Re: Communication Improvements/frustrations
"We do also intend to appoint a dedicated person focused on community processes rather than Canonical processes; while they won't be expected to *do* this work, they would be a natural coordinator and able to provide more insight to all the groups that share the archive for their different goals." This is both great news and a good step in the right direction. It would at least get everyone marching towards the same goal. Dustin. On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 at 01:00, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > It has been an intense time for multiple groups, thank you both for > being willing to pull this frayed thread back into the tapestry. > > The many flavours of Ubuntu are an important part of our story, and > occasionally it helps to remind ourselves of that. > > Free software is great because it enables people to pursue diverse > interests and passions without having to get a central endorsement. > Anybody can make a distro that explores the ideas they are interested > in, without seeking Linus' blessing, or any company support. However, > they then have the full burden of 'doing it right', with all the > infrastructure and security and update work that entails. As a result, > many of the more specialist distros suffer on base quality or security. > > Our flavours are a way of enabling people to express and share their > interests in a different take on Linux, but benefit from all the shared > effort that goes into the archive, at the (hopefully small) cost of > coordinating in the archive and around releases. > > Perhaps it would be good to have a dashboard of things like queue length > and wait time, together with a single 'status' page where current > constraints could be expressed, if we don't already have that. > > We do also intend to appoint a dedicated person focused on community > processes rather than Canonical processes; while they won't be expected > to *do* this work, they would be a natural coordinator and able to > provide more insight to all the groups that share the archive for their > different goals. > > Mark > > > -- > Ubuntu-release mailing list > ubuntu-rele...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release > -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Communication Improvements/frustrations
It has been an intense time for multiple groups, thank you both for being willing to pull this frayed thread back into the tapestry. The many flavours of Ubuntu are an important part of our story, and occasionally it helps to remind ourselves of that. Free software is great because it enables people to pursue diverse interests and passions without having to get a central endorsement. Anybody can make a distro that explores the ideas they are interested in, without seeking Linus' blessing, or any company support. However, they then have the full burden of 'doing it right', with all the infrastructure and security and update work that entails. As a result, many of the more specialist distros suffer on base quality or security. Our flavours are a way of enabling people to express and share their interests in a different take on Linux, but benefit from all the shared effort that goes into the archive, at the (hopefully small) cost of coordinating in the archive and around releases. Perhaps it would be good to have a dashboard of things like queue length and wait time, together with a single 'status' page where current constraints could be expressed, if we don't already have that. We do also intend to appoint a dedicated person focused on community processes rather than Canonical processes; while they won't be expected to *do* this work, they would be a natural coordinator and able to provide more insight to all the groups that share the archive for their different goals. Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Communication Improvements/frustrations
Hi Erich, On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 08:19:34AM -0700, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > Hello everyone, > I would like to profusely apologize for my previous email. I was > calling-out some nonexistent bad faith which was wrong on my part. > Steve, if you're reading this, I am so, so sorry. I know you have a lot > on your plate and have done a lot for Ubuntu in general. I also may be > unaware of items going on in your personal life. For what it's worth, > I'm moving my family 300 miles eastward at the end of this month, right > around Feature Freeze. I want to say for the record that I do not think one's personal life should ever be considered a valid justification for violating the Ubuntu code of conduct, as was suggested had happened. Empathy for one's personal circumstances is a part of community, but such circumstances should never be seen as excusing mistreatment of others in contravention of our community standards. I'm sorry that any of my comments to you came across as belittling. My intention has been to communicate as succinctly as possible the information needed for understanding why the various teams' handling works as it does, not to belittle. I think you should also be aware that, where the question of favoritism between flavors is concerned, UbuntuStudio has a much higher volume of Ubuntu-specific NEW packages than any other community flavors do today. Most other flavors are either largely steady state, or take almost all of their packages via Debian sync. So I would say it's not so much that UbuntuStudio is being discriminated against, as that the Ubuntu NEW queue in general has a fairly low "SLA" and this has more of an impact on UbuntuStudio than on other flavors. > That said, I guess my frustrations are because the packages I have > submitted for review are running out of time. With freezes > fast-approaching, my fear is that I'll need to fix some packaging errors > and won't have enough time to do so, and that I'll be back in the same > situation with corrected packages but missed deadlines. I'm also working > on a fork of ubuntu-mate-welcome (called ubuntustudio-welcome, no > surprise there) which I *hope* to have submitted prior to feature > freeze. Feature Freeze Exceptions are a painful process, and I've had > very little luck in the past submitting them. We do not generally regard new packages as requiring feature freeze exceptions; and there's at least an informal policy that packages that were uploaded before feature freeze will get reviewed prior to release. If the Archive team is not delivering on this, then please do be noisy about it. > So, I hope you all understand where I'm coming from. I'm sorry for the > way I expressed my frustrations in my previous email. My bad faith > accusations and personal attacks were completely unacceptable. So, I > hope you can all find it in your hearts to forgive me for my actions. Apology accepted :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer https://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Communication Improvements/frustrations
Hello everyone, I would like to profusely apologize for my previous email. I was calling-out some nonexistent bad faith which was wrong on my part. Steve, if you're reading this, I am so, so sorry. I know you have a lot on your plate and have done a lot for Ubuntu in general. I also may be unaware of items going on in your personal life. For what it's worth, I'm moving my family 300 miles eastward at the end of this month, right around Feature Freeze. That said, I guess my frustrations are because the packages I have submitted for review are running out of time. With freezes fast-approaching, my fear is that I'll need to fix some packaging errors and won't have enough time to do so, and that I'll be back in the same situation with corrected packages but missed deadlines. I'm also working on a fork of ubuntu-mate-welcome (called ubuntustudio-welcome, no surprise there) which I *hope* to have submitted prior to feature freeze. Feature Freeze Exceptions are a painful process, and I've had very little luck in the past submitting them. So, I hope you all understand where I'm coming from. I'm sorry for the way I expressed my frustrations in my previous email. My bad faith accusations and personal attacks were completely unacceptable. So, I hope you can all find it in your hearts to forgive me for my actions. Sincerely, Erich pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Communication Improvements/frustrations
Hello all, I'm writing this as a frustrated flavor lead. There is some unacceptable behavior from the release team and the archive admins toward myself and perhaps, more generally, the Ubuntu Studio flavor. There are a total of 8 packages awaiting review for over a month now. Supposedly this is a "queue" and that I *shouldnt't* bug #ubuntu-release, but it seems that other packages are favored more than the multimedia/audio production packages. Honestly, I have no idea why these packages are sitting there awaiting review. I shouldn't have to ping ubuntu-archive in #ubuntu-release to get this done. When I have, I've been told it's a "queue". These are the packages awaiting review: * redkite * bchoppr * bsequencer * dragonfly-reverb * bshapr * bslizr * new-session-manager * mcpdisp These have been awaiting review since July 7th and haven't seen even a cursory glance, save dragonfly-reverb with got deferred by one archive admin to be looked-at by another archive admin. Additionally, I'm getting told items like this telling me information that I should somehow magically already know. Backstory: zita-ajbridge had an approved SRU for a 100% CPU usage issue and has been stuck in focal-proposed for over a week, the Monday-Thursday stuff notwithstanding. This occurred in #ubuntu-release as a response to my inquiry: > Eickmeyer: zita-ajbridge> you know this week was focal .1 > release, right? So promotions from -proposed to -updates were frozen > in order to not derail the ISO mastering. If this was something that > you felt should have gone into the .1 media, you would've needed to > communicate it directly to the release team in time for inclusion. > But at this point it will need to wait until Monday I did not know there were freezes just prior to point releases (nor can I find the documentation though I'm open to it being pointed-out), and I feel like the way this information was presented to me was rude and possibly outside of the Ubuntu Code of Conduct. My intention was not to get it into the .1 release, but to get it /*into the updates to begin with*/. Additionally, the .1 release is the excuse I was given for why the packages awaiting review for groovy hadn't been reviewed yet. Is Ubuntu Studio a burden and unwelcome? Are you upset that it didn't die the way it was going to two years ago before I got to it? Honestly, I'm getting tired of the unprofessional behavior from people and processes that should just work. If you don't want Ubuntu Studio around, let me know. But I'm getting real tired of sending these emails with my frustrations. If it's too much work, then you need to seek-out and identify additional archive admins and release team members. I realize this requires a large amounts of expertise, but failing to identify these people is a leadership failure at its core (my degree is in leadership, so this is something I can authoritatively speak on). Additionally, I expect the same amount of courtesy and respect as anyone else. Instead, I'm treated as though I'm unintelligent and annoying, especially by Steve Langasek. This behavior needs to stop. I respect Steve's knowledge and expertise, but the treatment I consistently get from him is belittling at best. I'm also sorry to post this publicly, but I feel as though this needs to be talked about in a more public forum since I've attempted to have these discussions privately to no avail. I also feel as though my frustration needs to be adequately expressed. With that, I expect real solutions and responses, not lip service. Thank you for your time. Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader Ubuntu Studio ubuntustudio.org pEpkey.asc Description: application/pgp-keys -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
