Re: Patching

2008-01-12 Thread Bryan Haskins 
Delta-Debs are already developing, it's just not something we wanted to do
yet last I knew. It adds a ton more complication server end.

On Jan 12, 2008 3:41 PM, Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Currently, when a minor patch is uploaded to the update mirrors, Ubuntu
> users must download the entire deb package again. When it is a big package
> (say OpenOffice.org) and it is a small patch of just a few lines of code,
> this can get somewhat ridiculous. (Update size generally < 50MB)
>
> When Windows/OSX users recieve a patch, they get it in the form of an
> execuable (.msi IIRC) which modifies the executable directly. While this
> method saves considerable space over our current method, it would impose a
> major strain on the package maintainers to create an updater for every
> version. (Update size generally < 5MB)
>
> Any change in this area is far too complex for a LTS, however for 8.10 we
> have the opportunity to be innovative and create a new patching system
> better than that being used by the competition:
>
> Write a new program that is generically designed to modify any binary
> according to parameters it is passed. Write a second program that compares
> two .deb packages and outputs the parameters the first program would need to
> get from version 1 to version 2. (Update size generally < 1MB)
>
> An example would work like this:
>
>1. A new package called abc is added to the repos at version 1.
>2. Bob installs abc from synaptic.
>3. The creator of abc writes a patch, and packages abc version 1.1the way 
> they do now.
>4. When uploaded, the server that handles uploads compares version
>1.1 with version 1 and outputs an update file (some sort of xml
>format?)
>5. Bob checks for updates, finds that abc has a new version, and
>downloads the update, which is only the xml update file
>6. The installer passes the new binary-update program the xml file
>it downloaded, and the abc binary is updated with the patch.
>
> Pros:
>
>- No extra work for package maintainers.
>- Extremely tiny updates.
>
> Cons:
>
>- The method I described can't handle updates to non-binary files
>(help files, icons, etc.) This would have to be integrated somehow.
>- The framework would take considerable effort by the devs to set
>up.
>
> Overall, I think this new method is definitely a huge step forward. We are
> currently behind MS and Apple in this regard, and we have the opportunity
> not just to catch up, but to pass them. It would take a lot of work to get
> right, but it would be worth it.
>
> Evan
>
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>


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Patching

2008-01-12 Thread Evan 
Currently, when a minor patch is uploaded to the update mirrors, Ubuntu
users must download the entire deb package again. When it is a big package
(say OpenOffice.org) and it is a small patch of just a few lines of code,
this can get somewhat ridiculous. (Update size generally < 50MB)

When Windows/OSX users recieve a patch, they get it in the form of an
execuable (.msi IIRC) which modifies the executable directly. While this
method saves considerable space over our current method, it would impose a
major strain on the package maintainers to create an updater for every
version. (Update size generally < 5MB)

Any change in this area is far too complex for a LTS, however for 8.10 we
have the opportunity to be innovative and create a new patching system
better than that being used by the competition:

Write a new program that is generically designed to modify any binary
according to parameters it is passed. Write a second program that compares
two .deb packages and outputs the parameters the first program would need to
get from version 1 to version 2. (Update size generally < 1MB)

An example would work like this:

   1. A new package called abc is added to the repos at version 1.
   2. Bob installs abc from synaptic.
   3. The creator of abc writes a patch, and packages abc version 1.1 the
   way they do now.
   4. When uploaded, the server that handles uploads compares version
1.1with version 1 and outputs an update file (some sort of xml
format?)
   5. Bob checks for updates, finds that abc has a new version, and
   downloads the update, which is only the xml update file
   6. The installer passes the new binary-update program the xml file it
   downloaded, and the abc binary is updated with the patch.

Pros:

   - No extra work for package maintainers.
   - Extremely tiny updates.

Cons:

   - The method I described can't handle updates to non-binary files
   (help files, icons, etc.) This would have to be integrated somehow.
   - The framework would take considerable effort by the devs to set up.

Overall, I think this new method is definitely a huge step forward. We are
currently behind MS and Apple in this regard, and we have the opportunity
not just to catch up, but to pass them. It would take a lot of work to get
right, but it would be worth it.

Evan
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Package: hsqldb-server; Version: 1.8.0.8-1ubuntu1; Description: Java SQL database server

2008-01-12 Thread T. Friske 

Hi,

i found an error in the init script /etc/init.d/hsqldb-server. You find the 
changes I made attached as a patch file.

The command "/etc/init.d/hsqldb-server status" reports that the HSQL server is not running altough the process id in 
"/var/run/hsqldb/server.pid" is active. This happened due to the missing parameter "$type" in "is_running". It should be 
"is_running $type".


The second problem I discovered comes up when you say "/etc/init.d/hsqldb-server stop". With a urlid of just 
"jdbc:hsqldb:hsql://localhost" I get a java.lang.RuntimeException saying that the database alias could not be found. 
Altough the command still closes all databases down, I made a slight modification to the function "run_shutdown". (See 
patch file)


Hope this helps.


Best regards,
Tim Friske
--- ../hsqldb-server	2008-01-12 12:51:28.0 +0100
+++ hsqldb-server	2008-01-12 19:07:17.0 +0100
@@ -64,8 +64,11 @@
 run_shutdown()
 {
 	local servertype=$1
-
-	hsqldb-sqltool --rcfile /etc/hsqldb/sqltool.rc --sql "SHUTDOWN;" localhost-${servertype}-sa /dev/null
+local urlids=$(grep -E -m 10 '^[:blank:]*urlid' sqltool.rc | cut -d ' ' -f2 -)
+local each
+for each in $urlids; do
+	hsqldb-sqltool --rcfile /etc/hsqldb/sqltool.rc --sql "SHUTDOWN;" $each /dev/null
+done
 }
 
 
@@ -134,7 +137,7 @@
 status)
 	status=0
 	for type in server webserver; do
-		is_running
+		is_running $type
 		typestatus=$?
 		if [ $typestatus -eq 0 ]; then
 			log_success_msg "HSQLDB $type is running."
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Re: Patching

2008-01-12 Thread Aaron Whitehouse 
On 13/01/2008, Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any change in this area is far too complex for a LTS, however for 8.10 we
> have the opportunity to be innovative and create a new patching system
> better than that being used by the competition:

An interesting discussion of these kinds of changes can be found here:
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/succinct
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/apt-sync (the "summary" section contains links
to other patching ideas and outlines problems with taking a patch
approach)
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-sync

And somebody has made the delta suggestion here:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-deltas

For me (with several Ubuntu machines on the same network), the work
being undertaken under this head -
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-avahi - would have a
bigger impact on my bandwidth.

Aaron

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Re: Patching

2008-01-12 Thread Bryan Quigley 
I believe the best solution to these problems is the use of debtorrent (
http://debtorrent.alioth.debian.org/)
Which is currently in hardy (although might not actually fully work yet).
Both solutions mentioned can be implemented eventually through the use of
torrents.

I don't believe either is implemented yet:
Torrents check files in pieces so if some of the pieces have not changed
they won't need to be redownloaded.
Some torrent programs are currently trying to find local network hosts
first, before getting files from outside.

In my opinion it makes more sense to let the protocol worry about these
things then include them in apt.
Thanks,
Bryan



On Jan 12, 2008 6:16 PM, Aaron Whitehouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 13/01/2008, Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Any change in this area is far too complex for a LTS, however for 8.10we
> > have the opportunity to be innovative and create a new patching system
> > better than that being used by the competition:
>
> An interesting discussion of these kinds of changes can be found here:
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/succinct
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/apt-sync (the "summary" section contains links
> to other patching ideas and outlines problems with taking a patch
> approach)
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-sync
>
> And somebody has made the delta suggestion here:
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-deltas
>
> For me (with several Ubuntu machines on the same network), the work
> being undertaken under this head -
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-avahi - would have a
> bigger impact on my bandwidth.
>
> Aaron
>
> --
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> http://www.fsf.org
>
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Hardy Alpha-3 language selection

2008-01-12 Thread Richard Mancusi 
Desktop 386 installation:

I selected U.S. English during the installation however the
result was not that.  I noticed a different sort order in Nautilus
and JPilot week started on Monday rather then Sunday.

Re-logon with a language selection of English (USA) (American
English) created a message that said I was changing from the
"System Default".  I agreed to make the change and Nautilus
and JPilot are now correct.

Anyone else see this problem - can it be verified as a bug?

-rich

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Hardy Alpha-3 networking

2008-01-12 Thread Richard Mancusi 
Desktop i386 install

Is the following a bug or can anyone change network
settings via System/Administration/Network
And can you verify it really changed by looking in the
appropriate file.

Install took a DHCP address.  When completed I tried
to change the settings to a static with different DNS,
etc.  The box came up stating "Changing Interface
Configuration" and the status bar went back and forth
for 10 min before I killed it.

In order to properly config my network connection it
was necessary to edit:
/etc/network/interface
/etc/resolv.conf
/etc/hosts

Notes:
1. This is the same problem I had with Alpha-2.
2. Same results installing on 3 different computers at
two locations 20 miles apart.

-rich

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