Re: Hardy Alpha 3 released

[Conrad Knauer]

On Jan 10, 2008 4:46 PM, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Welcome to Hardy Heron Alpha-3, which will in time become Ubuntu 8.04.
[...]
> Alpha 3 includes several new features that are ready for large-scale
> testing.  Please refer to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha3 for
> information on changes in Ubuntu

"The latest Firefox 3 beta comes with Alpha 3, bringing much better
system integration including theming that mirrors the system such as
icons and colours as well as having GTK2 form buttons and open
dialog."

FYI to anyone interested in testing the LiveCD, the version of Firefox
in use is still 2 (2.0.0.10); version 3 ("3.0b3pre") has to be
manually installed from the Universe repository; package
"firefox-3.0".

CK

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Re: Apt-Cacher again, sorta

[Fabian Rodriguez]

Kevin Fries wrote:
> At the risk of picking at old wounds...
>
> I noticed a behavior this week that probably should be addressed.  I
> fell into it by relying on Apt-Cacher, but a quick search on the forums
> shows lots of others having issues based upon other types of
> connectivity problems...
[...]

Kevin, can you provide any URLs to those forum posts ? I can look into
it over the next few days. I originally was interested in writin a MIR
about apt-cacher, just haven' t gotten around writing it yet. At the
time I searched for a good time for reports about any issues with
apt-cacher and couldn' t find any, not bug reports.

Tx,

Fabian


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Re: Kerberos? Does anyone have this running?

[Morten Kjeldgaard]

> Tried that and actually configuring DNS.  DNS is now fully up and
> running, yet...
>
> Others in the forums report the same failure despite dnsdomainname
> returning correctly.  Yet, there were no responses.  That is why I
> decided to ask the developers.  Thinking it may be in the process of
> being EOL'd or something.

You also need to have reverse DNS up and running.

-- Morten


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Apt-Cacher again, sorta

[Kevin Fries]

At the risk of picking at old wounds...

I noticed a behavior this week that probably should be addressed.  I
fell into it by relying on Apt-Cacher, but a quick search on the forums
shows lots of others having issues based upon other types of
connectivity problems...

I have been building VMs like mad.  I have a simulation build that I am
in the middle of that include a minimum of seven machines on four
virtual networks.  I tried this on my laptop... not one of my smarter
ideas.  I now have a nice server I conned somebody out of.  Here is how
I fell into the trap:

I built a basic Ubuntu Server build.  I then added the VMware server
from the VMware site (the one in the repositories for some silly reason
has no management piece).  I then build my first virtual machine
using Ubuntu Jeos (yes Neal, its that project, remind me to show you
when I see you next).  This first server was designed to represent a
Linux firewall locked down to within an inch of its life.  No
pass-through.  I installed DNS and DHCP to serve the other machines to
come (its also the machine I am fighting with kerberos on).  In the
wild, this network will be extremely restrictive, and standard desktops
may or may not have access to the Internet.  To keep the simulation
simple, I am assuming no machine has access to the Internet, knowing
that I can always relax the restriction in production.

Now I built the second machine on the network.  The first machine had
eth0 set up using bridging, and eth1 and eth2 connected to private
networks.  The second machine connected to one of these private
networks.  Updates will be done via Apt-Cacher installed on the first
machine.  However, when installing on these machines inside the
protected network, installation came to a halt, often waiting as much as
an hour before tossing an error on the screen and moving on.  You see,
it got upset over Apt wanting to get to the Internet to configure the
Mirrors.  Once it finally gave up, it left the sources.list file in a
mess, then finished the install.

Now I know some of you are going to think that I am going to bring up
about supporting Apt-Cacher on install again aren't you?  Well consider
this my only pitch on that, because there is a bigger more important
point here.

When I looked up the issue (as I thought the install had crashed after
30 minutes of inactivity), I saw a bunch of people with the same issue.
They were complaining about it, and telling newbs to disconnect their
network card from the network to make it work.  OUCH!  Is this what we
want to tell newbs right after we convince them that Linux is as easy to
use as Windows?  While they were not seeing it because of apt-cacher and
a network locked down by an insane admin (yes, me), they were seeing it
due to either overloaded mirrors at the time, or other networking
issues.

I know there was conversations about including apt-cacher or some other
apt mirroring software into hardy here just a few months ago.  But if we
are not going to do that, we should at least make the process less
painful in the case of simple communications errors.  Some of these
people out on the forums were just jacked up because the wireless driver
was not included on the CD by default.

Maybe we need to delay this mirror finding piece until after install?

Maybe we need to have this mirror finding piece understand a downed
network?

Maybe we need to have this mirror finding piece time out quicker?

Something, I am a geek to the core.  Been using Linux since the RedHat 2
days.  So, once I realized what was going on, I went to lunch.  Once I
got back, Ubuntu had dumped garbage and went on.  I could then easily
clean up the mess.  But Ubuntu is trying to reach out to newbs.  And
they will not understand.  It also leaves no repos installed which can
cause a second round of confusion to the less initiated.

Just my $0.02

-- 
Kevin Fries
Senior Linux Engineer
Computer and Communications Technology, Inc
A Division of Japan Communications Inc.

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Re: Kerberos? Does anyone have this running?

[Neal McBurnett]

On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 03:02:28PM -0700, Kevin Fries wrote:
> >  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/159357
> 
> Yep, saw that, and followed that thread.  But I like many others have
> dnsdomainname working correctly, and it is still not working.
...
> Others in the forums report the same failure despite dnsdomainname
> returning correctly.  Yet, there were no responses.  That is why I
> decided to ask the developers.  Thinking it may be in the process of
> being EOL'd or something.

Well of course kerberos is part of AD also, so I don't think there is
much risk of it being EOL'd.  But finding an easier way to configure
it all is a high priority.

Again, I think that posting those results, config files, etc to the
relevant launchpad bug report(s) is the best way to get developer
assistance.  Or the IRC links I gave before.

Good luck!

-Neal

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Re: Kerberos? Does anyone have this running?

[Kevin Fries]

On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 12:30 -0700, Neal McBurnett wrote:
> My guess is that the server team mailing list, or #ubuntu-server
> or #kerberos would be better places for this discussion.  But read on
> - my comments are interspersed.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 06:17:56PM +0100, Magnus Runesson wrote:
> > Do you have the full links to the doc you refer to?
> I second the question :-)   Makes it much easier for the many readers
> of this thread.

The original doc I was trying to follow was:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SingleSignOn

it fails at step 3.1.3

> > > Is there something going on with Kerberos as to why there is no help, or
> > > bug fixes?  Is this package going the way of the Woolly Mammoth?  Or is
> > > it just not getting enough TLC?  Or, is something else going on?
> 
> I don't know, but my guess is that most of the efforts are going into
> improving interoperability with Active Directory rather than just
> kerberos.  The major news on that front is "Likewise":
> 
>  likewise: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2350659361.html

Unfortunately we are a small shop here.  I am already pushing my lab to
the limits without adding AD to the mix, lol.

> I had a problem like that once, and think that it had to do with not
> having a Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN) for my system in
> /etc/hosts.  I seem to recall that the kerberos installation uses the
> server's FQDN to make a default realm, and doesn't catch the error if
> that doesn't exist.
> 
> Googling for your error string with the word "launchpad" added (which
> helps google prioritize authoritative launchpad bugs over chat in the
> forums) led me quickly to this:
> 
>  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/159357

Yep, saw that, and followed that thread.  But I like many others have
dnsdomainname working correctly, and it is still not working.

> which gives more details on the root problem: dnsdomainname is not
> finding the FQDN.  For me, a gutsy install in which I gave it my FQDN
> at install time properly put my FQDN in the /etc/hosts file, but if
> I just gave it a local name I ran into this kerberos problem.
> 
> This is the format of what worked for me in /etc/hosts:
> 
> 127.0.1.1   example.com example

Tried that and actually configuring DNS.  DNS is now fully up and
running, yet... 

Others in the forums report the same failure despite dnsdomainname
returning correctly.  Yet, there were no responses.  That is why I
decided to ask the developers.  Thinking it may be in the process of
being EOL'd or something.

I may just blow off KRB for this project, since it is not critical,
desirable, but not critical.


-- 
Kevin Fries
Senior Linux Engineer
Computer and Communications Technology, Inc
A Division of Japan Communications Inc.

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Re: Kerberos? Does anyone have this running?

[Neal McBurnett]

My guess is that the server team mailing list, or #ubuntu-server
or #kerberos would be better places for this discussion.  But read on
- my comments are interspersed.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 06:17:56PM +0100, Magnus Runesson wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 08:59 -0700, Kevin Fries wrote:
> > I am trying to build a single signon environment as an Ubuntu demo.
> > 
> > I tried to follow the help.ubuntu.com website to insure I did it the
> > "proper" or "documented" way.  There are numerous threads of people
> > asking for help in the forums.  In addition, there are 15 bugs filed in
> > Launchpad.  Many of these are going back to 7.04.
> > 
> 
> Do you have the full links to the doc you refer to?

I second the question :-)   Makes it much easier for the many readers
of this thread.

> Regards,
> /Magnus
> 
> > Is there something going on with Kerberos as to why there is no help, or
> > bug fixes?  Is this package going the way of the Woolly Mammoth?  Or is
> > it just not getting enough TLC?  Or, is something else going on?

I don't know, but my guess is that most of the efforts are going into
improving interoperability with Active Directory rather than just
kerberos.  The major news on that front is "Likewise":

 likewise: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2350659361.html

and the server team is working on getting that integrated for Hardy.

> > For the record, I tripped upon the problem documented in the forums, and
> > launchpad bug reports, where upon install it does not properly run its
> > full configuration.  It never asks me for realm or anything.  Once
> > blowing off its config, it then fails to start (yeah I know, go figure).
> > But manually setting up the configuration does not work either.  The
> > package keeps coming up with the error: "kadmind: Improper format of
> > Kerberos configuration file while initializing context, aborting".  As
> > suggested, my dnsdomainname returns correctly, and I have manually
> > configured the files in accordance with the documentation.  No errors
> > are thrown in the syslog.

I had a problem like that once, and think that it had to do with not
having a Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN) for my system in
/etc/hosts.  I seem to recall that the kerberos installation uses the
server's FQDN to make a default realm, and doesn't catch the error if
that doesn't exist.

Googling for your error string with the word "launchpad" added (which
helps google prioritize authoritative launchpad bugs over chat in the
forums) led me quickly to this:

 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/159357

which gives more details on the root problem: dnsdomainname is not
finding the FQDN.  For me, a gutsy install in which I gave it my FQDN
at install time properly put my FQDN in the /etc/hosts file, but if
I just gave it a local name I ran into this kerberos problem.

This is the format of what worked for me in /etc/hosts:

127.0.1.1   example.com example

Cheers,

Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/

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Automating desktop CD installations.

[Evan Dandrea]

After the release of 7.10 I received a few questions about automating
installations using the desktop CD and ubiquity's new preseeding
support.  I just finished writing a brief overview of how to accomplish
this here:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbiquityAutomation

Feel free to directly email me if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Evan


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Re: Kerberos? Does anyone have this running?

[Magnus Runesson]

On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 08:59 -0700, Kevin Fries wrote:
> I am trying to build a single signon environment as an Ubuntu demo.
> 
> I tried to follow the help.ubuntu.com website to insure I did it the
> "proper" or "documented" way.  There are numerous threads of people
> asking for help in the forums.  In addition, there are 15 bugs filed in
> Launchpad.  Many of these are going back to 7.04.
> 

Do you have the full links to the doc you refer to?

Regards,
/Magnus

> Is there something going on with Kerberos as to why there is no help, or
> bug fixes?  Is this package going the way of the Woolly Mammoth?  Or is
> it just not getting enough TLC?  Or, is something else going on?
> 
> For the record, I tripped upon the problem documented in the forums, and
> launchpad bug reports, where upon install it does not properly run its
> full configuration.  It never asks me for realm or anything.  Once
> blowing off its config, it then fails to start (yeah I know, go figure).
> But manually setting up the configuration does not work either.  The
> package keeps coming up with the error: "kadmind: Improper format of
> Kerberos configuration file while initializing context, aborting".  As
> suggested, my dnsdomainname returns correctly, and I have manually
> configured the files in accordance with the documentation.  No errors
> are thrown in the syslog.
> 
> Thx
> 
> -- 
> Kevin Fries
> Senior Linux Engineer
> Computer and Communications Technology, Inc
> A Division of Japan Communications Inc.

-- 
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Re: Proposal: include Brasero by default

[Wouter Stomp]

On Jan 10, 2008 12:20 PM, Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does it integrate well with Rhythmbox, Nautilus and GNOME Volume
> Manager?
>

Rhythmbox has its own cd burning functionality built in, neither
brasero or serpentine integrate with it. Regarding nautilus and GVM:
brasero can easily be set to start when a blank cd/dvd is inserted
(can manually be done from removable drives and media preferences).
The Brasero developers are working on a patch for gnome-panel to use
G-V-M default burning application to replace the current CD/DVD
Creator behavior which is pulling N-B-C (see also
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=476423). Drag and drop works
well with brasero. Any other integration you would expect?

> Could you compare the experience between what we currently have, and
> what Brasero would give us, and put your notes here:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences/PlayingCds
>

I will do that soon.

Wouter.

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Re: Alpha 3 freeze ahead, let's go squash bugs

[Sarah Hobbs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

(``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:
> Its the end of the 9th of January, and there are still many updates coming 
> for hardy.
> Aint the "soft" freeze working?
> 
> 

Doesn't apply for universe, where there are a lot of uploads going on.

(and did you really need to quote the *entire* mail for a 2 line response?)

Hobbsee
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=r6JH
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Re: Alpha 3 freeze ahead, let's go squash bugs

[(``-_-´´) -- Fernando]

On Saturday 05 January 2008 01:47:28 Steve Langasek wrote:
> Hello Ubuntu developers,
> 
> The expected release date of Hardy Alpha 3 is this coming Thursday, January
> 10.
> 
> Based on the results of the "soft freeze" trials from alphas 1 and 2, the
> release team intends to continue with this approach to alpha milestones.
> Again, this does not mean that there is no freeze, it means that we are
> asking you the developers to implement this freeze on your end before
> uploading packages to the archive.  We still need you to refrain from
> uploading packages between Tuesday and Thursday which don't bring us closer
> to releasing the alpha, so that these days can be used for settling the
> archive and fixing any remaining showstoppers.
> 
> The list of bugs targeted for alpha-3 can be found in a couple of different
> places, according to your tastes:
> 
>   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/hardy-alpha-3
>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=949
> 
> This milestone is intended to be used for tracking bugs that must be fixed
> in order for the alpha release to happen.  If you have doubts about whether
> a bug should block the alpha, please err on the side of caution by using the
> milestone for the bug so that the release team can review it.  Please also
> consider helping with the bugs already listed there if you have the time.
> 
> The number of bugs blocking the alpha is expected to be relatively small, so
> if you don't have any milestoned bugs assigned to you, please consider
> helping with the list of bugs that are listed as release-critical for hardy
> as a whole: .  Again, please
> use your best judgement with regard to the alpha freeze when uploading fixes
> for these bugs.
> 
> Please also help us to get the archive in a consistent state again for the
> alpha, as described on
> .
> 
> Finally, if you know of new features in Hardy that you think should be
> highlighted for Alpha 3, let me or another member of the release team know
> so that they can be added to the release notes at
> .
> 
> Happy New Year,
> -- 
> Steve Langasek
> On behalf of the Ubuntu release team
> 

Its the end of the 9th of January, and there are still many updates coming for 
hardy.
Aint the "soft" freeze working?

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(``-_-´´)   http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net
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My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. 
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...



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Re: Questions about devel-discuss

[Scott James Remnant]

On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:26 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote:

> My question then, as a new list member, is when we have discussed
> options, fixes or proposed features and come to a fairly unanimous
> conclusion about the direction development should take, how do we
> communicate that to the developers? 
> 
This list is the way to communicate it to people who develop for/on
Ubuntu.

Attracting developers to a project is often a tricky art, especially
since the kinds of developers you are probably attempting to attract are
the ones that are already working on their own projects and little free
time for others.

Instead these kinds of projects make excellent starting points for
people who want to get into Ubuntu development, but don't yet have any
projects of their own.

Scott
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Re: VOIP: ekiga, wengophone, twinkle (was What is 'administrivia')

[Scott James Remnant]

On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 13:03 -0700, Neal McBurnett wrote:

> It is clear to me that we need at least one free, best-of-breed VOIP
> app shipping with Ubuntu.
> 
We currently ship Ekiga; our longer-term hopes are pinned on Telepathy
which would allow the actual use of different protocols like
SIP/Skype/etc. from the same frontend.

Scott
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Re: How an unstripped binary in a .deb package could be stripped?

[Martin Pitt]

Hi,

David MENTRE [2008-01-07 22:48 +0100]:
> I have recently noticed that the /usr/bin/ocamlrpcgen program coming
> from libocamlnet-ocaml-bin package is broken in Ubuntu Gutsy (bug
> #180364 [1]) while the same program from the same package version
> (source package ocamlnet 2.2.7) works in Debian Etch[2].

For the record, the cause has been found and it is discussed in bug
#180364.

Martin

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Re: Hardy+1 Idea: GoboLinux Filesystem Hierarchy?

[Pär Lidén]

One thing I like it with the current way is that all config files the user
need to edit are collected under /etc. Of course, if the symlinks works
correctly, they would still be with GLFH, but it would probably be quite a
mess to support this properly, and ensure that every config file actually
gets linked in the right place. And I'm not looking forward to have to check
both /etc, and having to sometimes search thtough the /Programs dir for the
right progam. right version, and then find the config file there.

I haven't used GoboLinux for myself, but I have a hard time to see exactly
how this would make things easier for users and admins. If a user wants to
install a custom version of a program, he can easily do that in his
home-directory, or if he has sufficient privileges, under /usr/local.

I know that /etc , /usr and so on are not very intuitive names, but I don't
see that as a drawback major to warrant this change. Or maybe that this is
the wrong solution to that problem.

Just my two cents.

Cheers
Pär

2008/1/9, Stephan Hermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:42:43 -0600
> schrieb "Conrad Knauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > On Jan 9, 2008 5:15 AM, Guilherme Augusto
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >> http://www.gobolinux.org/?page=at_a_glance
> > >
> > > What would improve by using Gobolinux filesystem hierarchy?
> >
> > A little over a year ago SABDFL blogged on
> > http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/66
> >
> > ---
> > A long, long time ago, packaging was an exciting idea. [...] Today,
> > these differences are just a hindrance. The fact that there are so
> > many divergent packaging systems in the free software world (and I
> > include the various *bsd's) is a waste of time and energy. [...] I'd
> > like to see us define distribution-neutral packaging that suits both
> > the source-heads and the distro-heads.
> > ---
> >
> > The GLFH sounds like a good way to create a standard package format
> > that can be easily layered over any *nix OS...
>
> Well, I don't like to interfere here with Mark, but packaging has
> absolutely nothing to do with a filesystem standard.
>
> Mark blogged this stuff not because we are in need of a new Filesystem
> Standard, but because we invent many different packaging methods for
> the same stuff. RPM, DEB Packages, SlackWare, this new python based
> packaging systen, solaris pkg, etc.
>
> A Filesystem Standard should always be applied on all unix alike and
> old unix operating systems. I wonder if you can apply GoboFHS to an
> old fart AIX unix or onto an tru64? (well, tru64 + solaris
> are the only real unixes on the market which a unix admin needs to
> work with...linux is a unix alike system and most of the admins are
> working on linux).
>
> Therefore introducing a complete new FSS doesn't bring any good to the
> world...and right now, we are not talking about the desktop here, just
> because until today there is not a real revenue stream to see from
> linux for desktop (hopefully this will change).
>
>
> Reading the docs of the GoboFHS this is just an add on to the normal
> base file system structure, therefore I think when we use our
> braincells in a good way, we find a better way, then symlinking stuff.
>
> A sysadmin has more clue about the system then the normal user has,
> which is good, so the sysadmin needs to take care about the user needs.
>
> A user just wants to save a file in a special location, let's say: My
> Files/Pr0n/Hot/Stuff/
>
> This is already being the reality...so for what we need a change
> in /var/www/mywebsite/htdocs/foo...where user bla can't save anyways?
>
>
> > > On the other hand, if someone already uses Linux, he probably got
> > > used with the "normal" filesystem hierarchy. If it is someone's
> > > first time, wouldn't it be confused to have a filesystem in a way
> > > and every Forum, HOWTO and other help docs over the net telling how
> > > to do things with another filesystem hierarchy?
> >
> > "the Unix paths [...] are actually there, but they are concealed from
> > view using the GoboHide kernel extension. This is for aesthetic
> > purposes only and purely optional"  IOW, the old way of doing things
> > should still work.
>
> Yes, but we introduce new bugs when we use a kernel extension for this.
> How long will GoBo support the stuff?
>
> > Also, just as an aside, I find that if I need Ubuntu help, searching
> > for '[my problem] Linux' isn't nearly as helpful as '[my problem]
> > Ubuntu'.  People will adapt, just as someone moving from KDE to Gnome
> > will adapt to the different apps and controls.
>
> Well that's one of the problems we have right now. Many people think:
> linux == ubuntu and Ubuntu == linux...which is totally nonsense.
> When I have a problem using my Ubuntu, hopefully the same problem will
> occure on any other distro as well. So linux as searchterm would be the
> right thing to do.
>
> > I don't think the GLFH should be rejected (just) because its
> > different; there wo

Re: Proposal: include Brasero by default

[Sebastien Bacher]

On mer, 2008-01-09 at 18:54 -0500, Bryan Haskins wrote:
> Devel discuss is probably the best place for a new idea to develop,
> then someone writes a spec, then it needs a sponsor, and then if it's
> finally decided upon, it could be included as decided.

Hi,

That's not something that should be specified since there is not a lot
to discuss and organize there, that's usually just the distribution team
doing the call after discussing on the ubuntu-devel lists.

Sebastien Bacher



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