Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
> Maybe scrolling itself could be sacrificed. What if we use the scroll > wheel like this: when you scroll down, actual scrolling down will > start, and will increase in speed if you keep turning the wheel. It > will only slow down, and eventually stop if you scroll up again. The > same goes for scrolling in the upward direction. Sort of like the > middle-click scroll behaviour in Windows, only without the clicking, > and using the scroll wheel instead. > > Middle-click can then continue to be used like it is used now. > > Remco We should remember that not everybody has or uses a scroll wheel and that scroll wheels are an RSI nightmare. That said, I like this thought of yours. It would solve a bit of that RSI problem, although may not fit well with every wheel out there. Keep in mind that newer mice are removing the 'clickiness' and instead going with an approach where the wheel glides very smoothly. Thus, we get a similar effect happening in two places at once. Not that this is impossible, but it would need some fiddling˙ Speaking of repetitive strain, some of the comments to that blog post caused extended sessions of face-palming. There are two groups here I must single out: -Those who say touch screens are the future, thus this is irrelevant -Those who say scroll wheels are all people need, thus scrollbars should be abolished As well as what I just said, scroll wheels are also really not that commonly used amongst general users. I see many people using the scroll bar, just as only power users really use hotkeys. (Much to our horror when waiting for some peoples' workflow...). Touch screens, on the other hand, are begging for a feature like this. The fact is, our current interfaces have a lot of scrollbars. As anyone who has encountered HP's TouchSmart PCs will realize, beneath the shiny finger-friendly interface is the old fashioned mouse and keyboard interface. Yes, it uses scrollbars and small buttons. Those scrollbars are literally unusable; the targets at top and bottom are way too small for fingers. (Looking forward to that size by units patch for GTK!). This solves the issue by essentially raising the clickable area of the scrollbar to be the entire thing. While it does conceal that page up / down functionality, I think it is a worthy sacrifice for streamlining the rest. Having too many buttons in one place causes problems, hence the scrollbar's present sad state. Not that I mind the thought of kinetic scrolling in addition. I think we are in a neat spot for that, since GTK has always used a scroll area container. In theory, it could grab unhandled mouse events to do kinetic scrolling when the user clicks on the child window. (Which, if I recall correctly, is what Matchbox does for moving windows; it can be done when the user clicks anywhere within). Suffice it to say, scrolling is a big thing and it's great that we have such a flexible UI toolkit. It would be fun to put that flexibility to the test. Bye, -Dylan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 12:16 AM, vicho minkov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/8/15 Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> I remember if you clicked and held the center button/scroll >>> wheel on Windows you could drag the page around a bit as well, to keep >>> from having to go to the scrollbar. Can't figure out how to do that >>> on Ubuntu, but then I'd rather not sacrifice middle-click-to-paste >>> either. >> >> You may be right that middle-click-to-paste should not be sacrificed >> but I think this feature is REALLY helpful and should be available at >> least as an option in Ubuntu. :) >> Vicho Maybe scrolling itself could be sacrificed. What if we use the scroll wheel like this: when you scroll down, actual scrolling down will start, and will increase in speed if you keep turning the wheel. It will only slow down, and eventually stop if you scroll up again. The same goes for scrolling in the upward direction. Sort of like the middle-click scroll behaviour in Windows, only without the clicking, and using the scroll wheel instead. Middle-click can then continue to be used like it is used now. Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
2008/8/15 Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I remember if you clicked and held the center button/scroll >> wheel on Windows you could drag the page around a bit as well, to keep >> from having to go to the scrollbar. Can't figure out how to do that >> on Ubuntu, but then I'd rather not sacrifice middle-click-to-paste >> either. >> > > You may be right that middle-click-to-paste should not be sacrificed > but I think this feature is REALLY helpful and should be available at least > as an option in Ubuntu. :) > Vicho > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Odysseus Flappington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey, if it is actually even the tiniest bit more user-friendly that what we > currently have, which I have to admit I've been frustrated with before, > everyone will scream Ubuntu's innovation.. I must admit, on a large screen moving all the way from top to bottom of the scrollbar is a royal pain. I wouldn't mind having easier targets. I remember if you clicked and held the center button/scroll wheel on Windows you could drag the page around a bit as well, to keep from having to go to the scrollbar. Can't figure out how to do that on Ubuntu, but then I'd rather not sacrifice middle-click-to-paste either. -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
On Fri, 2008-08-15 at 15:01 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > It would be an interesting thing to test. I wonder how difficult it > would be to modify a few apps to use that method, so that we can try > it out and get our friends/family to try it out as well. I as the author would love to see that happening. Although I still haven't gotten around to finishing a modification where a click-hold will result in page-wise stepping. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Danny Piccirillo wrote on 14/08/08 00:18: >> >> "http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/popup-scrollbar-concept-demo/ >> >> This would just give Ubuntu more edge and make it even more >> intuitive. Although for people used to the old style >> scrollbar it may be confusing at first glance, it would >> quickly become another reason to get hooked on Ubuntu :)" >>... > > How do you know? Have you tested it? If so, on how many people? It would be an interesting thing to test. I wonder how difficult it would be to modify a few apps to use that method, so that we can try it out and get our friends/family to try it out as well. -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intuitive "Popup" Scrollbars
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Danny Piccirillo wrote on 14/08/08 00:18: > > "http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/popup-scrollbar-concept-demo/ > > This would just give Ubuntu more edge and make it even more > intuitive. Although for people used to the old style > scrollbar it may be confusing at first glance, it would > quickly become another reason to get hooked on Ubuntu :)" >... How do you know? Have you tested it? If so, on how many people? Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIpc/U6PUxNfU6ecoRAhKCAJ9dPNxwFZMqOxvxVhtQma8c/Df8ugCdE7gU +Gvdse+hAjayZ7Toc719q3E= =FejC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Call for testing empathy
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 05:25:05PM -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote: > Who makes the final call on the inclusion of Empathy in Intrepid? The desktop team, or if they can't decide, the technical board can help advise. > Where does that discussion happen? ubuntu-desktop@, #ubuntu-desktop, desktop team meetings, etc. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Call for testing empathy
Reasonably fair point. It's just that that WOULD have been Hardy if there wasn't a packaging oopsy wrt. connection manager dependencies. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: kernel module & python numpy
hi, On Do, 2008-08-07 at 20:17 +0100, richard wrote: > Hi Oli > I tried as you suggested, unfortunately it didn't help. thanks for the test though, at least we now know they are not the same issue :) ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
