Re: Launchpad 1.2.6 released: code review by email and simpler bug page UI

[Walter Franzini]

"Matthew Revell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[...]

> Code review by email
> -
>
> Launchpad's new code review system gives you a public place to discuss
> and vote on proposed code mergers. What's more, you can easily access
> the discussion directly from both the target and source branch.
>
> This month, we've added an email interface to make it easier to fit
> Launchpad-based code review into your workflow.
>
> Aaron Bentley, who's been working on the feature, explains:
>
>   Code review by email makes each merge proposal into a mini-mailing
>   list. People can participate fully in code review whether they prefer
>   to do it using web or email.

Are the messages containing votes required to be digitally signed?

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Re: Launchpad 1.2.6 released: code review by email and simpler bug page UI

[Scott Kitterman]

On Thursday 03 July 2008 05:59, Walter Franzini wrote:
> "Matthew Revell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > Code review by email
> > -
> >
> > Launchpad's new code review system gives you a public place to discuss
> > and vote on proposed code mergers. What's more, you can easily access
> > the discussion directly from both the target and source branch.
> >
> > This month, we've added an email interface to make it easier to fit
> > Launchpad-based code review into your workflow.
> >
> > Aaron Bentley, who's been working on the feature, explains:
> >
> >   Code review by email makes each merge proposal into a mini-mailing
> >   list. People can participate fully in code review whether they prefer
> >   to do it using web or email.
>
> Are the messages containing votes required to be digitally signed?

Please discuss Launchpad development and features on a Launchpad related list.  

Scott K

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Apache2 Undefined Symbol error

[Paul Cameron]

I upgraded apache2 using 'aptitude' then retried running a mod_perl2
script on the server, but it crashed with 
 
'/usr/sbin/apache2: symbol lookup error:
/usr/lib/perl5/auto/APR/Request/Apache2\
/Apache2.so: undefined symbol: apreq_handle_apache2'.
 
 I ran 'nm' on libapr-1.so.0 and it returned "nm:/usr/lib/libapr-1.so.0:
no symbols".

Before the upgrade, it was working fine.

The apache2 package version is 2.2.4-3ubu. The server is Ubuntu 7.10.
Can you provide any help or advice with this?

Regards,

 
Paul Cameron
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Phone:(07) 3102 5687
Mobile:   0410 442 756  
 
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absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Przemysław Kulczycki]

Owners of Broadcom 43xx cards are in a very unpleasant situation when 
they want to install Ubuntu on their laptops/PCs because Ubuntu requires 
a network connection to fetch the firmware for the b43/bcm43xx driver.


If you don't have another network interface then you're stuck and have 
to use another computer or another operating system.

The b43-fwcutter downloads 2 files from openwrt.org:
http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/broadcom-wl-4.80.53.0.tar.bz2
and http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/wl_apsta-3.130.20.0.o
Maybe the guys from openwrt.org could be asked if redistribution of 
these files is possible? If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom 
for permission to redistribute these files?
If Ubuntu 8.10 is said to have pervasive network access then we should 
take care about this issue.


See bug #29566
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hw-detect/+bug/29566
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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Martin Pitt]

Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
> Owners of Broadcom 43xx cards are in a very unpleasant situation when  
> they want to install Ubuntu on their laptops/PCs because Ubuntu requires  
> a network connection to fetch the firmware for the b43/bcm43xx driver.
>
> If you don't have another network interface then you're stuck and have  
> to use another computer or another operating system.

b43-fwcutter also allows you to extract it from a MacOS CD or a
windows driver (I only tested this on an old Mac OS 10.1 CD ages ago,
though).

> The b43-fwcutter downloads 2 files from openwrt.org:
> http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/broadcom-wl-4.80.53.0.tar.bz2
> and http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/wl_apsta-3.130.20.0.o
> Maybe the guys from openwrt.org could be asked if redistribution of  
> these files is possible? 

The problem is that these files are not really legally
redistributable. openwrt cannot give us permission to redistribute
something they don't own.

> If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
> redistribute these files?

That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.

We are well aware of the mess, but unfortunately there is very little
we can do about it. :/

Martin

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Nergar]

I don't think the problem here is whether we get permission to
redistribute it or not, the problem is including closed source material
in the install CD.

On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 20:14 +0200, Przemysław Kulczycki wrote:
> Owners of Broadcom 43xx cards are in a very unpleasant situation when 
> they want to install Ubuntu on their laptops/PCs because Ubuntu requires 
> a network connection to fetch the firmware for the b43/bcm43xx driver.
> 
> If you don't have another network interface then you're stuck and have 
> to use another computer or another operating system.
> The b43-fwcutter downloads 2 files from openwrt.org:
> http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/broadcom-wl-4.80.53.0.tar.bz2
> and http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/wl_apsta-3.130.20.0.o
> Maybe the guys from openwrt.org could be asked if redistribution of 
> these files is possible? If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom 
> for permission to redistribute these files?
> If Ubuntu 8.10 is said to have pervasive network access then we should 
> take care about this issue.
> 
> See bug #29566
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hw-detect/+bug/29566


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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
>> If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
>> redistribute these files?
>
> That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.

And even then, that'd just give Canonical permission to redistribute
them.  It wouldn't give us (the users who like to make copies of our
Ubuntu CDs and hand them out) permission.

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Linux User #432169
ACM Member #3445683
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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Przemysław Kulczycki]

Mackenzie Morgan pisze:

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:

If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
redistribute these files?

That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.


And even then, that'd just give Canonical permission to redistribute
them.  It wouldn't give us (the users who like to make copies of our
Ubuntu CDs and hand them out) permission.


We're already doing this with ATI and Nvidia drivers, and some wifi and 
modem firmware.


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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Przemysław Kulczycki]

Nergar pisze:

I don't think the problem here is whether we get permission to
redistribute it or not, the problem is including closed source material
in the install CD.


We're already doing this with ATI and Nvidia drivers, and some wifi and 
modem firmware.

(my previous reply went to wrong post)

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Niels Egberts]

But the ati and nvidia drivers are not on the cd right? They are
downloadable, just as the drivers that are being discussed here.

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:40 PM, Przemysław Kulczycki <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mackenzie Morgan pisze:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
>>>
 If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
 redistribute these files?

>>> That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.
>>>
>>
>> And even then, that'd just give Canonical permission to redistribute
>> them.  It wouldn't give us (the users who like to make copies of our
>> Ubuntu CDs and hand them out) permission.
>>
>
> We're already doing this with ATI and Nvidia drivers, and some wifi and
> modem firmware.
>
>
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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Przemysław Kulczycki]

Martin Pitt pisze:

Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
Owners of Broadcom 43xx cards are in a very unpleasant situation when  
they want to install Ubuntu on their laptops/PCs because Ubuntu requires  
a network connection to fetch the firmware for the b43/bcm43xx driver.


If you don't have another network interface then you're stuck and have  
to use another computer or another operating system.


b43-fwcutter also allows you to extract it from a MacOS CD or a
windows driver (I only tested this on an old Mac OS 10.1 CD ages ago,
though).


But it doesn't offer it thru the GUI.
When I tried to do it thru the command line I got a message that the 
file bcmwl5.sys (from my HP laptop driver) is not recognized (wrong 
md5sum). I'll try it later with the --unsupported switch.



The b43-fwcutter downloads 2 files from openwrt.org:
http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/broadcom-wl-4.80.53.0.tar.bz2
and http://downloads.openwrt.org/sources/wl_apsta-3.130.20.0.o
Maybe the guys from openwrt.org could be asked if redistribution of  
these files is possible? 


The problem is that these files are not really legally
redistributable. openwrt cannot give us permission to redistribute
something they don't own.


So how did they get their permission?

The guys from the b43 driver are trying to make an open firmware, but it 
will take them few months I guess.


Also the same problem is for ndiswrapper - it's not on the cd even 
though it's open source. I think it should be offered as an alternative 
when an open driver doesn't work or doesn't exist. Something like 
ndisgtk could be integrated into jockey and then jockey would blacklist 
conflicting drivers, if any.
Suprisingly, ndiswrapper is more stable for me than bcm43xx. It also 
allows my card to work on higher distance from the router.(Bug 205114)


Besides, both drivers require me to use the windows drivers, so what's 
the difference on their freedom? Bcm43xx/B43 requires windows drivers 
for firmware extraction. I've used ndiswrapper since breezy, even though 
bcm43xx was available from dapper to gutsy. I guess I'll still use it in 
hardy after all.

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Sam Tygier]

Martin Pitt wrote:
> Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
>> Owners of Broadcom 43xx cards are in a very unpleasant situation when  
>> they want to install Ubuntu on their laptops/PCs because Ubuntu requires  
>> a network connection to fetch the firmware for the b43/bcm43xx driver.
>>
>> If you don't have another network interface then you're stuck and have  
>> to use another computer or another operating system.
> 
> b43-fwcutter also allows you to extract it from a MacOS CD or a
> windows driver (I only tested this on an old Mac OS 10.1 CD ages ago,
> though).

Does Jockey ask the user to put in a driver cd? or check it the firmware is on 
a windows/mac partition? or ask the user if they have the file?

those would be cool

sam 

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Martin Pitt]

Mackenzie Morgan [2008-07-03 14:31 -0400]:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
> >> If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
> >> redistribute these files?
> >
> > That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.
> 
> And even then, that'd just give Canonical permission to redistribute
> them.  It wouldn't give us (the users who like to make copies of our
> Ubuntu CDs and hand them out) permission.

Well, of course I meant "for Ubuntu", i. e. permission to redistribute
the firmware freely (as in beer, and as in "no limits").

Martin
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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Martin Pitt]

Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:40 +0200]:
> We're already doing this with ATI and Nvidia drivers, and some wifi and  
> modem firmware.

Because, unlike the Broadcom firmware, nVidia and AMD grant free
redistributability for those.

Martin

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Bud Roth]

You've identified an issue regarding copies of Ubuntu CDs that, while a
valid concern, can be addressed.  (I'm a lawyer, not a developer, so
that's where my strengths and weaknesses fall.)  Broadcom wouldn't agree
to let Canonical distribute the network card driver with its CDs if
they--as you note--were uncomfortable with third parties making copies
of the Canonical CDs.  The question is how do you make them
comfortable.  

(Canonical actively encourages third parties to copy its CDs and
wouldn't want something in the CD that prevents this, so the freedom to
copy CDs needs to be protected too.)

If Canonical could get Broadcom to agree to let Canonical distribute the
drivers with the CD, your concern about third party copies can be
addressed in licensing language that made it clear that third parties
could copy the CD and distribute it with the driver so long as the third
party copier and "fourth party" recipient honored the distribution
agreement between Broadcom and Canonical.  This is not so different from
GNU conditions on incorporating GNU software into new products.

It's something to have your lawyers look at, but I suspect the real
problem is that Broadcom doesn't see a need to help Ubuntu users and/or
worries that "unlicensed" third party copies might water down their
legal arguments for going after driver reverse engineering.  That is
probably their real worry.  That someone will work the Broadcom driver
into a competitor's product.

Regards,

Bud
Virginia Ubuntu user


On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 21:57 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Mackenzie Morgan [2008-07-03 14:31 -0400]:
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Martin Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Przemysław Kulczycki [2008-07-03 20:14 +0200]:
> > >> If not, then maybe Canonical could ask Broadcom  for permission to
> > >> redistribute these files?
> > >
> > > That already happened many times, but fell on deaf ears unfortunately.
> > 
> > And even then, that'd just give Canonical permission to redistribute
> > them.  It wouldn't give us (the users who like to make copies of our
> > Ubuntu CDs and hand them out) permission.
> 
> Well, of course I meant "for Ubuntu", i. e. permission to redistribute
> the firmware freely (as in beer, and as in "no limits").
> 
> Martin
> -- 
> Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de
> Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer  (www.debian.org)
> 


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Packaging question

[Paul Gevers]

Hello,

[Not quite sure if this is the appropriate mail list, I was searching
for something like debian-mentors.]

I am working on packaging a GUI for ffmpeg called winff (see [1]). I
requested sponsorship for Debian [2][3] in the beginning of this week as
everything looks all right in Debian.

Now I try to make a package for Ubuntu, but I have a problem with the
following. This program is written in Free Pascal (Lazarus) and is
compiled with the following line:
/usr/lib/lazarus/lazbuild --widgetset=gtk2 -B winff.lpr
Unfortunately the widgetset is not compiled in the lazarus package (it
is in the current unstable distribution of Debian). Manually I can
compile the widgetset by running:
cd /usr/lib/lazarus/lcl/interfaces && make gtk2_units
but compiling during the automated process outside of the build tree is
not allowed. Does anybody know how I should handle this? Or which
mail-list is most appropriate to ask this question?

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/172804
[2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2008/06/msg00618.html
[3] http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2008/06/msg00624.html

With kind regards,
Paul







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Re: Packaging question

[Scott Kitterman]

On Thursday 03 July 2008 17:12, Paul Gevers wrote:
> Hello,
>
> [Not quite sure if this is the appropriate mail list, I was searching
> for something like debian-mentors.]

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu

Scott K

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Peteris Krisjanis]

Hi!

Just wanted to add my opinion about mystical reasons why companies
don't want allow us to use their hardware properly - I think all stuff
about back engineering is total bs. Competitors who actually can do
back engineering, already have huge labs, where all competitors
products are tested with their firmwares broken wide open. Sorry to
say that, but Broadcom and others just want to cover their asses
(suggested by lawyers), because it is their firmware and their
responsibility. For example, so called Broadcom firmware is borked on
Ubuntu CD, hardware doesn't work, users complain to Broadcom, suing
them, etc.

Say thanks to "US corporate thinking" that even remote legal issue
will be covered by company and therefore making simple things (like
distributing firmware which makes sold hardware to work) very complex.

Just two cents,
Peter.

2008/7/3 Bud Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> You've identified an issue regarding copies of Ubuntu CDs that, while a
> valid concern, can be addressed.  (I'm a lawyer, not a developer, so
> that's where my strengths and weaknesses fall.)  Broadcom wouldn't agree
> to let Canonical distribute the network card driver with its CDs if
> they--as you note--were uncomfortable with third parties making copies
> of the Canonical CDs.  The question is how do you make them
> comfortable.
>
> (Canonical actively encourages third parties to copy its CDs and
> wouldn't want something in the CD that prevents this, so the freedom to
> copy CDs needs to be protected too.)
>
> If Canonical could get Broadcom to agree to let Canonical distribute the
> drivers with the CD, your concern about third party copies can be
> addressed in licensing language that made it clear that third parties
> could copy the CD and distribute it with the driver so long as the third
> party copier and "fourth party" recipient honored the distribution
> agreement between Broadcom and Canonical.  This is not so different from
> GNU conditions on incorporating GNU software into new products.
>
> It's something to have your lawyers look at, but I suspect the real
> problem is that Broadcom doesn't see a need to help Ubuntu users and/or
> worries that "unlicensed" third party copies might water down their
> legal arguments for going after driver reverse engineering.  That is
> probably their real worry.  That someone will work the Broadcom driver
> into a competitor's product.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bud
> Virginia Ubuntu user
>

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Re: absurd: network connection required to obtain a network driver

[Mackenzie Morgan]

On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 20:58 +0200, Przemysław Kulczycki wrote:
> Also the same problem is for ndiswrapper - it's not on the cd even 
> though it's open source. 

I'm pretty sure ndiswrapper has been able to be installed using the CD
as a repo since Feisty at least.  It's not part of the default install,
but you can get it off the CD.

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apt-get moo


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