Re: {Desktop 12.10 Topic] Holistic approach to Ubuntu documentation
On 19 April 2012 07:19, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: > This page was marked out of date nearly four years ago: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOnMac. Why does it even exist? I assume > it's simply because noone has the overview to systematically make sure > pages like that is either updated or deleted. It seems to me that there is a good reason to take a different approach to user help than to contributor documentation as regards deletion of material. There are quite a lot of pages on wiki.ubuntu.com that are out of date but that have specifically not been deleted because they can have historical value. So, looking back over the development of Ubuntu historically can sometimes be useful, to remember why something happened in a particular way. In my previous email on this thread, I dug out a specification created in 2005, for example. It was implemented over 5 years ago, and hasn't been touched since then, but keeping it around reminds us why we did something and can be used as a reference if a similar discussion crops up in the future. (I'm not saying this necessarily applies to the page you've referenced above, the explanation may be a less sophisticated one, like no one has had the chance to merge the information into whatever database is now used for such things, or simply that it should be deleted but hasn't yet been.) That's not the case for user help, there is no point keeping around a page which can only be applied to a deprecated version of Ubuntu on help.ubuntu.com. So evaluating the issue of deleting information using a single process isn't helpful. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: {Desktop 12.10 Topic] Holistic approach to Ubuntu documentation
On 19 April 2012 02:51, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: > Den 19. april 2012 03:11, skrev Jeremy Bicha: >> Your topic mixes developer docs, entry-level user docs, and "power >> user" docs. Each of those needs a different approach and I think it's >> simpler to tackle them as three mostly separate things. Also, if >> you're going to discuss documentation, you should probably include the >> docs team (CC'd now) as that's where people interested in that read. > > The point is the exact opposite. We shouldn't split documentation up > into completely unrelated pieces. That is the problem. I don't agree with this, and I agree with Jeremy. The fact that information provided to help users (help.ubuntu.com), information provided to help application developers (developer.ubuntu.com) and information provided to help contributors (wiki.ubuntu.com) could all be given the single label "documentation" or indeed "information" is just a matter of language. The three concepts are so fundamentally different that they justify and require a completely different approach, different websites and even a different authorship. It's not useful to think of them as different aspects of the same thing. They aren't. This is particularly important for users. We mustn't burden users looking for help with Ubuntu with the sort of complex and confusing information that is found on wiki.ubuntu.com or developer.ubuntu.com. We worked quite hard back in 2006 to separate these concepts out (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs) and I think it's important that we stand by it. Furthermore, the type of information being presented to users is so different to that presented to developers that it warrants different structure and a different style. As to authorship, developer material is usually best written by developers, because they know what they are talking about and have been through the process of learning about those concepts, whereas it's less common (albeit not impossible) that developers make good authors of user help because there the level of knowledge required is different, and the focus is on the skill of explaining something to a non-technical user in the most effective way. So good writers of user help are often non-technical people themselves. Having said that, I think that you also make a perfectly valid, point about the validity, quality and process used to updating documentation. Nothing I have said above is intended to suggest that we have a good process for user documentation - there is vast scope for improvement almost at every level, both in the structure of the user documentation, the quality of it, the number of contributors attracted, and so on. However, these types of points are entirely separate from the main point which you make about eliding different types of documentation. In relation to quality and process, you give a few specific examples of pages which are out of date and which are difficult to rely upon. I've no doubt you could have given dozens of examples. On the help wiki, we do have a way which has been established of dealing with such pages: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag For example, you mentioned this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/btrfs You're right that it seems to be drafted for older versions of Ubuntu, so I've added the "unsupported" tag. Your point of course would be that when you visited that page, in the role of a user, you weren't to know that the page could be out of date. And you're right that it would be useful to discuss whether there could be some kind of systematic process whereby pages are reviewed and updated on a regular basis, or whereby users themselves can report problem pages more easily than they can now. Any such discussion has of course to take into account the fact that there are actually not a lot of contributors to documentation. It therefore needs to be coupled with a separate discussion about how to attract more contributors. Such a discussion would be very useful. There are plenty of new ideas and approaches we could consider with a view to improving the user documentation. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for testing: LightDM
On 8 June 2011 09:09, Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 08:45:38AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >> On 8 June 2011 02:58, Bryce Harrington wrote: >> > On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 11:03:12AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >> >> I'm taking this opportunity to post a link to this comment on the >> >> proposed switch to lightDM from Matthew Garrett, in case people >> >> reading here haven't seen it, it seems relevant to this discussion and >> >> I haven't seen it mentioned before. >> >> >> >> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136274.html >> > >> > tl;dr version: "Every wart is earned in the process of fixing a bug; >> > those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, etc." Fairly bog >> > standard rant against doing something new. >> >> Actually, to be fair, I don't think that it is at that kind of level. >> It's not just a criticism of the concept of using something >> lightweight, the post looks specifically at differences between the >> competing software, features and design policies. > > Specifically? > > Boiling Matt's post down this is what I'm reading: > > 1. NIH > 2. It doesn't start a GNOME session > 3. Doesn't have arbitrary shiny stuff like slidy effects > 4. Auto-update when users are created or deleted > 5. Accessibility functionality UI > 6. Gratuitously drawing a clock > 7. Handle power policy via gnome-power-manager rather than via upower Well, your second post is a bit more like a rebuttal of the blog post than your first one was, and you've more or less stated the points that are made (except for point 6, which isn't really made), although I don't think you've really taken much time rebutting the reasoning behind points 2 and 7 (which seem to be the main focus of the post). For my part, I don't have the technical knowledge to even have an opinion on the issues raised, and I certainly can't participate in the discussion in any meaningful way. I have 100% faith in the decision makers and implementers in this team to get this right. As I mentioned originally, I just wanted to bring the post to the attention of the right people, as I hadn't seen it mentioned. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for testing: LightDM
On 8 June 2011 02:58, Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 11:03:12AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >> I'm taking this opportunity to post a link to this comment on the >> proposed switch to lightDM from Matthew Garrett, in case people >> reading here haven't seen it, it seems relevant to this discussion and >> I haven't seen it mentioned before. >> >> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136274.html > > tl;dr version: "Every wart is earned in the process of fixing a bug; > those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, etc." Fairly bog > standard rant against doing something new. Actually, to be fair, I don't think that it is at that kind of level. It's not just a criticism of the concept of using something lightweight, the post looks specifically at differences between the competing software, features and design policies. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for testing: LightDM
On 7 June 2011 10:02, Alan Bell wrote: > yeah, I would very much hope that lightdm does not introduce more > accessibility regressions. I'm taking this opportunity to post a link to this comment on the proposed switch to lightDM from Matthew Garrett, in case people reading here haven't seen it, it seems relevant to this discussion and I haven't seen it mentioned before. It also briefly discusses impact on accessibility, albeit without going into detail. http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136274.html -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Iain Lane wrote: > Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this mean > for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? I don't think there is a strong metaphor running through the application. That would be inconsistent with the idea that the name "store" had two meanings. The only thing I can see is the use of the word "Departments" on the first screen, right? It's not wholly out of place even with the change of name, but I guess it could be changed to "Categories" or similar. I'm sure the project developers will take a decision on that. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Just to report progress on this discussion - sabdfl has decided to adopt the name "Software Center". The comments on this thread were very helpful, as were the forum [1] and brainstorm [2] discussions/votes which showed pretty clear opinions among the community. If interested you can track the progress here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/436648 [1] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1256242 [2] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21362 -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Martin Pitt wrote: > Hello again, > >> to get yelp to pick up the omf files in that location, I'm >> pretty certain you only need to modify rarian > > Argh, while this seems true for most programs, it already breaks with > gnome-terminal. That unfortunately doesn't just call > ghelp:gnome-terminal (as most other GNOME programs do), but > terminal_util_show_help() detects the locale and assembles the xml > file path all by itself. I. e. with my rarian patch and moved files, > "yelp ghelp:gnome-terminal" works fine, but pressing F1 in g-t just > gives me the C help. This is surely a bug in gnome-terminal, isn't it? If so, can't we just do some testing and try and make sure that such bugs are fixed upstream? I'm willing to help test and report bugs. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
(adding back ubuntu-desktop@)
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Stephan Hermann wrote:
> The reason why anybodies blood start to boil right now, when they hear
> "Ubuntu Software {Store,Shop,Market,Wholesale,Supermarket,etc.pp}" is
> that Canonical right now is not making a big deal out of it. They tell
> you "We will go and we will sell commercial software with this
> tool"..that's more then transparent, and that's more then other
> "sponsoring companies" are telling their community.
For the record, that's not the reason behind my objection. Actually, I
haven't seen *anywhere* on this entire thread any suggestion that this
application shouldn't make commercial software available.
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Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Greg Grossmeier wrote: > I think Ubuntu has an opportunity here to create a new brand name for a > software repository that from the beginning implies Free to the user[0], > instead of the usual commercial-sounding options from other companies > (AppStore, Android Market, Palm Software Store, etc). Very well put, Greg. >> Unfortunately the naming was one thing that had to be done within >> Canonical, for boring legal reasons. > > As someone who also works with lawyers on a daily/weekly basis, I know > how hard it is to change (some of) their minds after the fact. I > understand if Canonical is unable to make this change at this time. I think we need to get this in proper perspective. Everyone here can agree that Ubuntu as a project and Canonical as a company should not take actions which are contrary to law. The Ubuntu project benefits from the fact that Canonical takes care of legal aspects for us, just as it takes care of a lot of other things in the community. However, I don't think that legal considerations can or should stop the project from discussing and adopting a valid and lawful name which fits the program best. The program hasn't yet been released, so I can't think of any legal impediment to changing its name while it is still in beta. I think the way this should have worked (and can still work) was that the project could have discussed the name openly and settled on a name or number of names which are acceptable. Then the lawyers can advise whether the name(s) chosen are legal, or not. Ideally they would participate in the discussion directly. Obviously if, having already been through the process internally, Canonical can tell us which names are off-limits legally, then that will help to exclude certain options. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> Matthew East wrote on 28/08/09 11:44:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas
>> wrote:
>>...
>>> "Center" was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic
>>> compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English
>>> spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. ("Catalog" had the same
>>> problem.)
>>
>> I don't get that at all. "Center" appears elsewhere in our desktop
>> ("Help Center")
>
> As I suggested two years ago, "Ubuntu Help" would be quite enough for
> that particul
You're probably right about that, but I don't think the use of
American English was part of your reasoning there. The reasoning is
about removing redundancy.
>> and it is simply translated by the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb
>> team to read "Centre" for those users who use that language.
>
> While it is obvious to, for example, someone fluent only in Italian that
> they should switch Ubuntu into Italian, it is not so obvious to someone
> who is fluent only in UK English (or who is setting up a computer for
> someone fluent only in UK English) that they should switch Ubuntu into
> UK English.
>
> The result is that some proportion of UK English speakers using Ubuntu
> will inevitably use it in the US English locale. I am not suggesting
> that words with different US English vs. UK English spellings should be
> verboten in Ubuntu interface text. But where can easily avoid those
> words in prominent places, like names of programs, we might as well.
For me, what you are saying boils down to that there are a small
proportion of users using the wrong locale, and a small portion of
those will feel irritated by the fact that the wrong locale they are
using contains foreign spellings. Even if that's true, I don't think
that's a good reason for choosing a name for the app which carries
commercial undertones and seems likely to confuse a larger proportion
of people.
But anyway, I don't think it's really true, because as far as I'm
aware people get the right locale when they install Ubuntu. I think if
people are getting the wrong locale, that's a usability issue or just
a straight bug that can be fixed. If a user gets the wrong locale from
their own choice or a mistake by a system administrator, I don't think
it's fair of them to blame Ubuntu just because the desktop uses that
locale! The proportion of those who do will be very small: let's face
it, us English speakers around the world understand each other fine
and understand and accept each other's differences.
We use American English consistently throughout applications and
documentation. That's why our en-gb translation team exists, and it
does a great job because I've never seen American English in my
desktop. Not that I'd mind...
>> As Przemysław pointed out, "Store" is a hell of a lot more difficult
>> to translate.
>>...
>
> I'm not a translator, but it's pretty obvious to me that you'll rarely
> be able to capture every nuance of a brand name when translating it.
> Instead, concentrate on choosing a name that is compelling in that
> particular language. (And try not to infringe any trade marks.)
Yes, one should do that. My point is mainly that this isn't a
compelling name. In this case I think the difficulty in translating
the name is in fact borne out of the fact that it's not a good name in
the first place. The secondary point is that if you have a choice, you
can also consider how the name is likely to work in other languages
and weigh that up together with other considerations.
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Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
(Adding ubuntu-desktop back to cc) On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Friday 28 August 2009 6:44:30 am Matthew East wrote: >> I saw that, but the problem is that people will not open the app in >> the first place. I saw the name "Ubuntu Software Store" before I saw >> your email explaining what it was, and it didn't occur to me that it >> could be anything other than a shop (probably a website) for buying >> programs. >> >> The comments on this thread so far have been unanimous about this... > > OK, I'll break it. I didn't assume the Ubuntu App Store would be all for-pay > stuff, since well...the iTunes App Store isn't. There are tons of free > (gratis) programs for iPhones available in there. So why should this App > Store be any different? Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and a snap survey of how different people react to this title is not unhelpful, I think. But I'd be disturbed if the conception of "store" in the majority of our users' understanding is affected by a naming scheme handed down by iTunes rather than plain English. It's also probably the case that the iTunes App Store does have much more commercially orientated goals than the Ubuntu Software Store. I haven't got an iPhone, so I hadn't come across this name. I do have a blackberry though. The blackberry equivalent is called "BlackBerry App World". -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Matthew East wrote on 27/08/09 20:20:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Przemek
>> Kulczycki wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Matthew East wrote:
>>...
>>>>> Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store.
>>...
>>>> Doesn't "store" imply that the user will be paying for the software?
>>>> I really liked "center".
>
> "Center" was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic
> compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English
> spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. ("Catalog" had the same
> problem.)
I don't get that at all. "Center" appears elsewhere in our desktop
("Help Center") and it is simply translated by the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb
team to read "Centre" for those users who use that language.
As Przemysław pointed out, "Store" is a hell of a lot more difficult
to translate.
> The nifty thing about "store" is that it has those two meanings -- shop,
> and repository -- and both of them are appropriate. But you're right
> that the shop meaning is more prominent. So as long as the Store doesn't
> yet contain paid software, we're counteracting that by using the section
> heading "Get Free Software" in the navigation, and "Price: Free" in the
> screens for individual applications.
I saw that, but the problem is that people will not open the app in
the first place. I saw the name "Ubuntu Software Store" before I saw
your email explaining what it was, and it didn't occur to me that it
could be anything other than a shop (probably a website) for buying
programs.
The comments on this thread so far have been unanimous about this...
> Unfortunately the naming was one thing that had to be done within
> Canonical, for boring legal reasons.
I assume that's to do with trademarks. But surely it's not too late to
make the right decision about this. Is "Ubuntu Software Center"
legally prohibited?
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Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Danny Piccirillo wrote: > So does this mean no packagekit? I knew plans for it in karmic had been > dropped but this appcenter will replace Add/Remove instead? Would it be > possible and/or worth it to base it on packagekit? Danny, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore: "The implementation is based on Add/Remove Applications (gnome-app-install), but may use PackageKit for some components." -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Matthew East wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: >> Matthew East [2009-08-27 19:36 +0100]: >>> I suspect that it should be possible to add an alternative search path >>> to yelp so that it checks in more than one location. >> >> It's not just yelp, though, there are also the omf files which seem to >> be handled by rarian? > > Yes, I don't know all the details but I think that rarian might need a > change as well. I've had a chat this evening with Shaun Mccance, the Gnome yelp maintainer. It seems that yelp gets its paths from rarian, and rarian gets its paths from the content of the omf files. So we can patch the omf files (seems to me to be a big job), patch rarian, or use the symlink idea of Loïc. I've pasted the conversation here and hope that it helps! I'm afraid I was asking rather uninformed questions, as I don't have a good understanding either of how yelp works, or of how Ubuntu packaging works. But hopefully it takes things forward a little. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/260590/ It looks to me like symlinking as Loïc suggested is going to be the best option, but that's just my impression. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: > Matthew East [2009-08-27 19:36 +0100]: >> I suspect that it should be possible to add an alternative search path >> to yelp so that it checks in more than one location. > > It's not just yelp, though, there are also the omf files which seem to > be handled by rarian? Yes, I don't know all the details but I think that rarian might need a change as well. >> Incidentally, is the stripping also going to be done for other >> packages using the directory /usr/share/gnome/help (such as >> ubuntu-docs)? > > Usually yes. Particular packages can opt out in the usual way by > setting NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 in debian/rules. > >> If so, am I right that we can go back to shipping all >> languages in the ubuntu-docs package, rather than only those which are >> >70% translated? > > That's indeed true, if you would like ubuntu-docs to be > stripped/distributed that way, too. I can't see any disadvantage - sounds neat, thanks for working on it. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Przemek Kulczycki wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Matthew East wrote: >> Hi Matthew, >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas >> wrote: >>> Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store. >>> <http://launchpad.net/software-store> >>> And it has a package in Ubuntu Karmic: software-store. >>> <http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store> >> >> Looking forward to trying this. I had a quick browse through the wiki >> page but couldn't find any discussion about the name, so here goes. >> >> Doesn't "store" imply that the user will be paying for the software? I >> really liked "center". > > Only for the Americans I guess :) > Those who learned British English will understand store as a warehouse/stock. Well, I don't know any free warehouses either... But I'm British, and my primary understanding of a "store" is an online or physical place where I can purchase things. Anyhow, Ubuntu's primary locale is US English, so I think a discussion of the name should proceed on the basis that the name should work in US English. I can see from the spec (and LP answer 81103) that it will be possible to purchase software from this app in the future, but it will also be possible to get software for free there, and for that reason I think a neutral name that fits both is preferable. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks
Hi Martin, On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: > With normal gettext mo files we solved that problem by storing them in > a separate directory (/usr/share/locale-langpack/), but doing the same > is not that easy for GNOME help; I'm not quite sure whether adding an > alternative search path to yelp and rarian is sufficient, or whether > this would need adaptions to other packages as well. However, I have > seen some hardcoded file references in e. g. the rarian source package: > > ./data/beanstalk.document:DocPath[de]=/usr/share/gnome/help/beanstalk/de/beanstalk.xml > > which would definitively break due to that change. (The file isn't > actually shipped, though). I suspect that it should be possible to add an alternative search path to yelp so that it checks in more than one location. If not, then it should be and upstream should be responsive to making it happen within this release cycle, I would have thought. Likewise, it seems to me that such hardcoded file references might be fixable bugs. For reference "beanstalk.xml" is an example which some of the upstream developers use when planning features in the Gnome help (see http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/quack/mallard.xml). I don't think it's a real file at all. If that's the only hardcoded path, I suspect that it's a red herring. Incidentally, is the stripping also going to be done for other packages using the directory /usr/share/gnome/help (such as ubuntu-docs)? If so, am I right that we can go back to shipping all languages in the ubuntu-docs package, rather than only those which are >70% translated? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Hi Matthew, On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store. > <http://launchpad.net/software-store> > And it has a package in Ubuntu Karmic: software-store. > <http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store> Looking forward to trying this. I had a quick browse through the wiki page but couldn't find any discussion about the name, so here goes. Doesn't "store" imply that the user will be paying for the software? I really liked "center". -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Desktop Team 20090428 meeting minutes
Hi,
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Rick Spencer wrote:
> Here are the minutes from the desktop team meeting. You can also find
> them and the irc log here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-04-28
{snip}
> == U1 ==
> * rickspencer3 mandated that the desktop team join and use U1
> * Instructions to get started:
> https://ubuntuone.com/support/installation/
I'm a big fan of these meeting summaries, they are a great way to
ensure that Ubuntu work is conducted publically, but this is a bit
cryptic - I can't find anywhere on the wiki or the meeting log an
explanation of what "Ubuntu One" is.
Could someone explain?
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Re: Should mousing over (but not clicking) audio files on the desktop cause them to play invisibly?
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Scott Ritchie wrote: > So, by default Gnome has a feature that I've seen confuse at least a few > users - if you leave the mouse over top an audio file it will > automatically start playing the file, even if it's already open or you > have other music playing at the same time. A "me too" from me. That's always struck me as a crazy feature. I don't know if it is feasible to disable it at this stage in the release cycle, but I'd certainly welcome the change. I'm not convinced that the upstream bug has had much serious discussion, it's only one developer commenting so far. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Fwd: Could we have the panel menu patched? Charitable bounty included.
Forwarding to ubuntu-desktop, which I think is the appropriate list for discussion of this. Copying in Oli in case he isn't subscribed. I have to say that this issue also bothers me... I'd like to see any of the proposed solutions implemented. -- Forwarded message -- From: Oli Warner Date: Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:08 PM Subject: Could we have the panel menu patched? Charitable bounty included. To: ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com The behaviour of the places menu is driving me insane. In short, I want to be able to have more than five bookmarks or drives before the menu truncates into another level. See: http://i.thepcspy.com/blog/20080626-ubuntu/menu.jpg I posted this in the forums yesterday but I guess that's the wrong audience: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6796654#post6796654 I'm hoping I have more luck here. There are a few really simple fixes (and one slightly tougher one), any of which would make my use of the panel menu about a billion times nicer: 1. Replace the current static value MAX_ITEMS_OR_SUBMENU with a higher value. The two downsides are this doesn't fix the problem, it just puts it off, and a higher value might not work for people with tiny screen heights. 2. Move the MAX_ITEMS_OR_SUBMENU variable off into gconf or some other user-accessible variable store. This would be an excellent fix but it's hardly a "just works" style of thinking. 3. Rip out the whole block of logic and make the places panel scroll if there are too many entries. You'd probably need to work out the panel orientation to work out the starting scroll point. 4. (The tougher one): detect the screen height and work out how many entries the menu could support. and truncate/scroll on that basis. #1 would work for me but might break things for others. I don't think it's a viable option for the masses. #2 is the safest compromise (shouldn't break anything but allows people to bump the number higher) #3 least hassle but might not work for all people #4 as 3. So if somebody who knows gnome-panel can sit down, implement their favourite of #2/#3/#4 and con, rape and pillage the right people to get this included in the Ubuntu build process for Jaunty (I've no idea how that process really works), I'll donate £30 to a charity (or FOSS project) of your choice. If you think I'm crazy (and/or think this will never work), please point out why. -- Oli Warner -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: gnome-control-center
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Martin Pitt wrote: > I agree, though, that the preferences menu is too large. It > would be nice if there were subgroups and some more cleverness: For me, the problem is not only that the preferences menu is so long and isn't broken down into categories as in the control-center, but also my feeling that a regular user will simply not comprehend the distinction drawn between "administration" and "preferences". That's what makes a configuration setting so hard to find, because it's unclear which menu it will be in. Even though I've used and contributed to Ubuntu for years, I still find myself thinking twice about which menu I need to look in. I guess that the distinction is intended to be that apps in "administration" change system wide settings, and those in "preferences" change user-only settings, but that distinction is much too complex for most users, I think. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
gnome-control-center
I wonder if it would be appropriate for inclusion of gnome-control-center to be considered again for Jaunty. I still think that the points made in my email below remain valid in Jaunty - for me the absence of a structured preferences menu is the main problem that stands out at me from Ubuntu's otherwise awesome desktop. There wasn't really a very comprehensive discussion of the issues when I raised this back in August 2008. Oliver raised an objection that it takes 30 seconds for control-center to open, but I've tried it now on a few different computers and it always opens promptly: do we have any idea whether the problem Oliver experienced is common or a rare bug on certain hardware? In any event, perhaps it is solved now that 6 months further development has occurred. Do other members of the desktop team have views on this issue? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Forwarded message ------ From: Matthew East Date: Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:38 AM Subject: gnome-control-center To: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com Hi, I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been reconsidered for Intrepid? I tried Suse recently and one of the obvious things that was done better than Ubuntu was that it didn't have the awkward "Administration" / "Preferences" distinction for configuration tools. For me it's one of the most uncomfortable things about our desktop, and gnome-control-center would make a big improvement, if it is suitable for inclusion. It strikes me that Intrepid is an ideal release to introduce something like this. If it's already been considered and rejected, perhaps you could point me towards an explanation of the reasons. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Rick Spencer
wrote:
> All -
>
> A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the
> "Add/Remove..." menu item.
{snip}
> Solution:
> Change the name of "Add/Remove..." to "Software Library".
I've always felt myself that "Add/Remove..." didn't make much sense as
a name. The fact that it ends with an ellipsis was always a mystery to
me. Software Library is a much clearer name.
I agree with Oliver that "Add/Remove..." seems to refer to adding or
removing items from a menu, but I think that is the wrong effect to
seek in the first place - what the application does isn't to add or
remove things from a menu (the menu editor does that) but rather to
add or remove programs to the installation.
Wholehearted +1 from me.
--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF
--
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gnome-power-manager human icon set
Hi, I'd like to draw some attention to this bug, which has been open now for over 2 and a half years, and is still a problem in the latest release. https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-power/+bug/32921 Essentially, the colours used in the gnome-power-manager icons for the Human theme are too pessimistic and make the user think that they are low on battery even when the battery is around half full. It's bothered me ever since the gpm icons were introduced back in Dapper, because the only way to get a genuine reading of the battery level is to hover over the icon, and it's annoying to have to do that all the time. There are plenty of comments on the bug reports of users agreeing with this, and I think it is a usability problem. Is anyone able to take a look at fixing this? I'm copying the art team in case they have the expertise to improve these icons. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Unmounting removable devices
Hi, On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:22 PM, James Westby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Currently I find unmounting removable devices in GNOME is less than > optimal for a couple of reasons. > > Firstly, I don't think I should have to open nautilus or go to the > desktop to do this, though it's not the end of the world. Secondly, > there is no notification when you just yank out a removable device, and > no real indication that you should unmount before doing so, so it's not > obvious to new users. [...] > I have two questions. Firstly, the technical one of what needs to > happen. Is nautilus the correct place for this? If not, what should be? > > The second is the more philosophical one, should we be doing this? I think it's a good idea. Whether they use Windows or Ubuntu, new users (at least those I know) hardly ever get to know that they should unmount removable devices before unplugging them. > If so, what should it look like? Panel applet? Notification icon? > Something else? There are already notification popups which appear when a removable device is unmounted properly, so I guess this could be extended to the situation where a removable device is removed without unmounting. Equally, a message could popup when a device is connected which explains that it should be unmounted before unplugging it. But I guess the only way to provide a simple way to unmount the device would be to ship the applet you refer to in our default panel, and hide it when nothing is plugged in. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Empty "Create Document" menu
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Sebastien Bacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Le jeudi 30 octobre 2008 à 12:42 +, Matthew East a écrit : >> >> However, I don't agree that just because an issue requires discussion >> on a mailing list, it is appropriate to mark the bug as "Invalid". >> Valid bugs are frequently discussed on the lists. > > The bug has not been closed because it requires a discussion but because > that's not a nautilus bug and something upstream decided to not change. Ok! In that case, I think we're back to my original email in which I set out why I think this issue is for distros to address, and not upstream. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Empty "Create Document" menu
Sebastien, On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Sebastien Bacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the launchpad nautilus bug has been closed > because that's not a nautilus bug and such changes should be discussed > on a mailing list where you will get comments on and not a bug tracker. > the way to do that would be to copy some templates in the user > directory, note that doing that automatically when adding an user has > been decided against before because it's specific to GNOME and users > doing server installation don't want those template for example. I understand that the change required doesn't necessarily affect nautilus. And I agree that the templates should not be included for a server installation. However, I don't agree that just because an issue requires discussion on a mailing list, it is appropriate to mark the bug as "Invalid". Valid bugs are frequently discussed on the lists. It's either a valid problem, or it isn't. In this case in my previous email I was expressing the opinion that it is a valid problem, and therefore that the bug should not have been closed. Obviously, you're free to disagree with that :) You also seem to be suggesting that the fact that the fix to the bug would not be in nautilus is an independent reason to close the bug. If so, I don't agree with that either: marking a bug as invalid carries stigma, because it implies to the reporter that the issue reported is not a real problem, and because invalid bugs are not included in searches. The simplest approach in such cases is simply to change the affected source package to another one. If it is unclear what package is affected, the "source package" box can be left blank. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Empty "Create Document" menu
Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:38 PM, A. Walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I personally have no problem seeing Ubuntu ship a few default > templates in /etc/skel/. From my GNOME point of view, I think it'd be > a healthy thing to do, and I think distros have the good sense to > manage what they put in there, even though it's not "recommended". This is the problem right here. I think it's pretty uncontestable, for the reasons that Michael Meeks states on the Gnome mailing list thread, that having some templates in ~/Templates by default would improve enormously the user experience. So, it's a valid bug. But, it's been closed by the Ubuntu developer because we have one Gnome developer, not even the nautilus maintainers, with a loud voice on a thread on the Gnome mailing list saying it's a bad idea because he doesn't trust distributors to do a good job to maintain a healthy list of templates. It seems plain to me having read the thread that the correct approach here is for distros to take responsibility for this and ship some templates in ~/Templates by default (whether using /etc/skel or other technical means). It's only distros who have control over whether that list of templates will get "cluttered" or not, so it's distros who can keep it clean. I think closing the bug was the wrong decision and I really hope that it can be reconsidered as a potential feature for Ubuntu 9.04. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: About Pidgin being labeled as "Pidgin Internet Messenger" in the application menu
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you want to drive this, please do (get ubuntu-doc approval, file an > upstream bug, get their ack, create a patch, get it sponsored). Please > yell here if you need help with any step. It won't be an issue to make the necessary change to the documentation (http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/internet/C/internet-instant-messaging.html) but please send an email to the docteam and translation team mailing lists when this is done so that we can ensure that the amendments are done quickly. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Has the Window decoration for Intrepid (Gnome) been finalized?
Hi Chandru, Moving from ubuntu-devel-discuss to ubuntu-desktop, the correct list for this query. On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Chandru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > The window decoration available in Alpha 5 of Intredpid, feels like a step > backward compared to the Window decoration of Hardy. Has the Window > Decoration to be used finalized for Intrepid? It should have been, yes. Intrepid is currently in UserInterfaceFreeze, which means that by default anything affecting user visible strings or the UI shouldn't change between now and release: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze Having said that of course, the background still has a heron painted on it, so that will require an exception. Hopefully that will be done sooner rather than later. > Is it only me who feels this way or do others feel the same too? I disagree - I think the window look in current Intrepid has improved quite a bit. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: New system sounds.
Hi, I'll add my +1 to this suggestion. I'm afraid to say that I've never liked the current system sounds - I thought the old ones sounded a more professional and distinctive, and I agree with others that we need to find an unobtrusive but distinctive sound which can become part of Ubuntu's image as much as its desktop theme or its name. Preferably without any cheesy cymbal crashes :) The sounds posted by Cory sound nice to me. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: gnome-control-center
Hi Oliver, On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Oliver Grawert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi, > On Fr, 2008-08-29 at 08:38 +0100, Matthew East wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was >> considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been >> reconsidered for Intrepid? > it is included since gutsy ... just enable the menu entry for it in your > menu editor ;) I'm aware of that, what I meant by "inclusion by default" was that it would be active in the menu without requiring enabling in the menu editor. > i personally still doubt the usability to wait 30sec for a > control-center shell window to come up If that's not an exaggeration, then that would of course be a serious issue. On my computer it certainly doesn't take 30 seconds, it's more like 3-4 seconds. Do you know the reason for the delay on your computer? If that's a common bug then of course I accept it is a valid justification of the status quo. > and then search with a search > tool for the thing i need while i just wanted to quickly change a > setting ... Actually, it's easier to find an application in gnome-control-center because they are grouped in categories. Looking for the correct tool to change a configuration setting in the long Administration/Preferences menus is actually very difficult unless you already know what it is called - not all of them are completely intuitive. That's ok for people who have been using Gnome a while, but it must be hell for those who haven't. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
gnome-control-center
Hi, I recall that a couple of releases back gnome-control-center was considered for inclusion by default in Ubuntu. Has it been reconsidered for Intrepid? I tried Suse recently and one of the obvious things that was done better than Ubuntu was that it didn't have the awkward "Administration" / "Preferences" distinction for configuration tools. For me it's one of the most uncomfortable things about our desktop, and gnome-control-center would make a big improvement, if it is suitable for inclusion. It strikes me that Intrepid is an ideal release to introduce something like this. If it's already been considered and rejected, perhaps you could point me towards an explanation of the reasons. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Unneeded System Tools menu
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Milan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In Hardy, all applications that don't really manage system-wide or user > settings were moved from System->Preferences and ->Administration to > Applications->System Tools. > > This is a good idea as a general rule since previously both > configuration menus were bloated by numerous tools. But in the default > install, adding a System Tools menu in Applications in not > user-friendly. The two only tools that appear there are hwtest-gtk and > gnome-system-monitor: these are not likely to be used by the base user; > furthermore, their use is very different from that of most applications, > i.e. editing documents, and so on. > > So I suggest we choose either to put g-s-m and back to > System->Administration, or we hide its icon, adding elsewhere a way to > start it (a keyboard shortcut?), and the sme for hwtest-gtk. We may > consider short-term and long-term solutions to this, because the current > situation is IMHO not very good. > > This was already raised in this bug (with one duplicate): > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/205190 I agree that the current solution is badly presented. The problem for me is that we already have a "System" menu, so it's inelegant in the extreme to show the user a "System Tools" menu under the Applications menu. A better solution in my opinion would be to move the Applications -> System Tools submenu to a System -> Tools submenu. Copying this email to -desktop. Matt -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Menu Rationalisation (was Re: I hope people are paying attention...)
Hi On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 04:02 +, Nanley Chery wrote: > > > > > Wiki is up! Sorry for the delay, I was a tad busy. > > > > > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited2 > > I booted a hardy livecd yesterday and I agree with quite a few of the > points made there. > > The "Internet" menu is particularly bad - "Transmission" (which > strikes me as something that only the vast minority of desktop users > will use) doesn't explain what it is This is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/184238 (marked as fix committed). > and the Avahi entries are really > confusing (the SSH one duplicates nautilus's "Connect to Server" > function, afaics). These appear to have been removed now. The only outstanding issues appear to be the presence of "hwtest-gtk" as the solitary item in "System Tools" (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hwtest/+bug/204561) and the presence of displayconfig-gtk in "Other" (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/displayconfig-gtk/+bug/203612 - fix committed). So most of the prominent problems are either fixed or on their way to being fixed. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Menu Rationalisation (was Re: I hope people are paying attention...)
Hi, On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 04:02 +, Nanley Chery wrote: > > > Wiki is up! Sorry for the delay, I was a tad busy. > > > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited2 I booted a hardy livecd yesterday and I agree with quite a few of the points made there. The "Internet" menu is particularly bad - "Transmission" (which strikes me as something that only the vast minority of desktop users will use) doesn't explain what it is, and the Avahi entries are really confusing (the SSH one duplicates nautilus's "Connect to Server" function, afaics). Has any progress been made on the spec? I'm happy to start filing a few bugs about these issues. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Gnome-Bt should be removed from applications menu
Hi, On Jan 3, 2008 5:50 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Although I think the rationale you've presented Matthew makes sense, I > know it confused my friend who recently installed Ubuntu. > > 1. His friend told him he had to install a bittorent client to download xyz. > 2. He saw that gnome-bt was already installed but couldn't find the menu item. > 3. He asked me for help. > > It didn't occur to him that if he attempted to download a torrent > file, it would auto-magically work for him. Wait... why would anyone > assume that? It's the natural assumption - your friend was only confused because of misleading advice at point 1 ;-) -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Gnome-Bt should be removed from applications menu
Hi, On Jan 3, 2008 5:31 PM, Andrea Veri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Matthew, > > Do you have a good motivation to have the Gnome-bt entry removed from > there (apart from that outdated wiki page last modified on 2005)? As far as I know that wiki page still represents Ubuntu policy (if it hasn't been modified for a long time, it's because it was approved and implemented in Ubuntu 6.06). And yes, for the record I think the motivation expressed there is a valid one (it hasn't lost its applicability just because the page hasn't been edited) - menu entries which relate to programs which are more conveniently called from other applications can be removed in order to avoid over cluttering the menu. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Gnome-Bt should be removed from applications menu
Hi, On Jan 2, 2008 7:42 PM, Andrea Veri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nanley Chery ha scritto: > > All it does is allow a user to > > select a bittorrent file to start downloading with; however, in firefox, > > the gnome bittorrent client is already called upon, by default, whenever a > > user downloads a bittorent file. > > > > > > I don't consider this as a good rationale to have its entry removed > (also the .desktop file is directly shipped upstream), plus I won't > diverge the gnome-bt packages between Debian and Ubuntu just for a > *small* and *unjustified* change like this one. I don't think it is particularly appropriate to assert that this change is *unjustified* with that emphasis. That's just your opinion. In fact, the proposal (and the justification) has been accepted by the Ubuntu developers for some time - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited. If Gnome-BT has reappeared, it seems to me that this is a regression. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Turning the low disk space notifications back on
On 10/11/2007, Corey Burger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > During the dapper cycle, gnome-volume-manager gained the ability to > warn on low disk space. It was turned off due to a deluge of > complaints. Given these notifcations are actually fairly useful, maybe > we should tweak the policy and turn them back on for Hardy, at least > during the dev cycle. Basically, there are two major use cases that I > can see: warning when / is getting full and warning when your > removable disk is getting full. > > What do other people think? I've been getting these notifications in Gutsy. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: panel weirdness today
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 10:39 -0400, JoE wrote: > After today's Feisty update, I've got weirdness in my panel. The > network disconnect icon is up and selecting it says that I have no > network device. My network is still working fine, so i'm sure it's > just reading the wrong space. Just an FYI to anyone working on this. Me too. This is a recurrence of bug 82335 I think. https://launchpad.net/bugs/82335 Matt -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: update of gnome-user-docs
On Mon, March 26, 2007 11:02 am, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello Matt, > > Am Montag, den 26.03.2007, 10:48 +0200 schrieb Matthew East: >> I think there is a problem. First of all, my system (Feisty default >> installation with all upgrades) doesn't have this package. > > Martin Pitt just purged gnome2-user-docs (and gnome2-user-guide) from > the archive Purged just for Feisty right? I believe that gnome2-user-docs is still required for older version of Ubuntu. Is gnome-user-docs going to be in "main" now? > I changed the depends line in ubuntu-docs. Debdiff > attached. Thanks for doing that. > Thanks for lettings us know. Thanks for taking care of this. Matt -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: update of gnome-user-docs
Hiya, On Mon, March 26, 2007 9:52 am, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello Matt, > > Am Montag, den 26.03.2007, 08:11 +0100 schrieb Matthew East: >> Do we get an updated version of gnome-user-docs in this release? we >> currently have 2.16, 2.18 is out: >> >> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-user-docs/+bug/96060 > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache show gnome-user-guide | grep Vers > Version: 2.18.0-0ubuntu1 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ Thanks for the quick response. I think there is a problem. First of all, my system (Feisty default installation with all upgrades) doesn't have this package. Next, in main I can only see gnome2-user-guide 2.16 in the archive: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome2-user-docs/ The package "gnome-user-guide" appears to be in universe: http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/gnome/gnome-user-guide Any idea what's going on? Matt > > > I think we're all set, aren't we? > > Have a nice day, > Daniel > > -- > ubuntu-desktop mailing list > ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop > -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
update of gnome-user-docs
Do we get an updated version of gnome-user-docs in this release? we currently have 2.16, 2.18 is out: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-user-docs/+bug/96060 It would be nice, some of our documentation relies on documents provided by gnome2-user-guide. Matt -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Help Menu Specification
Hi there, On Fri, January 19, 2007 1:29 pm, Sebastian Heinlein wrote: > Am Montag, den 15.01.2007, 23:38 + schrieb Matthew East: >> MPT and I have created the following spec: >> >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess >> >> Feedback very welcome! > > I would also appreciate this approach! Nice that you at first point the > user to the locally installed help and then if no solution could be > found to the Internet based resources. Currently most users that ask > questions in the forum or the mailing list haven't even searched the > documentation. Thanks for this feedback, we feel the same way! > The GNOME documentation also includes a chapter about desktop basics > (e.g. using windows). Would be nice to something for novice users too. We're incorporating this part if the GNOME documentation (and some other parts) into our topic based system. > There is already the icon on the panel. I think that it removes the need > for a help top menu item. You're right - this isn't part of the spec, Matthew has amended the text to clarify this. I've now asked mdz to approve this spec so that we can move to implementation. Matt -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Help Menu Specification
MPT and I have created the following spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess Feedback very welcome! -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: bug on h.u.c frontpage
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * Duncan Lithgow: > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/54628 > > No-one has commented on this yet, so I thought I'd bring it more clearly > to your attention. (wrong list, forwarding to right list, please remove -desktop after this mail). I hope that we will be able to merge the wiki and static online docs for the next release, we'll definitely discuss your bug and bear it in mind. Thanks, Matt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE80KJtSaF0w5rBv8RAl7pAJ4kaD05IvTOpg9E/RH93e76twz9lACfX5ZT vNNWdJjbknCZf0YOVm50lsI= =8yjd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: adding X to server (+ documentation)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, * Marcus Wagenaar: > JoE wrote: >> Hmm . . . i'm not suggesting that we use all the same documentation. >> It would be useless, for example, to have synaptic documentation on >> server. > > That's wasn't my idea either ;-) I just meant that the specific parts of > documentation that are relevant to the server environment. > >> But a good guide for installing various X environments (basic >> X windows stuff, ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, etc) should be >> there. Mostly what I meant was that the changes we make to the way >> documentation is used and accessed should be echoed. > > Sorry, I really don't understand what you mean (the last sentence) but > would like to give some input and maybe contribute to the documentation. > Maybe you could clarify (ie. give a specific example) of server > documentation. I don't have access to an ubuntu-server now so it would > help if you could give an example of how the documentation is accessed > at this point in time, and how the documentation looks. > > I assumed the documentation was taken from various sources (official > documentation, wiki, forum) and manually put together in (text-only) > html pages (or something similar) with an index. That's why I suggested > to focus on the actual documentation first before putting alot of effort > into gathering/converting it for use in a server environment without X. > > Some examples would make this discussion alot easier and may encourage > people like me to start contributing documentation. For discussing documentation, jump onto the documentation mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc We produce a server guide which will benefit from your help! Matt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEzw8HtSaF0w5rBv8RArSaAJ91ylpVCNYR0TZ3+YWxy0hTfh0RuQCfW6OR 0Xd7PZ9nhOhs6/amE7sdf/Q= =NOni -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
[Fwd: the Ubuntu help menu]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I realised that I should have cross posted this to the desktop list too, no doubt lots of people who follow that list will have views about how best to make the system documentation usable and discoverable. All feedback welcome! Matt - Original Message Subject: the Ubuntu help menu Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:20:29 +0100 From: Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder I recently blogged about the Ubuntu help menu, and the documentation team has been discussing it for some time. I'd be interested in people's views. We're quite aware that the current system documentation is not very widely used, and we're looking at ways to improve it. Any suggestions or comments are welcome! http://www.mdke.org/blog/HelpMenu.html Matt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFExjl9tSaF0w5rBv8RAof4AJ9ZxsfFRGeg7r8E/NWWgqLuVubLTgCfVIz5 qcnnN654r/ZvvFLFswnPtmA= =gDMw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Shipping fspot instead of gthumb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, * Corey Burger: > Hey all, > > Time to start yet another discussion. Hopefully this will not go > offtopic as badly my last one did. Anyway, I think we should ship > fspot in place of gthumb. I just installed f-spot to try it, and quite like it, but I prefer gthumb at the moment. A few points specific to my experience: 1. fspot crashed very early when I started using it. It gave a pretty good error report so that looks good for bug reporting, but it is only at version 0.1.11 so I think it is important to look at whether it is too early in its development to ship it by default. Others will be better able to look at this than I am. 2. the default view is arranging things by date - that's no good for my photos which are organised by folder, and lots of them don't have a date because they are scanned from a non-digital camera or taken with a camera without the correct date. I suspect this is common with most users. 3. the folder view is not very helpful - I have organised my photos into folder and f-spot will organise them by folder, but it insists upon displaying all my photos on the same page rather than allowing me to navigate through the folders. 4. the "export to gallery" doesn't seem to be as feature rich as the gthumb one - I use this a lot and like to be able to choose between different themes. Otherwise f-spot seems really nice, I think I will try and keep using it and submit some bug reports. However I am not sure whether it is ready for Edgy. Matt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEvjDbtSaF0w5rBv8RAt2+AJ41J540v6YclcAhZojLiiBobTpleACeMWbi rbg5OUEQBMMrOg3ocexGO1E= =iyzE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
screen flickering in gksu
Hi, Is anything going to be done about bug 5970 before release (such as by turning off the screen fade effect for gksu)? Flicker when fading back in after password prompt https://launchpad.net/bugs/5970 Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Rhythmbox Quickstarter
On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 11:37 +0200, Christophe Augier wrote:
{some stuff}
Is there a reason everyone is sending two copies of these emails to so
many different mailing lists?
Stop the madness... go to the bugtracker! At the very least, just one
copy of emails, and just one relevant mailing list (-devel or -desktop),
please!
Matt
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Re: GNOME Optimization
Hi Joel, On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 07:38 +0800, Joel Bryan T. Juliano wrote: [several emails] Looks like you're doing some nice work, but there is really no need to send these emails to every list you can think of. Just -desktop is fine (or better still, file a bug with your patches attached). Thanks a lot. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: inconsistent use of the words "suspend" and "sleep" on the desktop
On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 17:59 -0500, Jonathon Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 15:33 -0600, Bonilla, Alejandro wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 17:23 -0400, Patrick McFarland wrote: > > > On Tuesday 02 May 2006 12:23, Matthew East wrote: > > > > A translator has brought it to my attention that the words "sleep" and > > > > "suspend" are used with different meanings on the desktop. Specifically, > > > > gnome-power-manager gets it wrong. In my understanding, the correct use > > > > of the words (as used in the logout dialogue and the > > > > file /etc/default/acpi-support) is like this: > > > > > > > > Sleep = Suspend to Ram > > > > Hibernate = Suspend to Disk > > > > > > > > GPM uses them like this: > > > > > > > > Suspend = Sleep to Ram) > > > > Hibernate = Sleep to Disk) > > > > > > > > > > IMO, Suspend and Hibernate really are the correct terms. WIndows gets it > > > wrong > > > by saying Sleep and Hibernate. > > > > I think it's over talked about what people really need or the options we > > have. > > > > Suspend is Suspend to RAM, Hibernate is to (Suspend, Sleep, Save) to > > Disk. > > > > http://www.lifsoft.com/power/faq.htm > > > > -- > > Alejandro Bonilla > > > > If I was a user, (which I am) the terms "sleep" and "hibernate" make > much more sense than the term "suspend." Both "sleep" and "hibernate" > are ways to suspend the system from actual processing, but "sleep" is > light (memory), and "hibernate" is deep (disk). Couldn't agree more. However, I couldn't really care less as long as the logout dialogue and gnome-power-manager are consistent (which right now, they are not). It would be great to get a definitive opinion about which vocabulary to use (mdz?), and then get it sorted (announcing any consequent string change to the translators). Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
inconsistent use of the words "suspend" and "sleep" on the desktop
A translator has brought it to my attention that the words "sleep" and "suspend" are used with different meanings on the desktop. Specifically, gnome-power-manager gets it wrong. In my understanding, the correct use of the words (as used in the logout dialogue and the file /etc/default/acpi-support) is like this: Sleep = Suspend to Ram Hibernate = Suspend to Disk GPM uses them like this: Suspend = Sleep to Ram) Hibernate = Sleep to Disk) This inconsistency is a bit unprofessional, but is not that serious because it is only a preference dialogue after all. However, it is going to cause all sorts of problems for translators, who will be translating GPM bearing in mind how they translated the logout dialogue (and vice versa). This will lead to translations which mean the reverse of what they should. Is there a good case for a string freeze exception? What is the process for obtaining such an exception (the wiki page doesn't explain)? The relevant bug is: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/34152 Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Expanding logout dialogue
On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 11:24 +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > I'm with Matt and Vincent who think that there are simply too many > options on the logout dialogue, so I though I would try making an > expanding one where you hide some of the less common options. > > Mock-up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/collapsing-logout.png Very nice idea, well done for removing Lock Screen. All in all, awesome. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 22:02 +0100, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: > >> IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average > >> user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of > >> these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people > >> regularly use both options. > > Except there's a darn good reason why on some occasions you want one > > option, and on others, you want the other. > > Well, some users want both options, but those who don't know the > difference (which we have established is most people) don't. And almost all users that will use hibernate and standby are laptop users. Am I wrong in thinking that these are options which are generally activated by pressing the relevant function key on the laptop? I certainly have never used these options in the logout menu. Another thing to consider is that hibernate on linux is really not working particularly well: on my computer it takes about the same amount of time to hibernate and come back up as it does to reboot. But the main problem here, as vuntz pointed out, is really that there are lots of things in the logout dialogue that shouldn't be there, or at best, should be in a separate dialogue. adding 2 more cents to the ever-increasing pot. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
On Tue, 2006-04-04 at 11:48 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Manu Cornet wrote: > > Here's a new version of the dialog : > > > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/dialog.png > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/logout.png > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png > I quite like the explanatory text. Daniel, is that easy to factor in? Just to stick in two more cents, I agree with mpt: a logout dialogue that needs explanatory text is _really_ doing something wrong. The labels and the icons should be clear enough. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Help Icon in gnome-panel
Hi, On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 19:10 +0100, Manu Cornet wrote: > > Hi ! > > > I'm not for abusing notify bubble, but maybe we could have one on the > > first startup to indicate that the applications menu is where to go to > > run some programs and that the system menu is the place to go to get the > > help stuff? > > > > An another option would be a first startup note or something like that > > I had suggested this a while ago : > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/JPEG/Startup_notification_transp.png > > (we could add something about help). > > I had made a patch, too :) Did anything ever come of this? A notification on first startup which says "Welcome to Ubuntu. If you need help with your system, choose System -> Help" would rock. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: "Log out" menu item
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 11:16 -0500, Andy Somerville wrote: > On 3/22/06, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > My personal choice would be "Exit...", but I have heard other > > > > suggestions as well : > > > > > > > > * Exit session... > > > > > > > > * Quit... > > > > > > > > * Quit session... > > > > > > All those give you the idea that the dialog is to exit for the session > > > which is wrong, you can lock the screen from it by example ... > on a tangent... why is lock in the "logout" menu when it is also > directly above it in the system menu as well. If lock was not in the > menu, "Free the computer" might be appropriate. Here's my suggestion: remove "Lock Screen" from the dialogue, and call it "Exit..." You'd probably have to remove "Switch User" too. And while at it, it'd be nice to remove Standby and Hibernate. If we insist on having loads of different options in that dialogue, then i'd still go for "Exit...". It doesn't fit exactly, as Seb pointed out, but it is as close as we'll get, I think. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: New icons for gnome-logout dialog
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 01:18 +0100, Josué Alcalde González wrote: > I update Yasis icon theme some days ago. > It is GPL and its author is Silvestre Herrera. > > I found a new gnome-session-logout icon, and it looks very good for me. > Based on this icon and others Yasis icons, I have designed some new > icons for the logout-dialog. > They aren't very polished, but they looks good for me. > > I make a "fake" screenshot with the new icons. > http://developer.berlios.de/dbimage.php?id=2680 > > I would like to hear your opinions. Very nice indeed. It improves the logout dialogue through smaller icons and perhaps the dialogue could also be made smaller as a result. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: When to display the battery icon
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 00:41 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > Hello all, > > As some of you know, the currently policy seems to be that we are not > displaying the battery icon when both of the following are true: > 1. The laptop is plugged in > 2. The battery is fully charged > > If this is in fact policy and not a bug, I disagree with it, for the > following reasons: Corey, Ping Kinnison about this: last time I asked him, he said that he was planning to change the policy to 'always', which would resolve this problem. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Logout dialog : 2 sections
On Fri, 2006-03-10 at 16:36 +0100, Manu Cornet wrote: > http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/logout.png > * How do you like the approach ? :) Very nice indeed. I'd recommend slightly smaller icons. > * Should I write "Pause session" instead of "Pause", and "Exit session" > instead of "Exit" ? Yes, I think so. Nice work! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: New theme
On Fri, 2006-03-10 at 05:59 -0500, Joseph Method wrote: > It depends on where the orange is. The orange for highlighting in yelp > is too much, the orange for highlighting in firefox is kind of cool. > The orange in the widgets and regular menus is cool, especially in the > slider. Yes, the orange as a selected colour totally breaks yelp, and makes it look ridiculous. This is because: a) Yelp uses the selected colour from the theme in the title of its table of contents; and b) since my patch yesterday, it also uses the selected colour (selected.dark1) for links and headings. The selected colour should be a dark colour (i.e. Brown): all themes do this! cc:ing to Desktop list. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: G-p-m hding while on AC
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 11:00 -0700, Lakin Wecker wrote: > On 3/9/06, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 21:47 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > I just noticed that g-p-m now hides while on AC. I think > this is > > horrible default, for several reasons. > > I just asked in -devel and it appear that this isn't actually > the > default at all, so we can bring this thread to a dignified > close, > > I think there was a misunderstanding between this thread, you and > Kinnison on irc. The icon has always been shown while the battery is > not 100% charged, which is what kinnison confirmed. On the other > hand, this thread is about showing the battery status all the time > regardless of AC state or battery charge level. That's right. Sorry - my bad. However Daniel did indicate also that he may be setting this to 'always', which certainly would close this bug. I hope this does this! Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: G-p-m hding while on AC
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 21:47 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > Hey all, > > I just noticed that g-p-m now hides while on AC. I think this is > horrible default, for several reasons. I just asked in -devel and it appear that this isn't actually the default at all, so we can bring this thread to a dignified close, I think: [17:33:54] < mdke_> does anyone know what the decision is on whether the battery icon from g-p-m is shown by default while charging? the consensus on the desktop list seems to be fairly resoundingly in favour of "yes". [17:41:28] < Kinnison> mdke_: the default icon policy is 'charge' which means it will [17:42:00] < mdke_> hmm [17:42:15] < mdke_> so the thread on the desktop list is based kinda on a false premise, i.e. that it isn't [17:42:22] < Kinnison> well yes [17:42:28] < Kinnison> the default policy has been 'charge' for some time now Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: G-p-m hding while on AC
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 21:47 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > I just noticed that g-p-m now hides while on AC. I think this is > horrible default, for several reasons. On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 16:58 -0700, Lakin Wecker wrote: > Users are accustomed to many types of portable devices which run on > batteries: cell-phones, PDAs, music players, and laptops. Knowing the > state of the battery is an important part of using the device. Most > will expect to see some sort of battery charge information on the > screen, and the lack of an indicator will not be interpreted as a > fully charged laptop. It is yet another thing that they will have to > learn about their Gnome desktop. > > I agree with Corey. Me too, please put the power icon back when AC is plugged in. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Firefox and the `you have chosen to open ...' dialogue
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 14:11 +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Ian Jackson writes ("Re: Firefox and the `you have chosen to open ...'
> dialogue"):
> > I would really like to have an idea of how many people find the new
> > behaviour better. This is supposed to be a useability improvement.
> > If in practice it confuses and annoys people then we should revert it;
> > if the benefits are marginal then reverting it because of these
> > security fears seems reasonable.
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied. No-one has come out strongly or
> clearly in favour of the current behaviour, so I am going to revert
> it. I'll leave the code in there so that we can change our mind
> easily (and so you can set it yourself in about:config) but I will
> change the default.
>
> I agree that making the dialogue be a gnome program selector would be
> a good idea but I don't plan to try to implement that myself and it's
> rather late in the release cycle anyway.
cc:ing to the desktop list.
Does anyone reading know how to do this? Is it a difficult task to make
the firefox open dialogue use the gnome program selector, if firefox is
running in gnome? If not, does anyone have the time/will to implement it
in time for dapper (i.e. very fast indeed)?
Matt
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Re: no more irc chat client
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 11:09 -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 06:17:58PM +0100, Armand CORBEAUX wrote: > > I think you probably ask you "why does he say a sich thing?". But the answer > > is simple: most of the people doesn't know IRC (even as protocol). And it's > > not by including it by default that it will increase its popularity. > > > > As example, usenet is mostly unknown by users, even it exists since a lot of > > years. > > Both Usenet and IRC have traditionally been arcane systems used almost > exclusively by computer hobbyists. The only rationale for including an IRC > client in the default Ubuntu desktop is to provide access to support > resources, though arguably the forums are a more convenient interface for > users who do not already know IRC. We also already include IRC > functionality in gaim, and though not as rich in functionality as xchat, it > does work, and some users even prefer it over xchat for IRC. This is a good decision, in my opinion. However it would be very nice if irc:// links would open automatically in gaim from firefox/epiphany/yelp. That way, people can be pointed straight to the chatroom from the documentation/start page/website. Yes, forums/launchpad tickets are a better interface for support, but they are not "live", so some people might prefer that. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Improvements to new System->Help menu
I've filed the following bug with a patch attached with my suggestion to improve the (already awesome) new System->Help menu. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/33874 Hope this helps. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Showing mounted volumes on the desktop
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 21:45 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > Hey all, > > I can't find anywhere whether this is merely a bug or a policy > decision. Either way, it should default to on. Their are two reasons > in my mind: You're quite right, it should default to on. I _think_ this is a bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/28991 But I may be wrong, someone may have turned this off on purpose. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: More colorful help browser
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 17:53 +, Matthew East wrote: > Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > Sebastien Bacher ...> writes: > > > > Thanks for your work on that. The idea seems to be good and the > > > screenshots are nice. Do you already have some patch to play with? > > I've put the patch up with the screenshots: http://mdke.org/images/yelp/ Did this patch work? Is there anything else I can do? Has anyone got any other ideas about how we can improve on the yelp look? Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: More colorful help browser
Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Sebastien Bacher ...> writes: > > Thanks for your work on that. The idea seems to be good and the > > screenshots are nice. Do you already have some patch to play with? I've put the patch up with the screenshots: http://mdke.org/images/yelp/ HTH, Thanks! Matt -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Help Icon in gnome-panel
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 19:10 +0100, Manu Cornet wrote: > > Hi ! > > > I'm not for abusing notify bubble, but maybe we could have one on the > > first startup to indicate that the applications menu is where to go to > > run some programs and that the system menu is the place to go to get the > > help stuff? > > > > An another option would be a first startup note or something like that > > I had suggested this a while ago : > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/JPEG/Startup_notification_transp.png > > (we could add something about help). That looks rather good. It would be nice to have something saying "Welcome to your Ubuntu system. Help can be found under the System Menu" or something more nicely worded. I'm not convinced any of the other menus require explanation, e.g. it's pretty obvious that applications can be found under the Applications menu. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: More colorful help browser
Sebastien Bacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Le lundi 13 février 2006 à 13:19 +0000, Matthew East a écrit : > > > Please have a look and give feedback as to whether this sort of > > customisation might be desirable for Yelp in Dapper. If so, I'll try and > > make a patch, and we can think about some other potential > > customisations. > > hi, > > Thanks for your work on that. The idea seems to be good and the > screenshots are nice. Do you already have some patch to play with? Thanks for this: I'll make a patch as soon as I can and send it along. Matt -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the Help Icon in gnome-panel
Taking this off the devel list. On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 13:49 +0100, Petr Tomeš wrote: > On 2/14/06, Dana Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 2/14/06, Matthew Paul Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I suggest adding a separate "Help" menu, to contain the Help and About > > > items. Then it would be very obvious where the help was, and you > > > wouldn't need to come up with a new icon for it. I too think that 4 menus would be too many. Since speaking with Seb in irc, he has made an extremely valid point: that the icons on the top panel are mainly aimed at programs which get a lot of repeated use. The logical conclusion of that is that Help may not warrant such an icon. The problem raised in the original post is with ensuring that users will know where to find the help. There are a number of other options we have available, I think. * Include a reference to the help in the installation flash animation (hopefully this will be done) * Include a note about where to find the help in the relevant section of the browser start page * Have some kind of first-run tooltip/bubble which tells the user where help is, and then does not appear again. I'm in favour of all of these. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
More colorful help browser
Hi list, Recently I've chatted to Jeff (cc:) about the possibilities for customising the Yelp style a bit. The yelp colors are currently rather boring, and I feel it would be nice to give them a bit more color. Two ways of starting to do this would be to make section headers and links take their colors from the theme. Thus, those using the human theme will get Ubuntu color links/headers. I've played around with a couple of really basic modifications to the yelp colorscheme, along those lines. The result is quite nice I think, and is theme-compatible. http://mdke.org/images/yelp Please have a look and give feedback as to whether this sort of customisation might be desirable for Yelp in Dapper. If so, I'll try and make a patch, and we can think about some other potential customisations. Sorry about the funny symbols in the screenshots, this is a bug in Dapper, not my customisations. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Restoring the Help Icon in gnome-panel
Hi all, Recently, many users have been calling for a program which starts up at first login and introduces users to the basics about using and configuring Ubuntu. I'm convinced that the onboard documentation will do this job sufficiently well for dapper, the Desktop Guide in particular has had lots of work and will be accessible enough for users to see quickly where to find the right answers. In my personal opinion Dapper is the first release where I can say that the onboard documentation will do a good job. However, one of the big problems for us as the documentation team is that the onboard help is not used nearly enough, this leads to people spending more time looking for help, and hitting the forums/irc/mailing lists with questions which are answered in the documentation. I'd like to suggest an easy way to resolve this problem: restore the help icon on the gnome-panel. This will make the onboard documentation easily accessible for new users. I would earnestly urge you to reconsider the decision that was taken to remove this icon! Users need to know the documentation is there, and those that don't can remove the icon with two clicks. thanks, Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Bad "open with" dialogue in firefox (was "what is the reason for not making epiphany the default browser?")
cc: Desktop list On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 06:36 +0100, John Nilsson wrote: > On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 22:22 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > The other feature of Epiphany I miss in Firefox is the "Open with..." > dialog. It should be the same application chooser as with nautilus not > the file chooser as it is with Firefox. Yes, this is a shocking usability problem. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox/+bug/24789 This spec[1] seems to suggest that it is a goal for dapper, but I don't think there has been any improvement made yet. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultApplicationsFirefox Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Restoring the xsane menu item
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 21:36 -0800, Corey Burger wrote: > Hello all, > > As some of you know, we removed the Xsane menu item as part of > MenusRevisited[0]. I was ambivalent at the time and have thus been > doing a great deal of thinking about it. Thus I think we should > restore it. > > Part of the goal of MenusRevisited was to simplify menus. This has > been achieved, by and large. Currently the graphics menu has 2 items > in it. Thus readding another back in is not a huge deal. > > Yes, a user can access scanning through the GIMP and by just pressing > the scan button, but having watched my father scan, I think I can say > that it is likely that most users launch the program and then scan > from there. I agree, this definitely needs to be restored. No one is going to think of accessing GIMP to scan stuff. The graphics menu is rather bare anyway :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Yelp customisations
On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 09:26 +, Matthew East wrote: > Dear all, > > I spoke to Jeff some time ago about making some customisations to the > yelp stylesheets to add some Ubuntu theming. Nothing came of this for a > while so I thought I'd mail this list to start things going. > > Attached is a default.css file (which goes into the data/ folder in the > yelp source). The only modifications I've made are to include some > Ubuntu color and underlining in the headings. But hopefully we can make > some more customisations later. Disregard this attachment ;) I've since consulted upstream to figure out how to do this properly, so I'll work on a proper patch for yelp soon. The affected files are /usr/share/yelp/xsl/*. However, please still let me know if any modifications to yelp stylesheets should not be done via the yelp package, but rather via an ubuntu-artwork/docs package. Another question is what modifications should be made. I had thought of simply modifying the css for and tags as from the Ubuntu website. Any objections, other ideas, please mail on this thread! Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Yelp customisations
Dear all,
I spoke to Jeff some time ago about making some customisations to the
yelp stylesheets to add some Ubuntu theming. Nothing came of this for a
while so I thought I'd mail this list to start things going.
Attached is a default.css file (which goes into the data/ folder in the
yelp source). The only modifications I've made are to include some
Ubuntu color and underlining in the headings. But hopefully we can make
some more customisations later.
Yelp isn't working right now so I haven't checked it, but it should be
quite non-controversial :)
I'm not sure however whether these customisations should be going into
Ubuntu branded packages (ubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-docs or something). Let
me know how we can do this.
Matt
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h1
{
margin: 1.5em 0 0 0;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 1.6em;
color: #6d4c07; /* ubuntu dark brown */
line-height: 1.2em;
}
h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
{
font-weight: normal;
color: #6d4c07; /* ubuntu dark brown */
line-height: 1.2em;
}
h2
{
font-size: 1.4em;
border-bottom: 2px solid #6d4c07;
}
h3 {
font-size: 1.3em;
}
h4 {
font-size: 1.2em;
}
h5, h6 {font-size: 1em;}
body {
padding-left: 8px;
padding-right: 12px;
}
p, div { margin: 0em; }
p + p, p + div, div + p, div + div { margin-top: 0.8em; }
dl { margin: 0px; }
ol { margin: 0px; }
ul { margin: 0px; }
ol li { padding-left: 12px; }
ul li { padding-left: 12px; }
li[class="menu-folder"] + li[class="menu-file"] { margin-top: 0.8em; }
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Ubuntu Documentation News - January 2006
Hi all, Taking inspiration from the Ubuntu Desktop News, the Documentation team has also produced a newsletter in which we outline all the new hotness in the Ubuntu Documentation World. This is the first newsletter from the DocTeam, and we will produce new ones every now and again. All newsletters will be available online at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/News In this issue: Ubuntu 5.10 Update Documents for Ubuntu 6.04 Kubuntu Documentation Wiki Documentation How to Contribute Useful Links == Ubuntu 5.10 Update == We've recently prepared an update for the ubuntu-docs package in Breezy. This features: * An improved default start page for Firefox and Epiphany browsers * Updated translations of the Gnome documentation The update should hit your Breezy desktop soon! == Documents for Ubuntu 6.04 == We're releasing two main documents in Ubuntu 6.04: * the Desktop Starter Guide (preview is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/) and * the Server Starter Guide (preview is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/). They are both in early stages of development. Testing, feedback, questions and above all '''contributions''' are always welcome to the ubuntu-doc mailing list. === Dapper Flight 2 Release Notes === Matt Galvin has recently produced a great guide to what's new in Dapper. For more information, see the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight2. == Kubuntu Documentation == Kubuntu 6.04 will have three documents in the works: * the Desktop Guide; * the Quick Guide; and * the Release Notes. Work is currently being done by Jonathan Jesse and Jerome Gotangco but we invite Kubuntu users to dive in and join the team! With the help of JonathanRiddell, we will be able to include documents that are tagged as WIP (Work in Progress) in the coming milestone releases of Kubuntu. == Wiki Documentation == === New Hotness === The documentation on the wiki is beginning to take shape. As always, the starting page for wiki documentation is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation, which contains a (nearly complete) index of documents. Here are some highlights: * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaApplications - a guided tour through many of the cool music & video applications in Ubuntu. * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicCommands - confused by the command line? Lessen your confusion here. * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP - need a webserver? This page will get you started! * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MailServer - a series of guides to set up a mail server. * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StrongPasswords - a guide to creating secure passwords in Ubuntu. === Wiki License === The licence policy for the Ubuntu wiki has been under discussion recently. The licence for the wiki has been unclear until now, and the need was felt to establish a proper formal licence to clarify for users and authors alike the terms on which material can be copied. The final decision was that the wiki material will be in the Public Domain, i.e. totally free to be used, modified and copied. The details of the policy change, the reasons, and the means by which it will be implemented can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing. === Cleanup of old pages === Corey Burger recently had a rush of blood and has done a massive cleanup operation on old and outdated wiki pages. Many useless pages have been deleted and many outdated developer specifications have been moved. === Work to be Done === Much work still remains to be done: lots of the documentation on the wiki is disorganised and needs a lot of love. We need help, so please join the Documentation Team mailing list, and visit the wiki team pages https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTeam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo for some inspiration! Some pages which need expansion are: * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wine - learn how to run your Windows programs easier * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Games - having fun with Ubuntu has never been easier * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiseatX - the new X.org 7.0/6.9 now contains multiseat * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScanningHowTo - your scanners and Ubuntu, a short guide == How to Contribute == The Documentation Team still has a lot of work to do, and needs your help! Documentation is a great way to contribute to the Ubuntu community, even if you don't know how to write programs or build packages! As always, you can find daily builds of the documentation (and details of how to contribute) on http://doc.ubuntu.com. Another great starting place to learn quickly how to get involved is our wiki pages, especially https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamGettingStarted. You can also contact us on irc (#ubuntu-doc) or the mailing list (http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc). You can also contribute to the Kubuntu documentation by checking the same website and the same mailing list. == Useful Links == * http://help.ubuntu.com -
Re: xml or html for Ubuntu Guides
On Sun, 2005-12-04 at 10:55 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: > Le samedi 03 décembre 2005 à 12:42 +0000, Matthew East a écrit : > > On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 08:57 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Le vendredi 02 décembre 2005 à 17:14 +, Matthew East a écrit : > > > > * Greater loading speed (this is the killer for me) - Yelp renders in > > > > html, and therefore converts xml to html using its own stylesheets when > > > > you load a document. The time it takes to load pages from xml in yelp is > > > > probably enough to put the user off the help entirely! If we ship html, > > > > the xml->html conversion is undergone in the build process, which means > > > > that the document opens instantly. > > > > > > Is the speed loading difference important? > > > > I think it is: slow loading static help pages are a turn off for (at > > least some) users, those users will go on irc or the forum. If > > everything else is equal and the alternatives are (a) fast, or (b) slow, > > then I would obviously go with (a) :) > > I agree that slow loading is not good. But can we have some figures? Is > it that slow? :-) Yes: just try it. Both formats are in the dapper package. > > > > * minor advantages - same format as kubuntu docs, we can put the same > > > > format on help.ubuntu.com as we put in the distribution. > > > > > > I think we can put the xml files on the website. Or we can simply > > > convert them in html, it's not that hard :-) > > > > Most web browsers that I know don't read xml. We currently convert them > > to html [1], [2], and [3], that was my point. > > Err... A search for "mozilla xml" gives me > See http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2000/03/29/tutorial/ Well, try opening an xml document in your web browser. The ones I have installed (epiphany, firefox) don't read it out of the box. > > [3] http://help.ubuntu.com > > > > > The best option to me would be to go with xml, but if it's too > > > difficult, switch to html 2 months before the release, eg. > > > > You didn't bring any reasons in favour of shipping in xml? Why do you > > prefer that? > > Well, xml is more generic. If we keep xml, we can do more things with > the installed files. If we go with html, you'll be sure that you will > just display it the way it is and you won't do anything else with it. What do you envisage doing with the xml in the installed system? I should clarify: we write the documents in xml, so we have the flexibility to do anything with those files in the build process. I really can't see a single thing that we'd want to do with the xml in the _installed system_. Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: making the panel launcher opening the preferred apps by default?
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 00:08 -0800, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > > > > a) that means some icons will change function, fairly unexpectedly > > > because other icons *won't* change function > > > > But there are only THREE of em > > ... right up until the point that a user puts their own launchers on the > panel. Which will appear the same, but work differently. Yeah, as Seb said, I think that is ok, because the user adds an application. The default icons are (or should be?) task-specific launchers, rather than application-specific. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: xml or html for Ubuntu Guides
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 12:42 +, Matthew East wrote: > On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 08:57 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote: > [1] An example is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/aboutubuntu/C/index.html Sorry, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html So much for typing urls by memory. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: xml or html for Ubuntu Guides
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 08:57 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le vendredi 02 décembre 2005 à 17:14 +, Matthew East a écrit :
> > Hi all (sending to -doc and -desktop),
{snip}
> > For this reason, the possibility of shipping the docs in html is now
> > again a valid one, and I thought I would therefore reopen debate on the
> > subject. I envisage that the debate will be less disorganised than the
> > last one, because (a) we have the benefit of experience from the Breezy
> > debacle, and (b) I'm mailing the desktop people so that we get a broad
> > range of technical opinion.
> >
> > My personal opinion is in favour of html. Here are what I see the
> > advantages and disadvantages of html:
> >
> > Advantages:
> >
> > * We can customise the stylesheets for the documents more easily
> > (building on the css already in place) by simply working on the
> > ubuntu-book.css shipped with the package. This can be done without
> > affecting the non-ubuntu documentation.
>
> Is it hard to change the stylesheet for xml?
It is probably not that hard to change yelp's stylesheet: however I
imagine (I haven't looked into this) that it is non-trivial to get yelp
to use different stylesheets for different documents. If that is right,
then we've have the two problems:
* We might have to ensure that our stylesheets (and css) work for all
documents, rather than just Ubuntu-specific ones.
* We might have to use the same stylesheet for the ubuntu-specific
documents. This would be a problem because we're currently using at
least two types of stylesheet, one for articles [1] and one for books
[2].
[1] An example is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/aboutubuntu/C/index.html
[2] An example is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
> > * Greater loading speed (this is the killer for me) - Yelp renders in
> > html, and therefore converts xml to html using its own stylesheets when
> > you load a document. The time it takes to load pages from xml in yelp is
> > probably enough to put the user off the help entirely! If we ship html,
> > the xml->html conversion is undergone in the build process, which means
> > that the document opens instantly.
>
> Is the speed loading difference important?
I think it is: slow loading static help pages are a turn off for (at
least some) users, those users will go on irc or the forum. If
everything else is equal and the alternatives are (a) fast, or (b) slow,
then I would obviously go with (a) :)
> > * minor advantages - same format as kubuntu docs, we can put the same
> > format on help.ubuntu.com as we put in the distribution.
>
> I think we can put the xml files on the website. Or we can simply
> convert them in html, it's not that hard :-)
Most web browsers that I know don't read xml. We currently convert them
to html [1], [2], and [3], that was my point.
[3] http://help.ubuntu.com
> The best option to me would be to go with xml, but if it's too
> difficult, switch to html 2 months before the release, eg.
You didn't bring any reasons in favour of shipping in xml? Why do you
prefer that?
Matt
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Re: making the panel launcher opening the preferred apps by default?
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 15:09 -0800, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > > > I'm not sure there is a lot of difference in the purpose: I started off > > thinking that there was a difference between having a "firefox" icon on > > the panel and a "browser" icon on the panel, but I decided that actually, > > the user won't make a distinction: once (s)he has decided to change > > browser, the fact that the developers see the icon on the panel as > > "firefox" rather than "browser" is not gonna justify the fact that (s)he > > has to waste (admittedly not much) time removed and readding the correct > > launcher. > > OK: > > a) that means some icons will change function, fairly unexpectedly because > other icons *won't* change function But there are only THREE of em: one is a browser, one is email, and one is help. Obviously the user is not gonna change their help browser, but the other two are in the list of preferred applications. I don't think they would change function unexpectedly at all: they would change function (in the sense of opening a different program) precisely because the user told GNOME to change the default browser/mail client. > b) we don't have the infrastructure to do this properly for each function > (trust me, this has been a massive topic of discussion around ISV issues at > the OSDL DTL event) Ok, on this one I trust you of course. > c) we don't have the infrastructure to make the changed state obvious in the > user interface, contributing to (a) See response to (a). > Making the effect and purpose obvious is tightly related in this case, and > we can't do it properly. In the end it'll be you guys' call, and you are best placed to make it, so no arguments there. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: making the panel launcher opening the preferred apps by default?
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 14:34 -0800, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > > > Our recommendation is only the default position: once the user decides to > > change their default app, I think we should help them to do so as easily > > as possible. But yeah, happy to file this upstream if it is appropriate. > > And that's important for desktop and application integration, but I think > you're stretching it's utility by suggesting it's appropriate for the icons > on the panel. There is a certain amount of selection and policy involved in > our choice of those icons, and that is more important than the false benefit > of adaptability to configuration. *If* we decided that the purpose of those > icons was to be an abstract launching interface to the applications that > serve those objectives (like the items at the top left of the Windows XP > start menu), then we'd do it - but all the other panel launchers work in a > different way, and we don't have a way to communicate that difference in > purpose at the moment. I'm not sure there is a lot of difference in the purpose: I started off thinking that there was a difference between having a "firefox" icon on the panel and a "browser" icon on the panel, but I decided that actually, the user won't make a distinction: once (s)he has decided to change browser, the fact that the developers see the icon on the panel as "firefox" rather than "browser" is not gonna justify the fact that (s)he has to waste (admittedly not much) time removed and readding the correct launcher. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: making the panel launcher opening the preferred apps by default?
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 13:17 -0800, Jeff Waugh wrote: > > > > We got a feature request about making the launcher using the preferred app > > setting: > > > Do you think that's a good idea. Do we want to keep it consistent between > > upgrades/new installations? Any opinion on how to do these changes ? > > No, I don't think it's a good idea until it has upstream / freedesktop.org > buy-in. Plus, it's confusing to have launchers doing different things. We > recommend firefox for the browser, that's what the launcher should run. At > least for now. :-) Our recommendation is only the default position: once the user decides to change their default app, I think we should help them to do so as easily as possible. But yeah, happy to file this upstream if it is appropriate. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: making the panel launcher opening the preferred apps by default?
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 21:29 +0100, Sebastien Bacher wrote: > Hi, > > We got a feature request about making the launcher using the preferred > app setting: > https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20295 Well I filed the bug so obviously I'm in favour. Test it like this: I change my def. app from firefox to epiphany. Everything changes: when i click on links anywhere in gnome, epiphany pops up. But when I click on the panel, I get firefox. The whole point of having the preferred applications preference tool is so that the user doesn't have to do the work to change from one browser to another, or one email client to another. It kinda contradicts that to make the user remove and add the icon on the panel. What the preference tool does already is really useful, but it would be more professional if it went the whole hog, and changed the panel launcher too. (IMHO) M -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
xml or html for Ubuntu Guides
Hi all (sending to -doc and -desktop), Some may remember that early in the Breezy release process the documentation team spent a couple of meetings and a lot of mailing list traffic about the classic question of what format to ship our docs in. The options are: xml, or html. Those who run dapper can see that for the purposes of answering this question, we've uploaded both formats in the latest package. The question affects ubuntu-docs. The decision for Breezy was to ship them in html, but this decision was rapidly reversed shortly prior to release when Seb and Jeff W pointed out that this broke the About Ubuntu panel entry (there was no way of ensuring that the localised copy of the document got opened from the panel). For dapper, the About Ubuntu panel entry looks like it is going to be opening a program [1] written especially for the purpose (like the About Gnome dialogue), rather than yelp. So it looks like the problem encountered in Breezy will not arise. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutUbuntu For this reason, the possibility of shipping the docs in html is now again a valid one, and I thought I would therefore reopen debate on the subject. I envisage that the debate will be less disorganised than the last one, because (a) we have the benefit of experience from the Breezy debacle, and (b) I'm mailing the desktop people so that we get a broad range of technical opinion. My personal opinion is in favour of html. Here are what I see the advantages and disadvantages of html: Advantages: * We can customise the stylesheets for the documents more easily (building on the css already in place) by simply working on the ubuntu-book.css shipped with the package. This can be done without affecting the non-ubuntu documentation. * Greater loading speed (this is the killer for me) - Yelp renders in html, and therefore converts xml to html using its own stylesheets when you load a document. The time it takes to load pages from xml in yelp is probably enough to put the user off the help entirely! If we ship html, the xml->html conversion is undergone in the build process, which means that the document opens instantly. * minor advantages - same format as kubuntu docs, we can put the same format on help.ubuntu.com as we put in the distribution. Disadvantages: * There is no side panel in the html. I don't think this is a particularly serious disadv. because the html we build has quite good navigation included. * We need to ensure that translation will work: I am fairly confident that it will - shipping localised omf files in (e.g.) /usr/share/omf/desktopguide-html/ will work I believe. * We may have to ship the xhtml transitional dtd because scrollkeeper doesn't seem to have it already. So all in all, the advantages are huge, and the disadvantages are not really disadvantages, or where they are, they are outweighed :) Ok, let discussion commence (please reply to both lists if you can). If anyone spots any advantages or disadvantages I've missed, please tell us, and let's have people's views as to what format to ship! thanks, Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
