducible. Just place someone in front an > Ubuntu laptop, let him go about his daily tasks (browsing, messaging, maybe > edit a document) and have him comment on his actions and feelings. It won't > take long, especially if he uses a low-resolution monitor (e.g. 1366x768) > which requires frequent window management. > -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/6/23 Sam Spilsbury > > > > 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in > > which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make > > clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members > > because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not > > post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix > > bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work > > for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely > > ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. > > Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the > direction of the design of the project. The design team and the > ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for > Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with > the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the > product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different > to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with > module proposals and the like. > Indeed. But as you can see from the community response to this design choice, there *is* an issue here and this issue might merit reconsideration in the design. SRoesgen summed things up succinctly: when you click on an icon, you expect something to happen. When nothing happens, the icon feels broken. *What* should happen is something that the design team can and should consider. A few people have suggested minimization - rejected - but there are other, potentially even better, possibilities. Why am I being so persistent here? Because several users I support have commented on this behavior spontaneously - and I had nothing better to offer other than "it's by design" (reply: "what?") and that Unity is still under heavy development (reply: "ah, so they'll fix it"). Anecdotal evidence but easily reproducible. Just place someone in front an Ubuntu laptop, let him go about his daily tasks (browsing, messaging, maybe edit a document) and have him comment on his actions and feelings. It won't take long, especially if he uses a low-resolution monitor (e.g. 1366x768) which requires frequent window management. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
> > 2) You (meaning Canonical) accept the fact that people post requests in > which they demand changes to the system. But Canonical should then make > clear that they do not want any extra work from non-canonical members > because they are not willing to maintain patches from users. So do not > post any messages on planet.ubuntu or anywhere to get people to fix > bugs, as I deem this insolent. Canonical cannot request users to work > for free on those bugs they deem worthy to be worked on but completely > ignore those bugs in which they are not interested. Bugfixing is not the same as adding functionality or changing the direction of the design of the project. The design team and the ayatana community have worked hard to create a design vision for Unity, and it is clear that we want something that is consistent with the goals of Canonical Design and Ayatana. Thus, those who create the product have a voice in the direction it goes in. This is no different to the way it works in KDE, or GNOME or any other distribution with module proposals and the like. On the other hand, we actively encourage developers to submit patches and create branches which enhance the product based on the overall vision of the product or fix things which do not work in the way that they are supposed to work in the product. That kind of participation is beneficial for everybody, because it means that everyone is working on a project with a similar vision rather than a fragmented vision. I wouldn't frame this as "free work", that's missing the entire point of the community around the Unity (and compiz) projects. I've met our contributors personally and I can see that they share the exact same vision as everybody else on the Desktop Experience team and the Design Team. There are going to be points of contention where the vision diverges in small places. However, I can say that from my many years of working "for free" in open source communities and projects, it is as much as being valued as a member of the team as it is achieving a vision that you want too. People contribute because they are passionate about the project, just as Canonical employees choose to work for Canonical because they are passionate about making Ubuntu win. > You received this bug notification because you are a member of Unity > Bugs, which is subscribed to unity in Ubuntu. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 > > Title: > Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon > > Status in Ayatana Design: > Won't Fix > Status in Unity: > Won't Fix > Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: > Won't Fix > > Bug description: > What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to click > on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of that > application, not only to launch/restore it. > mlaverdiere's futher addition: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 > > My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like > this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): > > 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; > *2) restore it, if it is minimized; > *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus yet; > 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows open; > *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions > -- Sam Spilsbury -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
There is no PPA yet. Em 20/06/2011 15:37, "qmax" <733...@bugs.launchpad.net>escreveu: Are there any reasons to remove the feature, beside Shuttleworth's vision of complicatness? Here in comments i found only pros. Is there discussion elsewhere? Is there binary package or ppa available with Marco patch applied? -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to unity. https://bugs.launchpad -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
I'm pretty sure someone has already written a patch, either here or in the related ayatana discussion. In this case, it's just a matter of reviewing and approving the patch. It would be a shame to ignore one of the most subscribed-to bugs for Natty. 2011/6/20 Dimitris Papageorgiou <733...@bugs.launchpad.net> > "Adding minimise will add complications..." > > Did I miss the part where you now have to be a complete idiot to be able > to use ubuntu? > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug > report. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 > > Title: > Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon > > Status in Ayatana Design: > Won't Fix > Status in Unity: > Won't Fix > Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: > Won't Fix > > Bug description: > What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to > click on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of > that application, not only to launch/restore it. > mlaverdiere's futher addition: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 > > My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like > this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): > > 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; > *2) restore it, if it is minimized; > *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus > yet; > 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows > open; > *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). > > To manage notifications about this bug go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions > -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
It is quite odd if it is not implemented. Every window manager does it. Windows XP, Docky under Ubuntu, AWN, even pressing twice on the taskbar under traditional Gnome restores and minimizes the window. I urge to reconsider this trivial but essential piece of functionality. - Jorgen On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:09:36 -, John Lea wrote: > ** Changed in: ayatana-design >Status: New => Won't Fix > > ** Changed in: ayatana-design >Importance: Low => Undecided -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
You, sir, are a hero! Intuitive, great-looking *and* toggleable. It's perfect :) 2011/5/18 Bazon > @Marco Biscaro: > Great! That is the way it should look! It's also very intuitive: You click > on the launcher, the window minimizes right there. That just looks right. > Good work! :-) > > -- > You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber > of the bug. > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 > > Title: > Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon > > Status in Ayatana Design: > New > Status in Unity: > Won't Fix > Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu: > Won't Fix > > Bug description: > What I do miss in Natty (Alpha 3 + daily builds) is the possibility to > click on the app. icon on the Unity launcher bar to minimize all windows of > that application, not only to launch/restore it. > mlaverdiere's futher addition: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/2 > > My suggestion would be to modify the interaction-design/process like > this (*=my modification proposal/2 cents!): > > 1) start it, if it hasn't been started yet; > *2) restore it, if it is minimized; > *3) focus the app, if it's started, not minimized and has not the focus > yet; > 4) spread windows (of app), if app is focused and has multiple windows > open; > *5) minimize it if it is in spread-mode (see 4). > > To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscribe > -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/5/17 Ed Lin <733...@bugs.launchpad.net> > Back to the real topic: > Good. > "all windows belonging to an application" is the same as "the application" > from a Linux user's perspective. Both would work for them. That doesn't mean > the chosen terminology doesn't matter to the user at all. I already > delivered the counterargument (in fact "argument" because there -still- is > nothing to counter) but I'll repeat it in case it got lost somehow: > "All windows of an application" is not the same for: > - OS X users (the only app-centric desktop interface that already had > "users" to speak of) > - people confused by "all windows of an application" vs. "all windows on > the desktop" > - Interface designers using accurate terminology (those aren't "users" but > bug reports aren't really intended for users either) > This bug report explicitly refers to "Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon ". Not "minimize application" but "minimize application windows". The fact that applications without visible windows exist is *completely irrelevant* to this bug report and resulting discussion. > As for minimize vs hide: > One minimizes a window *to* a taskbar button (usually depicted graphically > by a "_" or "v" like sign), while the other "hides" a window completely, > it's gone from the desktop. It's not just a question of terminology (which > *is* important when we are discussing interface design). The difference has > important consequences for the user. Hidden windows behave very differently > in a mental model, a user has to be somehow reminded that they are still > open, he needs to know beforehand how to get the window "back" (animations > can only be hints that which don't really change that). Minimized windows > are simple, on a busy desktop they behave just like open windows behind > other windows. > Great. This bug report is about *minimizing* windows, so please open a different one for hide vs minimization and/or terminology matters. The rest is line noise that has little to do with the topic at hand. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 733349] Re: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon
2011/5/16 Ed Lin <733...@bugs.launchpad.net> > The Fiddler wrote: > >> I don't think so: the launcher is used to create a new *window* for an > >> application or to bring the *window* of that application up. As far I > know, > >> applications that does not have a window can not be pinned (and aren't > even > >> shown) in launcher. > >> > > > > Not only that, but the launcher can be used to *quit* an application. > Isn't > > that "completely inconsistent, illogical and simply *wrong*"? > > > > This is getting ridiculous. > > "Exactly". This *is* ridiculous. Please read up on the application and > window-centric interface paradigms. I've posted about this on the > mailing list several times and you can find other resources if you don't > like listening to me. > The requested functionality does not break the application-centric paradigm. Please try to pay a little more attention to what is being suggested here and in the ayatana mailing list. Let me reiterate: people wish to click on the launcher icon to hide the application, i.e. *all* windows belonging to that application. This is 100% equivalent to the "Quit" button we have now. I hope this is clear to you. If you have a counter-argument please write it. As for terminology: it doesn't matter. Call it minimize or hide, it. doesn't. matter. Personally, I would really appreciate it if you paid a little more attention to what they wrote, without preconceived ideas about what you think they wrote. I don't think no one is going to be mislead by the previous titles. Most > people complaining about this feature will not be content if it is > implemented as in post #58. Many want the old task bar like minimizing back > and this bug IS NOT about this issue. I've just opened a new bug for just > this problem (among others): > Good, because gnome-panel-like minimization is not what people are requesting here. That's a totally different issue. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Minimize Application's Windows upon clicking it's Launcher Icon -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
