Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-26 Thread Bryan Quigley 
Hi,

Well if that's already decided, then there isn't much point for a full
session.

At that point the only remaining questions are
Do we stop pre-installing Flash from the proprietary checkbox in installer?
Do we start click-to-play before Mozilla?

I'm 99% sure that freshplayerplugin isn't a supportable option, we
would need Mozilla's endorsement of it and I don't see why they would
give it.

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Chris Coulson  wrote:
> On 19/10/15 18:31, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being
>> taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS.  If we
>> knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1
>> year), should the LTS include them at all?
>>
>> 1- Minimal option:
>> Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow
>> Firefox's lead for alerting users.
>> Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer
>>
>> 2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla:
>> Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla
>>
>> 3- Aggressive option:
>> Disable NPAPI for 16.04.
>>
>> Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above.
>>
>> I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their
>> environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number
>> of months later.  If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for
>> trouble,   I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of
>> the question.
>>
>>> most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of 
>>> things like Amazon Video
>> I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them.  Many
>> sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway.
>>
>> I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is
>> very different than February 2017.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Bryan
>>
>> *First two years, until the next LTS is released.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson
>>  wrote:
>>> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
 Hi all,

 Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
 but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
 have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
 happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
 possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
 talk about again as well.

 We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
 didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
 change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.

 If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained

 Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
 [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
 getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
 These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
 support Flash 11.2 for longer.

 I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
 us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
 here first.

 Thanks!
 Bryan

 [1] 
 https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
 [2] 
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
 [4] 
 http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
 [5] 
 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly

>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
>>> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
>>> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
>>> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
>>> for this?
>>>
>>> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
>>> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
>>> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
>>> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
>>> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
>>> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
>>> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
>>> releases for as long as it's supported.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
>>> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
>>> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
>>> maintainer, the c

Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-26 Thread Ramon Marquez 

freshplayerplugin require google chrome installed... an alternative could 
beoffer a package with built-in flash PPAPI on freshflashplayer...



El 19/10/15 a las 08:42, Marco Trevisan escribió:

Il 12/10/2015 21:39, Bryan Quigley ha scritto:

Hi all,

Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
talk about again as well.

Although Flash is not my beloved platform at all, I understand that
there's still lot of people using Ubuntu depending on that.

So, one strategy to allow Firefox to load a more updated NPAPI flash
plugin (that has not a planned EOL), would be to use freshplayerplugin¹.
I'm using that for long time, and it's working really well (indeed much
better than the stock one), while it should not depend on Hal.


[1] https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin



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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-23 Thread Chris Coulson 
On 19/10/15 18:31, Bryan Quigley wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being
> taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS.  If we
> knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1
> year), should the LTS include them at all?
>
> 1- Minimal option:
> Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow
> Firefox's lead for alerting users.
> Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer
>
> 2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla:
> Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla
>
> 3- Aggressive option:
> Disable NPAPI for 16.04.
>
> Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above.
>
> I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their
> environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number
> of months later.  If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for
> trouble,   I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of
> the question.
>
>> most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of things 
>> like Amazon Video
> I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them.  Many
> sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway.
>
> I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is
> very different than February 2017.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> *First two years, until the next LTS is released.
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson
>  wrote:
>> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
>>> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
>>> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
>>> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
>>> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
>>> talk about again as well.
>>>
>>> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
>>> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
>>> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.
>>>
>>> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
>>> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
>>> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained
>>>
>>> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
>>> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
>>> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
>>> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
>>> support Flash 11.2 for longer.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
>>> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
>>> here first.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
>>> [2] 
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
>>> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
>>> [4] 
>>> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
>>> [5] 
>>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
>> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
>> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
>> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
>> for this?
>>
>> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
>> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
>> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
>> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
>> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
>> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
>> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
>> releases for as long as it's supported.
>>
>> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
>> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
>> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
>> maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for
>> Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden
>> upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think
>> you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because
>> of the HAL dependency) - most sites that use Flash continue to work fine
>> with the exception of things like Amazon Video, which haven't worked out
>> of the box on Ubuntu since we dropped HAL from the default install
>> (IIRC, sometime around 2010). If there really was a big demand for this,
>> we'd have

Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Marcos Alano 
Simple: When Firefox without Flash support comes, add to Firefox
package a conflict statement for Flash package and maybe hal too.

Seems fine to you?

2015-10-19 18:48 GMT-02:00 Ramon Marquez :
> and what will happen when flash was discontinued?
>
> El 19/10/15 a las 16:04, Marcos Alano escribió:
>
> I think this guy [1] can help us and create packages for hal (all hal
> or just the library) so Flash could depend on it.
> I think there is no harm if we keep a package just for Flash DRM. But
> we just need to maintain that until Flash is discontinued.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Ramon Marquez 

and what will happen when flash was discontinued?

El 19/10/15 a las 16:04, Marcos Alano escribió:

I think this guy [1] can help us and create packages for hal (all hal
or just the library) so Flash could depend on it.
I think there is no harm if we keep a package just for Flash DRM. But
we just need to maintain that until Flash is discontinued.






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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Marcos Alano 
I think this guy [1] can help us and create packages for hal (all hal
or just the library) so Flash could depend on it.
I think there is no harm if we keep a package just for Flash DRM. But
we just need to maintain that until Flash is discontinued.


[1] https://launchpad.net/~mjblenner

2015-10-19 15:31 GMT-02:00 Bryan Quigley :
> Hi Chris,
>
> The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being
> taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS.  If we
> knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1
> year), should the LTS include them at all?
>
> 1- Minimal option:
> Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow
> Firefox's lead for alerting users.
> Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer
>
> 2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla:
> Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla
>
> 3- Aggressive option:
> Disable NPAPI for 16.04.
>
> Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above.
>
> I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their
> environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number
> of months later.  If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for
> trouble,   I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of
> the question.
>
>>most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of things 
>>like Amazon Video
> I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them.  Many
> sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway.
>
> I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is
> very different than February 2017.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> *First two years, until the next LTS is released.
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson
>  wrote:
>> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
>>> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
>>> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
>>> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
>>> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
>>> talk about again as well.
>>>
>>> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
>>> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
>>> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.
>>>
>>> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
>>> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
>>> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained
>>>
>>> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
>>> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
>>> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
>>> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
>>> support Flash 11.2 for longer.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
>>> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
>>> here first.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
>>> [2] 
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
>>> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
>>> [4] 
>>> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
>>> [5] 
>>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
>> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
>> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
>> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
>> for this?
>>
>> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
>> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
>> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
>> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
>> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
>> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
>> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
>> releases for as long as it's supported.
>>
>> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
>> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
>> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
>> maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for
>> Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden
>> upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think
>> you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because
>> of the HAL depe

Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Bryan Quigley 
Hi Chris,

The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being
taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS.  If we
knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1
year), should the LTS include them at all?

1- Minimal option:
Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow
Firefox's lead for alerting users.
Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer

2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla:
Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla

3- Aggressive option:
Disable NPAPI for 16.04.

Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above.

I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their
environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number
of months later.  If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for
trouble,   I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of
the question.

>most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of things 
>like Amazon Video
I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them.  Many
sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway.

I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is
very different than February 2017.

Kind regards,
Bryan

*First two years, until the next LTS is released.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson
 wrote:
> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
>> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
>> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
>> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
>> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
>> talk about again as well.
>>
>> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
>> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
>> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.
>>
>> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
>> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
>> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained
>>
>> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
>> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
>> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
>> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
>> support Flash 11.2 for longer.
>>
>> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
>> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
>> here first.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Bryan
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
>> [2] 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
>> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
>> [4] 
>> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
>> [5] 
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
> for this?
>
> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
> releases for as long as it's supported.
>
> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
> maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for
> Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden
> upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think
> you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because
> of the HAL dependency) - most sites that use Flash continue to work fine
> with the exception of things like Amazon Video, which haven't worked out
> of the box on Ubuntu since we dropped HAL from the default install
> (IIRC, sometime around 2010). If there really was a big demand for this,
> we'd have fixed it 5 years ago. I even wrote a wrapper to make it work,
> but there wasn't much interest in it
> (https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+junk/flash-hal-helper).
>
> Rega

Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Chris Coulson 
On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
> talk about again as well.
>
> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.
>
> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained
>
> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
> support Flash 11.2 for longer.
>
> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
> here first.
>
> Thanks!
> Bryan
>
> [1] 
> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
> [2] 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
> [4] 
> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
> [5] 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly
>

Hi,

I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it
basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there
isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort
of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile
for this?

AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla
will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins
sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI
plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be
planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some
non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we
will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu
releases for as long as it's supported.

I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that
they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer
technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox
maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for
Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden
upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think
you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because
of the HAL dependency) - most sites that use Flash continue to work fine
with the exception of things like Amazon Video, which haven't worked out
of the box on Ubuntu since we dropped HAL from the default install
(IIRC, sometime around 2010). If there really was a big demand for this,
we'd have fixed it 5 years ago. I even wrote a wrapper to make it work,
but there wasn't much interest in it
(https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+junk/flash-hal-helper).

Regards
- Chris

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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Bryan Quigley 
On Firefox - CNN Live and Google Play Movies works when I install hal
from the PPA mentioned by omgubuntu.  Chromium still doesn't work for
me, maybe they are expecting some other Chrome/ium specific thing?
Google Chrome works for Google play movies, but still not for CNN
Live.

I found two upstream bugs for hal:
https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=selectBug&CFGRIDKEY=3103209
(closed as not as bug)
https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=selectBug&CFGRIDKEY=3117732
(still open high priority, from 2012)

I still don't believe freshplayerplugin is anything we could ever ship.

I'll go ahead setup the UDS session.

Thanks all!
Bryan

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Chad Miller  wrote:
> The HAL "dependencies", of which we speak, is an optional DRM test that most
> people don't see in regular use. The disk reported by HAL is tested to avoid
> playing some stuff into some obviously-named recording device. Every Flash
> Player from Adobe would use it, not just the NPAPI one. If you don't
> implement it, you don't get DRM-wrapped resources.
>
> - chad
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Marco Trevisan
>  wrote:
>>
>> Il 12/10/2015 21:39, Bryan Quigley ha scritto:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
>> > but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
>> > have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
>> > happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
>> > possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
>> > talk about again as well.
>>
>> Although Flash is not my beloved platform at all, I understand that
>> there's still lot of people using Ubuntu depending on that.
>>
>> So, one strategy to allow Firefox to load a more updated NPAPI flash
>> plugin (that has not a planned EOL), would be to use freshplayerplugin¹.
>> I'm using that for long time, and it's working really well (indeed much
>> better than the stock one), while it should not depend on Hal.
>>
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-desktop mailing list
>> ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
>
>

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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Ramon Marquez 
But remember that Adobe Flash Player NPAPI ends its life cycle on 2017 
and Mozilla Firefox It has no intention of support Flash Player PPAPI 
which will continue to support by Adobe.


El 19/10/15 a las 08:57, Marco Trevisan escribió:

Il 19/10/2015 15:21, Ramon Marquez ha scritto:

The problem of freshplayerplugin is that require Google Chrome
installed. I too use freshplayerplugin and it work excellent!

Well, not really when using the Canonical partner repository, as we ship
that plugin inside the adobe-flashplugin package.



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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Marco Trevisan 
Il 19/10/2015 15:21, Ramon Marquez ha scritto:
> The problem of freshplayerplugin is that require Google Chrome
> installed. I too use freshplayerplugin and it work excellent!

Well, not really when using the Canonical partner repository, as we ship
that plugin inside the adobe-flashplugin package.

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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Chad Miller 
The HAL "dependencies", of which we speak, is an optional DRM test that
most people don't see in regular use. The disk reported by HAL is tested to
avoid playing some stuff into some obviously-named recording device. Every
Flash Player from Adobe would use it, not just the NPAPI one. If you don't
implement it, you don't get DRM-wrapped resources.

- chad


On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Marco Trevisan <
marco.trevi...@canonical.com> wrote:

> Il 12/10/2015 21:39, Bryan Quigley ha scritto:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
> > but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
> > have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
> > happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
> > possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
> > talk about again as well.
>
> Although Flash is not my beloved platform at all, I understand that
> there's still lot of people using Ubuntu depending on that.
>
> So, one strategy to allow Firefox to load a more updated NPAPI flash
> plugin (that has not a planned EOL), would be to use freshplayerplugin¹.
> I'm using that for long time, and it's working really well (indeed much
> better than the stock one), while it should not depend on Hal.
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin
>
> --
> ubuntu-desktop mailing list
> ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
>
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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Ramon Marquez 
The problem of freshplayerplugin is that require Google Chrome 
installed. I too use freshplayerplugin and it work excellent!


Greeting from Venezuela

El 19/10/15 a las 08:42, Marco Trevisan escribió:

Il 12/10/2015 21:39, Bryan Quigley ha scritto:

Hi all,

Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
talk about again as well.

Although Flash is not my beloved platform at all, I understand that
there's still lot of people using Ubuntu depending on that.

So, one strategy to allow Firefox to load a more updated NPAPI flash
plugin (that has not a planned EOL), would be to use freshplayerplugin¹.
I'm using that for long time, and it's working really well (indeed much
better than the stock one), while it should not depend on Hal.


[1] https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin



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Re: Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-19 Thread Marco Trevisan 
Il 12/10/2015 21:39, Bryan Quigley ha scritto:
> Hi all,
> 
> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
> but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
> talk about again as well.

Although Flash is not my beloved platform at all, I understand that
there's still lot of people using Ubuntu depending on that.

So, one strategy to allow Firefox to load a more updated NPAPI flash
plugin (that has not a planned EOL), would be to use freshplayerplugin¹.
I'm using that for long time, and it's working really well (indeed much
better than the stock one), while it should not depend on Hal.


[1] https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin

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Firefox/NPAPI/Flash discussion for UDS

2015-10-12 Thread Bryan Quigley 
Hi all,

Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything
but Flash at the end of 2016[1].  That got me thinking that we might
have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what
happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS.   Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also
possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to
talk about again as well.

We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4].  We
didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly
change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed.

If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox:
8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working
10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained

Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal
[5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work.  Also
getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox.
These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to
support Flash 11.2 for longer.

I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join
us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit
here first.

Thanks!
Bryan

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
[2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc
[4] 
http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc
[5] 
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly

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