Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Luke L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Full disclosure: I only tried Banshee once, briefly, and it was buggy > as Hell. Memory aside, Exaile should be looked at. I don't know about > its iPod support, though. I was a Banshee user for about 9 months or so. That ended a year ago. Unless it's changed, Banshee only recognizes songs you have imported. It does not monitor directories for new songs, and especially not recursively. I'd tell it ~/Music was my library, and then if I ripped using Sound Juicer, it wouldn't show them. If I told it to re-import ~/Music because I didn't want to go through and import each new directory individually, it'd complain that a bunch of the songs were already imported and fail. Editing the ID3 tags only changed the info in the Banshee db. It did not update the ID3 tags in the actual music files, which is kind of stupid, IMO. Oh, and the argument that it can rip so you don't need Sound Juicer...I'm fairly certain that it uses Sound Juicer as its backend for ripping anyway. Maybe some of this stuff has changed. It's been a year. Then I tried Songbird. No album art support. Also not so great directory monitoring. It's podcast support is "wonky." It refuses to accept "I want this episode, that episode, and that episode, but not this, this or that one." It downloads all episodes regardless. You stop them, and then next time it starts, it forgets that you told it to skip those episodes. Exaile...no real problems that I recall, but I don't like the interface too much. I'm not a fan of that sideways tab thing Amarok has, so... One of the coolest things I thought it had going on was that you could install new "themes" that rearranged the widgets...and then the interface improved :) Unlike Rhythmbox, it does have an EQ. Unfortunately, using the EQ kills the volume level. You have to put all EQ sliders at the top to get full volume again, and then...what's the point of the EQ thing if you're doing that? I've stuck to Rhythmbox for the last 9 months. It handles situations like ripping music into its directory just fine. It autodetects the new songs and adds them, even if they're nested in a few directories. Album art is generally handled well, though occasionally it'll pull down some weird/wrong album art from the internet. I've used it for iPods and USB-Mass-Storage devices just fine. DAAP works fine. No problems at all, really. It definitely improved a lot between Dapper (when I ditched it for Banshee) and Gutsy (when I tried it again). Party mode (where it turns into a kiosk so nobody messes with your system) is also a very nice feature that I don't recall seeing in any of the others. I just kind of wish it had some nicer visualization things. -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
I was going to suggest Exaile, but at the moment it has a memory leak that gets worse as it plays more music (it was taking up 800 MB!). I know that I do not like Rhythmbox's layout or playlist functionality. I like Amarok better than RB, but Ama doesn't detect my media keys on my laptop like RB does. Exaile is the best of Ama and RB put together. Banshee is mono, which while not an apocalyptic evil, is not what I would prefer. Of course, that's why we can choose what to install from the repos. Elisa should not be the only media player included in Intrepid or ANY release. It's a great HTPC sort of software, but not as a casual, run in the background sort of player. Full disclosure: I only tried Banshee once, briefly, and it was buggy as Hell. Memory aside, Exaile should be looked at. I don't know about its iPod support, though. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Darren Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Since F-Spot is installed by default Mono is now part of the base > install. So outside of all the debate around Mono, have we considered > installing Banshee as the default media player in Intrepid now that > Banshee 1.0 is released? > > There are a couple of positives to using Banshee by default over Rhythmbox: > 1) Complete iPod support (Rythmbox only supports reading from iPods) > 2) Large support for reading and writing from various media players. > 3) Integration with Brasero for burning audio disks > 4) Can rip audio from CD's > 5) Built-in support for last.fm > > Downsides: > 1) Seems to have more dependencies than Rythmbox > 2) To have the iPod support we need Podsleuth. > 3) Banshee uses up around twice as much memory as Rythmbox: 45 megs to > 23 megs on my system. > 4) Rythmbox has more out of the box streaming audio sites. > > > If we use Banshee we can get rid of Sound Juicer and gain iPod support > out of the box. If we use Banshee we can say to people: "Yes, your > iPod or other digital music player will work out of the box. Just > plug it in and go." > > I know this will trigger a huge debate on Mono but that really is > off-topic since the decision to use F-Spot in Hardy brought Mono in. > > If there is some positive feedback to this I can write up a spec on launchpad. > > Thanks! > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Luke L. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On 6/8/08, Darren Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Evan Dandrea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 14:43 -0400, Darren Albers wrote: >>> There are a couple of positives to using Banshee by default over >>> Rhythmbox: >>> 1) Complete iPod support (Rythmbox only supports reading from iPods) >> >> No. Rhythmbox can write to iPods just fine. >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >> >> > > I have never been able to get Rythmbox to update my iPod nor my wifes. > The Rhythmbox webpage only says it can read from iPods and other > portable devices nothing about writing. They really need to update that website. While my brother uses Amarok for his iPod, my sister hasn't had any trouble with Rhythmbox except for that time Apple switched the db's format, requiring a backported lib from Hardy to Gutsy. I need to do a dist-upgrade on her computer. -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with MS
On Sunday 08 June 2008, Jonathan Jesse wrote: [...] | I personally know Nixternal and know that his love of MS is a big joke. Is | the whole bot response on IRC the problem? It's true! I am a Micro$py and my secret lover is Ballmer, and when he isn't lookin' then it's Gates! With that said, take it to the Sounder and keep the rest off of the dev list please. Thanks! -- Richard A. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key: 0x2E2C0124 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with MS
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 4:11 AM, Nergar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Mark Fink > > I would like you to reconsider your concept of Open Source and the > reason why you are using Linux. You don't seem to understand the > philosophy behind free software. > > Foss is all about choice so if you don't like it here you can very well > use OpenBSD or anything else, but you *NEVER* talk trash about a (very > active and productive) Linux developer who uses Windows, no matter who > you are. You are free to hate and not use any Windows product but if you > want to be a respected community member you must respect the likes and > dislikes of other people. > > Now, if you could show some legal proof and remain respectful, you would > be considered more seriously, please understand that a (very biased) > blog is not the most acceptable source of information, and don't get me > started with IRC conversations. AFAIK mono is just a reimplementation in > Linux of a Microsoft technology, its not like we're using the Vista > kernel to power Ubuntu. > > P.S. I'm not an native english speaker, so anyone please feel free to > correct any spelling or gramatical errors. > > On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 21:53 -0400, Mark Fink wrote: > > > > > just because I'm not a programmer doesn't mean my opinion isn't worth > > as much or more than yours (I'm clearly better informed about these > > issues having read boycottnovell and having discussed issues with Roy > > himself). > > > > As far as Richard Johnson being a core-dev, sounds pretty scary that > > you let someone so in love with Microvell to contaminate Ubuntu. > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss I personally know Nixternal and know that his love of MS is a big joke. Is the whole bot response on IRC the problem? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Evan Dandrea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 15:20 -0400, Darren Albers wrote: >> I have never been able to get Rythmbox to update my iPod nor my wifes. > > Then please file a bug. > >> The Rhythmbox webpage only says it can read from iPods and other >> portable devices nothing about writing. > > From http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ : > "Transfer music to and from iPod, MTP, and USB Mass Storage music > players" > > I just filled a third generation iPod Nano using it. > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > In that case I stand corrected, I will have to see why mine doesn't seem to work. I have a shuffle and my wife has 2 Nano's and a 2nd gen (Yes she loves her iPods... lol) so I have some various models to test with. My primary driver for this request was the potential for iPod support out of the box so if Rhythmbox works then this change is unnecessary in my opinion. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 15:20 -0400, Darren Albers wrote: > I have never been able to get Rythmbox to update my iPod nor my wifes. Then please file a bug. > The Rhythmbox webpage only says it can read from iPods and other > portable devices nothing about writing. From http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ : "Transfer music to and from iPod, MTP, and USB Mass Storage music players" I just filled a third generation iPod Nano using it. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Evan Dandrea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 14:43 -0400, Darren Albers wrote: >> There are a couple of positives to using Banshee by default over Rhythmbox: >> 1) Complete iPod support (Rythmbox only supports reading from iPods) > > No. Rhythmbox can write to iPods just fine. > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > I have never been able to get Rythmbox to update my iPod nor my wifes. The Rhythmbox webpage only says it can read from iPods and other portable devices nothing about writing. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
No Banshee by default please. Apart from Mono dependencies, its memory consumption is much higher than Rhythmbox and Audio players are always run in the background when the user is actually doing some other work on the system. Wasting RAM on media player is not a good idea. Apart from that, RB is a great player in itself. Only thing which is missing from it is an equalizer by default. But last time I checked banshee did not have one too. - Show quoted text - On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Show quoted text - > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Darren Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> 5) Built-in support for last.fm > > > There is a rhythmbox plugin for this included in the default Hardy install. > If rhythmbox is kept, perhaps there should be a look at enabling it by > default. > > Evan > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Chandra Sekar.S -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 14:43 -0400, Darren Albers wrote: > There are a couple of positives to using Banshee by default over Rhythmbox: > 1) Complete iPod support (Rythmbox only supports reading from iPods) No. Rhythmbox can write to iPods just fine. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
Am Sonntag, den 08.06.2008, 14:43 -0400 schrieb Darren Albers: > Since F-Spot is installed by default Mono is now part of the base > install. So outside of all the debate around Mono, have we considered > installing Banshee as the default media player in Intrepid now that > Banshee 1.0 is released? Another thing you might want to take a look at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-April/003920.html and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/elisa-integration discuss the integration of Elisa media center as default media player. Bit more than Banshee instead of Rhythmbox (because Elisa would also replace totem), but worth checking out. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
Am Sonntag, den 08.06.2008, 15:02 -0400 schrieb Evan: > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Darren Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > 5) Built-in support for last.fm > > There is a rhythmbox plugin for this included in the default Hardy > install. If rhythmbox is kept, perhaps there should be a look at > enabling it by default. Enabling it by default would require to ask the user for his last.fm credentials on first start though. Enabling it without any credentials is just the same as leaving it disabled: The first time the user goes through the plugin list he'll activate it anyway. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to immediately ask for last.fm credentials on first start though... signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
2008/6/8 Sebastian Breier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Am Sonntag, den 08.06.2008, 14:43 -0400 schrieb Darren Albers: >> If we use Banshee we can get rid of Sound Juicer and gain iPod support >> out of the box. If we use Banshee we can say to people: "Yes, your >> iPod or other digital music player will work out of the box. Just >> plug it in and go." > > Can't really contribute much, because I only know (and love) rb; Here's > one thing though: Rhythmbox had CD ripping support out of the box for > years, since 8.04 it even starts up as default when inserting an audio > CD instead of Sound Juicer. > > Point is: Sound Juicer could be dropped no matter if we go for rb or > Banshee. ;) > > (Not that I dislike Sound Juicer. In fact I feel more comfortable with > it ripping CDs) I much prefer sound juicer. Rhythmbox's CD ripping is rudimentary. You can't rip individual tracks and it can't deal with various artists. I started re-ripping my CD collection and have submitted loads of bugs against it.. Caroline -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Darren Albers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 5) Built-in support for last.fm There is a rhythmbox plugin for this included in the default Hardy install. If rhythmbox is kept, perhaps there should be a look at enabling it by default. Evan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Banshee by default in Intrepid
Am Sonntag, den 08.06.2008, 14:43 -0400 schrieb Darren Albers: > If we use Banshee we can get rid of Sound Juicer and gain iPod support > out of the box. If we use Banshee we can say to people: "Yes, your > iPod or other digital music player will work out of the box. Just > plug it in and go." Can't really contribute much, because I only know (and love) rb; Here's one thing though: Rhythmbox had CD ripping support out of the box for years, since 8.04 it even starts up as default when inserting an audio CD instead of Sound Juicer. Point is: Sound Juicer could be dropped no matter if we go for rb or Banshee. ;) (Not that I dislike Sound Juicer. In fact I feel more comfortable with it ripping CDs) Bye, Sebastian. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Banshee by default in Intrepid
Since F-Spot is installed by default Mono is now part of the base install. So outside of all the debate around Mono, have we considered installing Banshee as the default media player in Intrepid now that Banshee 1.0 is released? There are a couple of positives to using Banshee by default over Rhythmbox: 1) Complete iPod support (Rythmbox only supports reading from iPods) 2) Large support for reading and writing from various media players. 3) Integration with Brasero for burning audio disks 4) Can rip audio from CD's 5) Built-in support for last.fm Downsides: 1) Seems to have more dependencies than Rythmbox 2) To have the iPod support we need Podsleuth. 3) Banshee uses up around twice as much memory as Rythmbox: 45 megs to 23 megs on my system. 4) Rythmbox has more out of the box streaming audio sites. If we use Banshee we can get rid of Sound Juicer and gain iPod support out of the box. If we use Banshee we can say to people: "Yes, your iPod or other digital music player will work out of the box. Just plug it in and go." I know this will trigger a huge debate on Mono but that really is off-topic since the decision to use F-Spot in Hardy brought Mono in. If there is some positive feedback to this I can write up a spec on launchpad. Thanks! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
I guess Novell has some sort of protection through the deal. Because from what I had read somewhere, there was no mention of Mono in deals wiht others like Linspire and Xandros but the Novell deal did mention it. And I have the same doubt as you. Especially the non-ecma parts like Mono's implementation of ADO.NET which also is bundled by default in Ubuntu CDs . On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Milosz Derezynski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry for dropping in. > > Has there been any mention of Microsoft that they will never, ever sue > anyone who uses Mono nor the Mono developers themselves, or is this all > under the Novell/Microsoft convenant? If they never made such a statement, > on what else than pure hope that they will never litigate can something like > Mono be built? > > -- Milosz > > 2008/6/8 Chandru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Yup much better!! But it is more than an year. :D >> >> Also, Java has a much more evolved open-source ecosystem around it. All >> those extremely high quality Apache projects. Of course, Java tops among >> Sourceforge projects too. It is really unfortunate that Hardy is not >> shipping with Java. But yes I can see the CD space constraints coming in. >> >> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 22:31 +0530, Chandru wrote: >>> > No Java is not in the same boat as .Net. There is no open-source >>> > version of .Net released by Microsoft. >>> >>> OK, fine, it's in the same boat that Java was in a year ago. Better? >>> >>> -- >>> Mackenzie Morgan >>> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com >>> apt-get moo >>> >>> -- >>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Chandra Sekar.S >> >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Blog: http://tuxychandru.blogspot.com/ >> >> We choose the brand of our Mobile Phone, Motorbike, Car, Shirt, Shoe, >> Bread, etc. Then why not the brand of our OS too? >> >> Pre-loading and forcing Vista on new laptops kills consumers' choice. >> Fight for choice of OS just as there is for the Hard Disk capacity in new >> laptops. >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >> >> > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Chandra Sekar.S e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://tuxychandru.blogspot.com/ We choose the brand of our Mobile Phone, Motorbike, Car, Shirt, Shoe, Bread, etc. Then why not the brand of our OS too? Pre-loading and forcing Vista on new laptops kills consumers' choice. Fight for choice of OS just as there is for the Hard Disk capacity in new laptops. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Sorry for dropping in. Has there been any mention of Microsoft that they will never, ever sue anyone who uses Mono nor the Mono developers themselves, or is this all under the Novell/Microsoft convenant? If they never made such a statement, on what else than pure hope that they will never litigate can something like Mono be built? -- Milosz 2008/6/8 Chandru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Yup much better!! But it is more than an year. :D > > Also, Java has a much more evolved open-source ecosystem around it. All > those extremely high quality Apache projects. Of course, Java tops among > Sourceforge projects too. It is really unfortunate that Hardy is not > shipping with Java. But yes I can see the CD space constraints coming in. > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 22:31 +0530, Chandru wrote: >> > No Java is not in the same boat as .Net. There is no open-source >> > version of .Net released by Microsoft. >> >> OK, fine, it's in the same boat that Java was in a year ago. Better? >> >> -- >> Mackenzie Morgan >> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com >> apt-get moo >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >> >> > > > -- > Chandra Sekar.S > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Blog: http://tuxychandru.blogspot.com/ > > We choose the brand of our Mobile Phone, Motorbike, Car, Shirt, Shoe, > Bread, etc. Then why not the brand of our OS too? > > Pre-loading and forcing Vista on new laptops kills consumers' choice. Fight > for choice of OS just as there is for the Hard Disk capacity in new laptops. > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Customized CD
Hi, I'm not sure I'm on the correct list here. I'm trying to setup a customized CD for future installations on a large number of computers. During the installation, I'll have no network, so I can only depend on CD. Basicly, I: - copied the original Xubuntu CD on disk - added a preseed file under /preseed/myseed.seed - created an /extra/ folder where I have wrote a "late_command.sh" script that's ran from the pressed/late_command statement. - hold a few .deb packages downloaded from ubuntu mirrors as they are not available on the original CD. - tweaked /isolinux/isolinux.cfg to boot on my customized preseed file. Other than that, I haven't changed the CD's original structure. From which I generate and burn an ISO file. I'd like to know which tool I should use in my .sh script to install extra debs I have downloaded. I used "udpkg -i mydeb.deb", but its being installed in the CD's environement and not under /target/, which is where the OS is installed. I have tried putting the downloaded extra debs under the CD's /pool/ structure, but it's really a pain having to rebuild "Packages" files, create a gpg key, like if it was a whole new distro. I failed doing this multiple times and I'm running out of time trying to figure out how to make it right. So any help would be appreciated. If I'm on the wrong list, please be kind to point to the right one. Thanks a lot. Best regards, -- Alexandre CONRAD -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Yup much better!! But it is more than an year. :D Also, Java has a much more evolved open-source ecosystem around it. All those extremely high quality Apache projects. Of course, Java tops among Sourceforge projects too. It is really unfortunate that Hardy is not shipping with Java. But yes I can see the CD space constraints coming in. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 22:31 +0530, Chandru wrote: > > No Java is not in the same boat as .Net. There is no open-source > > version of .Net released by Microsoft. > > OK, fine, it's in the same boat that Java was in a year ago. Better? > > -- > Mackenzie Morgan > http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com > apt-get moo > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Chandra Sekar.S e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://tuxychandru.blogspot.com/ We choose the brand of our Mobile Phone, Motorbike, Car, Shirt, Shoe, Bread, etc. Then why not the brand of our OS too? Pre-loading and forcing Vista on new laptops kills consumers' choice. Fight for choice of OS just as there is for the Hard Disk capacity in new laptops. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 22:31 +0530, Chandru wrote: > No Java is not in the same boat as .Net. There is no open-source > version of .Net released by Microsoft. OK, fine, it's in the same boat that Java was in a year ago. Better? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
No Java is not in the same boat as .Net. There is no open-source version of .Net released by Microsoft. .Net as a framework is still a proprietary product of Microsoft. They are letting Mono survive only because of their Embrace, Extend and Extinguish scheme. Not so with Java. There is an officially GPLed version of Java out there. You can be 100% sure that Sun is not going to get you into trouble for using it. Java is as open as any other open-source language today. Not so with .Net and Mono is just an implementation of an older version of .Net. Mono can never compete head-on with .Net as it can never implement latest version of .Net which Microsoft releases. They always have to play catch up. If FOSS has to succeed it must exceed the capabilities of its proprietary counter-parts. A good example for us is in Firefox, not in Mono. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:14 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm personally not a fan of Mono's dependence on Microsoft's whims, but > then Java's in pretty much the same boat with Sun, and it's still the > language I use the most. > > -- > Mackenzie Morgan > http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com > apt-get moo > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Chandra Sekar.S e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://tuxychandru.blogspot.com/ We choose the brand of our Mobile Phone, Motorbike, Car, Shirt, Shoe, Bread, etc. Then why not the brand of our OS too? Pre-loading and forcing Vista on new laptops kills consumers' choice. Fight for choice of OS just as there is for the Hard Disk capacity in new laptops. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 21:50 -0400, Mark Fink wrote: > > The problem I have with Canonical making deals with M$ is that it > means that M$ gets to collect a tax from FLOSS. It also opens the door > for Ubuntu itself to become even more tainted by M$ crap than it > already is (MONO). > > Roy Schestowitz has a lot of things to say about how Miquel Icaza is > trying to position MONO to destroy FLOSS and now with this codecs > licensing from M$ it just makes me sick. > > Maybe Roy should make a site www.boycottubuntu.com too. You know, those $'s don't make you sound more informed or more intelligent. They just make you look childish. From where I'm sitting, you're a zealous troll. Someone made a GreaseMonkey script for UbuntuForums to replace that kind of speech with something that sounds intelligent. I wish it would work for Evolution after this email. If this thread had taken place on the forums, I guarantee some of us mods would be looking at you slant-eyed wondering about the ban-hammer. I'm personally not a fan of Mono's dependence on Microsoft's whims, but then Java's in pretty much the same boat with Sun, and it's still the language I use the most. Cross-platform frameworks really are a great thing for FOSS--they make it so a user can get used to something on Windows or OSX before switching to Linux so it's not such a drastic change. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Am Samstag, den 07.06.2008, 19:04 -0400 schrieb Mark Fink: > I just read this article: > http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/07/ubuntu-remix-codecs/ > > I hope this is wrong or I will have to stop using ubuntu and find > another distro to use. Such a shame... > > Hope you are all proud of yourselves. Just to add another point to the discussion that hasn't (as I see it) brought up before: Ubuntu is (still, even if people refute that) Free Software. Even Microsoft themselves are free to take it, make a new product from it, and re-release it; Yes, there are license problems, but let's say they use a compatible license. Does that move on the behalf of Microsoft taint Ubuntu? It should, in your reasoning. Yet, what is behind it is only the freedom of Free Software at work; Commercial vendors have the freedom to do stuff and take things too. I agree that the Novell/Microsoft thing isn't such a clean cut, but I'd like to point that your arguments are mostly black & white, and this is something we really don't need to advance Free Software. Bye, Sebastian. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with MS
Dear Mark Fink I would like you to reconsider your concept of Open Source and the reason why you are using Linux. You don't seem to understand the philosophy behind free software. Foss is all about choice so if you don't like it here you can very well use OpenBSD or anything else, but you *NEVER* talk trash about a (very active and productive) Linux developer who uses Windows, no matter who you are. You are free to hate and not use any Windows product but if you want to be a respected community member you must respect the likes and dislikes of other people. Now, if you could show some legal proof and remain respectful, you would be considered more seriously, please understand that a (very biased) blog is not the most acceptable source of information, and don't get me started with IRC conversations. AFAIK mono is just a reimplementation in Linux of a Microsoft technology, its not like we're using the Vista kernel to power Ubuntu. P.S. I'm not an native english speaker, so anyone please feel free to correct any spelling or gramatical errors. On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 21:53 -0400, Mark Fink wrote: > > just because I'm not a programmer doesn't mean my opinion isn't worth > as much or more than yours (I'm clearly better informed about these > issues having read boycottnovell and having discussed issues with Roy > himself). > > As far as Richard Johnson being a core-dev, sounds pretty scary that > you let someone so in love with Microvell to contaminate Ubuntu. > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Martin Owens wrote: > > I wish people would talk about issues instead of technical solutions > or flaming some mis-informed guy. Anyone care to? Sure. I'd like to talk about the issue of people who interpret the word "free" to mean "the way I personally demand that things be"... -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 10:12:18PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote : > On Saturday 07 June 2008 21:53:10 Mark Fink wrote: > > > just because I'm not a programmer doesn't mean my opinion isn't worth > > as much or more than yours ... > > Forgot to respond to this point ... > > Actually it does, sort of. Not that you aren't a programmer. I'm not much > of > one myself. That you don't actually appear to be doing anything to make > Ubuntu better (if you are, feel free to provide some information) makes a > difference. Generally in Free software projects, the opinions of people > actually doing the work are considered more relevant than the complaints of > random strangers who don't do any actual work on the project. > > That may not be right in some moral sense and I'm reasonably certain it's not > fair, but that's the way most projects seem to work. > Except in projets where people don't sound as arrogant as this mail does. > Scott K > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Albin Tonnerre signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
I don't see what the problem is to solving his dilemma. Whining and moaning every time someone's binary is placed into code is ridiculous. Ubuntu still leaves plenty of space and SUPPORT for FULLY OPEN platforms, such as Gobuntu, working with gNewSense, the F6 option at install-time, etc. It is not hard to get fully free software if that is what you desire. That article did not seem to be informative at all; call me names or say things about me, but I'm not great at deciphering IRC chats that don't pertain to me. My above comments are discussing the generic situation of Ubuntu getting permission to use proprietary codecs in their OS for the sake of better interoperability. I would prefer a FREE option, but sometimes you have to do what it takes to get things working right. On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Martin Owens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> All of a sudden, any 'back room deals' are irrelevant. > > I wish people would talk about issues instead of technical solutions > or flaming some mis-informed guy. Anyone care to? > -- Luke L. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
