Re: ntp and ntpdate [was: Ubuntu Server seeded package review]
On 12 December 2013 13:17, Robie Basak wrote: > On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: >> Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to >> understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise >> timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing >> the time to drift slowly). > > Right now, ntpdate is seeded in platform.trusty/minimal. I only see ntp > itself in server-ship, so we end up with ntpdate installed without ntp > as standard everywhere. > > I recently filed > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=731352. There, I'm told > that ntpdate on its own (without ntpd) is deprecated. > > So should we be installing ntpdate by default without ntp at all via the > minimal seed? If so, then I'd like to have ntpdate use the DHCP > ntp-server option if it is available, as I've described in that bug, to > fix a MAAS issue on hardware where an RTC isn't available. It looks like > this functionality has been there a while, but has not been enabled in > the case where ntp isn't installed, but ntpdate is, which is the common > case. > Note that in Debian it is at the moment actively discussed to potentially install NTP daemon by default, with current siding to use openntpd http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=731594 -- Regards, Dimitri. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
ntp and ntpdate [was: Ubuntu Server seeded package review]
On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: > Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to > understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise > timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing > the time to drift slowly). Right now, ntpdate is seeded in platform.trusty/minimal. I only see ntp itself in server-ship, so we end up with ntpdate installed without ntp as standard everywhere. I recently filed http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=731352. There, I'm told that ntpdate on its own (without ntpd) is deprecated. So should we be installing ntpdate by default without ntp at all via the minimal seed? If so, then I'd like to have ntpdate use the DHCP ntp-server option if it is available, as I've described in that bug, to fix a MAAS issue on hardware where an RTC isn't available. It looks like this functionality has been there a while, but has not been enabled in the case where ntp isn't installed, but ntpdate is, which is the common case. I thought that it might be worth considering this at the same time as Carlos' case. So: 1) Is using ntpdate without ntp the right approach; and 2) will treating NTPDATE_USE_NTP_CONF as no if ntp.conf doesn't exist (or otherwise changing behaviour to make the if-up.d hook fix the system time) break anything? Robie signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 12:13:22 -0600 Chris J Arges wrote: > On 12/09/2013 11:50 AM, Serge Hallyn wrote: > > Chris Arges (cc:d) has looked into this before in-depth. But I > > don't seem to have the email with his conclusions. Chris, could > > you summarize here what you had found when you looked into our > > previous suggestion to not enable ntp in guests? > > > > Hi, > > Here is the original thread about this topic: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2013-April/006556.html > > Originally we had recommended _not_ to use NTP on VMs, but after > researching this a bit further it seemed clear that NTP should work > perfectly fine. The modification I made is updated here: > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/FAQ#Should_ntp_be_used_for_time_synchronisation.3F > > My statement was pretty vague on purpose. > If you are doing lightweight stuff when you boot the VM the kvmclock > will setup the clocksource just fine and we expect the system time to > not drift too much while the VM is up. > For heavy duty stuff where you have many VMs, they run for a long > time , or never shutdown/reboot the machine, it makes sense to setup > NTP client on the VM using the host machine as the ntp server. I would like to point out that my original email -- and the start of this thread -- was not fixed on having NTP running on VMs in particular, but *servers* generically. So, I guess, we *should*: * be running NTP on bare-metal servers; * be running NTP on VMs, set to sync with the host. Of course, this is a simplification: on a complex environment, a single source for time sync should be selected for *all* bare-metals. Which one, if a stratum 1 or 2 (or even lower) is not a problem -- as long as all the machines are syncing to the same time provider. But, on a default install, using the *.ntp.ubuntu.com providers, we would have this, even if all the bare-metals directly sync to *.ntp.ubuntu.com (but this is would not be ideal). ..C.. -- ab alio expectes alteri quod feceris signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On 12/09/2013 11:50 AM, Serge Hallyn wrote: > Chris Arges (cc:d) has looked into this before in-depth. But I don't > seem to have the email with his conclusions. Chris, could you summarize > here what you had found when you looked into our previous suggestion to > not enable ntp in guests? > Hi, Here is the original thread about this topic: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2013-April/006556.html Originally we had recommended _not_ to use NTP on VMs, but after researching this a bit further it seemed clear that NTP should work perfectly fine. The modification I made is updated here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/FAQ#Should_ntp_be_used_for_time_synchronisation.3F My statement was pretty vague on purpose. If you are doing lightweight stuff when you boot the VM the kvmclock will setup the clocksource just fine and we expect the system time to not drift too much while the VM is up. For heavy duty stuff where you have many VMs, they run for a long time , or never shutdown/reboot the machine, it makes sense to setup NTP client on the VM using the host machine as the ntp server. > Quoting Seth Arnold (seth.arn...@canonical.com): >> On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: >>> Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to >>> understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise >>> timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing >>> the time to drift slowly). >> >> I would like to hear from An Expert if ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, etc., are >> reasonable things to install in virtual machine guest environments. >> >> My personal suspicion is that when a virtual machine host runs ntpd, >> guests should not run ntpd, since two daemons attempting to skew the >> clock sounds like a recipe for highly chaotic behavior. ntpdate would >> be alright since it does not attempt to manage clock skew. ptpd no idea. >> This is why the guest should use the host as the ntp server. Instead of both reaching out to ntp.ubuntu.com for example. >> When the virtual machine host does not run ntpd, I suspect ntpd, ntpdate, >> ptpd, are all fine things to run in the guests. >> >> I'd love to know for certain what the best practices are. It might >> influence the default package installs. >> I posted this earlier on ubuntu-server ML because I wasn't an expert. So I'm open to other suggestions on how to accomplish this. --chris j arges >> Thanks > > > >> -- >> ubuntu-devel mailing list >> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
Chris Arges (cc:d) has looked into this before in-depth. But I don't seem to have the email with his conclusions. Chris, could you summarize here what you had found when you looked into our previous suggestion to not enable ntp in guests? Quoting Seth Arnold (seth.arn...@canonical.com): > On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: > > Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to > > understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise > > timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing > > the time to drift slowly). > > I would like to hear from An Expert if ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, etc., are > reasonable things to install in virtual machine guest environments. > > My personal suspicion is that when a virtual machine host runs ntpd, > guests should not run ntpd, since two daemons attempting to skew the > clock sounds like a recipe for highly chaotic behavior. ntpdate would > be alright since it does not attempt to manage clock skew. ptpd no idea. > > When the virtual machine host does not run ntpd, I suspect ntpd, ntpdate, > ptpd, are all fine things to run in the guests. > > I'd love to know for certain what the best practices are. It might > influence the default package installs. > > Thanks > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Fri, 2013-12-06 at 11:43 -0800, Seth Arnold wrote: > On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: > > Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to > > understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise > > timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing > > the time to drift slowly). > > I would like to hear from An Expert if ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, etc., are > reasonable things to install in virtual machine guest environments. > > My personal suspicion is that when a virtual machine host runs ntpd, > guests should not run ntpd, since two daemons attempting to skew the > clock sounds like a recipe for highly chaotic behavior. ntpdate would > be alright since it does not attempt to manage clock skew. ptpd no idea. > > When the virtual machine host does not run ntpd, I suspect ntpd, ntpdate, > ptpd, are all fine things to run in the guests. > > I'd love to know for certain what the best practices are. It might > influence the default package installs. > > Thanks My personal experience with a VM server running 12.04 and multiple VMs with various Linux and Windows distros is that while the server is running ntpd, the guests don't appear to get updated correctly from the host. Some of the systems that I have taken the time to point ntpd to an internal server (we're behind a corporate firewall) are ok, the others tend to get skewed after a bit. No idea why. -- -- Tobin Davis Yes, we will be going to OSI, Mars, and Pluto, but not necessarily in that order. -- George Michaelson -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
Hi On 8 Dec 2013 17:03, "Seth Arnold" wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: > > Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to > > understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise > > timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing > > the time to drift slowly). > > I would like to hear from An Expert if ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, etc., are > reasonable things to install in virtual machine guest environments. > > My personal suspicion is that when a virtual machine host runs ntpd, > guests should not run ntpd, since two daemons attempting to skew the > clock sounds like a recipe for highly chaotic behavior. ntpdate would > be alright since it does not attempt to manage clock skew. ptpd no idea. > > When the virtual machine host does not run ntpd, I suspect ntpd, ntpdate, > ptpd, are all fine things to run in the guests. > > I'd love to know for certain what the best practices are. It might > influence the default package installs. > > Thanks > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > I have seen a few cases where VMs had clock skew due drift. Imho, It is advisable to leave this in based off the support requests I have seen in past few years. -- ritz -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 05:15:41PM -0600, C de-Avillez wrote: > Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to > understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise > timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing > the time to drift slowly). I would like to hear from An Expert if ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, etc., are reasonable things to install in virtual machine guest environments. My personal suspicion is that when a virtual machine host runs ntpd, guests should not run ntpd, since two daemons attempting to skew the clock sounds like a recipe for highly chaotic behavior. ntpdate would be alright since it does not attempt to manage clock skew. ptpd no idea. When the virtual machine host does not run ntpd, I suspect ntpd, ntpdate, ptpd, are all fine things to run in the guests. I'd love to know for certain what the best practices are. It might influence the default package installs. Thanks signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:33:26 + James Page wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi Folks > > As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are > proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are > currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). Although I am probably hammering a rather cold iron, I still fail to understand why ntp is not installed by default. I would expect precise timekeeping to be something important on a server (instead of allowing the time to drift slowly). Cheers, ..C.. -- ab alio expectes alteri quod feceris signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 10:56:59AM -0500, Scott Moser wrote: > What do you mean 'd-i-based' images ? Er. Anything that uses d-i to install. > I don't really even have a big beef with aptitude, other than I think its > silly that we have two 'apt' programs installed in the images, and I > suspect that the vast number of developers use 'apt', not 'aptitude'. In > my head that means aptitude is more likely to be broken, and at best "the > same". While I'm not aptitude's biggest fan, the reason tasksel uses it is that nothing else can plausibly support its "Manual package selection" mode. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013, Colin Watson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 04:33:26PM +, James Page wrote: > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/cloud-image > > > > Description: Default cloud-image install > > > > tasksel (drops aptitude etc.) > [...] > > aptitude > > I'd recommend keeping these on any d-i-based images, because otherwise > d-i is just going to install them dynamically and it'll slow everything > down. What do you mean 'd-i-based' images ? I don't personally have anything against tasksel. I think its probably very rarely used from inside a cloud image, but thats fine, its small. I don't really even have a big beef with aptitude, other than I think its silly that we have two 'apt' programs installed in the images, and I suspect that the vast number of developers use 'apt', not 'aptitude'. In my head that means aptitude is more likely to be broken, and at best "the same". The thing that even made anyone notice tasksel was thats it is what pulls in aptitude, and aptitude pulls in apt-xapian-index, and apt-xapian-index can be generally annoying as seen in bug 1227425. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Robie Basak wrote: > On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 04:33:26PM +, James Page wrote: > > Hi Folks > > Description: Default server install > > > > [...] > > wireless-tools > > wpasupplicant > > For bootstrapping reasons, it would be nice to keep these on the ISO > even if not in the default install. Would there be any real cost to > doing this? I presume they're in main due to desktop needs anyway? > Seems right to just have it on the CD and not installed by default. And yes, it is also in main via desktop-common. Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre Freenode: cyphermox, Jabber: mathieu...@gmail.com 4096R/EE018C93 1967 8F7D 03A1 8F38 732E FF82 C126 33E1 EE01 8C93 -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 03.12.2013 18:33, James Page kirjoitti: > Hi Folks > > As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are > proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are > currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for > now). > > Here's the initial review of seeds, and some proposed moves and > drops we are considering: > > Description: Server ISO image > > likewise-open (largely unmaintained in distro - > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LikewiseOpen) please drop it, not necessary to have something like this on the image, and sssd replaces it in multiple ways and will be in main soon.. - -- t -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKf5JMACgkQCf/ckHZoKjd7CgCdH6McUePYzPnqtWtqwtKfZY4v UmcAniOOjoP8GhVp5Dfzyyhe2baKeYU3 =LErF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 04:33:26PM +, James Page wrote: > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/cloud-image > > Description: Default cloud-image install > > tasksel (drops aptitude etc.) [...] > aptitude I'd recommend keeping these on any d-i-based images, because otherwise d-i is just going to install them dynamically and it'll slow everything down. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Dec 03, 2013, at 04:33 PM, James Page wrote: > >>As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are >>proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are >>currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). > > Continuing to demote Python 2, we want to get rid of it on server[*] if at all > possible. For example, I've identified byobu, landscape-common, and vim as > three packages with `Task: server` pulling in Python 2.7. > > For byobu, we have LP: #1253458, currently waiting on some feedback from > Dustin. This is incurring a bit of work for me upstream, in trying to continue producing a Byobu orig tarball that runs everywhere (back to Ubuntu 12.04, weird UNIXes, weird Linuxes)... But you have my commitment that it will be fixed for Ubuntu 14.04. Thanks ;-) > For vim, we have http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=729924 > currently waiting on feedback from Debian Vim maintainers. I'm not a Vim > user, but if you want to help test this, a package is available in my PPA: > > https://launchpad.net/~barry/+archive/experimental > > Based on your feedback, I'd be willing to temporarily get ahead of Debian > here. > > landscape-client may be trickier because that gets us into some Twisted > packages, which aren't yet packaged for Python 3. > > See also (and add anything missing!): > > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-python3-roadmap > http://tinyurl.com/mmj4y6a > >>http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server-ship > >>Description: Server ISO image >> >>nut, nut-cgi, nut-snmp (move to supported-misc-servers) >>likewise-open (largely unmaintained in distro - >>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LikewiseOpen) >>powernap, powernap-server (still revelvant?) > > Looks like powernap still depends on Python 2. > >>quagga (maybe move to supported-misc-servers) >>backuppc >>python-beautifulsoup > > Whatever is pulling this one in should be ported to python3-bs4, or at least > python-bs4 since afaict beautifulsoup 3 is no longer being actively maintained > upstream (critical bug fixes only according to them). > >>python-genshi (will be pulled into main via supported-misc-servers ... > > Upstream 0.7 supports Python 3, but not yet Debian - BTS #731280. > >>python-pecan) > > Upstream 0.4.2 supports Python 3, but not yet Debian - BTS #731283. > > Cheers, > - -Barry > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJSnmBKAAoJEBJutWOnSwa/6vsP/jNdnhx9xIM7HiNvgaL0QIr0 > DTuZwxL87E086hdDY0X8fqTf/vT+Xo+zecuHwedePIOL8BZlA/mWX8Bsge7nQc3g > 1jInf6rBR6qNMgEos1gh/5xTJgvq+WS7zLLrPwabejWmOlyT7R13mPEEuJ5ozBfC > G8QcH5Hl61B84SbTd2Pfxjfr+ae6gxsfuqhQcYJ4JuIQ5EIvSV0txvG2tRJuUaCG > AXGg3kiX4IbjeKIMIr4MO9YRlNhgJTp1QR8j4wsZU8yH3xyjukOeBd5jlD+zItT8 > ZlCVdiXZaPR3qsBNIZTszVQ8W00h6515BOhdW/RydmyzA/bf15usaJPImlJjpQ0d > AWEpsO3a9RlKzJBmfiwNYAkUPBd+xRNT0DVDRF+XhVrUJLhee/U3VUl6luzu2I1V > rYC0XU8TneEp92D0XNHM9IyNft0/UyfYQbioTBfb2NBnPRoa6pR25JsPMpod4fBW > KBGvAcSg3Xkir7yghCQLNKIE5K6wb3gLufOXTjqnMSjajOk4NnRfI3hBHoiXMkh+ > 0fmkwpWHUeYbF7Hol+DYC297Nd/AbYxBfaE2FnC0ElE9Y6tjs/o9krarRtEX1Ay0 > kIYDTRMUBSMRhjm5TGY7LPKeOdMZHXfUTf75vtKdSecHk9Gt4hOvqR2J1Wh7nj82 > Vf7zIIz9Rl37N2JU8Hwe > =A7DV > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM, James Page wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi Folks > > As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are > proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are > currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). > > Here's the initial review of seeds, and some proposed moves and drops > we are considering: > > Branch: > https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server > > Description: Default server install > > whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) > wireless-tools > wpasupplicant > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server-ship > > Description: Server ISO image > > nut, nut-cgi, nut-snmp (move to supported-misc-servers) > likewise-open (largely unmaintained in distro - > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LikewiseOpen) > powernap, powernap-server (still revelvant?) No objection from me (co-maintainer) to drop PowerNap from the ISO. It's still easy to get post installation. > quagga (maybe move to supported-misc-servers) > backuppc > python-beautifulsoup > python-genshi (will be pulled into main via supported-misc-servers ... > python-pecan) > whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) > mutt > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/cloud-image > > Description: Default cloud-image install > > whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) > tasksel (drops aptitude etc.) > euca2ools (move to supported-misc-servers) > > Branch: > https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty/view/head:/supported-misc-servers > > Description: Other supported stuff which is not on the ISO > > No candidates identified > > And a few other packages that we'd like to not be part of the cloud > images (which include the 'cloud-image' and 'server' seeds). These > are not explicitly listed in either of these seeds but are pulled in > due to dependencies or Recommends. > > ppp > usbutils > os-prober > aptitude > memtest86 > > ... and discuss! > > I'd like to land any changes early in 2014 prior to feature freeze. > > Cheers > > James > > [0] http://pad.ubuntu.com/server-seed-review > > - -- > James Page > Ubuntu and Debian Developer > james.p...@ubuntu.com > jamesp...@debian.org > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJSngfVAAoJEL/srsug59jDDG4QAJbbX1aii7pw1mOVliFOjrHc > uDunTZ3acW9dpCL2CdnkHc1TDnEMczko/7Rm8VhdNqENkUc7Z3V6NEaq7itgG/a2 > w6dyszKm8c8MWvnr6lTpor1Hjb+7qomRZdqbQyQZGPCxQyrLbDR62ggEqYztVf36 > glatqylywKRIYhSdTCjD7OteDi9Sur76JOdmAkng+BsjWTnxFQgjju19qpl3MDvm > iOzmd2WQk0GAGQWmrU/8UrKwjglPD+qXJpRjpdSQ3N2iKZRzW3XRXoXMlybqalJC > dkXnfaDSv8sJsFZXatEA6T/3zcpZaByRcdxpEq8aP+EMTov1F6kDtBrXLfWquQGU > V9BRRbfQCA+xPci9lqpcaRha1boFCGTDbp8zOpPhWUoJQzbUS/x1aKjrSggbRj+v > jvrpPxsDud2xOVEcl5rIpmjEkv1YLTh0AVJL1rMI/CvXXvA52dlMwy2qoxN+i4JW > PHMWVH6M29lNfO37/n3uloznVlNde+qR1uuUkZyzd86piHOReTUejUS+Cw5DxtAl > EJooyuT/6eKVx2gY/MvkAWAiOxVXaHl8NaGr/l7sIZTOgL4eYw4flI1Z87X2O7X5 > fUM9iHX31wU8+jIjEehjeOWWaPNJ1WNMS+L8T9SiqCjy+PHvHAajhWd1hUrLiKs8 > HYRLA2uA4Zlf2pOuA6CL > =fbfY > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On 3 December 2013 22:50, Barry Warsaw wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Dec 03, 2013, at 04:33 PM, James Page wrote: > >>As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are >>proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are >>currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). > > Continuing to demote Python 2, we want to get rid of it on server[*] if at all > possible. For example, I've identified byobu, landscape-common, and vim as > three packages with `Task: server` pulling in Python 2.7. > > For byobu, we have LP: #1253458, currently waiting on some feedback from > Dustin. > > For vim, we have http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=729924 > currently waiting on feedback from Debian Vim maintainers. I'm not a Vim > user, but if you want to help test this, a package is available in my PPA: > > https://launchpad.net/~barry/+archive/experimental > > Based on your feedback, I'd be willing to temporarily get ahead of Debian > here. > > landscape-client may be trickier because that gets us into some Twisted > packages, which aren't yet packaged for Python 3. > What portion of landscape-client is on the server-cd? For example on the desktop CDs, we only have landscape-client-ui-install which is a small shim that bootstraps / installs the rest of the landscape support packages from the archive. If on the server CD, it's not a small shim yet, maybe we can make it to be as such (and in python3) ? Regards, Dmitrijs. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Dec 03, 2013, at 04:33 PM, James Page wrote: >As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are >proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are >currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). Continuing to demote Python 2, we want to get rid of it on server[*] if at all possible. For example, I've identified byobu, landscape-common, and vim as three packages with `Task: server` pulling in Python 2.7. For byobu, we have LP: #1253458, currently waiting on some feedback from Dustin. For vim, we have http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=729924 currently waiting on feedback from Debian Vim maintainers. I'm not a Vim user, but if you want to help test this, a package is available in my PPA: https://launchpad.net/~barry/+archive/experimental Based on your feedback, I'd be willing to temporarily get ahead of Debian here. landscape-client may be trickier because that gets us into some Twisted packages, which aren't yet packaged for Python 3. See also (and add anything missing!): https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-python3-roadmap http://tinyurl.com/mmj4y6a >http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server-ship >Description: Server ISO image > >nut, nut-cgi, nut-snmp (move to supported-misc-servers) >likewise-open (largely unmaintained in distro - >https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LikewiseOpen) >powernap, powernap-server (still revelvant?) Looks like powernap still depends on Python 2. >quagga (maybe move to supported-misc-servers) >backuppc >python-beautifulsoup Whatever is pulling this one in should be ported to python3-bs4, or at least python-bs4 since afaict beautifulsoup 3 is no longer being actively maintained upstream (critical bug fixes only according to them). >python-genshi (will be pulled into main via supported-misc-servers ... Upstream 0.7 supports Python 3, but not yet Debian - BTS #731280. >python-pecan) Upstream 0.4.2 supports Python 3, but not yet Debian - BTS #731283. Cheers, - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJSnmBKAAoJEBJutWOnSwa/6vsP/jNdnhx9xIM7HiNvgaL0QIr0 DTuZwxL87E086hdDY0X8fqTf/vT+Xo+zecuHwedePIOL8BZlA/mWX8Bsge7nQc3g 1jInf6rBR6qNMgEos1gh/5xTJgvq+WS7zLLrPwabejWmOlyT7R13mPEEuJ5ozBfC G8QcH5Hl61B84SbTd2Pfxjfr+ae6gxsfuqhQcYJ4JuIQ5EIvSV0txvG2tRJuUaCG AXGg3kiX4IbjeKIMIr4MO9YRlNhgJTp1QR8j4wsZU8yH3xyjukOeBd5jlD+zItT8 ZlCVdiXZaPR3qsBNIZTszVQ8W00h6515BOhdW/RydmyzA/bf15usaJPImlJjpQ0d AWEpsO3a9RlKzJBmfiwNYAkUPBd+xRNT0DVDRF+XhVrUJLhee/U3VUl6luzu2I1V rYC0XU8TneEp92D0XNHM9IyNft0/UyfYQbioTBfb2NBnPRoa6pR25JsPMpod4fBW KBGvAcSg3Xkir7yghCQLNKIE5K6wb3gLufOXTjqnMSjajOk4NnRfI3hBHoiXMkh+ 0fmkwpWHUeYbF7Hol+DYC297Nd/AbYxBfaE2FnC0ElE9Y6tjs/o9krarRtEX1Ay0 kIYDTRMUBSMRhjm5TGY7LPKeOdMZHXfUTf75vtKdSecHk9Gt4hOvqR2J1Wh7nj82 Vf7zIIz9Rl37N2JU8Hwe =A7DV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Server seeded package review
On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 04:33:26PM +, James Page wrote: > Hi Folks > Description: Default server install > > [...] > wireless-tools > wpasupplicant For bootstrapping reasons, it would be nice to keep these on the ISO even if not in the default install. Would there be any real cost to doing this? I presume they're in main due to desktop needs anyway? Robie signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Ubuntu Server seeded package review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Folks As part of tidying for the next LTS release, the Server Team are proposing a review of server released seeded packages that are currently in Ubuntu main (proposed changes tracked in [0] for now). Here's the initial review of seeds, and some proposed moves and drops we are considering: Branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server Description: Default server install whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) wireless-tools wpasupplicant http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/server-ship Description: Server ISO image nut, nut-cgi, nut-snmp (move to supported-misc-servers) likewise-open (largely unmaintained in distro - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LikewiseOpen) powernap, powernap-server (still revelvant?) quagga (maybe move to supported-misc-servers) backuppc python-beautifulsoup python-genshi (will be pulled into main via supported-misc-servers ... python-pecan) whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) mutt http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.trusty/view/head:/cloud-image Description: Default cloud-image install whoopsie (ack'ed by ev) tasksel (drops aptitude etc.) euca2ools (move to supported-misc-servers) Branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.trusty/view/head:/supported-misc-servers Description: Other supported stuff which is not on the ISO No candidates identified And a few other packages that we'd like to not be part of the cloud images (which include the 'cloud-image' and 'server' seeds). These are not explicitly listed in either of these seeds but are pulled in due to dependencies or Recommends. ppp usbutils os-prober aptitude memtest86 ... and discuss! I'd like to land any changes early in 2014 prior to feature freeze. Cheers James [0] http://pad.ubuntu.com/server-seed-review - -- James Page Ubuntu and Debian Developer james.p...@ubuntu.com jamesp...@debian.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJSngfVAAoJEL/srsug59jDDG4QAJbbX1aii7pw1mOVliFOjrHc uDunTZ3acW9dpCL2CdnkHc1TDnEMczko/7Rm8VhdNqENkUc7Z3V6NEaq7itgG/a2 w6dyszKm8c8MWvnr6lTpor1Hjb+7qomRZdqbQyQZGPCxQyrLbDR62ggEqYztVf36 glatqylywKRIYhSdTCjD7OteDi9Sur76JOdmAkng+BsjWTnxFQgjju19qpl3MDvm iOzmd2WQk0GAGQWmrU/8UrKwjglPD+qXJpRjpdSQ3N2iKZRzW3XRXoXMlybqalJC dkXnfaDSv8sJsFZXatEA6T/3zcpZaByRcdxpEq8aP+EMTov1F6kDtBrXLfWquQGU V9BRRbfQCA+xPci9lqpcaRha1boFCGTDbp8zOpPhWUoJQzbUS/x1aKjrSggbRj+v jvrpPxsDud2xOVEcl5rIpmjEkv1YLTh0AVJL1rMI/CvXXvA52dlMwy2qoxN+i4JW PHMWVH6M29lNfO37/n3uloznVlNde+qR1uuUkZyzd86piHOReTUejUS+Cw5DxtAl EJooyuT/6eKVx2gY/MvkAWAiOxVXaHl8NaGr/l7sIZTOgL4eYw4flI1Z87X2O7X5 fUM9iHX31wU8+jIjEehjeOWWaPNJ1WNMS+L8T9SiqCjy+PHvHAajhWd1hUrLiKs8 HYRLA2uA4Zlf2pOuA6CL =fbfY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
