Re: crash in bluetooth-properties
On 28/09/08 08:19, Eric Anopolsky wrote: > Hi, > > I'm getting a crash in an application installed by a package with this > email address listed as the maintainer, so here's my bug report. > > Using the bluetooth radio built into my laptop, pairing my mouse happens > without any issues. When I try to pair my keyboard, here's what happens > leading up to bluetooth-properties crashing. > This sounds like an issue I saw last month where the pass-phrase request times out - so if you type fast during pairing, it all works. -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: email clients (was Tablet PC under ubuntu)
Olá Vincenzo e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 21:13:43 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > overall integration (e.g. I right click on a folder in nautilus, > choose "send to" and send a zip file with the contents of the folder, > and my addressbook I would love to see this work between gnome and Kmail... -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: email clients (was Tablet PC under ubuntu)
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 20:57 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote: > > You really should give mutt a go. > It can even use offline cache is set for that. > > Easy to install, extremely powerful, and very light weight mutt, pine, thunderbird, a webmail client, emacs, ... when I actually switched to ubuntu, I tried to learn to stick with destkop defaults. I was used to configure fvwm macros by hand to play a nice looney tunes theme and then start snowing on christmas ... "when I was young" :) I used pine to read mail and I had an smtp server up and running on my laptop. But it was a pain to know when a mail had actually been sent in order to be sure that I could turn off the laptop. Using the ubuntu defaults, on one hand I get many benefits that come from overall integration (e.g. I right click on a folder in nautilus, choose "send to" and send a zip file with the contents of the folder, and my addressbook is used in the popup window that appears). Also, using the ubuntu defaults I can signal various problems of consistency and usability across the desktop and learn what is the user experience when they first install ubuntu. This helps me to decide in what cases I can advice ubuntu to people, and in what cases it's overkill. This attitude to "everybody's desktop is my desktop" indeed leads to frustration sometimes ;) (e.g. bug #38512) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: email clients (was Tablet PC under ubuntu)
Olá Vincenzo e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 19:11:10 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > Regarding disconnected imap... I use it regularly on other laptops, but > with this network broken iwl3945 connection it takes ages to check my > e-mail then (I have more or less a dozen of folders to check and > download for offline usage). You really should give mutt a go. It can even use offline cache is set for that. Easy to install, extremely powerful, and very light weight -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 13:46 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > Having a decent dvi viewer was one of the strong points when showing > > ubuntu to windows users in my department. Now will I show xdvi? And > what > > if my voice trembles when doing so? :) Notice that dvi is ONLY used > > because of inverse searches of latex code - or else pdf covers all > the > > needs of a latex user and is more widely supported. > > > > Vincenzo > > Did you try Okular? I was perhaps unclear: sorry for long reply but it's better to summarise everything. The situation with document viewers in ubuntu is as follows: 1) evince has a nasty bug with printing which prevents any serious usage in a scientific environment. I reported this one year ago https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/150187 nevertheless, evince does not support inverse searches in dvi files. 2) consequently, one has to resort to alternatives. A possibility is acrobat reader, but besides being non-free and heavy, it has NO way to reload a document. This makes it unconfortable to be used when texing. The other sane alternative is the kde document viewer. 3) Until intrepid, one had the choice between kpdf and kdvi. One used the former if only interested in being able to view, print and reload a document, the latter if also wanting "inverse search", a nice feature where you click on the dvi document and the editor (e.g. emacs or kile) goes to the source code. Very very useful when you typeset a paper. 4) In intrepid we have only one choice, which is okular - evince is ruled out for the printing bug, acroread because it can not reload documents. However, okular does NOT support inverse search, this breaks my workflow and that of many others https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegraphics/+bug/273018 5) As a solution, I think I will have to get back to dirty-hands-hackish-good-old-unix and re-learn xdvi. That's all, and the reply to your question is, of course I am using okular right now, it's opened and showing my Ph.D. thesis :) But it's not as useful and powerful as kdvi. And it's much slower, btw. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 18:49 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote: > > You really need a spelling corrector... > its the, not teh. > It is generally considered bad netiquette to point out grammar errors to others - especially sending a separate message for that I suppose. Anyways, intrepid is in alpha and gnome spell-checker cannot be changed now - applications deadlock. So my evolution spellchecker is in Italian, that is: everything is red right now :) This is why I don't use a spellchecker, thanks for recalling me to report this bug, this will help making ubuntu better. Regarding disconnected imap... I use it regularly on other laptops, but with this network broken iwl3945 connection it takes ages to check my e-mail then (I have more or less a dozen of folders to check and download for offline usage). Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: User Switcher, Shutdown Options, IM Status
Olá Ted e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 18:12:29 Ted Gould wrote: > It will report the most available of the two on the panel. Setting it > on the menu will set both to the same value. A problem? Perhaps. A > very minor use case, definitely. What should it do? (too late for > Intrepid, but we can talk for Jaunty) Thats easy then: For Jaunty, if FUSA detects more then one app that it needs to change the status, make a new side-drop pannel for each app, and set the status there. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
Olá Oliver e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 15:26:49 Oliver Grawert wrote: > teh You really need a spelling corrector... its the, not teh. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
Olá Vincenzo e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 16:43:16 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > this is because I use imap for the list, and my internet connection is slow, > so searches take huge amounts of time Why do you use dIMAP instead? Just yesterday I needed to search my entire archive, and it took me less than a minute. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu
On Monday 29 September 2008 13:18, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > On lun, 2008-09-29 at 13:00 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > It appears to be replaced by Okular in KDE4. As a core part of the > > kdegraphics package there's no way to keep a KDE3 application, so it's > > gone for good. > > This is another important feature dropped for ubuntu without being > noticed - just for the record. > > Having a decent dvi viewer was one of the strong points when showing > ubuntu to windows users in my department. Now will I show xdvi? And what > if my voice trembles when doing so? :) Notice that dvi is ONLY used > because of inverse searches of latex code - or else pdf covers all the > needs of a latex user and is more widely supported. > > Vincenzo Did you try Okular? Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: User Switcher, Shutdown Options, IM Status
On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 17:52 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q? (``-=5F-=B4=B4)_--_Fernando _ wrote: > Olá Mackenzie e a todos. > > On Monday 29 September 2008 01:55:08 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > > The only thing that really bugs me about it is > > that power-related options aren't shown (only logout/switch user) when > > you hit the power button and it's set on "ask me," but there are bugs > > about that filed already. > > Bugs me too. > Do you know the LP id? > I cant find it. 252795 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/252795 -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 13:00 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > It appears to be replaced by Okular in KDE4. As a core part of the > kdegraphics package there's no way to keep a KDE3 application, so it's gone > for good. > This is another important feature dropped for ubuntu without being noticed - just for the record. Having a decent dvi viewer was one of the strong points when showing ubuntu to windows users in my department. Now will I show xdvi? And what if my voice trembles when doing so? :) Notice that dvi is ONLY used because of inverse searches of latex code - or else pdf covers all the needs of a latex user and is more widely supported. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: User Switcher, Shutdown Options, IM Status
On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 21:07 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 20:44 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Przemysław Kulczycki > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Danny Piccirillo pisze: > > > > > I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring > this up or > > if there's > > > already an existing thread about it, but i don't > see why all > > the shutdown > > > options are now separated from the logout options > and in the > > users switcher > > > along with IM status changer even though the IM > client > > already has it's own > > > which is displayed in addition when it's running > anyways. > > I think the plan is for the FUSA to replace the Pidgin tray > icon and the > logout button, but I don't know for sure. Right now it's in > transition. > Might also be so that the battery icon's suspend/hibernate > functionality > can be removed (so unprivileged users can't suspend the system > from it). > Again, just speculating. The only thing that really bugs me > about it is > that power-related options aren't shown (only logout/switch > user) when > you hit the power button and it's set on "ask me," but there > are bugs > about that filed already. > > It does it to empathy as well as pidgin. What is someone for some > reason decided to use empathy for jabber and pidgin for aim and wanted > to set the statuses independently of one another. Wouldn't this thing > make that a problem? It will report the most available of the two on the panel. Setting it on the menu will set both to the same value. A problem? Perhaps. A very minor use case, definitely. What should it do? (too late for Intrepid, but we can talk for Jaunty) The goal is to start providing more core functionality in the panel itself instead of having applications provide it. The idea being that we can provide a better global experience if we can unify and consolidate actions into the panel rather than relying on each application to do it itself. --Ted -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: crash in bluetooth-properties
Olá Eric e a todos. On Sunday 28 September 2008 01:19:52 Eric Anopolsky wrote: > Hi, > > I'm getting a crash in an application installed by a package with this > email address listed as the maintainer, so here's my bug report. > > Cheers, > Eric > > P.S. > Please CC me in replies because I'm not on the list. Please you Launchpad[1] to file your bug. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu
On Monday 29 September 2008 10:24, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > I see kdvi is no longer part of ubuntu, however it was the only user > friendly viewer that supported inverse searches. How is one supposed to > work with latex and inverse searches in intrepid? I don't see any proper > way except perhaps for good old xdvi. Can kdvi be put back in intrepid? It appears to be replaced by Okular in KDE4. As a core part of the kdegraphics package there's no way to keep a KDE3 application, so it's gone for good. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: User Switcher, Shutdown Options, IM Status
Olá Danny e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 02:07:47 Danny Piccirillo wrote: > It does it to empathy as well as pidgin. What is someone for some reason > decided to use empathy for jabber and pidgin for aim and wanted to set the > statuses independently of one another. Wouldn't this thing make that a > problem? Yeah that had cross my mind, since I have both open at the same time. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: User Switcher, Shutdown Options, IM Status
Olá Mackenzie e a todos. On Monday 29 September 2008 01:55:08 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > The only thing that really bugs me about it is > that power-related options aren't shown (only logout/switch user) when > you hit the power button and it's set on "ask me," but there are bugs > about that filed already. Bugs me too. Do you know the LP id? I cant find it. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 16:39 +0200, Loïc Martin wrote: > > I'd tend to agree with you that pointing this in ubuntu-devel-discuss > is uterly useless, wether late in the development cycle or early, as > it > has proved for many releases. Bug reports in Launchpad have at least > contributed to Ubuntu's support for a few month in history (Feisty). > However, let's not forget tablet users have already been doing The > Right > Thing (launchpad bugs) for month. Before Hardy was even released. Let's support this with an URL: the issue I raised is this bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/188787 that exists since february because people was testing hardy and reporting bugs in time. Here is a patch that would have worked for autodetection in hardy (but not in intrepid, because nobody - at least not me - expected the worse that is going to happen) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/188787/comments/21 To tell the truth, Bryce Harrington had already proposed the same patch in another bug (the one that lead to the decision to remove wacom configuration from default xorg.conf). The discussion ended there, with thre persons testing the workaround in my ppa, with mixed success as you can see: nobody in ubuntu(/canonical?) was EVER INTERESTED in that bug report, it seems. As I said in my first post of today, I don't know the new xorg infrastructure, that's why I had to raise the issue here or else I would have reported as a bug, as I did in a couple of other occasions :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
> 1) I didn't expect that tablet support in intrepid was going to be > SILENTLY DROPPED or else I would have spoken earlier It's funny but I watched as Graphic Tablet support was silently dropped from Hardy because of a KDE wishlist bug. "Oh noes! my kde is creating warnings about missing tablet hardware! BooHoo!" But when you did a little deeper and have a nice chat with Bryce, you figure out that so much of the xorg project needs to be unravelled. Just so it can be fixed in some very key areas. This means breaking hardware support for input devices, mice and keybs where sorted early on, but touch devices often need special drivers, some hal fdi or udi funny business. To be honest I don't think xorg was cut out for loading hardware drivers on the fly. So, at the moment I class the lack of support as: "Removed the brutish hack, steady as she goes for support in the future". Obviously communication is still a big issue in the ubuntu development community. Having a lot of users puts developers in a very special responsibility to communicate every move. Especially when they're trying to degrade the functionality gracefully for architectural reasons. Although something they don't teach in CS classes is "Making sure the users are onboad". Regards, Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 16:13 +0200, Sebastian Breier wrote: > > > I don't want to sound overly negative, but why are You bringing this > up > now? We're 5 of 6 months into development, behind feature freeze, > behind > beta freeze. Changing XOrg for tablet users may break many things for > others, and is a task that will pull enormous developer time at this point. > Now if you took the responsibility to accuse me, I think it's in my right to ask you to read the full story that I present below. Thank you. I don't want to sound like, how to say it, ironic, dunno, but why did NOBODY tell that support for tablets was going to be dropped from ubuntu on this list before _I_ did? I am not a developer. The same happened when support by default was removed from xorg.conf. Nobody discussed it before. No alternative solution was proposed. This makes no sense. I perfectly accept if nobody has time to implement a proposal, but doing things in silence is not what I expect from a free software community. In any case, you are plain wrong in what you say above, because I pointed the issue of configuring wacom in this list so many times that I am sick of it - to tell the truth I only experienced a general lack of interest in tablets, in response. Search the list for my messages and you will see I raised exactly this issue in april, when I pointed out that wacom support by-default had been dropped silently without discussion on a possible solution. Then I was told that a discussion had to happen at next UDS (intrepid had just been annunced at the times). I think I also asked for the results of this discussion but don't remember what reply I got and don't have the time to search (this is because I use imap for the list, and my internet connection is slow, so searches take huge amounts of time, and my connection is slow because the iwl3945 driver sucks - in hardy, too - and nobody cared since the last "LTS" was released, and this is another issue and let's get back to the main track). The tablet would have worked out of the box in dapper, three years ago, if not for bugs in wacom tools. These bugs where fixed, but at the same time support was dropped in xorg.conf. So the tablet didn't work out of the box again. This was discussed on this list in april without any solution coming up except for "the perfect solution is autodetection, we can do this in time for intrepid, and we don't want any temporary solution meanwhile, just wait 6 months and everything will be fine". I then PROVIDED A SMALL PATCH against dexconf that alters xorg.conf ONLY IF /dev/input/wacom is present, and everybody told me it was unuseful because HOTPLUGGING IS THE FUTURE. Now I am welcome to the future... a future where I have to change distribution. After having convinced more or less 20 people to switch to ubuntu (even from OSX !!!) and having installed ubuntu on my mother's desktop. When I tested intrepid, I saw that manual editing of xorg.conf was more difficult than with previous releases, and asked (today) on the mailing list for clarification. My tablet was broken and I recovered it one week ago. The first thing I did when I had the machine back was to check all the bugs I ever reported against it. This is BECAUSE I CARE(D) for ubuntu and free software, I CARE(D) a lot. And TODAY I discovered that tablet support is going to be dropped for 6 months, 6 months in which NO tablet WILL work with ubuntu. Now if you don't have a tablet I understand this is not shocking for you. For me is like a cold shower in a winter day. My laptop was out for assistance and you can't imagine how I was waiting for it JUST FOR THE SAKE of reporting a bug to xorg developers regarding my vga out, which worked in previous releases of ubuntu but not from feisty on. I was waiting with excitement just to waste an afternoon testing various configuration, git master driver for my card, rebooting because kernel hangs during testing and so on, just because I felt like a duty to report bugs correctly as the xorg team asked to me. Summarising: 1) I didn't expect that tablet support in intrepid was going to be SILENTLY DROPPED or else I would have spoken earlier 2) you cannot say it's MY fault if this decision was taken without any public discussion, at least here on this mailing list which I follow just to be able to comment ON TIME when major changes happen that might damage my everyday work 3) Nevertheless, I actually _spoke earlier_ - in april - but nothing happened because the developers have other priorities. That's ok: the current situation is hackish but acceptable and I could wait 6 months with a manually edited xorg.conf. Removing support without even making a poll is childish and I just can't accept it without at least asking for explanation. Hope not to cause too much hate, I realise stones are there on the floor and I am not moving. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
Am 29.09.2008 um 16:39 schrieb Loïc Martin: > I'd tend to agree with you that pointing this in ubuntu-devel-discuss > is uterly useless, [...]. Bug reports in Launchpad [...] You need both. Bug report(s) for documenting and tracking the technical issues as well as a post to the mailing list as a heads-up to the interested folks and to discuss the broader topic. Ideally, you add a bug link to the latter. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
Sebastian Breier a écrit : > I don't want to sound overly negative, but why are You bringing this up > now? We're 5 of 6 months into development, behind feature freeze, behind > beta freeze. Changing XOrg for tablet users may break many things for > others, and is a task that will pull enormous developer time at this > point. > > Don't misunderstand me, while I'm no tablet PC owner/user, I would very > much like to see Ubuntu 8.10 on these. I just want You to understand > that it's *very* late, maybe too late, to get it done. I'd tend to agree with you that pointing this in ubuntu-devel-discuss is uterly useless, wether late in the development cycle or early, as it has proved for many releases. Bug reports in Launchpad have at least contributed to Ubuntu's support for a few month in history (Feisty). However, let's not forget tablet users have already been doing The Right Thing (launchpad bugs) for month. Before Hardy was even released. As you said, we're 5 of 6 month in Intrepid development. Cheers, Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
hi, On Mo, 2008-09-29 at 16:10 +0200, Loïc Martin wrote: > May I know where the call was sent (and where future calls/informations > might be sent), since I've been monitoring it was sent to ubuntu-devel on august 19th [1], though it was focused on evtouch specifically, i also mentioned it on my last blog post on planet.ubuntu.com, i saw that there were wacom .fdi files when i looked so was thinking someone already took care of these devices, lets see that we get it working in jaunty and probably backport and SRU at least some preconfigured .fdi files for some general setup so we have something basically working ... if it doesnt yet ... the fact that all input devices are handled by hal with xorg 1.5 was made public quite a while ago upstream, was discussed at the last UDS in some BOFs and there are a bunch of specs for it. i wasnt affiliated wit teh mobile team back then and could for teh above reasons only take care for teh devices i have my hands on, lets just see that we get a better community involvement in jaunty ... ciao oli [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/026127.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
No inverse searches for dvi files in ubuntu
I see kdvi is no longer part of ubuntu, however it was the only user friendly viewer that supported inverse searches. How is one supposed to work with latex and inverse searches in intrepid? I don't see any proper way except perhaps for good old xdvi. Can kdvi be put back in intrepid? Vincenzo Ciancia -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
Am Montag, den 29.09.2008, 16:06 +0200 schrieb Vincenzo Ciancia: > On lun, 2008-09-29 at 15:43 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote: > > there will surely be ways to have > > SRUs for intrepid, especially if it comes to hardware support these > > are > > desired, but the core focus in the mobile will be to get all > > touchscreens and tablets fixed and with proper gui calibration tools > > in > > jaunty, not intrepid > > Developers please, please please read this, it's not polemic, it's > desperate: > > Now my tablet PC is working with the hacked xorg.conf I posted. I don't > really want to struggle to leave things as they are: if there will be no > way to configure a tablet pc in intrepid I will have no possibility to > escape. I repeat that many bugs related to my hardware have been fixed > in intrepid so it makes no sense to drop support to the most important > one: the tablet. I don't want to sound overly negative, but why are You bringing this up now? We're 5 of 6 months into development, behind feature freeze, behind beta freeze. Changing XOrg for tablet users may break many things for others, and is a task that will pull enormous developer time at this point. Don't misunderstand me, while I'm no tablet PC owner/user, I would very much like to see Ubuntu 8.10 on these. I just want You to understand that it's *very* late, maybe too late, to get it done. Of course, this does not mean we have to stop doing something about it. :-) Greets, Sebastian Breier. signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
Oliver Grawert a écrit : > hi, > On Mo, 2008-09-29 at 15:20 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: >> Sorry if I misunderstand but does this mean that my tablet will not work >> in intrepid but only in intrepit+1? If so what should I do in the >> meantime? Many bugs related to the tablet have ***finally*** been solved >> in intrepid after two or three releases of waiting so using hardy is a >> very poor alternative. Please leave a "backdoor" in this killing machine >> to make my humble xorg.conf work :) > i have no idea how well wacom works currently in intrepid (i own several > touchscreen devices and know they suck, but dont have a wacom around. i > saw there were some attempts to create the necessary .fdi files for hal > to make them work basically but i doubt there will be much opprtunity fo > fine tuning and calibration yet) > > it is an upstream decision of the xorg deveolpers at freedesktop.org to > fully switch to hal-input and away from xorg.conf configuration, ubuntu > can only try to fix the issues at the distro side, when i sent out a > call for lshal output for touchscreens known to work in hardy to > assemble the proper hal configs for intrepid i got zero response, when i > relesed the ubuntu-mobile image a week ago [1] that generated a > landslide of feedback suddenly, though since i only have feedback on > evtouch devces yet and beta is due on thursday i dont see a way to > support more than evtouch for now ... there will surely be ways to have > SRUs for intrepid, especially if it comes to hardware support these are > desired, but the core focus in the mobile will be to get all > touchscreens and tablets fixed and with proper gui calibration tools in > jaunty, not intrepid, since chances are higher that we get feedback and > community participation for that. > > ciao > oli > > [1] > http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/announcing-the-first-ubuntu-mobile-image/ > > May I know where the call was sent (and where future calls/informations might be sent), since I've been monitoring https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/212737 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/188787 , along with ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-users (with filters to separate wacom related emails to a special folder (since Hoary in the case of the mailing lists)? I failed to see on the Ubuntu site that the changes of xorg.conf would break tablet support in Hardy (nor any documentation about the need to edit xorg.conf from Feisty to Gutsy). (I'm on Intrepid x86_64 and I've got both an Intuos 3 and a Cintiq 12wx, and also maintained https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom till I wasn't able to offer any more help). Cheers, Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu - a call to xorg and ubuntu developers
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 15:43 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote: > there will surely be ways to have > SRUs for intrepid, especially if it comes to hardware support these > are > desired, but the core focus in the mobile will be to get all > touchscreens and tablets fixed and with proper gui calibration tools > in > jaunty, not intrepid Developers please, please please read this, it's not polemic, it's desperate: Now my tablet PC is working with the hacked xorg.conf I posted. I don't really want to struggle to leave things as they are: if there will be no way to configure a tablet pc in intrepid I will have no possibility to escape. I repeat that many bugs related to my hardware have been fixed in intrepid so it makes no sense to drop support to the most important one: the tablet. Some ubuntu developers MUST be worried about this and be able to impose a transition period over this idea of xorg developers. I just cannot accept that after two years of convincing people to switch to ubuntu I will not be able to use it. One thing is to fight for a cause, another thing is to fight for no reason. I don't want to fight. Please let us a choice - backport patches that allow to use xorg.conf as it is - or provide a detailed information on how to REBUILD our configuration with fdi files, I mean all the tree buttons and pressure sensitivity. It is not acceptable to give a kick in the a** of every tablet PC user who dared to switch permanently to ubuntu: I CANNOT return to windows because I used xournal for my notes. Should we call this "vendor lock in?". I don't WANT TO. I actually contributed to xournal in ubuntu some times. I did that because I BELIEVED in ubuntu and was the only one caring to maintain xournal at the time. So now please DON'T leave me alone, please DON'T ignore the situation. Please let's all find a solution. I have a tablet and WILL spend my free time to test anything you please but intrepid must support tablet PCs - I do NOT mean autoconfiguration - I mean whatever hack it is but let me the possibility to use my hardware. Don't tell me to wait 6 months once more. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit : > Hi, as an user of a tablet pc under ubuntu, I have to say that this > distribution can work very well with tablet pcs. Cellwriter and xournal > are already there and they are very good. > > The only problem is that currently in both hardy and intrepid tablet > activation requires manual intervention on the xorg.conf file. This is > particularly bad as intrepid is supposed to hotplug devices, but for > tablet pcs you never plug anything in, so I suppose this is the reason > why I still have to manually edit xorg.conf. It's not really because you use a tablet PC, plugging a tablet (for example Inutos 3, Cintiq...) won't work in Intrepid either, I tested that already. If I remember correctly, basically tablets were supported in Feisty, dot. Then support was removed without any warning for the users (what's the use of a changelog?) which is very, very amateurish, and a slap in the face to all the users that had put efforts in solving the bug for Feisty. They could have been easily warned (if not offered a solution) by reopening the bug in launchpad and dropping a short note. Gutsy had the lines commented out, Hardy had nothing at all in xorg, and the situation is the same with Intrepid. Hotplugging doesn't makes it work magically, the distribution (or the user in the case of Ubuntu) has to configure the devices. > In the current situation it is unclear to me what should work and what > not, and how input hotplugging is supposed to work, so I don't even know > which bugs to report. The new X architecture constrained me to do > guessworking on how the xorg.conf file is structured (keyboard and mouse > are no longer there). Copying an old file from previous releases didn't > well. It's the same for most (all?) users - since Hardy we haven't been able to find much of a solution. The Linuxwacom documentation assumes you have a traditionnal xorg.conf, which isn't the case anymore since 8.04. Something must have changed, because copy/pasting doesn't work. We (users) maintained a community documentation at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wacom , however since Hardy I can confirm none of the steps advertised works anymore. Since we didn't find a solution (except going back to Gutsy when using the tablet) that doesn't require the user to download the drivers and recompile them, the Hardy section isn't relevant. Same goes for Intrepid unless somebody explains us in understandable terms what has changed between Gutsy and Hardy (and Intrepid?). The other pages I found for tablets in Ubuntu are in the same situation, basically they're no use for an Hardy install from scratch. Cheers, Loïc -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
hi, On Mo, 2008-09-29 at 15:20 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > Sorry if I misunderstand but does this mean that my tablet will not work > in intrepid but only in intrepit+1? If so what should I do in the > meantime? Many bugs related to the tablet have ***finally*** been solved > in intrepid after two or three releases of waiting so using hardy is a > very poor alternative. Please leave a "backdoor" in this killing machine > to make my humble xorg.conf work :) i have no idea how well wacom works currently in intrepid (i own several touchscreen devices and know they suck, but dont have a wacom around. i saw there were some attempts to create the necessary .fdi files for hal to make them work basically but i doubt there will be much opprtunity fo fine tuning and calibration yet) it is an upstream decision of the xorg deveolpers at freedesktop.org to fully switch to hal-input and away from xorg.conf configuration, ubuntu can only try to fix the issues at the distro side, when i sent out a call for lshal output for touchscreens known to work in hardy to assemble the proper hal configs for intrepid i got zero response, when i relesed the ubuntu-mobile image a week ago [1] that generated a landslide of feedback suddenly, though since i only have feedback on evtouch devces yet and beta is due on thursday i dont see a way to support more than evtouch for now ... there will surely be ways to have SRUs for intrepid, especially if it comes to hardware support these are desired, but the core focus in the mobile will be to get all touchscreens and tablets fixed and with proper gui calibration tools in jaunty, not intrepid, since chances are higher that we get feedback and community participation for that. ciao oli [1] http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/announcing-the-first-ubuntu-mobile-image/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
On lun, 2008-09-29 at 14:42 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote: > > > The only problem is that currently in both hardy and intrepid tablet > > activation requires manual intervention on the xorg.conf file. > that wont really work in intrepid anymore as all input devices are > supposed to be handled by hal now. i made some progress on teh evtouch > driver and will try to extend that for jaunty over all touchscreen and > probably also tablet devices, see teh mobile team spec suggestion page > [1], if i have a template spec ready for UDS discussion it will be > noticed there and will need a lot input from device owners :) > Sorry if I misunderstand but does this mean that my tablet will not work in intrepid but only in intrepit+1? If so what should I do in the meantime? Many bugs related to the tablet have ***finally*** been solved in intrepid after two or three releases of waiting so using hardy is a very poor alternative. Please leave a "backdoor" in this killing machine to make my humble xorg.conf work :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
build custom kernel with xen and rt flavour
Hello, I want to compile a custom kernel on Ubuntu 8.04 (2.6.24) with both Xen-Domain0 support and the real-time preempt patches with the new "debian way", because it seems to be the only way to get Domain0 support in a custom kernel. For building the kernel I am using the instructions given on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile. So I have downloaded the kernel sources with $ sudo apt-get build-dep linux-image-$(uname -r) To choose Xen Domain0 support, I have to run $ AUTOBUILD=1 NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-xen But with choosing the xen flavour, the rt-preempt patches are not included and something like $ AUTOBUILD=1 NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-xen custom-binary-rt fails. Is there any possibility to build a custom kernel with both, xen and rt flavours? Thank you in advance. Regards, Thomas -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Tablet PC under ubuntu
hi, On Mo, 2008-09-29 at 14:16 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > Hi, as an user of a tablet pc under ubuntu, I have to say that this > distribution can work very well with tablet pcs. Cellwriter and xournal > are already there and they are very good. > > The only problem is that currently in both hardy and intrepid tablet > activation requires manual intervention on the xorg.conf file. that wont really work in intrepid anymore as all input devices are supposed to be handled by hal now. i made some progress on teh evtouch driver and will try to extend that for jaunty over all touchscreen and probably also tablet devices, see teh mobile team spec suggestion page [1], if i have a template spec ready for UDS discussion it will be noticed there and will need a lot input from device owners :) ciao oli [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Tablet PC under ubuntu
Hi, as an user of a tablet pc under ubuntu, I have to say that this distribution can work very well with tablet pcs. Cellwriter and xournal are already there and they are very good. The only problem is that currently in both hardy and intrepid tablet activation requires manual intervention on the xorg.conf file. This is particularly bad as intrepid is supposed to hotplug devices, but for tablet pcs you never plug anything in, so I suppose this is the reason why I still have to manually edit xorg.conf. In the current situation it is unclear to me what should work and what not, and how input hotplugging is supposed to work, so I don't even know which bugs to report. The new X architecture constrained me to do guessworking on how the xorg.conf file is structured (keyboard and mouse are no longer there). Copying an old file from previous releases didn't well. What I had to do was very counterintuitive to me: I added three "InputDevice" sections to xorg.conf as usual, and then a ServerLayout like the following one Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "stylus""SendCoreEvents" InputDevice "cursor""SendCoreEvents" InputDevice "eraser""SendCoreEvents" EndSection where I don't specify mouse and keyboard. As I see it, if I specify a serverlayout then I also specify mouse and keyboard. If I don't specify it, then the server makes a choice for me. The above mixture is not so coherent however it works. I attach my full xorg.conf (toshiba tablet m400) for further reference. Old releases of ubuntu had tablet input pre-configured in xorg, this was removed without too much discussion I think one year ago, for good reasons but without identifying an alternative (for example, a checkbox in the mouse preference to activate the tablet). What is the current status and the current plan to enable tablet pcs to work with ubuntu? Notice that the required effort may be really minimal and the overall image gain of ubuntu high. Other distributions such as suse already support tablet pcs by default. Vincenzo Ciancia # xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file) # # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using # values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) # # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg # package. # # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated # again, run the following command: # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg Section "Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" Device "Configured Video Device" # SubSection "Display" # Virtual 2800 1050 # EndSubSection EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "wacom" Identifier "stylus" Option "Device""/dev/input/wacom" Option "Type" "stylus" Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY Option"Button2" "3" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "wacom" Identifier "eraser" Option "Device""/dev/input/wacom" Option "Type" "eraser" Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "wacom" Identifier "cursor" Option "Device""/dev/input/wacom" Option "Type" "cursor" Option "ForceDevice" "ISDV4" # Tablet PC ONLY Option"Button1" "2" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "stylus""SendCoreEvents" InputDevice "cursor""SendCoreEvents" InputDevice "eraser""SendCoreEvents" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" EndSection -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
