Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
We'll be working on the front end this cycle, so you can expect to see a site with charts etc representing the data to be operational within 6 months. I'll publish updates via the desktop team newsletter on insights.ubuntu.com. Cheers, Will On 30 April 2018 at 14:22, Juerg Haefliger wrote: > > The results of this data would be made public. E.g. People would be > > able to see that X% of Ubuntu users are based in .de vs Y% in .za. Z% > > of our users run Dell hardware, and so on. > > Now that it's live, where is the data? > > ...Juerg > > -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
On 15 February 2018 at 10:16, Ernst Sjöstrand wrote: > Hi, > > "Send diagnostics information to help improve Ubuntu" sounds like > you're continuously reporting things, but your proposal looks more > like a single "installation ping" or something. > I guess the apport and popcon reports would be continuous though? > > Yes, installation data would be one shot, but popcon and apport would be recurring. We need to work on the exact wording to make this clear. > If you do this you should really make sure everything has http proxy > (set in user session only?) support, so you can pick up some extra > corporate users. > Sending it from the user session fits well with the privacy settings. > Noted, thanks for the advice. > Sounds reasonable otherwise. Are trackpads enought trouble to collect data > on? > > Interesting point, we will look in to this some more and update the list with our findings. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
On 19 February 2018 at 13:55, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Will Cooke wrote on 14/02/18 15:22: > >… > > We want to be able to focus our engineering efforts on the things that > > matter most to our users, and in order to do that we need to get some > > more data about sort of setups our users have and which software they > > are running on it. > > > > We would like to add a checkbox to the installer, exact wording TBD, > > but along the lines of “Send diagnostics information to help improve > > Ubuntu”. This would be checked by default. > > I’ve just drafted a design for this. <https://goo.gl/yJ86Qa> It’s > basically a subset of the System Settings screen. > Thanks, we will take a look at that, but on first scan it looks good. > > The result of having that box checked would be: > > > > * Information from the installation would be sent over HTTPS to a > > service run by Canonical’s IS team. This would be saved to disk and > > sent on first boot once there is a network connection. > > Information from the installation would be fascinating, for improvement > of the installer in particular. However, I don’t think it would give you > an accurate idea about the “sort of setups our users have”, for > improvement of Ubuntu in general. It could lead you to think that, for > example: > > * Internet connection is less common than it really is. (Because of > things like proxies, as mentioned by Ernst Sjöstrand, or > not-yet-installed wi-fi drivers. And because if people still can’t > get online later, they might uninstall Ubuntu and you’ll never get > a report.) > > * Wired Internet connections are more common than they really are. > (Because they’re being used temporarily during installation, while > wi-fi isn’t working.) > > * Typical screen resolution is lower than it really is. (Because > people don’t tweak the resolution until after installation. And > because if they fail to do so, they might uninstall Ubuntu, > resulting in a report for a system that soon stops existing.) > > * Bluetooth devices are much less common than they really are. > > I think it would be much more interesting to measure these things month > by month. > > Yes, general trending is what we're aiming for here. Thanks for the input on those specifics. > > The file > > containing this data would be available for the user to inspect. > > > > That data would include: > >* Ubuntu Flavour > >* Ubuntu Version > >* Network connectivity or not > > If I understand “on first boot once there is a network connection”, that > would exclude devices that were offline until the second startup or later. > > We were thinking along the lines of something which would try to send the data at login a number of times, let's say 10, and then give up. So if the machine never comes on line, then the data never gets sent. If the machine travels between various locations before arriving at a working internet connection, then it should eventually be able to send it. I think that would cover the vast majority of cases. > >* CPU family > >* RAM > >* Disk(s) size > >* Screen(s) resolution > >* GPU vendor and model > >* OEM Manufacturer > >* Location (based on the location selection made by the user at > > install). No IP information would be gathered > >* Installation duration (time taken) > >* Auto login enabled or not > >* Disk layout selected > >* Third party software selected or not > >* Download updates during install or not > >* LivePatch enabled or not > > > > * Popcon would be installed. This will allow us to spot trends in > > package usage and help us to focus on the packages which are of most > > value to our users. > > This effectively singles out .deb package installation as the only thing > that should be reported periodically, with everything else reported > one-off. Is that just for ease of implementation, or is there a reason > not to report the other things periodically too? > Mainly ease of implementation. > > For example, if we could see how often people change their reported > location, we’d have info on how accessible the time zone UI should be. > And if it turns out that only a tiny fraction of Livepatch users turn it > on during install, vs. afterwards, that would influence future installer > design. > Wouldn't that involve us being able to track a person/machine to know when it had been changed? Or would something in the location picker send a signal?
Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
Hi Cassidy, On 14 February 2018 at 16:00, Cassidy James Blaede wrote: > This makes sense from Ubuntu's perspective, and it will certainly be > interesting to see the resulting data. I have a few concerns, but nothing > insurmountable: > > How will this affect downstreams? Downstreams/non-official-flavors may > want to disable or remove any diagnostics. Keep them in mind when designing > the implementation. > Noted. > > Users are not always installers. Will additional users be prompted of the > diagnostics upon first login? Are these diagnostics intended to be > system-wide or user-wide? If Ubuntu uses GNOME Initial Setup for new users, > that would be a great place for this. > > I'm generally against asking more questions on log in if it can be avoided. Apport and popcon would be system wide. The installer data would naturally be based the system. We aren't going to be using Initial Setup in 18.04, but I will bear that in mind for the near future, it does make sense to include it in Initial Setup if/when we use it. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
On 15 February 2018 at 07:10, Juerg Haefliger wrote: > On 02/14/2018 04:22 PM, Will Cooke wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > We want to be able to focus our engineering efforts on the things that > > matter most to our users, and in order to do that we need to get some > > more data about sort of setups our users have and which software they > > are running on it. > > > > We would like to add a checkbox to the installer, exact wording TBD, but > > along the lines of “Send diagnostics information to help improve > > Ubuntu”. This would be checked by default. > > Please make this an opt-in rather than an opt-out. This just smells like > a trend towards a Windows/Android installation where you have to unset > gazillions of check boxes to prevent the machine from posting your life > to the vendor. We shouldn't go there. I can understand why you would feel that way, but I honestly believe it's not the same. We want to be as transparent as we can be, and making data available, and indeed the source code to show what's been gathered, and that we posted the proposed list of data here I hope would assure you that this isn't the same as other platforms. If we make it opt-in I think we will lose out on a lot of valuable data. We're working with design to make sure that the message is clear and understable to everyone so people can make an informed decision. > * Information from the installation would be sent over HTTPS to a > > service run by Canonical’s IS team. This would be saved to disk and > > sent on first boot once there is a network connection. > > So sent only once or after every reboot? > Only once. > > * Popcon would be installed. This will allow us to spot trends in > > package usage and help us to focus on the packages which are of most > > value to our users. > > Are you saying that popcon is automatically installed and enabled? I > haven't performed an Ubuntu install lately but isn't there an install > question asking whether to enable popcon or not (with the default being > no). Or is that Debian? If the box is left checked, then popcon would get installed. In the normal desktop installer there isn't an option for that any more. There used to be in the past, and there was an option to turn it on in Software Sources, but that went away ages ago. 10.04 I think. https://imgur.com/a/w47T6 > > > * Apport would be configured to automatically send anonymous crash > > reports without user interruption. > > I hope this will be clearly articulated during install time. > > We're working with design to get the wording just right. > > > The results of this data would be made public. > > Same here. People need to know that their data is publicly (yet > anonymously) visible. > > > > E.g. People would be > > able to see that X% of Ubuntu users are based in .de vs Y% in .za. Z% > > of our users run Dell hardware, and so on. > > The Ubuntu privacy policy would be updated to reflect this change. > > > > Any user can simply opt out by unchecking the box, which triggers one > > simple POST stating, “diagnostics=false”. > > Why does this require a POST (over the network)? > > This will allow us to gauge participation rates and to better quantify the data we do get. > > > There will be a corresponding > > checkbox in the Privacy panel of GNOME Settings to toggle the state of > this. > > > > And to reiterate, the service which stores this data would *never* store > > IP addresses. > > > > We value your feedback and comments! > > I don't believe that sending data by default is 'a thing that matters > most to our users'. Quite the opposite in fact. MS was/is getting a lot > of heat for their data collection and we shouldn't go down that very > same route by making data gathering the default. > > Noted. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: More diagnostics data from desktop
On 14 February 2018 at 18:37, Alistair Buxton wrote: > > > * Information from the installation would be sent over HTTPS to a service > > run by Canonical’s IS team. This would be saved to disk and sent on > first > > boot once there is a network connection. The file containing this data > > would be available for the user to inspect. > > So you ask the user during install. Then the data is sent on first > boot. At what point can the user inspect the data, given that some of > it can't be collected until after installation is finished? It seems > like the first opportunity will be after it has been sent, unless you > ask the user a second time. So why not just ask them on first boot, > when you have already gathered all the data? That way user can inspect > the data there and then before deciding how to answer. > Yes, I think the first opportunity would be after it has been sent. I'm generally against asking more questions on login though, I think it would be clunky. We're considering ways to make the tool a stand-alone snap which could be much more interactive and could be installed and run independently of the "Send diagnostics" checkbox. > >* Screen(s) resolution > > This won't be correct after first boot on my system. I have to reboot > at least one more time to install working graphics drivers. > Good point, thanks. We're more interested in general trends than the specifics, so this might skew the data a bit, I think it will work out in the end. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
More diagnostics data from desktop
Dear all, We want to be able to focus our engineering efforts on the things that matter most to our users, and in order to do that we need to get some more data about sort of setups our users have and which software they are running on it. We would like to add a checkbox to the installer, exact wording TBD, but along the lines of “Send diagnostics information to help improve Ubuntu”. This would be checked by default. The result of having that box checked would be: * Information from the installation would be sent over HTTPS to a service run by Canonical’s IS team. This would be saved to disk and sent on first boot once there is a network connection. The file containing this data would be available for the user to inspect. That data would include: * Ubuntu Flavour * Ubuntu Version * Network connectivity or not * CPU family * RAM * Disk(s) size * Screen(s) resolution * GPU vendor and model * OEM Manufacturer * Location (based on the location selection made by the user at install). No IP information would be gathered * Installation duration (time taken) * Auto login enabled or not * Disk layout selected * Third party software selected or not * Download updates during install or not * LivePatch enabled or not * Popcon would be installed. This will allow us to spot trends in package usage and help us to focus on the packages which are of most value to our users. * Apport would be configured to automatically send anonymous crash reports without user interruption. The results of this data would be made public. E.g. People would be able to see that X% of Ubuntu users are based in .de vs Y% in .za. Z% of our users run Dell hardware, and so on. The Ubuntu privacy policy would be updated to reflect this change. Any user can simply opt out by unchecking the box, which triggers one simple POST stating, “diagnostics=false”. There will be a corresponding checkbox in the Privacy panel of GNOME Settings to toggle the state of this. And to reiterate, the service which stores this data would *never* store IP addresses. We value your feedback and comments! Cheers, Will On behalf of the Ubuntu Desktop Team -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
