Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26

[Martin Pitt]

Hello all,

Jeremy Bicha [2017-04-25  7:33 -0400]:
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Sebastien Bacher  wrote:
> >> I expect several GNOME components to switch from autotools to meson this 
> >> cycle.
> > I didn't follow that closely, is that a reference documentation to read?
> 
> http://mesonbuild.com/documentation.html
> 
> > I think Debian tools are ready for it right?
> 
> To see which packages are already using meson, run
> reverse-depends -b meson
> reverse-depends -r sid -b meson
> 
> graphene [1] is developed by one of the GNOME developers so that might
> be a good place to look for example packaging.
> 
> Michael Biebl has added meson support to debhelper master, but a new
> version of debhelper hasn't been released with it yet.

FTR, upstream systemd is currently converting to meson [1], and we successfully
run builds of it both in Debian unstable as well as in Ubuntu 16.04 with
ninja+meson backports [2]. Not having debhelper support is not a big blocker --
either we could just upload and use debhelper git master, or directly call
meson in debian/rules, as we did in the systemd package for now [3].

Martin

[1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/5704
[2] https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd-semaphore/+packages
[3] 
https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/commit/?h=biebl/meson=bd3fbb82462ae3



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Announce: Moving session startup from upstart to systemd

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Ubuntu developers!

What is this about?
===
As discussed at UDS [1] we are moving away from using upstart to start
graphical desktop sessions, towards systemd (and D-Bus activations in
some cases where it's appropriate). Two weeks ago Sebastien Bacher,
Iain Lane, Ted Gould, and me had three-day sprint where we converted
most services of the Ubuntu session, and before/after I was working on
the necessary infrastructure in systemd and upstart, and
converted/checked most other flavors. This is now ready to land and
get wider testing.

Landing
===
The main "switch" is being done in the Exec= lines of the
corresponding /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop. Display managers use
these to show which sessions are available and to know how to start
them. This happend in ubuntu-desktop 3.18.1.2-1ubuntu5 [2] and
xubuntu-default-settings 16.10.1 [3], which just landed in Yakkety.
Other desktops like Kubuntu, Lubuntu etc. don't use upstart and thus
have not been converted; if you are interested in this, please talk to
me, or Sebastien/Iain (as I will be on holidays from next Wednesday
on).

With this, about half of your session will then be driven by systemd
units, check "systemctl --user status" and "initctl list|grep run"
before and after. unity itself, hud, and indicators are still run by
upstart -- their conversion is being prepared in CI train [4]. If you
want, you can get systemd units for those by enabling the staging PPA
[5] and installing the "systemd-graphical-session" package -- this
package and the PPA will become empty over time as things are being
landed.

Note that some upstart jobs like "dbus" or "gnome-session" will still
run -- their overrides change the program to be run to "sleep
infinity" so that they become stub jobs. This is necessary as we still
want their dependencies to get started until the transition gets
finished, i. e. all reverse upstart job dependencies of those stubs
get converted.

Next steps
==
We now need to provide systemd units for the remaining jobs. On
desktop (all flavors) it's pretty much complete with the PPA, the main
missing piece is to convert the unity greeter session. This is also
the only actual reverse dependency of "upstart" -- in a VM with the
PPA you can force-purge upstart and run a desktop entirely without
it. Indicators will be missing in the Unity greeter session in lightdm,
but they are not essential.

The bulk of the remaining work is to convert the Touch packages and
ubuntu-app-launch. There are also some workarounds in place for
missing functionality in systemd. All remaining work is being tracked
in the blueprint [1] and in bugs tagged with "systemd-session" [6].

D-Bus user session
==
The upstart → systemd transition also depends on/contains a separate
transition from a session-centric to user-centric D-Bus daemon and
services. A lot of D-Bus services like pulseaudio, gvfs, SSH agents,
keyring daemon etc. are useful to other parallel (non-graphical, i. e.
VT or ssh) logins of the same user, so these will now continue to live
until the last session of a particular user gets stopped. See e. g.
[7] for some details. This is being achieved by installing the
"dbus-user-session" package, on which the converted
ubuntu-session/xubuntu-default-settings packages now depend.  This
also caused some fallout mostly in policykit, gnome-keyring, and
AppArmor profiles, which all got fixed in Yakkety. There are no other
known issues with those at the moment, so if you notice anything else
please file a bug about it and tag it with "systemd-session".

Contingency plan

If this causes trouble, this can be switched back by reverting the
Exec= lines, in these two commits:

  
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-session/ubuntu/revision/343#debian/patches/50_ubuntu_sessions.patch
  (this commit has other changes, just the hunk in this file)

  
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/621

As an alternative, unless you removed upstart, you temporarily switch
back to the upstart jobs by editing /etc/X11/Xsession.d/00upstart and
replacing the line

if [ "${1#*.target}" != "$1" ]; then

with

if false && [ "${1#*.target}" != "$1" ]; then

(i. e. effectively disable the "if").

References
==
[1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-y-replace-upstart
[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.18.1.2-1ubuntu5
[3] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/16.10.1
[4] https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710
[5] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/systemd-session
[6] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-session
[7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/07/msg00484.html

Thanks,

Marti

Call for opinions: default naming policy for USB network interfaces: MAC/path/kernel?

[Martin Pitt]

stalls of Xenial, as we can't know whether
the user already set up anything that relies on the current names. So
systems upgraded from wily or current xenial will retain the MAC based
names, unless you manually remove the .link file in /etc (I'll explain
this in NEWS).

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2015-June/038786.html
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/05/msg00184.html
[3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/05/msg00218.html

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Re: Remove gst0.10 this cycle?

[Martin Pitt]

Bryan Quigley [2016-01-27 18:24 -0500]:
> wine1.6-amd64 - should just not try building with gstreamer -
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.6/+bug/1530229

Still outstanding.

> cutter-testing-framework - unsure of next step due to version numbers

I tried merging with Debian, but this has been FTBFS for a fair while
and removed from testing a while ago. I gave up after some 20 minutes
too, and now just removed the package as there are no reverse
dependencies.

> gcompris - Needs sync
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/1538783

Done by Timo.

> swac-get - unsure of next step due to version numbers

Not sure why this is on the list -- I see no gstreamer dependency
there?

> swac-play - Remove from archive? -
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/swac-play/+bug/1512874

Killed.

> gstreamer0.10-nice -> libfarstream-0.1-0 -> telepathy-qt5?
>- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-qt5/+bug/1538772
> 3 for one (at least to drop from main)

This is a bit messy -- t-qt5 is an Ubuntu specific split, and neither
t-qt nor t-qt5 have been updated recently. Aside from a Debian
packaging quirk this should mostly be a sync. I put packages into
https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/ppa, testing appreciated!

> libgstreamermm-0.10-2
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamermm/+bug/1512764
> This should have been autoremoved?

There are no auto-removals in Ubuntu, just some assisted manual
procedure which is painfully slow and apparently not being done any
more at all.

> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse -
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10/+bug/1515096
> Both Ubuntu and Xubuntu restricted extras depends on gst0.10 which
> doesn't make any sense.

Fixed restricted-extras, removed gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse.

> rhythmbox-radio-browser - Remove from archive
> -https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/1512863

Removed.

> gm-notify - just found, not sure yet.

Eww -- there is not a single dependency of that which is *not*
obsolete (pygtk, GTK 2, python-indicate, gconf, gstreamer 0.10, not
even mentioning Python 2 itself), and there's no way that this still
works properly. Removed.

> Thoughts on trying to remove gstreamer0.10 all for Xenial?

Yes please :-)

Martin
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Re: Remove gst0.10 this cycle?

[Martin Pitt]

Bryan Quigley [2016-03-09 14:40 -0500]:
> Unfortunately it seems we still have wxwidgets2.8 (which depends on
> gst0.1) which has been removed from Debian some time ago.  I'm
> tracking some of those with this tag -
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wxw2.8.

I cleaned up most of these. There was one more reverse dependency left
(amule-adunanza) which I removed as well (LP #1555436).

So the only remaining blocker for this is wxbanker (#1544170). In
theory this is also a candidate for removal, as it also has no reverse
dependencies, but as upstream responded there it seemed a bit rude to
remove it now. But I pinged the bug about a new upstream release.

Martin

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[Merge] lp:~kaihengfeng/unity-settings-daemon/add-brightness-limit-mechanism into lp:unity-settings-daemon

[Martin Pitt]

You have been requested to review the proposed merge of 
lp:~kaihengfeng/unity-settings-daemon/add-brightness-limit-mechanism into 
lp:unity-settings-daemon.

For more details, see:
https://code.launchpad.net/~kaihengfeng/unity-settings-daemon/add-brightness-limit-mechanism/+merge/277416

Add a mechanism that can make user to choose the minimum/maximum adjustable 
brightness level.

-- 
Your team Ubuntu Desktop is requested to review the proposed merge of 
lp:~kaihengfeng/unity-settings-daemon/add-brightness-limit-mechanism into 
lp:unity-settings-daemon.
=== modified file 'plugins/power/gpm-common.c'
--- plugins/power/gpm-common.c	2014-06-26 00:02:19 +
+++ plugins/power/gpm-common.c	2015-11-13 07:45:35 +
@@ -1414,7 +1414,10 @@
 }
 
 int
-backlight_get_percentage (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen, GError **error)
+backlight_get_percentage (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen,
+  gfloat min_percentage,
+  gfloat max_percentage,
+  GError **error)
 {
 GsdRROutput *output;
 gint now;
@@ -1429,6 +1432,8 @@
 min = gsd_rr_output_get_backlight_min (output);
 max = gsd_rr_output_get_backlight_max (output);
 now = gsd_rr_output_get_backlight (output, error);
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 if (now < 0)
 goto out;
 value = ABS_TO_PERCENTAGE (min, max, now);
@@ -1442,6 +1447,8 @@
 now = backlight_helper_get_value ("get-brightness", error);
 if (now < 0)
 goto out;
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 value = ABS_TO_PERCENTAGE (min, max, now);
 out:
 return value;
@@ -1488,6 +1495,8 @@
 gboolean
 backlight_set_percentage (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen,
   guint value,
+  gfloat min_percentage,
+  gfloat max_percentage,
   GError **error)
 {
 GsdRROutput *output;
@@ -1505,6 +1514,8 @@
 g_warning ("no xrandr backlight capability");
 return ret;
 }
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 discrete = PERCENTAGE_TO_ABS (min, max, value);
 ret = gsd_rr_output_set_backlight (output,
  discrete,
@@ -1516,6 +1527,8 @@
 max = backlight_helper_get_value ("get-max-brightness", error);
 if (max < 0)
 return ret;
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 discrete = PERCENTAGE_TO_ABS (min, max, value);
 ret = backlight_helper_set_value ("set-brightness",
   discrete,
@@ -1525,7 +1538,10 @@
 }
 
 int
-backlight_step_up (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen, GError **error)
+backlight_step_up (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen,
+   gfloat min_percentage,
+   gfloat max_percentage,
+   GError **error)
 {
 GsdRROutput *output;
 gboolean ret = FALSE;
@@ -1555,6 +1571,8 @@
 now = gsd_rr_output_get_backlight (output, error);
 if (now < 0)
return percentage_value;
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 step = BRIGHTNESS_STEP_AMOUNT (max - min + 1);
 discrete = MIN (now + step, max);
 ret = gsd_rr_output_set_backlight (output,
@@ -1572,6 +1590,8 @@
 max = backlight_helper_get_value ("get-max-brightness", error);
 if (max < 0)
 return percentage_value;
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 step = BRIGHTNESS_STEP_AMOUNT (max - min + 1);
 discrete = MIN (now + step, max);
 ret = backlight_helper_set_value ("set-brightness",
@@ -1584,7 +1604,10 @@
 }
 
 int
-backlight_step_down (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen, GError **error)
+backlight_step_down (GsdRRScreen *rr_screen,
+ gfloat min_percentage,
+ gfloat max_percentage,
+ GError **error)
 {
 GsdRROutput *output;
 gboolean ret = FALSE;
@@ -1614,8 +1637,10 @@
 now = gsd_rr_output_get_backlight (output, error);
 if (now < 0)
return percentage_value;
+min = MAX (min, max * min_percentage);
+max = max * max_percentage;
 step = BRIGHTNESS_STEP_AMOUNT (max - min + 1);
-discrete = MAX (now - step, 0);
+discrete = MAX (now - step, min);
 ret = gsd_rr_output_set_backlight (output,
  

Re: Usability for touch typers: Keeping fingers on F and J

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Thomas,

Thomas Güttler [2014-11-18  9:23 +0100]:
 Are there any touch typers out there? Don't you feel the pain when
 pressing Backspace?  That's not ergonomic - and at least I - press
 this key very often.

I exclusively touch-type, and indeed every move to the mouse or
someplace else is a nuisance. After I got RSI I got myself a Kinesis
Advantage keyboard (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/products/) some 10
years ago, which solves both the RSI and the outward keys are hard to
reach problem very elegantly. Took me some 3 days to adjust, but I
don't want to give it away any more :-)

Martin

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Re: Ubuntu 14.10 onwards: Convergence is coming...

[Martin Pitt]

Robert Ancell [2014-04-16  9:52 +1200]:
 I agree this is an enormous change but the reality of what convergence
 means. We want the same apps to run on the phone as the desktop so
 when you dock your phone the apps work in both form factors.

I'm not so sure about that. To me, convergence primarily means that I
can use my phone as a proper phone, and get a proper desktop when I
plug it in, and all my documents/music/videos/etc. are continuing to
work. Also, being able to install both click and classic Ubuntu
packages. So it's primarily a matter of data compatibility (both user
and system level).

It doesn't matter that much if in desktop mode we use a different
music player or image viewer, as long as they both show the same files
(yay XDG dirs). I don't think it's a big win to drop all our existing
desktop applications all of a sudden and throw huge amounts of work in
essentially reimplementing them.

It's a much bigger and urgent problem to be able to provide a
phone/desktop image which can work with click apps and image based
upgrades but at the same time allows you to install classic Ubuntu
packages. That problem is never going to go away, so solving that
seems much more urgent to me.

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: Ubuntu 14.10 onwards: Convergence is coming...

[Martin Pitt]

Sebastien Bacher [2014-04-16 10:09 +0200]:
 Well, one point where it matters (at least a bit) is that if you dock
 your phone you ideally want your music to keep playing. If the phone and
 desktop modes have different players it becomes trickier to have a
 smooth transition and not loose part of the context you had (we need
 to make sure that e.g playing continues, the play queue stays the same, etc)

Yes, for sure. I wasn't saying that it doesn't matter to make our
phone apps desktop-compatible, just that I think that we have more
fundamental problems to solve first for an actual convergence
story.

Thanks,

Martin
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Re: Fwd: Call for testing - unity-control-center (fork of gnome-control-center so we can stay on an old version)

[Martin Pitt]

Dimitri John Ledkov [2013-12-11  8:54 +]:
 Well, it's managed by session upstart, so one could simply do/trigger
 $ restart indicator-session

Nope, postinst runs in a system/root context, not in a desktop
session:

# restart indicator-session
restart: Unknown job: indicator-session

pkill'ing *all* running session indicators is quite a large hammer
indeed. But requiring a session restart isn't that big of a deal, I
was just bringing it up as a possibility.

Martin

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Re: Fwd: Call for testing - unity-control-center (fork of gnome-control-center so we can stay on an old version)

[Martin Pitt]

Dimitri John Ledkov [2013-12-11  9:05 +]:
 I see what you mean. one could iterate all user sessions and restart
 indicator-session in each one, but that is also intrusive.

That sounds interesting, and would avoid pkilling processes that you
run in chroots, source trees, etc. How would you do this?

Martin

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Re: Call for testing - unity-control-center (fork of gnome-control-center so we can stay on an old version)

[Martin Pitt]

Hey Robert,

Robert Ancell [2013-12-12 16:21 +1300]:
  The upgrade went fine, and it replaced most of the
  gnome-control-center* packages with the unity-* counterparts, except
  for gnome-control-center-data
 [...]
 u-c-c doesn't need this package.

Good, all is well then.

 It is only depended on by gnome-control-center. The only way that it
 will be removed is by an apt-get autoremove right?

Or by adding a Breaks:/Replaces:, to clean up. But this is a bit
tricky as people might actually want to install the (future) real
g-c-c in parallel, so they need to be versioned to the saucy version.

  After upgrading, the menu entry from the session indicator doesn't
  work. This needs a pkill -f indicator-session-service or a reboot;
  could the pkill perhaps be put into the postinst?
 
 
 The System Settings menu item? I guess we should prompt a restart after
 installing unity-control-center as all in-memory apps will try and launch
 gnome-control-center instead of unity-control-center.

Yes, that menu item. For me it didn't do anything after the upgrade,
because that dist-upgrade removed gnome-control-center.

Thanks!

Martin
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Re: gvfs-fuse

[Martin Pitt]

Michael Terry [2013-02-01 17:50 -0500]:
 Is there much reason to install gvfs-fuse by default?

I think it would be fine to not install it by default on the
tablet/ARM images. But I think it's quite important to keep for PC
installs, as otherwise you stop all non-GNOMEish applications from
accessing any remote or virtual (ArchiveMounter, etc.) file system.

 Do we feel like there are many apps likely to do this that don't declare
 a recommends on gvfs-fuse?

This is not really something you can express as a package dependency
IMHO. We wouldn't want to add gvfs-fuse depends to all packages which
are not using GIO

 Are there any apps likely to do that in the default install?
 Firefox, Thunderbird, and LibreOffice all appear to talk native GIO
 these days.

I agree for the default install, but there are still plenty of popular
applications such as Audacity or MythTV which are likely to access
remote shares.

 If we do need it for default apps, I imagine it could be made to launch
 on demand.

That would be cool indeed, something in the spirit of autofs? Can the
kernel watch a directory and trigger something if it's being opened?

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: New Additional Drivers location not discoverable

[Martin Pitt]

J Phani Mahesh [2012-11-21 22:55 +0530]:
 Assuming we decide to do this, what package will (can) carry this patch?

It should be in software-properties, as that carries the
functionality. That's also quite native to Ubuntu.

Martin
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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

[Martin Pitt]

Hello all,

Ted Gould [2012-10-16 15:06 -0500]:
 So then can we really early (right now) rearrange the desktop startup to
 start upstart when then start dbus and gnome-session?  That would give
 us the ability to start migrating jobs over to being upstart user jobs
 over time without having to do all at once (like we have done with SysV
 Init jobs in system startup).

Not wanting to spoil the show, but before we make the desktop startup
dependent on more Ubuntu-only technology: Is that really what we need
here? I don't think the reason why starting Unity and starting the
Dash takes so long is in any way related to startup order or that we
wouldn't have a mechanism of starting things on demand (D-Bus
activation works just fine for the most part).

From what I can see, it's because Unity accepted one Python daemon
after the other, compiz' architecture (fine-grained plugins, lots
of XML parsing, inability to statically link to common plugins, etc)
takes a high toll, and indicators/global menu is very chatty on the
D-Bus (that alone takes ~ 1 second on an Atom CPU when e. g. starting
nautilus!).

I. e. when boot speed and memory consumption are really an issue, I'm
afraid we actually need to reeinginer those things again; Using
upstart won't help there.

One opportunity where having session upstart (or systemd, FWIW) jobs
would be handy is to finally replace update-notifier. It's become a
collection of totally unrelated things (launching update-manager,
launching Apport on crashes, launching Jockey on missing firmware,
etc) just because we always need a session daemon to listen for
events. This could be replaced by individual jobs that are triggered
by uevents and inotify watches. This will help maintainability and
improve memory usage a bit (2.5 MB RSS for upstart vs. 13 MB RSS
update-notifier), and shouldn't noticeably increase CPU overhead.

Do you have other cases in mind which would benefit from this?

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: [Desktop13.04-Topic] GNOME plans review

[Martin Pitt]

Robert Ancell [2012-10-17 10:24 +1300]:
 - It's about standardising the stack from the kernel to the
 applications.

Right, that was mostly what I've heard about the idea as well.

 This is mostly a non-issue for Ubuntu as the stack that is being
 standardised on is pretty much what we have in Ubuntu.

We deviate quite far already, using upstart, ConsoleKit, and upower,
while GNOME moves towards systemd. As you said, none of this is
insurmountable (it just comes with an ever-increasing maintenance
cost), but it certainly invalidates the upstream testing that this
would bring up to some degree, especially in areas like
settings-daemon and control-center. But we can solve that by running
all of upstream's tests (both automatic and manual) on our own again.

 - There's a logical conclusion that once you have Testable complete then
 that is a distribution. I get the impression that this is what some
 people want to go to but I've heard no actual strategy on how this will
 be a success for GNOME.

I don't think this will happen anytime soon. Anyone who says that
seriously underestimates what a distribution does and entails (stuff
that other people do is always easy). I don't have the impression
that most GNOME upstream devs want to carry the burden of supporting
several releases over years, providing security fixes, maintaining and
installer, preparing and testing images, doing user support, and all
that (that doesn't even begin to scratch the areas that Canonical does
very well, such as custom engineering or building relationships with
driver vendors). The pragmatic solution will probably be to declare
Fedora as the GNOME reference platform, which in a way it already is
anyway.

 In conclusion I don't think we have anything to be worried about with
 GNOME OS at this point and by the time it did matter we may be
 sufficiently different anyway that it doesn't matter.

I agree. I for one appreciate the practical efforts that have been
made in this area, such as OSTree. It's a very nice basis for doing
continuous integration testing on a standardized, and hot off
plumbing git master of current git master GNOME, and will hopefully
lead to a lot more robust upstream development process, as well as
allowing developers to easily reproduce bugs on the standard stack
locally.

Martin

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Collaboration with Debian [was: Re: [Desktop13.04-Topic] GNOME plans review]

[Martin Pitt]

Robert Ancell [2012-10-17 10:48 +1300]:
 - By updating packages in Debian and waiting for them to flow down to
 Ubuntu kills our velocity. It can change the time from upstream release
 to being in Ubuntu from hours (which is too long in my opinion) to days.

Yes, I agree that this is an issue at times. It usually works
reasonably well for me to upload a new version to Debian and fakesync
it into Ubuntu at the same time, but I have (1) DD upload powers and
(2) everything set up to build packages for Debian, which is not true
for the majority of Ubuntu Desktop developers.

However, at the same time I strongly believe that directly working
on Debian's packaging VCSes has some major benefits: Technically we
avoid duplicate work and potential conflicts (such as naming new
packages slightly differently, or a bug fix independently done on both
sides works in a different way/with different API), and socially it's
a great way of giving something back to Debian in return for having
Debian do the vast majority of work of building Ubuntu. It also avoids
the need of having to wade through large and mostly pointless merge
deltas every so often, a work that nobody is really very fond of.

Would an acceptable compromise be to commit fixes and new releases to
Debian's GNOME svn, but then just do  a -Nubuntu1 upload from those,
at least for the packages which we want to keep in sync by and large?

Martin

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Re: Unity Going Forward

[Martin Pitt]

Colin Watson [2012-08-23 13:12 +0100]:
 On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:21:18AM +0930, Jason Warner wrote:
  [2] - We know Unity is showing some graphical corruption inside a VM. Work
  to correct this has been done but not landed yet.
 
 Do you have a bug reference for this?  I'm unable to work on ubiquity in
 KVM right now, which is my normal working environment for installer
 development, and I'd like to know what bug report I should keep an eye
 on.

I think that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1021104

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Re: Enabling Connectivity Checking in NetworkManager

[Martin Pitt]

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre [2012-07-10 14:41 -0400]:
 I'd like to enable connectivity checking in NetworkManager. We'd use
 http://start.ubuntu.com/connectivity-check.html, running the check
 every 5 minutes starting from the connection being established.
 start.ubuntu.com has already been in use for a while to verify
 connectivity from the installer, IIRC.

That seems rather overzealous to me. Why does it need to re-check so
often, even after it knows that it is connected to the real world
out there? It could stop polling until the connection state changes
then. Several million users pinging the same site every 5 minutes has
both privacy issues as well as significantly increasing the traffic to
start.u.c. as well.

At the same time, 5 minutes is much too long when you use it for some
desktop application. After registering in the portal etc. you do not
want to twiddle your thumbs for 5 minutes until your application is
finally convinced that it can go on using the interweb now.

It seems to me that this check would be more appropriate as a D-BUS
method. It sure needs to be handled async by the application and can
take a few seconds, but it avoids the 5 minute delay, the constant
hammering as well as the user count issues?

Thanks,

Martin
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Fwd: New launchpad view available: Work Items and Bugs to do for each milestone.

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Desktoppers,

this might be interesting for you as well.

Martin

 Original Message 
Subject: New launchpad view available:  Work Items and Bugs to do for
each milestone.
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:00:45 -0500
From: Kate Stewart kate.stew...@canonical.com
Reply-To: kate.stew...@canonical.com
Organization: Canonical
To: ue-le...@lists.canonical.com

Now that we have our work items in a separate section in launchpad,
there's a new report we can access to track each team's status.
It is dependent on the blueprints and bugs being associated
with team or person on the team, and a milestone as well as a series
being set though.

Server team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-server/+upcomingwork

Desktop team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-desktop-team/+upcomingwork

Kernel team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork

Foundations team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-foundations/+upcomingwork

Security team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-security/+upcomingwork

QA team:
https://launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/+upcomingwork


If you are not seeing all the blueprints you expect on your team's page,
please check that the Milestone target: on the blueprint is filled.
Those approved blueprints that can be delivered anytime during quantal
should be set to 12.10, otherwise please choose the milestone that
best fits for those that need to land by feature freeze,  use
12.10-beta-1.

Using the new bug workflow we've been discussing the milestoned and
series targetted bugs that teams are commmitting to fix,  the committed
bugs will be showing up on these pages as well, and fitting into this
flow as well if they are assigned to a member, or the team.   This
should give each team a single page to see all the workitems and bugs
that still need to be worked on for each upcoming milestone.

This is still evolving and based off of the work the Linaro team has
contributed to launchpad.  If any team has a member with some launchpad
skills, with a few spare development cycles to work on tools, we can
look at getting these views working for topics-s. Right now the reports
are driven by members in specific teams, so the above links are probably
the most effective views.

Hope you find it useful.

Kate

P.S. - if you want to see your personal TODO page of workitems  bugs,
there is also the view:
https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+upcomingwork  :)

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Re: Ubuntu-x mini-meeting minutes

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Bryce,

Bryce Harrington [2012-06-06 17:32 -0700]:
 The one concern is if dropping swx11 would make the LTS backport more
 challenging.  However, this will become obvious enough once we've made
 the change.  If it does and there's no way around it, we will re-enable
 it at that point.

In case you don't know, you can call lsb_release in debian/rules (add
a b-dep on lsb-release), and based on the outcome call 
dh_builddeb -Nlibgl1-mesa-swx11 to not build it in quantal.

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Re: [Desktop 12.10 Topic] The future of third-party driver installation

[Martin Pitt]

Jo-Erlend Schinstad [2012-04-20  4:01 +0200]:
 Exactly. So why does the driver application currently not show any
 open drivers?

The only case when it does that right now is when there are open
source printer drivers available on openprinting.org for a printer you
are about to set up.

But the general answer to your question is because there is no need
to. We already ship pretty much all free drivers that are available,
and Linux uses them automatically.

Martin

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Re: [Desktop 12.10 Topic] The future of third-party driver installation

[Martin Pitt]

Jo-Erlend Schinstad [2012-04-20  1:56 +0200]:
 If this was going to be redesigned, I would rather see it as a Hardware
 manager.

That's exactly what I want to avoid. If anything, the UI should become
easier, not more complex. Large trees with lots of technobabble and
incomprehensible hardware parts names, properties, and drivers is
just about the last thing we need to improve usability IMHO. :-)

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[Desktop 12.10 Topic] The future of third-party driver installation

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Desktop fans,

We have had Jockey for quite a while now to perform the installation
of proprietary (e. g. NVidia), alternative (e. g. fglrx vs.
fglrx-updates), third-party (e. g. from openprinting.org) drivers.

However, I feel that this needs some refreshing:

 * The code base of Jockey is quite complex, it was meant for a lot
   more stuff than we are actually using it for. We also came up with
   simpler ways of mapping hardware to packages, mostly with
   additional tags in the apt package lists. We also have a more
   upstream friendly API in PackageKit/aptdaemon now to do this kind
   of thing.

   We can simplify the jockey code base and backend logic a lot (up
   to the extend of completely dropping it) by making full use of
   above new technologies and dropping the extra features we don't
   use. The exception is the openprinting.org detection, but that
   could go into system-config-printer or python-cups directly.

 * We install some drivers (like Broadcom wifi) straight from Ubiquity
   now, which certainly makes sense for devices where there is no free
   alternative. For the others (e. g. NVidia) we pop up a notification
   and offer to install them. I'd like to walk through the current UI
   and discuss how this could be made more steamlined and less
   confusing (e. g. for NVidia it can potentially offer 6 different
   drivers for you!)

 * We might consider merging the jockey UI functionality, which is
   mostly a shallow GUI around install that package now) into
   software-center, control-center, or something similar to the codec
   installer. I'd again appreciate if someone from the design team
   could participate in that (hello Matthew!).

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: Upload rights for desktop-extra-set

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Rico,

Rico Tzschichholz [2012-03-30  9:29 +0200]:
 I am Rico Tzschichholz and have done some work regarding the GNOME3
 packaging. I am working on publishing a gnome-shell package-set since
 its early states in my Testing PPA and since Natty in the Gnome3-Team
 PPA and Debian.
 
 It would be great to have upload rights for desktop-extra-set which will
 give me the opportunity to update and fix things directly in Ubuntu.

+1 from me. Thank you for all your work!

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Re: [ubuntu/precise] totem 3.3.4-0ubuntu1~precise1 (Accepted)

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Jeremy,

Jeremy Bicha [2012-01-09 21:25 -]:
 totem (3.3.4-0ubuntu1~precise1) precise; urgency=low
 
   [ Rico Tzschichholz ]
   * New upstream release
 
   [ Jeremy Bicha]
   * debian/watch: Watch for .xz tarballs

Was this meant to go into the PPA instead? For Ubuntu we decided to
stay at 3.0, as anything newer pulls in clutter, which we want to keep
out of a default install for the LTS.

Martin

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Re: [ubuntu/precise] totem 3.3.4-0ubuntu1~precise1 (Accepted)

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Jeremy,

Jeremy Bicha [2012-01-09 17:05 -0500]:
 Sometimes the order on commands doesn't matter but this time it
 definitely does. I have now changed my /etc/dput.cf
 default_host_main to a non-existent location to prevent this mistake
 from happening again this easily. Should that be the default?

Some people use a dput wrapper which automatically selects a PPA when the
version number contains a ~ or ppa. :)

 Since the new totem hit depwait, is it possible to remove/overwrite
 without needing to use a 3.3.4+really3.0.1 upload?

There might be a really hackish way that involves Launchpad admin DB
access, but once the source is accepted, you generally can't go back.

If you are still online in about 1.5 hours, I'll be on IRC and we can
try something, but I guess we do noeed a +really upload.

Martin

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Re: [ubuntu/precise] totem 3.3.4-0ubuntu1~precise1 (Accepted)

[Martin Pitt]

Hello again,

Martin Pitt [2012-01-10  7:46 +0100]:
 If you are still online in about 1.5 hours, I'll be on IRC and we can
 try something, but I guess we do noeed a +really upload.

Ah, seems it was already sorted out. So apparently removing the source
and re-uploading does work, nice!

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Re: Providing a less dramatic upgrade for LTS-users.

[Martin Pitt]

Jo-Erlend Schinstad [2011-12-15 12:20 +0100]:
 Many of these users will be presented with a New distribution
 available upgrade for the very first time. It is likely that many
 will just go right ahead and install the upgrade. When they reboot,
 they will log into a completely new environment. As we've seen, this
 can upset people when they don't expect the change.

This sounds like we should perhaps address this in update-manager? It
could show a slideshow similar to the one in Ubiquity, and/or also
point out that the default desktop changes?

 My proposal is that users who _upgrade_ from 10.04 should be
 presented with a Gnome Panel desktop, kept as close to the setup in
 10.04 as possible.

At some point we need to switch those users to the current stuff
anyway, we can't keep the old panel stuff forever. Even today, only
few people are still working on it. Also, if you upgrade to a totally
new OS version, it is really not realistic to not expect any change.

I do agree that the change is indeed quite big, and I've heard a few
complaints and how do I do X now? questions myself, but if Unity has
some discoverability/usability issues (and it does), we need to
address those for all people, not just for LTS upgraders.

Also, from a purely technical perspective, changing the configuration
for all existing users by packages or even update-manager is a no-go
area. u-m could switch the default session at the system level, but
then new users/guest session would also use the old one, and you would
never see the desktop which we actually support anywhere.

If users see the GNOME-3 variant of GNOME panel, they will rightfully
have the impression that there's nothign really new, just a lot of
stuff has stopped working. Is that really the experience we want to
convey? I think not.

 This should be very easy since most of the stuff on the panel has
 been converted to indicators in any case, and the indicator applet
 has been upgraded to Gnome Panel 3, along with the default applets.
 At the first login after the upgrade, the user should be presented
 with a dialog that tells the user about the new desktop and that you
 can open a guest session to try it without any consequences.

That sounds more feasible -- you could show a screenshot/dialog how to
switch back to the old environment.

One thing that we should do is to make sure that LTS-LTS upgrades
will keep gnome-panel installed, to already have the session available
in lightdm (for fresh installs you need to explicitly install that
package).

 The only issue I can think of that might require a little work, is
 panel applets compatibility. Some will not have been upgraded and
 therefore not available.

In fact, the vast majority of panel applets are gone now, so there's
nothing to upgrade. Cf. my statement above about nobody really working
on the old panel stuff any more.

 It would be nice to have something similar to what Firefox has for
 its extensions.

The upgrade mechanism isn't the problem here -- if a panel applet
package is available for GNOME 3, it'll be upgraded automatically. The
problem is that nobody has ported all the old panels in the first
place.

Thanks!

Martin
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Re: Default music player

[Martin Pitt]

Chris Wilson [2011-12-14 13:13 +]:
 Has a decision been reached yet on what app will be the default music
 player in 12.04?

That's https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-default-apps

In short, we currently default to Rhythmbox, but have a work item

  Review status of Banshee GTK 3 port and stability on ARM, and
  discuss whether to keep RB or switch back to Banshee: BLOCKED

for right before beta-1. I. e. if we have a working GTK 3 banshee at
that time, we'll raise that discussion again.

Thanks,

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Re: Software Centre not starting in 12.04 Alpha 1

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Chris,

Chris Wilson [2011-12-12 13:08 +]:
 I was just wondering if the Software Centre is supposed to not be
 starting in 12.04 Alpha 1, or if there's something wrong with my
 system.

It's not known, or even meant to be broken. Do you get an apport crash
report for it? If so, can you please file it?

If not, what is the output if you start software-center in a
terminal?

Thanks,

Martin
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Re: Desktop Meeting Format Change

[Martin Pitt]

Bryce Harrington [2011-12-05 16:16 -0800]:
 Given this increased importance of the wiki status page, could it be
 made policy to set up the following week's meeting page at the
 conclusion of the current week's meeting?

We can. However, this doesn't need to stop you -- all I do is to
create a new page based on DesktopTeam/NewMeetingTemplate, anyone can
do this :)

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Re: Thanks desktop team

[Martin Pitt]

Hey Iain,

Iain Lane [2011-11-21 10:55 +]:
 In the spirit of the appreciation day, I want to thank you guys for all
 of the work you do getting each release out.  I may seem to be being a
 bit (ahem) annoying at times, but it's only out of love. :-)

Thanks for these kind words! Likewise, thanks so much for all your
work in the C#/Banshee/etc. area. This has been a community project
all along, and it's been an excellent example how well this works.

I wouldn't have called it annoying at all. I'm really grateful that
we have some people in our community with a strong sense of keeping
ourselves and our communication and decision making process within
Ubuntu honest and clear.

,-O
O  )
`-O

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[Blueprint desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed] Desktop boot speed

[Martin Pitt]

Blueprint changed by Martin Pitt:

Assignee: (none) = Ubuntu Desktop

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Re: Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04

[Martin Pitt]

Sebastien Bacher [2011-11-08 11:54 +0100]:
 Not sure how active is the mono desktop side, there are not lot of
 softwares being written using this stack nowadays around GNOME for
 sure, the LTS getting support for 5 years it seems like we would be
 better off not supporting mono for that time...

I don't think we can/should push it that far, though. Mono will still
be in main for precise and onward, and Banshee should probably stay in
main, too (if we switch, that is).

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Re: Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04

[Martin Pitt]

Jason Warner [2011-11-08  9:17 +1030]:
 Areas of concern in Banshee were stability, start-up time, the overall
 resource intensive nature of the application and how responsive an
 upstream they were to Ubuntu specific needs.

That's actually not true -- we sent patches, and they were discussed
and accepted. Certainly not within a day, but that's fairly normal in
the OSS world, and RB (or GNOME) patches often take very long to
review as well.

The problem that was raised is that the package doesn't get well
maintained in Ubuntu (but is maintained well upstream). It did get
quite a lot of uploads in oneiric, though.

I tried banshee when we introduced it and during oneiric again, and
both times it was very unstable and rather slow, and did not get my
collection imported without crashing. Henceforth I noticed that wiping
my configuration improved the stability quite a bit, that might
explain why it's working better for others.

My main reasons why I like to switch back to TB are:

 * Spending ~ 30 MB of CD space for a music player seems rather
   excessive (if you count in the Mono stack)

 * There is no sign of GTK3 support yet, which keeps the old GTK2 and
   much more importantly webkit-gtk2 on the CD (which alone is 8 MB).

 * Our ARM team says that the current versions still work rather
   poorly on ARM.

 * We have shipped Rhythmbox in many previous releases, so while
   constantly switching back and forth is certainly bad, LTS-LTS
   upgraders will at least have consistency, and other upgraders won't
   lose Banshee either.

 * With the recent layoffs, Mono's future remains a bit fuzzy. I heard
   the developers founded a new company, so it's certainly not going
   away soon.

I also personally prefer RB's UI, but I hardly have a technical
argument for it.

Martin

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Re: Default Music Player in Ubuntu 12.04

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Chow,

Chow Loong Jin [2011-11-08 15:15 +0800]:
 I'd like to hear more about this, actually.

Me too.

 It would be nice if you backed up your configuration before wiping it

I should have, sorry for this.

 You might like to see
 http://git.gnome.org/browse/banshee/log/?h=gtk3. With only one
 remaining outstanding bug in Gtk# standing in the way of that branch
 being merged into master, I don't see precise not having Banshee
 with full Gtk3 support.

Nice to hear that! I was talking with one of the upstreams a couple of
months ago, and back then there were still quite a lot of problems.

   * Our ARM team says that the current versions still work rather
 poorly on ARM.
 
 I saw one bug about that, also mentioned in my previous post, which
 is being worked on, but that's about it. What other issues are there?

This needs input from the ARM team, I CC'ed some of them.

 Does Rhythmbox have a migration path back from Banshee, though?

No, it doesn't, you'd need to reimport your library if you want to
switch (you aren't forced to, as the upgrade wouldn't remove Banshee).

Thanks for the heads-up, it's great to see that many of these concerns
are being addressed already.

Martin

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Re: Proposed desktop-extra set

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Jeremy, DMB,

Jeremy Bicha [2011-09-23 11:19 -0400]:
 There's been some discussion about making a new desktop seed for
 Universe packages. I believe a main driver is to allow those of us
 who've been working on gnome-shell but aren't Core or MOTU yet to
 avoid having to get everything sponsored. Also, since ~ubuntu-desktop
 already has commit rights to the GNOME stuff in main, it makes sense
 that they have the rights to the GNOME part of universe too. Here's a
 proposed starter list from ricotz and me:
 
 alacarte
 anjuta
 anjuta-extras
 caribou
 cheese
 clutter-gst
 ekiga
 eog-plugins
 epiphany-browser
 epiphany-extensions
 evolution-mapi
 gedit-plugins
 gjs
 gnome-applets
 gnome-backgrounds
 gnome-contacts
 gnome-games-extra-data
 gnome-panel
 gnome-shell
 gnome-system-tools
 gnome-tweak-tool
 gthumb
 mx
 mutter
 seed
 sound-juicer
 tracker

This looks very appropriate to me. Sending to DMB for official
confirmation, if that is acked, I can create a new desktop-extra
package set and put ~ubuntu-desktop into it. I believe we can't put
them into ~ubuntu-desktop directly, as this is autogenerated from
seeds.

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: [Desktop12.04-Topic] GNOME Version for the LTS

[Martin Pitt]

Sebastien Bacher [2011-10-13 15:45 +0200]:
 That would put us in a position where we can upload at least glib and
 gtk, then we need to figure what we do with GNOME 3.2 against 3.4. If we
 have an updated stack I would lean toward stay on 3.2 by default, then
 we can maybe update selected components and use the ppa for other things

Sounds great to me. It served us rather well in natty, and we can
certainly use the extra time for stabilization. I'd like to update the
core libraries, though.

By UDS I'll familiarize myself with udisks2/new gdu, and come with
some risk/benefit assessment.

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Re: [Desktop12.04-Topic] Video playback?

[Martin Pitt]

Sebastien Bacher [2011-10-04 20:49 +0200]:
 Should we go for the new version and deal with issues or stay safe with
 the old version using xv, or look for a different video player to use?

My gut feeling is that introducing clutter into main, and dealing with
all the fallout is not a good idea for LTS. If clutter is the future,
then 12.10 is a good cycle to give it some testing.

What we should do, though, is to update totem in the ubuntu-desktop
PPA, so that interested people can try it out on various hardware?
That doesn't help us with armel packages, but at least the ARM devs
can easily grab the source package and build it.

Martin
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[Bug 610600] Re: Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1-2.30.1)

[Martin Pitt]

OK, reopening.

** Changed in: gstreamer0.10 (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Released = Confirmed

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[Bug 550847] Re: Impossible to answer kernel error questions

[Martin Pitt]

** Project changed: apport = apport (Ubuntu)

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  Impossible to answer kernel error questions

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[Bug 856669] Re: pygobject 3.0.0-0svn1 does not work with custom python GTK widgets

[Martin Pitt]

** Changed in: pygobject (Ubuntu Oneiric)
 Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) = Martin Pitt (pitti)

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Title:
  pygobject 3.0.0-0svn1 does not work with custom python GTK widgets

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Proposing Jeremy Bicha for ~ubuntu-desktop

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Desktoppers,

as quickly mentioned yesterday on IRC, I propose Jeremy Bicha to join
the ranks of ~ubuntu-desktop, so that he can commit to our branches
and upload desktop-ish packages.

Jeremy has done great work on the gnome-3 PPA during Natty and now
with GNOME package updates in oneiric. I have sponsored a lot of his
packages, and am now convinced that he has sufficient packaging skills
to do the regular updates by himself.

Please see his wiki page for some details:

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha/DesktopDeveloperApplication

He has my +1. Two more to go, as per our membership policy [1].

Thanks Jeremy for your great work!

Martin

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
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[Bug 789333] Re: users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols

[Martin Pitt]

OK, fair enough. This got assigned to the desktop team, but please
anyone feel free to grab this bug.

** Changed in: gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu Oneiric)
   Importance: Medium = High

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Re: New indicator-power

[Martin Pitt]

Ted Gould [2011-07-14 14:22 -0500]:
 Is there an easy way to determine if a device is exporting power
 information to upower?  Perhaps we need a way to answer that question so
 we don't get a bunch of bugs that aren't really our fault :-)

The upower --dump output is certainly handy to have in bug reports.

Martin
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Re: Dropping tomboy from the CD at least for part of the oneiric cycle

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Iain,

Iain Lane [2011-07-06 16:27 +0100]:
 This was fixed in 1.7.1-1ubuntu1, thanks to Sandy Armstrong. No more libgnome
 dependency. I look forward to seeing Tomboy back on the CD very soon. :-)

Thanks! Seeded back:

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.oneiric/revision/1873

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Re: Language chooser at login

[Martin Pitt]

Marc Deslauriers [2011-07-04 23:29 -0400]:
 If the administrator can set the default language when creating a new
 user, it should be fine.

I agree. With that, and the fact that the majority of use cases are
already covered by the system wide default locale/language, I see
little reason for putting back the huge complexity of a language
selector in the login manager again. It took two releases, Perl
scripts, a lot of shell code in XSession, and many bug fixes to get it
working in a reasonable manner, and it is still prone to fail.

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: Developer Application: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Mathieu,

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre [2011-05-11  9:31 +0200]:
 I'd like to apply to join the desktop team.

As we now have three +1 (from Didier, Ken, and me) [1], I added you to
~ubuntu-desktop. Welcome, and thanks for your work!

Martin

[1] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-May/003039.html
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Re: Dropping tomboy from the CD at least for part of the oneiric cycle

[Martin Pitt]

Chris Wilson [2011-06-14 21:08 +0100]:
 What are the chances that the mono bindings won't be ready by October,

I don't know

 and if that's the case, what happens to Tomboy?

It does work with GTK 2 and the old GNOME 2 libraries. So you can
install and use it as usual, so nothing bad will happen to it. It
just pulls in a lot of obsolete libraries and doesn't use the current
configuration system (gsettings), etc.

We will have a theme adapter that will provide (mostly?) the same look
 feel to GTK 2 apps that we have for GTK 3 applications.

Martin

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Re: Developer Application: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Mathieu,

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre [2011-05-11  9:31 +0200]:
 I'd like to apply to join the desktop team.

+1 from me. You have done great work on Network Manager and related
packages, and also have helped out with general desktop maintenance.

Thanks!

Martin
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[Blueprint desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3] GTK 3/GNOME 3

[Martin Pitt]

Blueprint changed by Martin Pitt:

Assignee: (none) = Ubuntu Desktop

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[Blueprint desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3] GTK 3/GNOME 3

[Martin Pitt]

Blueprint changed by Martin Pitt:

Whiteboard changed:
  Work items (oneiric-alpha-1):
  [seb128] review the deprecated libraries rdepends by alpha1:
  Write a mir for accountsservice:
  [themuso] Write MIRs for the at-spi2 stack: TODO
  [ken-vandine] get libindicate-gtk ported to GTK3:
  [ken-vandine] port ido to GTK3:
  [jbicha] Write a mir for libpeas (blocking gedit, eog3 and totem) (bug  
782958): DONE
  [jbicha] Write a mir for seed (required by libpeas  epiphany-browser) (bug 
782972): DONE
  Review cups-pk-helper and file a mir if needed (for the new 
gnome-control-center):
+ Decide on whether nautilus should still draw desktop icons or not in Ubuntu:
  
  Work items (oneiric-beta-1):
  [pitti] port usb-creator to pygi: INPROGRESS
  clean libglade out of the CD:
  clean libgnomeui out of the CD:
  clean libbonoboui out of the CD:
  clean libgnomevfs out of the CD:
  [ev] port ubiquity to pygi:
  (maybe) port software-center to pygi:
  [pitti] port ubuntuone-music-store plugins to pygi (blocked on porting 
rhythmbox, there's an upstream branch, but only for gnome 3):
  [ken-vandine] port gwibber to gtk3:
  [bilalakhtar] port checkbox to pygi: DONE
  [pitti] port system-config-printer to pygi (started, in upstream branch now):
  provide GTK3 variant of appmenu-gtk ( 
https://code.launchpad.net/~hasselmm/appmenu-gtk/gtk3/+merge/60326): INPROGRESS
  Remove gnome-system-tools from seeds, replace with user admin tool from GNOME 
3:
  Check NTP configuration works ok with upstream code in gnome-settings-daemon:
  Drop gnome-themes-ubuntu package (old gtk2 themes from community) or update 
them with new themes.
  [robert-ancell] replace tsclient with remmina in the seed (tsclient removed 
from sid/oneiric):
  Port gnome-settings-daemon.gconf-defaults to use GSettings 
(dh_installgsettings):
- Port gnome-power-manager.gconf-defaults to use GSettings:
- Port energy star compliant patch in gnome-power-manager to GSettings:
+ [pitti] Port gnome-power-manager.gconf-defaults to use GSettings:
+ [pitti] Port energy star compliant patch in gnome-power-manager to GSettings:
  [robert-ancell] port simple-scan to GTK3:
  Update or drop nautilus indicator-application patch:
  Update nautilus indicator-appmenu patch:
- Decide on whether nautilus should still draw desktop icons or not in Ubuntu:
  Trigger the gconf to gsettings migration for users upgrading from natty even 
if they did it before:
- Check if the new glade works for gtk2 and add back a glade-gtk2 if it doesn't:
- Rebase system-wide config patches in gnome-control-center:
+ Check if the new glade works for gtk2 and add back a glade-gtk2 if it doesn't 
- has compat modes for 2.2{0,2,4} and 3.0: DONE
+ [rodrigo] Rebase system-wide config patches in gnome-control-center:
  
  Work items:
  Check that accountsservice works fine on Ubuntu:
  Demote cheese or write a mir for gnome-video-effects:
  
  Comments:
  
  pitti, 2011-04-27: add postponed work items from 
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3
  Questions:
  
  [jbicha] Nautilus 3 uses Ctrl+Del instead of Del to delete files, are we ok 
with this or should we patch it?
  
http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=cce40272e35b20b4aaf5f93109a05b7bb89704d5
  
  Nautilus 3 by default does not display desktop icons (so right-click to
  Change Background doesn't work either). Also, Nautilus isn't started by
  default on login as it doesn't draw the desktop. We're going to keep the
  previous behavior, right?
  
  Session notes:
  
  Let us make GNOME3 rock on Ubuntu 11.10!
  
  Glib, GTK:
  * We will track the unstable glib and gtk version during the oneiric cycle, 
new gtk will be api,abi stable and should not be an issue
  
  Updates and ppa usage:
  * The GNOME3 ppa worked fine this cycle, it made easier for contributors to 
participate
  What about testing? It would get less testing in the ppa
  Natty Gnome 3 PPA
  * Keep it at 3.0.*
  * Don't include gnome-panel 3 as it breaks Ubuntu Classic by not supporting 
indicators
  Gnome 3.1 PPA
  * Both Natty  Oneiric?
  
  Plan of action:
  *  Start with merges from Debian and 3.0 landing
  * Then start landing 3.1 directly to Oneiric
  * Keep the GNOME 3.0 ppa running for natty
  * See if the ppa contributors are wanting to work on a 3.1 ppa for natty
  
  Goals:
  - clean libgnome, libgnomeui, libbonobo, libbonoboui, libglade, gconf, 
gnome-vfs, libgnomecanvas
    - Needed to switch to the new a11y to get rid of bonobo - we will do 
it, a11y said the new version is ready
  - gtk2 to gtk3: firefox is not likely going to be ported
  - get a gtk3 theme
    - 
https://bugzilla.mozillaMuonSoftwaremeeting/desktop-o-wayland/Center.o.org/show_bugrg/show_bug.
  Comunity themes will be changed to adapt to gtk3 (my proposal is to
  cgi?id=627699 (port gtk2 to gtk3)
    - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611953 (gnome 3.0 readiness)
  Gconf: the helper migrating the gconf values to gsettings will be rewritten 
to read

[Blueprint desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3] GTK 3/GNOME 3

[Martin Pitt]

Blueprint changed by Martin Pitt:

Definition Status: Review = Approved

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[Blueprint desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3] GTK 3/GNOME 3

[Martin Pitt]

Blueprint changed by Martin Pitt:

Whiteboard changed:
  Work items (oneiric-alpha-1):
  [seb128] review the deprecated libraries rdepends by alpha1:
  Write a mir for accountsservice:
  [themuso] Write MIRs for the at-spi2 stack: TODO
  [ken-vandine] get libindicate-gtk ported to GTK3:
  [ken-vandine] port ido to GTK3:
  [jbicha] Write a mir for libpeas (blocking gedit, eog3 and totem) (bug  
782958): DONE
  [jbicha] Write a mir for seed (required by libpeas  epiphany-browser) (bug 
782972): DONE
  Review cups-pk-helper and file a mir if needed (for the new 
gnome-control-center):
  Decide on whether nautilus should still draw desktop icons or not in Ubuntu:
  
  Work items (oneiric-beta-1):
  [pitti] port usb-creator to pygi: INPROGRESS
  clean libglade out of the CD:
  clean libgnomeui out of the CD:
  clean libbonoboui out of the CD:
  clean libgnomevfs out of the CD:
  [ev] port ubiquity to pygi:
  (maybe) port software-center to pygi:
  [pitti] port ubuntuone-music-store plugins to pygi (blocked on porting 
rhythmbox, there's an upstream branch, but only for gnome 3):
  [ken-vandine] port gwibber to gtk3:
  [bilalakhtar] port checkbox to pygi: DONE
  [pitti] port system-config-printer to pygi (started, in upstream branch now):
  provide GTK3 variant of appmenu-gtk ( 
https://code.launchpad.net/~hasselmm/appmenu-gtk/gtk3/+merge/60326): INPROGRESS
  Remove gnome-system-tools from seeds, replace with user admin tool from GNOME 
3:
  Check NTP configuration works ok with upstream code in gnome-settings-daemon:
  Drop gnome-themes-ubuntu package (old gtk2 themes from community) or update 
them with new themes.
  [robert-ancell] replace tsclient with remmina in the seed (tsclient removed 
from sid/oneiric):
  Port gnome-settings-daemon.gconf-defaults to use GSettings 
(dh_installgsettings):
  [pitti] Port gnome-power-manager.gconf-defaults to use GSettings:
  [pitti] Port energy star compliant patch in gnome-power-manager to GSettings:
  [robert-ancell] port simple-scan to GTK3:
  Update or drop nautilus indicator-application patch:
  Update nautilus indicator-appmenu patch:
  Trigger the gconf to gsettings migration for users upgrading from natty even 
if they did it before:
- Check if the new glade works for gtk2 and add back a glade-gtk2 if it doesn't 
- has compat modes for 2.2{0,2,4} and 3.0: DONE
+ Check if the new glade works for gtk2 custom widgets and add back a 
glade-gtk2 if it doesn't:
  [rodrigo] Rebase system-wide config patches in gnome-control-center:
  
  Work items:
  Check that accountsservice works fine on Ubuntu:
  Demote cheese or write a mir for gnome-video-effects:
  
  Comments:
  
  pitti, 2011-04-27: add postponed work items from 
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3
  Questions:
  
  [jbicha] Nautilus 3 uses Ctrl+Del instead of Del to delete files, are we ok 
with this or should we patch it?
  
http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=cce40272e35b20b4aaf5f93109a05b7bb89704d5
  
  Nautilus 3 by default does not display desktop icons (so right-click to
  Change Background doesn't work either). Also, Nautilus isn't started by
  default on login as it doesn't draw the desktop. We're going to keep the
  previous behavior, right?
  
  Session notes:
  
  Let us make GNOME3 rock on Ubuntu 11.10!
  
  Glib, GTK:
  * We will track the unstable glib and gtk version during the oneiric cycle, 
new gtk will be api,abi stable and should not be an issue
  
  Updates and ppa usage:
  * The GNOME3 ppa worked fine this cycle, it made easier for contributors to 
participate
  What about testing? It would get less testing in the ppa
  Natty Gnome 3 PPA
  * Keep it at 3.0.*
  * Don't include gnome-panel 3 as it breaks Ubuntu Classic by not supporting 
indicators
  Gnome 3.1 PPA
  * Both Natty  Oneiric?
  
  Plan of action:
  *  Start with merges from Debian and 3.0 landing
  * Then start landing 3.1 directly to Oneiric
  * Keep the GNOME 3.0 ppa running for natty
  * See if the ppa contributors are wanting to work on a 3.1 ppa for natty
  
  Goals:
  - clean libgnome, libgnomeui, libbonobo, libbonoboui, libglade, gconf, 
gnome-vfs, libgnomecanvas
    - Needed to switch to the new a11y to get rid of bonobo - we will do 
it, a11y said the new version is ready
  - gtk2 to gtk3: firefox is not likely going to be ported
  - get a gtk3 theme
    - 
https://bugzilla.mozillaMuonSoftwaremeeting/desktop-o-wayland/Center.o.org/show_bugrg/show_bug.
  Comunity themes will be changed to adapt to gtk3 (my proposal is to
  cgi?id=627699 (port gtk2 to gtk3)
    - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611953 (gnome 3.0 readiness)
  Gconf: the helper migrating the gconf values to gsettings will be rewritten 
to read directly the gconf database without depending on gconf to get the keys
  [seb128] review the rdepends by alpha1
  GTK: we need to think how the new GtkApplication menu that gnome-shell will 
use is going to play with indicator-appmenu
  Theming: Dx plans

Welcome to ~ubuntu-desktop, Rodrigo Moya

[Martin Pitt]

Hello all,

Rodrigo has worked in the desktop team for several months now, and
will continue to do so. He has picked up all the necessary packaging
skills, is familiar with our processes, freezes, revision control
handling, and our goals. 

As per the desktop developer policy [1] he got four supporters in the
existing team [2], so I just added him to ~ubuntu-desktop now.

Welcome Rodrigo, and thanks for your great work!

Martin
p.p. Ubuntu Desktop Team

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers 
[2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/003001.html

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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Packaging branches

[Martin Pitt]

Robert Ancell [2011-04-13 10:20 +1000]:
   * They come with quilt patches pre-applied in the source, which is
 not only horribly confusing and error prone, but also breaks
 merge-upstream pretty thoroughly.
 I hadn't noticed that.  The seems like absolutely the wrong behaviour. 
 Can this be fixed?

I'm afraid it's called a feature :/

 Current method (perhaps I'm missing something here):
 1. Checkout bzr branch of debian/ directory

Right, debcheckout -a packagename.

 2. Get tarball of current version (I use apt-get source, though you have
 to be careful that it is the same version)
 3. Get tarball of latest version (I use bzr-buildpackage and then ctrl-C
 once I have the tarball in the build-area/ directory)

Not necessary, bzr bd-do or bzr bd -S do that for you. If the archive
already has it, it gets it from there, otherwise it uses uscan to
download it from upstream.

 4. Unpack tarballs somewhere manually
 5. Copy debian directory

bzr bd-do does that. It puts you into a temporary dir with full source
which you can work in, and if you exit 0, it copies back debian/ so
that you can commit the changes.

 6. Diff two versions for changes (i.e. NEWS and configure.ac) - I use
 meld here

I usually don't need that for NEWS, as you can just grab the part
which applies to the latest release. configure.ac is tricky indeed,
usually I find it easier to get it from an upstream git diff. If
that's impractical, debdiffing the old against the new source works
too, of course.

 7. Update debian/rules debian/control etc
 8. Muck around with quilt/edit-patch to add/update/remove patches

quilt push / edit stuff / quilt update etc. should be done in the bzr
bd-do work tree.

 9. Copy back debian/ directory changes to bzr branch

bzr bd-do does that when exit 0

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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Packaging branches

[Martin Pitt]

Robert Ancell [2011-04-11 10:36 +1000]:
 - People are often ignoring the branches and uploading directly (or
 forgetting do a bzr push) which means changes are sometimes dropped by
 accident
 - People often do merge requests to lp:ubuntu/package_name, even when
 there is a packaging branch

I agree that these are annoying indeed.

However, after having worked with the normal mode branches for a
while, I still don't like them better:

 * They come with quilt patches pre-applied in the source, which is
   not only horribly confusing and error prone, but also breaks
   merge-upstream pretty thoroughly.

 * They still ignore the actually interesting problem: maintaining
   patches themselves with revision control, with
   looms/threads/pipelines/name du jour. I. e. they throw all this
   bzr overhead on the bits that we don't need in bzr (the upstream
   code), but don't actually help us with patch management.

 * They are incompatible with upstream bzr branches even for those
   projects whose native trunks are in Launchpad and bzr already.

So in summary I must say that the main effect from the full branches
is that people make a lot more errors and everything is slower :-(

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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Packaging branches

[Martin Pitt]

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre [2011-04-12  0:28 -0400]:
 bzr merge-package sounds like one place where using packaging branches
 in merge-mode would break too, no, seeing as the debian packages are
 in normal-mode branches?

Right, this is one use case where the auto-imports work better, as the
Debian imports (if they exist and are current, that is) are in the
same format and are constructed in a way to share history, i. e. are
mergeable.

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Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04

[Martin Pitt]

Rick Spencer [2011-04-07 18:38 -0700]:
 1. There are key feature regressions, for example, there is no systray
 support for many important applications.

For the record, this is currently purely a design decision, not a
technical problem. Unity does have a systray, but most applications
are not allowed to use it. The current exception list is AFAIR Java
applications, Skype, and Mumble.

If this is a major issue, then frankly I'd rather just remove the
whitelist and allow all old-style systray applications than dropping
Unity by default completely.

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Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04

[Martin Pitt]

Neil Jagdish Patel [2011-04-08 11:38 +0100]:
 I'll be looking into this, I believe it's because we needlessly
 initialise the place-daemons during log-in.

Does that include zeitgeist? As a Python program, it has a pretty heavy
impact on the login sequence. In previous releases we tried to keep it
out of the critical path, by delaying sytem-config-printer by 30
seconds (and we didn't have any other Python stuff during boot).

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Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04

[Martin Pitt]

Jorge O. Castro [2011-04-07 22:00 -0400]:
 We've been transitioning since 10.04 now so I don't think this should
 be attributed to Unity entirely, we could have easily run into this by
 not shipping the notification area in classic mode.

Well, we can always break things harder, but IMHO this is a battle
which we aren't going to win until/unless we actually get indicators
landed upstream...

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Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04

[Martin Pitt]

Sebastien Bacher [2011-04-08 19:03 +0200]:
 Who is upstream? 

I mean GNOME here, as most of the patches we carry for appindicator
are against GNOME applications.

But it really applies to all other upstreams, starting from hplip,
mumble, etc.

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[Oneiric-Topic] Integrate unity-2d/Qt / install media space

[Martin Pitt]

Hello all,

I hear that next cycle we will probably be required to ship unity-2d,
and with it Qt.  This means we'll need yet another round of where to
get the space from?.

Next cycle we'll drop Python 2.6, but at the same time add Python 3,
so the python-* library packages won't shrink. In the contrary, we'll
have to ship python3 itself in addition. I don't think we'll manage to
port everything to Python 3 next cycle, so we'll have to keep both.

The only thing I still know of which people won't immediately miss is
Perl, but removing it will mean to remove AppArmor and shiny debconf
dialogs in software-center/synaptics. Aside from that we pretty much
exhausted package content optimization.

In the last years we fell victim to an ever-growing set of language
runtimes and toolkits, but I realize that getting rid of each of them
is hard. So if we want to keep adding new features without removing
others, we might also eventually reconsider moving to 1 GB USB images
and entirely stop shipping CD images (on mirrors/shop/Loco
distribution, etc.) This would be something I would hate to do, but it
seems reality is against our original design goals :-)

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[Oneiric-Topic] Clean up language support

[Martin Pitt]

Priority: low

Rediscuss the structure of language-support-* metapackages vs.
language-selector's dynamic detection of missing packages; right now
this is a wild mix, and I'd like to consistently use language-selector
for everything.

This is only little actual work, but needs a bit of thought first.

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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Firefox translations in Launchpad/Language packs

[Martin Pitt]

Chris Coulson [2011-04-07  9:25 +0100]:
 - Firstly, I think we should kill po2xpi entirely. It's basically
 doing what the Firefox build system is already very good at doing
 (building xpi's from source). We should be using the Firefox build
 system to build the language pack xpi's that we ship. This resolves
 point 2 and 3.

I agree, po2xpi is a pain to maintain, too.

 - This means that Firefox will output xpi's for every language in the
 future (not just for en-US). We either need to package these in to
 dedicated language packs for Firefox (e.g., firefox-locale-foo)

I. e. build separate binaries from the firefox source? This would
certainly work and make the process a lot easier, too. We can then
integrate it into the existing language-selector framework.

 Launchpad will need to import all xpi's and then make them available
 to langpack-o-matic to build the language packs.

We already have a mechanism for that fortunately, we call these
static translation tarballs. It's the same as we currently use for
translated GNOME help. So if want the XPIs in language-pack-* itself,
this would be an efficient way to do this.

 - I would still like to be able to use Launchpad to do Firefox
 translations.

That would be great, but I can't comment on the implementation.

 - Note that searchplugins are shipped independently of the xpi's. If
 we are going to be shipping Firefox translations with our language
 packs (as we do currently), this would mean Launchpad would need a
 mechanism for importing and exporting the searchplugins alongside the
 xpi's too.

As they are so small, wouldn't it be much easier to just ship them all
in the firefox.deb, as they come from upstream anyway?

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Desktop-side networking enhancements

[Martin Pitt]

Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre [2011-04-07  8:42 -0400]:
 - NM integration with proxy configuration

+1 on that (I was actually about to bring that up myself, but you beat
me to it :) ).

GNOME 3 already solves this very nicely.

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[Bug 736236] Re: [MIR] mm-common

[Martin Pitt]

Promoted, as we now have an rdepends (see
https://code.launchpad.net/~gnomemm/glibmm2.4/ubuntu/+merge/54784)

** Changed in: mm-common (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Committed = Fix Released

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[Bug 636693] Re: Premature lock when launching guest session

[Martin Pitt]

For the record, I would also prefer that the indicator not locking the
screen by itself. The documented interface to launching a guest session
including screen locking is to simply call /usr/share/gdm/guest-session
/guest-session-launch.

But oh well, seems we agree to disagree, so the Opinion status seems
appropriate.

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Title:
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[Bug 729283] Re: Merge sane-backends 1.0.22-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)

[Martin Pitt]

** Changed in: sane-backends (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) = Martin Pitt (pitti)

** Changed in: sane-backends (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = In Progress

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Re: Ubuntu-desktop nautilus packaging branch.

[Martin Pitt]

Luke Yelavich [2011-03-04 11:42 +1100]:
 When working on the nautilus package today as a part of patch pilot,
 I tried commiting a release and tagging with the appropriate version
 in debian/changelog, however bzr complained that there was already a
 tag for that release version. I didn't overwrite it in the lp branch
 in the event that there was a reason for this, so the latest
 nautilus package release, so far as the branch goes, is not tagged.

Note that these often come in with merges. Unfortunately contributors
often already do the dch -r/debcommit -r thing (or an equivalent).
When I merge a branch, I usually set the changelog back to UNRELEASED
and do bzr tag --delete version, and then do an explicit dch -rm and
debcommit -r.

Martin

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Re: Byobu no longer installed by default?

[Martin Pitt]

Hey Corey,

Corey Burger [2011-02-15 15:10 -0800]:
 I noticed that Byobu is no longer installed by default. Is this a
 conscious decision and is the size of byobu so big that its space is
 required by something else?

It was a conscious decision (we dropped screen), as screen/byobu
aren't that important to have in the default desktop installation, and
both together save ~ 0.7 MB. It's not a lot, but given our continuous
unfattening quest every bit helps.

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[Bug 702028] Re: Sync clutter-gtk 0.91.4-3 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)

[Martin Pitt]

synced and unblacklisted, removed clutter-gtk-1.0.

** Package changed: ubuntu = clutter-gtk (Ubuntu)

** Changed in: clutter-gtk (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = Fix Released

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Re: software-center and remove vs. purge

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Michael,

thanks for the nice summary!

Michael Vogt [2010-12-07 10:13 +0100]:
 Its difficult to tell programmatically what is going to happen when
 the maintainer script is called with purge as this is a shell
 script. Our tools can estimate what amount of data the configuration
 file was using (and even if the user ever modified it or not) but not
 what additional steps the maintainer script will take

I don't think it's that easy. You can only do that with conffiles, but
not with configuration files, or even data files in /var/lib (think
about PostgreSQL -- purging will take your entire database into the
void).

I don't think this behaviour would be entirely unexpected, though. If
you remove a database, then I don't think it's totally surprising
that this also cleans up your data, but as you say for those 1% it's
better to be safe than sorry.

 That being said I think we should make it easy for the user to access
 the purge functionality both inside software-center and
 computer-janitor.

I like that idea, too.

Thanks,

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Re: Ubuntu Desktop weekly meetings

[Martin Pitt]

Bryce Harrington [2010-11-30 23:23 -0800]:
 Perhaps you could elaborate on your vision for how our audience would
 use this blocker information in the report?

I think the primary audience for this blockers list is primarily our
own team. It would help Jason and me to coordinate work, and might
also be used by other team members to jump in and help out with
resolving them.

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Re: Application for ubuntu-desktop

[Martin Pitt]

Michael Terry [2010-11-23  8:59 -0500]:
 I would like to be considered for membership in the ubuntu-desktop team.

I have followed Michael's work on the Ubuntu desktop, in upstream
patches, and in OEM projects for about half a year now. He has a
thorough understanding how the GNOME desktop works, knows how to
collaborate, and knows his way around packaging, bzr maintenance, etc.

I welcome him to officially join the ubuntu-desktop team.

Thanks, and keep up your great work!

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Re: Remove screen from the Desktop CD?

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Robbie,

cc'ing ubuntu-desktop@ for some wider input.

Robbie Williamson [2010-11-15 22:49 -0600]:
 Can we remove 'screen' from the Desktop CD?  I don't see a reason to
 have it (or byobu, which is a recommends) on the Desktop by
 default...and we save around 680K :).  Thoughts?

byobu is definitively overkill for a desktop installation, indeed.
I love screen on servers as well, it's a must for ssh connections, but
indeed I see little benefit for it on a normal desktop box. And with
command-not-found, it's easy to discover, too.

So from my POV it'd be okay to drop.

Martin

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Re: Remove screen from the Desktop CD?

[Martin Pitt]

Didier Roche [2010-11-16  9:28 +0100]:
 Agreed as well, doesn't make really sense on a desktop install and
 people needing it can get it from a small apt-get install away after
 command-not-found telling it's not installed (yet)…

I removed it from the seeds now. Someone will yell if they will miss
it. :-)

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[Bug 636693] Re: Redundant lock before launching guest session

[Martin Pitt]

I agree, but that's not something we can change in gdm-guest-session,
since at this point it's too late. Closing the guest session task,
keeping the indicator-session task open.

** Changed in: gdm-guest-session (Ubuntu)
   Status: In Progress = Invalid

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Re: Where does the plus sign in file permissions come from?

[Martin Pitt]

Otto Kekäläinen [2010-03-17 22:00 +0200]:
 Mar 17 21:40:42 shuttle console-kit-daemon[874]: WARNING: Could not  
 determine active console
 Mar 17 21:40:42 shuttle console-kit-daemon[874]: WARNING: Error  
 waiting for native console 4 activation: Invalid argument

For the record, this is LP #544139.

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Re: Where does the plus sign in file permissions come from?

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Otto,

Otto Kekäläinen [2010-03-17  9:43 +0200]:
 Ok, thanks. The bug is maybe a regression. Are there any significant
 changes to ACL in Lucid?

Not compared to Karmic, it hardly changed at all.

 The symptom involves that sometimes the ACL is on and sometimes off.
 Is there something else that puts the ACL on/off that the udev init
 script?

No, the udev script should be the only one. The intention is that the
user who has the current foreground console gets those extra ACL
privileges, and other users get them revoked if they loose the
foreground console (i. e. for user switching, etc.). This ensures that
hardware that you plug in gets activated for the current user.

Under which circumstances are they off for you?

Martin

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Re: Review of featured applications

[Martin Pitt]

Sense Hofstede [2010-03-06 18:06 +0100]:
 I think that not including Battle for Wesnoth would be a shame. This
 is a very complete game with a lot of available content and it is
 translated into many languages and you can even download extra
 scenarios! Moreover, Wesnoth starts with a tutorial game that explains
 the basics of the game mechanics in an easily understandable way.

FWIW, a big +1 on wesnoth. It's a prime example of a great game for
Linux, in all of the freedom/graphics/fun dimensions.

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Re: Lucid changes to Firefox default search provider

[Martin Pitt]

Reinhard Tartler [2010-01-27  7:30 +0100]:
 Can this default be configured on a system wide level? I imagine that
 sites with mass deployments of lucid would want to have the option to
 configure this, e.g., via debconf preseeding.

I expect that could just go into /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js ?

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[Bug 491162] Re: gdm does not start X unless remove tty-device-added KERNEL=tty7 from upstart gdm.conf

[Martin Pitt]

Scott kindly agreed to debug this next week, he has some idea what's
actually going wrong here.

** Changed in: gdm (Ubuntu Lucid)
 Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) = Scott James Remnant (scott)

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ubuntu-desktop team members can now upload

[Martin Pitt]

Hello desktoppers,

(CC'ing -devel@ since it applies to ~kubuntu-dev and ~mythbuntu-dev as
well, and is of general interest)

with the ongoing archive restructuring and the TB approval of
delegating upload privileges to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop,
Colin Watson now threw the switch.

That means that everyone in the team can now upload packages which
belong to the desktop package set, i. e. the usual
GTK/GNOME/KDE/i18n bits. 

To get a complete list of packages, or test for a particular package,
grab edit_acl.py from ubuntu-archive-tools [1]:

$ ./edit_acl.py -s gnome-power-manager query
== All uploaders for package 'gnome-power-manager' ==
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in 
karmic
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'unr' in karmic
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in karmic
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'unr' in lucid

- ~ubuntu-desktop can upload

$ ./edit_acl.py -s ubiquity query
== All uploaders for package 'ubiquity' ==
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'core' in karmic
Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'core' in lucid

- ~ubuntu-desktop can't upload

$ ./edit_acl.py -P ubuntu-desktop -S lucid query
== All source packages in package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in 'lucid' ==
abiword
acpica-unix
adns
aiksaurus
alacarte
[...]

- list of packages ~ubuntu-desktop can upload

Martin

[1] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/

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Re: Congrats on karmic, looking forward lucid

[Martin Pitt]

Bryan Quigley [2009-11-05 23:37 +0530]:
 Maybe, I'm just being to optimistic but I plan on starting to roll out
 Karmic to my users later next week.

Conversely, I'm probably too pessimistic here since I have just dealt
with SRUs and bug reports all the week. :-)

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Re: copy of ubuntu

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Joel,

joel demerre [2009-10-15  3:26 -0700]:
I would like to request for a copy of remix CD to be installed in my acer 
 aspire one unit

It's free software, no permission necessary.

  http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu

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Desktop team weekly report -- 2009-09-22

[Martin Pitt]

This is also available on the wiki:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-09-22

Include(DesktopTeam/MenuHeader)

For minutes of previous meetings, please see DesktopTeam/Meeting.

= Meeting Minutes =
== Present ==
=== Main Meeting ===
 * Alexander Sack (asac)
 * Alberto Milone (tseliot)
 * Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)
 * Chris Cheney (calc)
 * Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)
 * Ken VanDine (kenvandine)
 * Martin Pitt (pitti) - chair
 * Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
 * Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)  
 * Tony Espy

=== Eastern Edition ===
 * Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)
 * Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

== Apologies ==
 * Rick Spencer (rickspencer3)
 * Bryce Harrington (bryce)

== Agenda ==
 * Outstanding actions from last meeting
 * Changed bug reporting process
 * Partner Update
 * Kubuntu Update
 * Release Bugs/Release Status
 * Ricks' heartache list
 * Review work items
 * Review activity reports
 * Any other business

== Actions from this meeting ==

 * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage: TheMuso to update the page 
for audio
 * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage: robert_ancell to update the 
page for compiz
 * pitti to talk to bdmurray about +filebug feedback (Done, see bug Bug:432088)
 * Riddell to clean up Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic

== Outstanding actions from last meeting ==

 * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage: TheMuso to update the page 
for audio
  * Not done, pushed to this week
 * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage: robert_ancell to update the 
page for compiz
  * Not done, pushed to this week
 * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage: pitti to update the page for 
storage devices
  * Done

== Changed bug reporting process ==

Feedback about the `+filebug` redirection: 
 * many bugs can legitimately be filed without apport information (such as 
translation bugs), wishlist bugs, or UI problems
 * Devs still want an easily accessible file it anyway link 
 * Proposal from Alex: Firefox protocol handler like apturl 
(`ubuntu-bug:file/firefox-3.5`), but that requires new code and will only work 
with Firefox
 * Ideal solution: `+filebug` page shows wiki page contents and offers a file 
it anyway link at the bottom
 * Compromise: Disable redirection for `~ubuntu-bug-control` members.

''ACTION:'' pitti to talk to bdmurray about +filebug feedback

Done in bug Bug:432088; other developers proposed the same solution.

== Partner Update ==
=== UbuntuOne: ===
 * Online services team is sprinting this week, and I haven't gotten an update 
from them yet
 * couchdb
   * split server from the rest of couch so it doesn't start at boot
 * bindwood
   * we need bug fix release with oauth enabled
 * desktopcouch
   * we need bug fix release with oauth enabled (to allow syncing)
 * ubuntuone-client
   * There will likely be a UI freeze exception requested to deal with the 
preferences dialog usability issue 

Martin pointed out that enabling oauth and peer-to-peer sync is a new feature 
which comes very late.

=== DX: ===

 * [[DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicWeeklyReleases|Weekly releases]]
   * user list in the session applet
   * menu ordering bug 
   * notify-osd crashers
 * New gdm artwork still needs to land

== Kubuntu Update ==

 * DVDs oversized, next Amarok upload may fix that
 * OEM installer broken, but broken in Ubuntu Desktop too
 * Upgrade from Jaunty works but with some config file quirks that I need to 
work around
 * jockey and apport still need investigation

== Rick's list of heartache ==

 Boot 
 * lots of incoming bugs about not being able to boot: 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=ubuntu-boot
  * under active investigation (mostly by Scott)
 * lots of messages and other crufty looking things:
  * many of them were already fixed in latest udev

 Empathy 
 * audio/video is crashy:
  * Ken will spend some time debugging this this week
  * Audio has been relatively stable since recently
  * Video is broken and consistently crashing
  * Ken will talk to cassidy (upstream)
  * New telepathy-farsight was synced yesterday and is supposed to help a lot
 * not interacting well with messaging menu

 X 
 * Is there something keeping compiz from working on intel 945?
  * Race condition on boot, sometimes does not load DRM modules and thus enable 
KMS and acceleration
  * related to bug Bug:392039 and bug 431812, Scott proposed a solution in the 
bug

 Gwibber 
 * Not displaying messages atm
  * Not reproducible; Rick needs to file a bug
 * crashy, including daemon
  * Not reproducible; Rick needs to file a bug
 * not interacting well with messaging
  * fixed yesterday

 Session menu 
 * haven't implemented user list yet (regression)
  * tracked in bug Bug:422052
  * gdm offers the API now
 * status interactions with apps not working well
  * needs to be ported to telepathy-mission-control-5 (right now it uses the 4 
API)
  * scheduled to land on Thursday

 work items 
 * above trend line
 * asac still has

Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Matthew, hello Shaun,

Matthew East [2009-08-27 23:19 +0100]:
 I've had a chat this evening with Shaun Mccance, the Gnome yelp
 maintainer. It seems that yelp gets its paths from rarian, and rarian
 gets its paths from the content of the omf files. So we can patch the
 omf files (seems to me to be a big job), patch rarian, or use the
 symlink idea of Loïc.
 
 I've pasted the conversation here and hope that it helps! I'm afraid I
 was asking rather uninformed questions, as I don't have a good
 understanding either of how yelp works, or of how Ubuntu packaging
 works. But hopefully it takes things forward a little.
 
  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/260590/

Thanks for this conversation! To clarify why we need this dance in the
first place:

mdke_ Martin can't put these files in /usr/share/gnome/help because that will 
break upgrades
shaunm because it seemed straightforward enough to me to just drop the extra 
files in the right place

One assumption from dpkg (and most probably rpm as well) is that a
particular file can only be shipped in one package (at a time). Thus
if you have a file /usr/share/gnome/help/foo/foo.xml, which is
currently shipped by foo, and then you install a language pack which
also ships that file, the package installation will fail. We can
enforce that foo is upgraded before the language pack installation, or
that the langpack will overwrite files from foo, but that would
require said list of 50ish Replaces: declarations.

This isn't just a transitional problem either: people can install
third-party .debs, or locally built packages which include the help
files at the original place, and they would again be uninstallable due
to file conflicts.

Now, patching the omf files isn't much work at all, it can happen
automatically during package build in pkgstriptranslations: while
removing the gnome help files, it could also apply some seddery to the
omf files to change /help/ to /help-langpacks/. However, we'd still
have the same file conflict problem with the omf files themselves.

shaunm now, that won't work for mallard documents
shaunm which basically means empathy

Shaun, what do you mean here? The current empathy in Karmic (2.27.5)
seems to use the standard gnome help/omf system.

So it seems to me that the langpacks should ship the help files in
/usr/share/gnome/help-langpack/ and the omf files in
/usr/share/omf-langpack/, with the paths mangled accordingly 
(*/help/* → */help-langpack/*). Then a two-line rarian patch would fall
back to /usr/share/omf-langpack/ if the requested file does not exist
in /usr/share/omf/. With that order, locally installed files always
get preference, which is what we want.

With that we avoid a symlink tree which would clutter packages and
potentially cause bugs and problems with dangling symlinks, and we
retain the possibility of changing the implementation easily, since we
just have one tiny central patch in rarian.

I have the rarian patch ready now, and first experiments work very
well.

Thanks for all your input!

Martin
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Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks

[Martin Pitt]

Shaun McCance [2009-08-30 10:34 -0500]:
 OK.  I'm not a packaging expert, so I'll just have to trust
 you on this one.  But I don't see how splitting a package
 into subpackages is any different than what gets done now
 with -dev packages.

If a file moves from e. g. libfoo1 to libfoo-dev, then you have the
very same file conflict situation. In that case you have to declare a
Conflicts:/Replaces: field to tell the package manager that libfoo-dev
has a file which was previously shipped in libfoo1.

But using that approach for langpacks would mean that language-pack-*
had to grow a Replaces: field to _all_ packages it has files for, i.
e. to perhaps 50 or 100 GNOME packages. This might have a serious
impact on the package manager.

 So, with your proposed solution, in Yelp 3 you would need
 to patch Yelp to also look for help files there.  If you
 were to use a directory structure like
 
   /usr/share/langpack/gnome/help/empathy/de/
 
 Then you'd just need to ensure that /usr/share/langpack
 is in XDG_DATA_DIRS (or modify Yelp to auto-insert it,
 which would be a much smaller patch).

That sounds great, and indeed much more elegant and robust than the
symlink-mania. Good to know that it will only be an intermediate
crutch.

Thanks,

Martin

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Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks

[Martin Pitt]

Hello all,

one of our long-term goals to reclaim some much needed CD space has
been to move the translated text and images in /usr/share/gnome/help/
and /usr/share/omf/project/*-LANGCODE.omf from the actual GNOME
packages into language-pack-*. (We are currently 10 MB oversized, and
only have three langpacks). 

The prospective savings are tempting, depending on how many langpacks
we actually ship we can get an order of 30 MB back, so I think it's
well worth spending some effort here.

Thanks to the Soyuz team, that goal is actually feasible now. Julian
and I set up everything needed to strip the translations at build
time, store them in the librarian, and I wrote a script to retrieve
them again.

However, yesterday it occurred to me that merely adding them to
langpacks will break upgrades and installation of backported versions
and third-party repos in a lot of cases due to file conflicts.

With normal gettext mo files we solved that problem by storing them in
a separate directory (/usr/share/locale-langpack/), but doing the same
is not that easy for GNOME help; I'm not quite sure whether adding an
alternative search path to yelp and rarian is sufficient, or whether
this would need adaptions to other packages as well. However, I have
seen some hardcoded file references in e. g. the rarian source package:

  
./data/beanstalk.document:DocPath[de]=/usr/share/gnome/help/beanstalk/de/beanstalk.xml

which would definitively break due to that change. (The file isn't
actually shipped, though).

Sebastien, any other GNOME wizard, do you know whether this would be
feasible?

Failing that, an alternative is to add lots of Replaces: to the
langpacks. This would be quite ugly, though, and I'm not sure about
the impact to dpkg's stability and performance if the langpacks would
suddenly grow 50ish new replaces. Can anyone comment on that?

Thanks in advance!

Martin
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Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks

[Martin Pitt]

Loïc Minier [2009-08-27 18:31 +0200]:
  Perhaps instead of stripping the files entirely from regular packages
  you could make them symlink to a langpack specific location?  We'd then
  investigate over time which apps need to patched to work with the
  langpack location directly, or just keep symlinks forever.

That's in fact a brilliant idea, thanks!

Martin
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Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks

[Martin Pitt]

Matthew East [2009-08-27 19:36 +0100]:
 I suspect that it should be possible to add an alternative search path
 to yelp so that it checks in more than one location.

It's not just yelp, though, there are also the omf files which seem to
be handled by rarian?

 Likewise, it seems to me that such hardcoded file references might be
 fixable bugs. For reference beanstalk.xml is an example which some
 of the upstream developers use when planning features in the Gnome
 help (see http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/quack/mallard.xml). I don't
 think it's a real file at all. If that's the only hardcoded path, I
 suspect that it's a red herring.

Ah, I see. I didn't find anything else (I grepped
/usr/share/gnome/help). Thanks for clarifying.

 Incidentally, is the stripping also going to be done for other
 packages using the directory /usr/share/gnome/help (such as
 ubuntu-docs)?

Usually yes. Particular packages can opt out in the usual way by
setting NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 in debian/rules.

 If so, am I right that we can go back to shipping all
 languages in the ubuntu-docs package, rather than only those which are
 70% translated?

That's indeed true, if you would like ubuntu-docs to be
stripped/distributed that way, too.

Thanks,

Martin
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Re: Trimming down gnome-applets (and removing HAL dependency)

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Chris,

Chris Coulson [2009-08-02  0:26 +0100]:
 *** battstatus ***
 
 This currently is able to use either a HAL backend or the
 legacy /proc/acpi interface for obtaining battery information. This has
 previously been (and might still be) a source of bugs when the legacy
 interface presents inconsistent information compared to what
 gnome-power-manager says

I fully agree. In Karmic we only really support devkit-power and
gnome-power-manager, and trying to keep up with hal and even
/proc/acpi does not make much sense.

 *** modemlights ***
 
 This has a dependency on network-admin from gnome-system-tools which we
 don't even install by default anymore, so is crippled on the default
 install anyway. To be functional, users will need to manually download
 gnome-network-admin, so I'm not sure if we'd lose anything by removing
 this applet.

I'm not personally attached to this. To me it sounds that
functionality which people need should rather be added to nm-applet.
Is there a chance to split it out as a separate binary, so that it can
get a dependency to g-network-admin and be dropped from the default
install? If that's too much hassle, I don't mind dropping it. Karmic
changed so much, I guess we need to leave some cruft along the way..

Thanks,

Martin

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Re: Trimming down gnome-applets (and removing HAL dependency)

[Martin Pitt]

Bryan Quigley [2009-08-02 12:18 +0530]:
 Neither for full removal but they just shouldn't be ran per user at startup:
 Jockey - purpose is *notification* of hardware changes.

The tricky thing is that something in the desktop session needs to
call the jockey backend to actually know. It's just really done once
nowadays, any subsequent GNOME startup will detect that the detection
cache file is already there and do nothing.

 Update manager - purpose is *notification* of updates available

You mean update-notifier. That needs to stay, you need something in
the desktop session to react to new packages, update notifications,
apport crashes, etc.

Martin

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Weekly desktop team activity report

[Martin Pitt]

 it out.
 * A bit more work on the liblouis MIR.

Audio:
 * Audio bug triaging, bugs in question are against pulseaudio, alsa userspace, 
and the kernel for hardware enablement. Got rtkit into Ubuntu. Just need the 
kernel bits to make it fully work now.
 * Fixed an rtkit FTBFS on arm, due to upstream deciding to name a struct the 
same as a struct found in sys/user.h. Turns out that this header gets included 
when signal.h is also included by the application. A rename patch sent 
upstream, uploaded, and rtkit is now built on all architectures.
 * Filed a main inclusion report to get rtkit into main. Als filed an ITP with 
Debian, but Debian needs policykit-1 first.
 * Packaged the latest upstream version of libcanberra.
 * Made pulseaudio 0.9.16~test1 available in the new audio-dev team PPA, 
http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-audio-dev/+archive
 * Uploaded gnome-media 2.27.3.1 to karmic.

Misc:
 * Found that with the recent hal deprecation, that the touchpad on my notebook 
is not functioning. Filed a bug with relevant information.  

=== Martin Pitt (pitti) ===

Karmic spec drafting: all approved

Karmic feature work:
 * desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system:
  * got auto-debianization working
  * uploaded to Debian/Ubuntu, called for testing
  * beta available; should be useful for quickly and developers now
 * desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting: no progress this week
 * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy|hal deprecation]]: 
  * Ported gvfs completely to udev, patches sent to upstream
  * updated Ubuntu's gvfs package with above patches, now completely hal free
 * gnome-panel speedup: no development progress this week; this will be 
attacked after above three, since this does not have reverse dependencies

Other work done:
 * Lots of -intel/i915 debugging with upstream on my reports
 * Bug fixing in  apport, casper, devicekit-power, devicekit-disks, 
gnome-power-manager, gnome-screensaver, hal, jockey, udev
 * Fixed hal regression in jaunty-updates (LP #394663)
 * Reviewed/uploaded ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-storage-protocol from OLS
 * Tested gnome-shell packages

Merges: mine are all done

Sponsoring:
 * compiz, compiz-fusion-plugins-main, gnome-panel, gst-plugins-{bad,good}, 
libv4l, nautilus-share, unionfs-fuse, xscreensaver

=== Robert Ancell (robert_ancell) ===

On Desktop Summit this week.

=== Sebastien Bacher (seb128) ===

 * got gjs and gnome-shell packaged in the ubuntu-desktop ppa (thanks didrocks 
for giving an hand and packaging some of the components too)
 * gjs, gnome-shell debugging and testing
 * desktop summit

=== Tony Espy (awe) ===
 * reviewed the desktop-karmic-audio-experience specification, and added 
comments to the blueprint's whiteboard.
 * added lots of detail to the 
[[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ConnectionManagerComparison|Connection 
Manager comparison]] table.
 * started looked at nm-applet code with respect to changes outlined in our 
desktop-karmic-network-ui specification.
 * finished OEM NM/MM 0.7.1 applet merges.

=== Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter) ===

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[Bug 351577] Re: MIR - libpst

[Martin Pitt]

** Changed in: libpst (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) = Kees Cook (kees)

** Summary changed:

- MIR - libpst
+ [MIR] libpst

-- 
[MIR] libpst
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/351577
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Desktop, which is a bug assignee.

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Re: Why does Desktop CD manifest fall behind the actual cds?

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Bryan,

Bryan Quigley [2009-06-24 13:59 +0530]:
 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20090624/
 
 Note how everything was created on the same day except for the .manifest
 files.

That's because the live system currently fails to build:

http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/karmic/ubuntu/latest/livecd-20090625-i386.out

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  libtag1c2a: Depends: libtag1-vanilla (= 1.5-6) but it is not installable or
   libtag1-rusxmms (= 1.5-6) but it is not installable

That's because libtag1-vanilla is in universe, I promoted it now.

Martin
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Re: Desktop Team 20090623 meeting minutes

[Martin Pitt]

Rick Spencer [2009-06-23 17:00 -0700]:
 == X Update ==
  * We are ahead of curve on merges

Good job!

* 2107 total open X bugs; this is high but the rate of open growth
 bugs has leveled off, compared with the post-Jaunty period.
  * -nvidia and -intel are where most bug growth has occurred.
* Kernel updates have solved nearly all -intel problems on Jaunty.

\o/

* KMS on -intel is ready to switch on by default.  -ati / -nouveau
 WIP.

With those fixes in place now, would it make sense to do a mass bug
reply/set to needsinfo after alpha-3 to have people confirm that
their bug is still present on alpha3? This will probably allow us to
close a lot of them, and time out the ones without response, and might
be much faster than waiting for all reporters to close them by
themselves.

  * xorg-edgers is proving itself, both for testing of various KMS bits,
 and avoiding potential regressions in proposed updates.[0].

I have run them for pretty much entire Karmic without a lot of
problems, and if there are some, it's easy to temporarily revert back
to the Karmic version. I'd like to ask more people to run it,
especially the folks which do have video problems still.

Thanks,

Martin
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Re: Desktop Team 20090623 meeting minutes

[Martin Pitt]

Hello Bryce,

Bryce Harrington [2009-06-24  2:09 -0700]:
 Actually we got most of the important bits in place for alpha-2 so
 really no need to wait for alpha-3.

The idea was to have people test with KMS right away, and on live
systems (since few might be willing to install karmic at this early
stage).

Martin

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