Re: Unity Going Forward
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:21:18AM +0930, Jason Warner wrote: [2] - We know Unity is showing some graphical corruption inside a VM. Work to correct this has been done but not landed yet. Do you have a bug reference for this? I'm unable to work on ubiquity in KVM right now, which is my normal working environment for installer development, and I'd like to know what bug report I should keep an eye on. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
Colin Watson [2012-08-23 13:12 +0100]: On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:21:18AM +0930, Jason Warner wrote: [2] - We know Unity is showing some graphical corruption inside a VM. Work to correct this has been done but not landed yet. Do you have a bug reference for this? I'm unable to work on ubiquity in KVM right now, which is my normal working environment for installer development, and I'd like to know what bug report I should keep an eye on. I think that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1021104 Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
On 20 August 2012 19:20, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 20 August 2012 00:30, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: Hi Colin - On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 August 2012 01:51, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: ... But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. A heads up to make sure that the case of dual monitors with i945 graphics chipset (and possibly others) has been considered. That chipset will only run 3d if the virtual desktop is less than 2048 pixels wide so when an external monitor is plugged in only unity-2d will run at the moment. If the external monitor is not plugged in then 3d is ok. Having removed unity-2d the software will have to cope with plugging in the external monitor in some way. Note that this is an issue for laptops made only a few years ago (Toshiba Satellite for example). Is there an bug for this? if not, please file one so we can track it. Thanks. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1039051 That bug has been marked as a duplicate of #824099, Max GL texture size can break multi-head [1], which is marked Won't Fix. Can anyone explain why this capability will not be provided by llvmpipe on Quantal? [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/824099 Colin -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
On 17 August 2012 01:51, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: ... But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. A heads up to make sure that the case of dual monitors with i945 graphics chipset (and possibly others) has been considered. That chipset will only run 3d if the virtual desktop is less than 2048 pixels wide so when an external monitor is plugged in only unity-2d will run at the moment. If the external monitor is not plugged in then 3d is ok. Having removed unity-2d the software will have to cope with plugging in the external monitor in some way. Note that this is an issue for laptops made only a few years ago (Toshiba Satellite for example). For these cases, we are actively working on Unity running through LLVMpipe which is a work in progress. Unity through LLVMpipe is CPU bound which means systems with decently modern CPU architectures and non-GPU accelerated hardware should be able to run Unity. As I mentioned, this approach is a work in progress as we tweak the experience and effects to maximize the performance. We expect this to shake out over the rest of this cycle and bleed into 13.04 as well[2][3]. Is it correct that at the moment a machine that will not run 2d will not run at all after todays update? This seems to be the case for me at the moment, I see no unity shell on screen and in .xsession-errors I see compiz (unityshell) - Error: OpenGL 1.4+ not supported When can I expect llvmpipe to start working so I know whether to log bugs? Colin Law -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
Hi Colin - On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 August 2012 01:51, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: ... But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. A heads up to make sure that the case of dual monitors with i945 graphics chipset (and possibly others) has been considered. That chipset will only run 3d if the virtual desktop is less than 2048 pixels wide so when an external monitor is plugged in only unity-2d will run at the moment. If the external monitor is not plugged in then 3d is ok. Having removed unity-2d the software will have to cope with plugging in the external monitor in some way. Note that this is an issue for laptops made only a few years ago (Toshiba Satellite for example). Is there an bug for this? if not, please file one so we can track it. Thanks. For these cases, we are actively working on Unity running through LLVMpipe which is a work in progress. Unity through LLVMpipe is CPU bound which means systems with decently modern CPU architectures and non-GPU accelerated hardware should be able to run Unity. As I mentioned, this approach is a work in progress as we tweak the experience and effects to maximize the performance. We expect this to shake out over the rest of this cycle and bleed into 13.04 as well[2][3]. Is it correct that at the moment a machine that will not run 2d will not run at all after todays update? This seems to be the case for me at the moment, I see no unity shell on screen and in .xsession-errors I see compiz (unityshell) - Error: OpenGL 1.4+ not supported When can I expect llvmpipe to start working so I know whether to log bugs? The rought ETA is sometime just after FF, so adding some time for testing and shakeout, it might be closer to beta1. Colin Law -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
On 20 August 2012 00:30, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: Hi Colin - On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Colin Law clan...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 August 2012 01:51, Jason Warner jason.war...@canonical.com wrote: ... But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. A heads up to make sure that the case of dual monitors with i945 graphics chipset (and possibly others) has been considered. That chipset will only run 3d if the virtual desktop is less than 2048 pixels wide so when an external monitor is plugged in only unity-2d will run at the moment. If the external monitor is not plugged in then 3d is ok. Having removed unity-2d the software will have to cope with plugging in the external monitor in some way. Note that this is an issue for laptops made only a few years ago (Toshiba Satellite for example). Is there an bug for this? if not, please file one so we can track it. Thanks. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1039051 For these cases, we are actively working on Unity running through LLVMpipe which is a work in progress. Unity through LLVMpipe is CPU bound which means systems with decently modern CPU architectures and non-GPU accelerated hardware should be able to run Unity. As I mentioned, this approach is a work in progress as we tweak the experience and effects to maximize the performance. We expect this to shake out over the rest of this cycle and bleed into 13.04 as well[2][3]. Is it correct that at the moment a machine that will not run 2d will not run at all after todays update? This seems to be the case for me at the moment, I see no unity shell on screen and in .xsession-errors I see compiz (unityshell) - Error: OpenGL 1.4+ not supported When can I expect llvmpipe to start working so I know whether to log bugs? The rought ETA is sometime just after FF, so adding some time for testing and shakeout, it might be closer to beta1. I have submitted a bug for this too in order to track it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1039155 It is unfortunate that unity-2d has been removed before the replacement is available as now one of my test machines is out of action for Quantal testing. I can logon but then just get the background image and no launcher or panel. Colin -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Unity Going Forward
On Aug 17, 2012, at 10:21 AM, Jason Warner wrote: But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. There's another important environment that Unity 2D supported: VMs which lack OpenGL support. An example of this is VMware Fusion on OS X which, until recently did not support Unity 3D. I believe it still does not *officially* support OpenGL on non-Windows guests. Unofficially though, at least with 12.10 (and I think 12.04), Fusion 4.1 does support OpenGL sufficiently to allow you to run Unity 3D. Go to the Settings-Display page and enable Accelerate 3D Graphics (shut down your VM first). I've been running 12.10 this way since early pre-alphas and it seems to work fairly well, with minimal glitches. The most noticeable for me is that Emacs repaints rather slowly from top to bottom on some full refreshes. I don't see this on native hardware. Other than a few other weird little issues that show up only on Unity 3D[*], I've been generally happy about it lately on a variety of real and virtual hardware. Cheers, -Barry [*] LP: #751858 Emacs geometry is still messed up. LP: #1038087 Weird switcher bug affecting claws-mail -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Unity Going Forward
*Hi Everyone - Today is the first day that 'Unity' can be used without confusion on Ubuntu. Unity 2D has been removed as a default option in favor of Unity 3D across the board. This is a work in progress, so bear with us as we sort out the details in the transition. What does this mean? First and foremost, it means we have one codebase going forward. Secondly, it means that that there will be some regressions in use cases where Unity 2D fit in the past. Lastly, it means you should see a unified experience wherever Unity runs. Ever since Unity was introduced there have been slight gaps in the experience between Unity 2D and Unity 3D (forever forward called Unity). With one code base for all form factors we can guarantee a unified experience. One code base also means we should be able to move faster as we don't have to split the effort anymore, further accelerating our pace of innovation. But there is a cost to this decision. Unity 2D fit a very specific use case in very low-end and non-GPU accelerated hardware. By consolidating to Unity using LLVMpipe for this specific use case we expect to see some regressions in systems supported. This means that a certain class of hardware will no longer be supported to run Unity. Unity will run on all GPUs that support OpenGL 2.0. The earliest GPUs that meet this requirement are at least 5 years old[1]. Even so, we know some subset of cards and hardware that could previously run Unity 2D will no longer be able to run Unity. For these cases, we are actively working on Unity running through LLVMpipe which is a work in progress. Unity through LLVMpipe is CPU bound which means systems with decently modern CPU architectures and non-GPU accelerated hardware should be able to run Unity. As I mentioned, this approach is a work in progress as we tweak the experience and effects to maximize the performance. We expect this to shake out over the rest of this cycle and bleed into 13.04 as well[2][3]. Still, with all the above, there will be systems that are simply too old to run Unity. In those cases it would be necessary to either stick with 12.04 LTS or run another desktop environment[4]. We want this transition to go as smoothly as possible and are working on supporting as much hardware as we reasonably can. Hopefully we should have most of the wrinkles worked out by 12.10 release with just a little hangover for 13.04. Thank you, Jason Ubuntu Desktop Manager [1] - Unity will run on GPUs with support for OpenGL 2.0 The earliest GPUs meeting this requirement are at least 5 years old Intel i915 NVIDIA GeForce 5200FX and up (5200, 6xxx, 9xxx, xxxGT(X/S)) ATI Radeon 9000 and up, maybe earlier (9000, X1xxx, HD) By chip series rather than model series: Intel: i915 ATI: R300 chip series Nvidia: NV30 chip series [2] - We know Unity is showing some graphical corruption inside a VM. Work to correct this has been done but not landed yet. [3] - We know Unity won’t work right now on ARM. A solution is being worked on and should be ready shortly, hopefully before feature freeze. [4] - http://askubuntu.com/questions/65083/what-different-desktop-environments-and-shells-are-available * -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
