Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hello Theo dear colleagues I did some further investigations in order to respond to your inquiry and due personal interest - you might remember the discussion at the event "OSS an Schulen" and the concepts & architectures sketched. The Ubuntu installed on a stick 'somewhere' (very old PC) could easily be used when attached to various systems (very modern Laptops, for example). Sound, compositing effects, WLAN do work right away. BUT: on all systems tested, performance compared to booting from internal harddisks is considerably degraded. You should carefully study data transfer rates of the stick in use as this becomes crucial. Due to these base conditions you might also question the solution proposed to your friend - is it worth to waste about 30-50% of a machine's performance for the sake of the mobile-system-on-a-stick? What about having only /home/ on the stick? Regards, Daniel Stoni schrieb: > Hi Theo, please find some comments below. > > Theo Schmidt schrieb: >> Wolf Geldmacher schrieb: >> > Hi Theo, >> > >> > I'd like to second Dani's suggestion to do a plain install instead. >> > >> > I've just done a plain install of Swiss-Remix 9.04 treating the (8GB) USB >> > Stick like a hard drive attached to USB. This works and results in a >> system >> > that is faster and also updatabe/patchable with a lot less waste of space: >> > the r/w live-system I previously had on the same stick (and for me the >> > supplied USB install on the Swiss-Remix DVD "just worked") could not be >> > brought to the current patch level - it ran out of space way before >> > finishing. >> > >> > One additional remark - when doing it this way make sure that the root FS >> > is mounted with the "relatime" or "noatime" option in /etc/fstab - >> otherwise >> > you might find that you are wearing the memory stick too fast. >> >> >> Hi Wolf and Dani, >> >> Thank you for your suggestions. I've now tried hard (about ten times) to do >> a >> plain install, using two different computers and two different Swiss-Remix >> 9.04 >> DVDs. Unfortunately I've not been able to. At first the installer kept >> complaining about not being able create file systems. After using gparted >> manually, it became possible, but the installer broke off half way claiming >> copying errors, leaving half a system on the stick. After that, no amount of >> reformatting could induce the installer to regain its former behaviour. Much >> of >> the problem seems to be that Ubuntu seems to automatically mount the >> partitions >> on the USB-stick and can't unmount them (or keeps remounting them). On one >> of >> the rare occasions where it worked the installation wnet about halfway and >> ubibiquity quit with an unspecified error. With my hardware, it seems >> impossible >> to install Swiss Remix onto a stick without resorting to command-line >> methods or >> third-party tools. > > In practise one must understand that there are different ways how usb > sticks are driven by the BIOS. There is not the level of reliability > comparable to usb disks. The combination of PC and stick does matter. > Occasionally, sticks are recognized as CDROMs instead of as harddisks. > It can depend also on the way how they the sticks are partitioned. Then > I've heard of suspend/resume not working. >>From own testing - with original 9.04 - I can confirm that installation > from CD onto the stick seems shaky (on a 4 year old PC) and, > interesting, very time consuming. > > >> Another observation: >> I've you don't take care and click the "erweitert" button near the end of >> the >> installer wizard, it will put the boot-loader on your hard disk instead of >> the >> USB-stick. > > Obvious. > >> A question: >> Even if I had been successful, would the plain install on a stick have been >> any >> use for sending on to my brother-in-law for use on an entirely different >> computer than the one which installed the system? Presumably plain >> installations >> transfer some hardware information to the system. This was the reason I >> wanted a >> frugal install, which does the hardware detection with each boot. > > OSes have much developed since. One remaining area of concern is > /etc/X11/xorg.conf - in case you find one on the stick you might want to > remove it in order to force video detection. Other recent hardware - > sound or networking equipment in particular - is recognized during boot > process and very few specific settings are made during installation. In > short: The chances are good to find this working. I will do some tests > on my own and collect some stories from the web. I'll let you the results. > > Regards, Dani >> Cheers, Theo >> > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hi Theo, please find some comments below. Theo Schmidt schrieb: > Wolf Geldmacher schrieb: > > Hi Theo, > > > > I'd like to second Dani's suggestion to do a plain install instead. > > > > I've just done a plain install of Swiss-Remix 9.04 treating the (8GB) USB > > Stick like a hard drive attached to USB. This works and results in a system > > that is faster and also updatabe/patchable with a lot less waste of space: > > the r/w live-system I previously had on the same stick (and for me the > > supplied USB install on the Swiss-Remix DVD "just worked") could not be > > brought to the current patch level - it ran out of space way before > > finishing. > > > > One additional remark - when doing it this way make sure that the root FS > > is mounted with the "relatime" or "noatime" option in /etc/fstab - > otherwise > > you might find that you are wearing the memory stick too fast. > > > Hi Wolf and Dani, > > Thank you for your suggestions. I've now tried hard (about ten times) to do a > plain install, using two different computers and two different Swiss-Remix > 9.04 > DVDs. Unfortunately I've not been able to. At first the installer kept > complaining about not being able create file systems. After using gparted > manually, it became possible, but the installer broke off half way claiming > copying errors, leaving half a system on the stick. After that, no amount of > reformatting could induce the installer to regain its former behaviour. Much > of > the problem seems to be that Ubuntu seems to automatically mount the > partitions > on the USB-stick and can't unmount them (or keeps remounting them). On one of > the rare occasions where it worked the installation wnet about halfway and > ubibiquity quit with an unspecified error. With my hardware, it seems > impossible > to install Swiss Remix onto a stick without resorting to command-line methods > or > third-party tools. In practise one must understand that there are different ways how usb sticks are driven by the BIOS. There is not the level of reliability comparable to usb disks. The combination of PC and stick does matter. Occasionally, sticks are recognized as CDROMs instead of as harddisks. It can depend also on the way how they the sticks are partitioned. Then I've heard of suspend/resume not working. >From own testing - with original 9.04 - I can confirm that installation from CD onto the stick seems shaky (on a 4 year old PC) and, interesting, very time consuming. > Another observation: > I've you don't take care and click the "erweitert" button near the end of the > installer wizard, it will put the boot-loader on your hard disk instead of > the > USB-stick. Obvious. > > A question: > Even if I had been successful, would the plain install on a stick have been > any > use for sending on to my brother-in-law for use on an entirely different > computer than the one which installed the system? Presumably plain > installations > transfer some hardware information to the system. This was the reason I > wanted a > frugal install, which does the hardware detection with each boot. OSes have much developed since. One remaining area of concern is /etc/X11/xorg.conf - in case you find one on the stick you might want to remove it in order to force video detection. Other recent hardware - sound or networking equipment in particular - is recognized during boot process and very few specific settings are made during installation. In short: The chances are good to find this working. I will do some tests on my own and collect some stories from the web. I'll let you the results. Regards, Dani > > Cheers, Theo > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Wolf Geldmacher schrieb: > Hi Theo, > > I'd like to second Dani's suggestion to do a plain install instead. > > I've just done a plain install of Swiss-Remix 9.04 treating the (8GB) USB > Stick like a hard drive attached to USB. This works and results in a system > that is faster and also updatabe/patchable with a lot less waste of space: > the r/w live-system I previously had on the same stick (and for me the > supplied USB install on the Swiss-Remix DVD "just worked") could not be > brought to the current patch level - it ran out of space way before > finishing. > > One additional remark - when doing it this way make sure that the root FS > is mounted with the "relatime" or "noatime" option in /etc/fstab - otherwise > you might find that you are wearing the memory stick too fast. Hi Wolf and Dani, Thank you for your suggestions. I've now tried hard (about ten times) to do a plain install, using two different computers and two different Swiss-Remix 9.04 DVDs. Unfortunately I've not been able to. At first the installer kept complaining about not being able create file systems. After using gparted manually, it became possible, but the installer broke off half way claiming copying errors, leaving half a system on the stick. After that, no amount of reformatting could induce the installer to regain its former behaviour. Much of the problem seems to be that Ubuntu seems to automatically mount the partitions on the USB-stick and can't unmount them (or keeps remounting them). On one of the rare occasions where it worked the installation wnet about halfway and ubibiquity quit with an unspecified error. With my hardware, it seems impossible to install Swiss Remix onto a stick without resorting to command-line methods or third-party tools. Another observation: I've you don't take care and click the "erweitert" button near the end of the installer wizard, it will put the boot-loader on your hard disk instead of the USB-stick. A question: Even if I had been successful, would the plain install on a stick have been any use for sending on to my brother-in-law for use on an entirely different computer than the one which installed the system? Presumably plain installations transfer some hardware information to the system. This was the reason I wanted a frugal install, which does the hardware detection with each boot. Cheers, Theo -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hello Wolf, thank for your support and having shared your insight. In case you have ideas or areas of concern you would like to discuss about, don't hesitate to contact me. Regards, Daniel *** Wolf Geldmacher schrieb: > Hi Theo, > > I'd like to second Dani's suggestion to do a plain install instead. > > I've just done a plain install of Swiss-Remix 9.04 treating the (8GB) USB > Stick like a hard drive attached to USB. This works and results in a system > that is faster and also updatabe/patchable with a lot less waste of space: > the r/w live-system I previously had on the same stick (and for me the > supplied USB install on the Swiss-Remix DVD "just worked") could not be > brought to the current patch level - it ran out of space way before > finishing. > > One additional remark - when doing it this way make sure that the root FS > is mounted with the "relatime" or "noatime" option in /etc/fstab - otherwise > you might find that you are wearing the memory stick too fast. > > Cheers, > Wolf > > Am Monday 19 October 2009 11:44:57 schrieb Theo Schmidt: >> Hi Dani and all >> >> I'm trying to make a useful Swiss Remix 9.04 USB Stick with persistent home >> for my brother-in-law who lives in Brazil. Several attempts on two >> different PCs still leave me with a not very useful solution. There are two >> issues: booting speed and persistent home: >> >> 1) Booting speed >> On an older 2.8 GHz PC the booting speed is 3 minutes, just like the DVD. >> This is just acceptable. On the other PC, an ASUS Pundit, it takes 8 >> minutes, more than twice as with the DVD. With both PCs the stick is >> clearly processing data because its LED blinks rapidly, but the intitial >> Ubuntu screen doesn't go away as it usually does - it is disabled however. >> The progress bar (or rather the "non-progress" bar which just goes back and >> forht) doesn't come on until some minutes have passed. This is confusing. >> Daniel Stoni tells me that he hasn' had this problem. Any ideas? >> >> 2) Ubuntu comes with a super tool which should allow the automatic creation >> of bootable USB-Sticks: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator It also offers to >> create a persistent home. The only trouble is, it doesn't work. It does >> create a file of the specified size called casper-rw which is writable and >> executable by all and appears to format this in some way, but any data >> stored when using the live-system isn't persistent. Dani told me it was a >> bug, but the bug appears to be in Ubuntu 8.04 and corrected since 8.04.3. >> There seem to be lots of people with this problem and numerous solutions, >> (most rather complicated). Anybody know of a simple solution for 9.04? I >> did try some other tools mentioned in >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_to_create_Live_USB_systems >> UNetbootin doesn't offer persistence and in any case refused to accept my >> USB-Stick. PortableLinux only does CD, not DVD images and also doesn't >> accept my USB-Stick. (UbuntuLiveUSBcreator also complained about not being >> able to determine the partition number, but after reformatting it was OK. >> Reformatting doesn't help with the other tools.) >> >> Again, Dani tells me he has no problems and anyway I should use a real >> install instead of a frugal install, but I prefer this for demo purposes, >> because you can't really damage a frugal install (you can damage a >> persistent home, of course). However my experience indicates that USB-media >> with Ubuntu are more of an art than a science. Any of you have better >> experiences? It must be possible, because I have never had problems with >> Puppy, DSL, or Lernstick >> http://www.imedias.ch/lernstick >> The last in particular seems to work with any stick or SD-card and also >> offers a boot CD for those PCs which can't boot from USB. >> >> Cheers, Theo > > > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Myriam Schweingruber schrieb: ... > For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a > persistent live USB install, see: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent > > That might help more than wikipages not related to the Ubuntu project... Thank you, Myriam (and others). Yes, I missed those. They describe the methods on the Wikipedia pages plus a few more. Unfortunately I was unable to do more than test my original attempt before my brother-in-law left. On his new HP laptop with a Turion something processor, boot time was 2 minutes with the correct bahaviour of the splash screens. I am surprised at the great variation of the same USB-Stick on different machines. Contrary to my previous statement, the touchscreen does work with the live-Ubuntu automagically! Its behaviour is different than with Windows: there you can use your finger or the stylus supplied, with Ubuntu it works with the stylus, but not with fingers, an advantage for some things. Cheers, Theo -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hi Theo, I'd like to second Dani's suggestion to do a plain install instead. I've just done a plain install of Swiss-Remix 9.04 treating the (8GB) USB Stick like a hard drive attached to USB. This works and results in a system that is faster and also updatabe/patchable with a lot less waste of space: the r/w live-system I previously had on the same stick (and for me the supplied USB install on the Swiss-Remix DVD "just worked") could not be brought to the current patch level - it ran out of space way before finishing. One additional remark - when doing it this way make sure that the root FS is mounted with the "relatime" or "noatime" option in /etc/fstab - otherwise you might find that you are wearing the memory stick too fast. Cheers, Wolf Am Monday 19 October 2009 11:44:57 schrieb Theo Schmidt: > Hi Dani and all > > I'm trying to make a useful Swiss Remix 9.04 USB Stick with persistent home > for my brother-in-law who lives in Brazil. Several attempts on two > different PCs still leave me with a not very useful solution. There are two > issues: booting speed and persistent home: > > 1) Booting speed > On an older 2.8 GHz PC the booting speed is 3 minutes, just like the DVD. > This is just acceptable. On the other PC, an ASUS Pundit, it takes 8 > minutes, more than twice as with the DVD. With both PCs the stick is > clearly processing data because its LED blinks rapidly, but the intitial > Ubuntu screen doesn't go away as it usually does - it is disabled however. > The progress bar (or rather the "non-progress" bar which just goes back and > forht) doesn't come on until some minutes have passed. This is confusing. > Daniel Stoni tells me that he hasn' had this problem. Any ideas? > > 2) Ubuntu comes with a super tool which should allow the automatic creation > of bootable USB-Sticks: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator It also offers to > create a persistent home. The only trouble is, it doesn't work. It does > create a file of the specified size called casper-rw which is writable and > executable by all and appears to format this in some way, but any data > stored when using the live-system isn't persistent. Dani told me it was a > bug, but the bug appears to be in Ubuntu 8.04 and corrected since 8.04.3. > There seem to be lots of people with this problem and numerous solutions, > (most rather complicated). Anybody know of a simple solution for 9.04? I > did try some other tools mentioned in > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_to_create_Live_USB_systems > UNetbootin doesn't offer persistence and in any case refused to accept my > USB-Stick. PortableLinux only does CD, not DVD images and also doesn't > accept my USB-Stick. (UbuntuLiveUSBcreator also complained about not being > able to determine the partition number, but after reformatting it was OK. > Reformatting doesn't help with the other tools.) > > Again, Dani tells me he has no problems and anyway I should use a real > install instead of a frugal install, but I prefer this for demo purposes, > because you can't really damage a frugal install (you can damage a > persistent home, of course). However my experience indicates that USB-media > with Ubuntu are more of an art than a science. Any of you have better > experiences? It must be possible, because I have never had problems with > Puppy, DSL, or Lernstick > http://www.imedias.ch/lernstick > The last in particular seems to work with any stick or SD-card and also > offers a boot CD for those PCs which can't boot from USB. > > Cheers, Theo -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
Re: [Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hi Theo, On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:44, Theo Schmidt wrote: > Hi Dani and all > > I'm trying to make a useful Swiss Remix 9.04 USB Stick with persistent home > for > my brother-in-law who lives in Brazil. Several attempts on two different PCs > still leave me with a not very useful solution. There are two issues: booting > speed and persistent home: You should have a look at the Ubuntu wiki in the first place: Ubottu (the IRC boton #ubuntu et al.) gives me the following for !usb: For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent That might help more than wikipages not related to the Ubuntu project... Regards, Myriam. -- Protect your freedom and join the Fellowship of FSFE: http://www.fsfe.org Please don't send me proprietary file formats, use ISO standard ODF instead (ISO/IEC 26300) -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
[Ubuntu-ch] Problems with USB-Sticks and Swiss Remix
Hi Dani and all I'm trying to make a useful Swiss Remix 9.04 USB Stick with persistent home for my brother-in-law who lives in Brazil. Several attempts on two different PCs still leave me with a not very useful solution. There are two issues: booting speed and persistent home: 1) Booting speed On an older 2.8 GHz PC the booting speed is 3 minutes, just like the DVD. This is just acceptable. On the other PC, an ASUS Pundit, it takes 8 minutes, more than twice as with the DVD. With both PCs the stick is clearly processing data because its LED blinks rapidly, but the intitial Ubuntu screen doesn't go away as it usually does - it is disabled however. The progress bar (or rather the "non-progress" bar which just goes back and forht) doesn't come on until some minutes have passed. This is confusing. Daniel Stoni tells me that he hasn' had this problem. Any ideas? 2) Ubuntu comes with a super tool which should allow the automatic creation of bootable USB-Sticks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator It also offers to create a persistent home. The only trouble is, it doesn't work. It does create a file of the specified size called casper-rw which is writable and executable by all and appears to format this in some way, but any data stored when using the live-system isn't persistent. Dani told me it was a bug, but the bug appears to be in Ubuntu 8.04 and corrected since 8.04.3. There seem to be lots of people with this problem and numerous solutions, (most rather complicated). Anybody know of a simple solution for 9.04? I did try some other tools mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_to_create_Live_USB_systems UNetbootin doesn't offer persistence and in any case refused to accept my USB-Stick. PortableLinux only does CD, not DVD images and also doesn't accept my USB-Stick. (UbuntuLiveUSBcreator also complained about not being able to determine the partition number, but after reformatting it was OK. Reformatting doesn't help with the other tools.) Again, Dani tells me he has no problems and anyway I should use a real install instead of a frugal install, but I prefer this for demo purposes, because you can't really damage a frugal install (you can damage a persistent home, of course). However my experience indicates that USB-media with Ubuntu are more of an art than a science. Any of you have better experiences? It must be possible, because I have never had problems with Puppy, DSL, or Lernstick http://www.imedias.ch/lernstick The last in particular seems to work with any stick or SD-card and also offers a boot CD for those PCs which can't boot from USB. Cheers, Theo -- Ubuntu-ch mailing list Ubuntu-ch@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ch
