Re: Beautiful stupidity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Vishnoo wrote on 09/03/10 06:04: On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 22:54 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ... And then the Human icon theme changes that arrived late in Karmic made things slightly worse again. It was different people doing each of these things. There is no point in trying to shunt the blame to the icon theme , when the icon changes were infact directed by the design team ;) There is also a comment[by design team] on a bug report mentioning the new-mail icon is good as-is and it is meant to be un-intrusive . Where? Several icons were changed since the design team wanted minor improvements , why wasnt this mentioned? ... Because none of us who were involved in the design of the messaging menu saw it in time. When we did, we said to each other, what? it's not supposed to look like that. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu?action=recallrev=28highlight=displayed+as+a+green+dot+in+the+menu+title#API Anyhow, five months later this discussion isn't really useful except to make sure we'll avoid that kind of deterioration in future. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuXyjwACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecobcwCeNlYeHLppteoFakPONy6Paf+O 500AoJvX6YjZDyYtYiEq6jdNKFJLT1VX =uhKM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Beautiful stupidity?
On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 10:30 +0100, Kenneth Wimer wrote: On Tuesday 09 March 2010 07:04:53 am Vishnoo wrote: Now that it was fixed[in Humanity] for Lucid , the design team _again_ has a new icon far worse than what was earlier. Again not an Ubuntu decision? Now where is the decision being done? Are we late for Lucid too? ;) Let's get this fixed for Lucid atleast , without pointing fingers :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+bug/532364 As you can easily see in the bug, we are on top of this and it will be fixed asap (that is why I set it to Highly important and assigned myself to the bug). Yes , I'm aware you are gonna fix it soonish. :) I was just responding to the comment that the earlier icon was not under control of the design team, which is misleading to others. :( -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Beautiful stupidity?
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 22:54 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote on 06/03/10 16:14: ... In my opinion, this is the worst design change since the decision to hide incoming IMs and phone calls from the user, and instead just subtly changing the color of a small icon. ... I know this is a tangent, but: That wasn't an Ubuntu decision, it was a series of unfortunate individual decisions. The Ubuntu position was, and is, that a notification area item is not enough to advertise an incoming IM or phone call, and that clients should open chat windows in the background (and phone call windows in the foreground). The Empathy developers disagreed, and continued relying on the notification area item. Moving Empathy into the messaging menu just made things slightly worse. And then the Human icon theme changes that arrived late in Karmic made things slightly worse again. It was different people doing each of these things. There is no point in trying to shunt the blame to the icon theme , when the icon changes were infact directed by the design team ;) There is also a comment[by design team] on a bug report mentioning the new-mail icon is good as-is and it is meant to be un-intrusive . Several icons were changed since the design team wanted minor improvements , why wasnt this mentioned? Now that it was fixed[in Humanity] for Lucid , the design team _again_ has a new icon far worse than what was earlier. Again not an Ubuntu decision? Now where is the decision being done? Are we late for Lucid too? ;) Let's get this fixed for Lucid atleast , without pointing fingers :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+bug/532364 -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Beautiful stupidity?
I've been reading up on the new design philosophy and it sounded nice until I saw some actual screenshots on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand. Are we really going to move the window buttons (minimize, maximize and close) to the left hand side of the window and then rearrange them? The themes look really nice, but this is going to hurt. Most of us have a strong muscle memory that tells us where those buttons are. New users will feel even more uncomfortable, as this indicates further that their old knowledge from Windows isn't applicable anymore. Most of us are also right handed, which makes the right hand side of the screen a good placement for such a common action. People have suggested for a long time, that Super-L should open the applications menu. I've been against that, since it didn't make sense to begin with. It's stupid to copy Windows' mistakes just in order to be similar, but in my opinion, it's even more stupid to change something good just in order to be different. In my opinion, this is the worst design change since the decision to hide incoming IMs and phone calls from the user, and instead just subtly changing the color of a small icon. One of the things I've always touted when speaking of Ubuntu, is that is looks ok, but that it's really user friendly, and efficient to work with. You get much done by few clicks. Now, when someone calls me, I have to first examine where the sound comes from, then look for the envelope to see if it's light grey or dark grey. Then, if it's dark grey, I have to click it to see if it's just because I've received an email or if someone has sent me an IM while I was away, or if someone, in fact, is calling me right now. If so, then I can open that dialog and then, finally, I can accept the call. And now I'm supposed to retrain my muscles to hit buttons on the other side of the screen, and remember that minimize is now maximize and vice versa? I'm sorry if I come across as overly critical, but this really upsets me. It looks nice, but it's a pain to work with. Please prioritize functionality before aesthetics. My two cents, Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Beautiful stupidity?
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Are we really going to move the window buttons (minimize, maximize and close) to the left hand side of the window and then rearrange them? It appears those screenshots were outdated. Quoting Ars Technica [1]: When we posted screenshots from the design documents yesterday, the placement of the window titlebar buttons in the Metacity theme proved to be one of the most controversial issues. Many of our readers expressed that they disliked the button arrangement and positioning along the left-hand side of the titlebar. The critics will be pleased to learn that the titlebar buttons are located in their usual place on the right-hand side in the official theme packages. Gabriel [1] http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/03/hands-on-a-close-look-at-ubuntus-new-non-brown-theme.ars -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Beautiful stupidity?
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Gabriel Burt gabriel.b...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Are we really going to move the window buttons (minimize, maximize and close) to the left hand side of the window and then rearrange them? It appears those screenshots were outdated. Quoting Ars Technica [1]: When we posted screenshots from the design documents yesterday, the placement of the window titlebar buttons in the Metacity theme proved to be one of the most controversial issues. Many of our readers expressed that they disliked the button arrangement and positioning along the left-hand side of the titlebar. The critics will be pleased to learn that the titlebar buttons are located in their usual place on the right-hand side in the official theme packages. Gabriel [1] http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/03/hands-on-a-close-look-at-ubuntus-new-non-brown-theme.ars I guess I should have read the rest of the article: Although the designers decided to keep the buttons on the right, the order was changed. and Update: In a new package updated that was rolled out this morning, the titlebar buttons were moved to the left-hand side of the window. You can now resume complaining. Gabriel -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
