Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Timo Jyrinki]

2016-04-21 10:59 GMT+03:00 Timo Jyrinki :
> though, there may be new hurdles hurdles to overcome. I did a quick
> test run yesterday evening but somehow it seemed unbootable ("Failed
> to load ldlinux.c32"), I'll need to look into it during the weekend.

Ehem, I looked at it already now and it seems I had ran out of space
on the partition where I worked on the image...

Other than that, I switched to genisoimage and tested the resulting
modified image successfully by writing it with Disks tool on 14.04 LTS
to USB stick and booting both on a real UEFI + Secure Boot laptop and
testing installation in qemu in Legacy mode. Everything seems
functional and fine.

The only regression is that it seems the Legacy mode now defaults to
English despite "echo fi | sudo tee extract-cd/isolinux/lang". Tips
welcome there... however, the Legacy mode boots to the nice GUI
language selector unlike UEFI mode which requires selecting between
Live and Install modes immediately, so it's not that serious.

-Timo

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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Timo Jyrinki]

2015-12-01 10:06 GMT+02:00 Didier Roche :
> Some loco team used to have respin of the default localized ubuntu image.
> Yours truly used to have handle this quite regularly for the french loco
> team. I know that the italian and finnish locos used to do it as well (not
> sure about the current status for them). However, UEFI support made it
> complicated and so those efforts have been dropped some cycles ago as far as
> I know.

No, it was discussed at UOS [1] and not dropped [2], UEFI works, and I
added UEFI GRUB translations as well [3]. Not sure about 16.04 LTS yet
though, there may be new hurdles hurdles to overcome. I did a quick
test run yesterday evening but somehow it seemed unbootable ("Failed
to load ldlinux.c32"), I'll need to look into it during the weekend.
Tips welcome if you know what I encountered, and also feel free to
experiment with the "script" (copy-paste commands manually in reality)
from the bzr using any xenial image as a base. I'd welcome fellow
tinkerers.

[1] 
http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22380/development-1411-iso-l10n-uefi/
[2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2014-November/006895.html
[3] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2015-August/007009.html

> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It means
> that opening "language selector" won't request any additional package to
> install[1].

Thanks for adding these, my script was installing the selected English
packages manually for 14.04.x releases, since otherwise Ubuntu would
complain about them even with full Finnish support installed.

> full support for those 8 languages. This is of course a non negligeable
> image size increase. However, getting full language support for at least 8
> languages (and no additional download on install for those) seems like a
> huge increase in quality to me.

I agree!

-Timo

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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Dimitri John Ledkov]

On 9 December 2015 at 11:29, David Planella  wrote:
> Thanks Didier!
>
> Just to understand it, what impact would the change have on languages that
> are not on the image and are traditionally installed online? In particular,
>
> - Would ubiquity still be shown in those languages even if the language
> packs are not in the image?

ubiquity always includes all the translations there are for it, and
none of its translations come from language packs.

> - Would these additional languages still be easily installable once there is
> an Internet connection (during or after the installation)
>

usually, ubiquity tries to download and install language packs during
installation if there is internet connection. Otherwise incomplete
language support dialog will be shown upon login offering to complete
download & installation of the language packs.

All of the above has always been the case (or has been the case for a
very long time time).

Regards,

Dimitri.

> Cheers,
> David.
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Didier Roche  wrote:
>>
>> Le 05/12/2015 18:48, Dmitry Shachnev a écrit :
>> > Hi all,
>>
>> Hey,
>> >
>> > 2015-12-01 11:06 GMT+03:00 Didier Roche :
>> >> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It
>> >> means
>> >> that opening "language selector" won't request any additional package
>> >> to
>> >> install[1]. If you are proceeding an online installation, additional
>> >> packages won't be downloaded to complete your language installation. If
>> >> you
>> >> have done an offline one, you won't have the infamous after first boot
>> >> "Language support is not complete" dialog. Note that for now, we have
>> >> no
>> >> complete language support on the live! For instance, in English, we
>> >> have the
>> >> following missing packages that language-support will require to
>> >> install (or
>> >> that ubiquity will download it for you if you are connected to the
>> >> Internet):
>> >> hyphen-en-us, mythes-en-us, mythes-en-au, hunspell-en-ca,
>> >> myspell-en-au,
>> >> myspell-en-gb, myspell-en-za, libreoffice-help-en-gb,
>> >> libreoffice-l10n-en-za, firefox-locale-en, thunderbird-locale-en,
>> >> thunderbird-locale-en-gb, thunderbird-locale-en-us.
>> >>
>> >> 2. Based on popcon, number of native speaker and total number of
>> >> speaker per
>> >> language, it seems that the following language selection makes sense
>> >> for our
>> >> user base (more info on the language selection on
>> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1520278):
>> >> en, es, zh (simplified), pt, de, fr, it, ru
>> > In general I like this idea (especially when Russian is in the list of
>> > languages :)).
>> my pleasure :p
>> >
>> > Do we really need to include Chinese (simplified), provided that we
>> > have a separate spin (Ubuntu Kylin) for Chinese users anyway? Or are
>> > there use cases when one would prefer normal Ubuntu over Ubuntu Kylin?
>>
>> I had the same remark at first and didn't include it in this
>> "refactoring". However:
>> - it was already partially on the iso
>> - seems like there is a demand for using traditional Ubuntu rather than
>> the specific Kylin respin
>>
>> So it seems it's not that much of a change (apart from adding missing
>> remaining packages for that language) and still worth it.
>> Cheers,
>> Didier
>>
>> --
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>
>
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Dimitri.

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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[David Planella]

Thanks Didier!

Just to understand it, what impact would the change have on languages that
are not on the image and are traditionally installed online? In particular,

- Would ubiquity still be shown in those languages even if the language
packs are not in the image?
- Would these additional languages still be easily installable once there
is an Internet connection (during or after the installation)

Cheers,
David.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Didier Roche  wrote:

> Le 05/12/2015 18:48, Dmitry Shachnev a écrit :
> > Hi all,
>
> Hey,
> >
> > 2015-12-01 11:06 GMT+03:00 Didier Roche :
> >> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It
> means
> >> that opening "language selector" won't request any additional package to
> >> install[1]. If you are proceeding an online installation, additional
> >> packages won't be downloaded to complete your language installation. If
> you
> >> have done an offline one, you won't have the infamous after first boot
> >> "Language support is not complete" dialog. Note that for now, we have no
> >> complete language support on the live! For instance, in English, we
> have the
> >> following missing packages that language-support will require to
> install (or
> >> that ubiquity will download it for you if you are connected to the
> >> Internet):
> >> hyphen-en-us, mythes-en-us, mythes-en-au, hunspell-en-ca, myspell-en-au,
> >> myspell-en-gb, myspell-en-za, libreoffice-help-en-gb,
> >> libreoffice-l10n-en-za, firefox-locale-en, thunderbird-locale-en,
> >> thunderbird-locale-en-gb, thunderbird-locale-en-us.
> >>
> >> 2. Based on popcon, number of native speaker and total number of
> speaker per
> >> language, it seems that the following language selection makes sense
> for our
> >> user base (more info on the language selection on
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1520278):
> >> en, es, zh (simplified), pt, de, fr, it, ru
> > In general I like this idea (especially when Russian is in the list of
> > languages :)).
> my pleasure :p
> >
> > Do we really need to include Chinese (simplified), provided that we
> > have a separate spin (Ubuntu Kylin) for Chinese users anyway? Or are
> > there use cases when one would prefer normal Ubuntu over Ubuntu Kylin?
>
> I had the same remark at first and didn't include it in this
> "refactoring". However:
> - it was already partially on the iso
> - seems like there is a demand for using traditional Ubuntu rather than
> the specific Kylin respin
>
> So it seems it's not that much of a change (apart from adding missing
> remaining packages for that language) and still worth it.
> Cheers,
> Didier
>
> --
> ubuntu-devel mailing list
> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
>
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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Didier Roche]

Le 05/12/2015 18:48, Dmitry Shachnev a écrit :
> Hi all,

Hey,
>
> 2015-12-01 11:06 GMT+03:00 Didier Roche :
>> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It means
>> that opening "language selector" won't request any additional package to
>> install[1]. If you are proceeding an online installation, additional
>> packages won't be downloaded to complete your language installation. If you
>> have done an offline one, you won't have the infamous after first boot
>> "Language support is not complete" dialog. Note that for now, we have no
>> complete language support on the live! For instance, in English, we have the
>> following missing packages that language-support will require to install (or
>> that ubiquity will download it for you if you are connected to the
>> Internet):
>> hyphen-en-us, mythes-en-us, mythes-en-au, hunspell-en-ca, myspell-en-au,
>> myspell-en-gb, myspell-en-za, libreoffice-help-en-gb,
>> libreoffice-l10n-en-za, firefox-locale-en, thunderbird-locale-en,
>> thunderbird-locale-en-gb, thunderbird-locale-en-us.
>>
>> 2. Based on popcon, number of native speaker and total number of speaker per
>> language, it seems that the following language selection makes sense for our
>> user base (more info on the language selection on
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1520278):
>> en, es, zh (simplified), pt, de, fr, it, ru
> In general I like this idea (especially when Russian is in the list of
> languages :)).
my pleasure :p
>
> Do we really need to include Chinese (simplified), provided that we
> have a separate spin (Ubuntu Kylin) for Chinese users anyway? Or are
> there use cases when one would prefer normal Ubuntu over Ubuntu Kylin?

I had the same remark at first and didn't include it in this
"refactoring". However:
- it was already partially on the iso
- seems like there is a demand for using traditional Ubuntu rather than
the specific Kylin respin

So it seems it's not that much of a change (apart from adding missing
remaining packages for that language) and still worth it.
Cheers,
Didier

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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Dmitry Shachnev]

Hi all,

2015-12-01 11:06 GMT+03:00 Didier Roche :
> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It means
> that opening "language selector" won't request any additional package to
> install[1]. If you are proceeding an online installation, additional
> packages won't be downloaded to complete your language installation. If you
> have done an offline one, you won't have the infamous after first boot
> "Language support is not complete" dialog. Note that for now, we have no
> complete language support on the live! For instance, in English, we have the
> following missing packages that language-support will require to install (or
> that ubiquity will download it for you if you are connected to the
> Internet):
> hyphen-en-us, mythes-en-us, mythes-en-au, hunspell-en-ca, myspell-en-au,
> myspell-en-gb, myspell-en-za, libreoffice-help-en-gb,
> libreoffice-l10n-en-za, firefox-locale-en, thunderbird-locale-en,
> thunderbird-locale-en-gb, thunderbird-locale-en-us.
>
> 2. Based on popcon, number of native speaker and total number of speaker per
> language, it seems that the following language selection makes sense for our
> user base (more info on the language selection on
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1520278):
> en, es, zh (simplified), pt, de, fr, it, ru

In general I like this idea (especially when Russian is in the list of
languages :)).

Do we really need to include Chinese (simplified), provided that we
have a separate spin (Ubuntu Kylin) for Chinese users anyway? Or are
there use cases when one would prefer normal Ubuntu over Ubuntu Kylin?

--
Dmitry Shachnev

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Re: Default languages strategy for Ubuntu desktop CD

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2015-12-01 09:06, Didier Roche wrote:
> 1. Install full language support for those shipped on xenial image. It
> means that opening "language selector" won't request any additional
> package to install[1].

I do support that change. It would address
, which I just marked as a duplicate
of the new bug report you created.

Thanks!

-- 
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj

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