Re: Remove F-Spot from the LiveCD
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sense Hofstede wrote on 22/06/09 15:26: ... Including more Mono applications would justify placing Mono on the LiveCD, but we should ask ourselves what's more important: supporting Mono applications on the LiveCD or offering proper localisation support on the LiveCD. Supporting Mono applications on the live CD is not important. Including F-Spot on the live CD is important. Including Banshee on the live CD is also important. If you want to propose a change to what's included on the CD, you need to make that proposal precise. For example: We should remove application X and instead ship language packs Y and Z, because more potential Ubuntu users are deterred by the lack of those language packs than are attracted to it by the presence of X. Preferably backed up by measurements of how much space the various packages take up, and how many people are fluent in those languages but not in English. The greater the scope of a change, the more difficult it would be to get people to agree with it. For example, We should replace Tomboy with GNote, and replace F-Spot with Solang, and cancel our plan to replace Rhythmbox with Banshee, and instead ship language packs A, B, C, D, and E is complicated and therefore less likely to be approved (even if Solang was a mature application). This is not special-casing Mono; a similar situation applies to xulrunner, which takes up a chunk of space on the CD where WebKit could theoretically perform the same roles. The problem that the boot menu seems to falsely promise full multi-language support is a critical one. ... I agree, but you're most likely to help fix it if you change the way you're going about it. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpA00AACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpnwgCfcaVo1fjM9Fna46Y+nH504GHe 08IAnAuny2/TuDftSJ1czXnh1Biv/CYx =8Ryh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Il giorno lun, 22/06/2009 alle 19.04 +0100, Andrew Sayers ha scritto: The plan is to make sure that these bugs are all fixed in time for Karmic, but what's the backup plan if there are still showstoppers when the release starts to get closer? More precisely, when, where and how should people speak up if Empathy still has showstopping bugs? The usual backup plan in ubuntu is: ignore the problem early, because we have time, and ignore the problem later, because we are late :) Please take this with a bit of irony, but isn't this happening again? For how much I personally hate anything starting with MS including the cigarettes :P the MSN protocol is a must work thing. If it does not work, pidgin should remain the default. One thing is to push usage of the new one, to receive more feedback and be encouraged to work on it, one other thing is to release broken things, which causes laughters in undecided users who could even switch back to windows. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replace Tomboy with Gnote?
Il giorno dom, 21/06/2009 alle 19.17 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto: Yeah uh...it isn't real LaTeX. Take the source you can view in LyX, save it, and run it through the latex command and watch it fail utterly. Could you provide an example file? I usually cut and paste tables from lyx instead of doing them by hand. Where usually means for the 5-6 tables I have done in my whole life :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replace Tomboy with Gnote?
On Tuesday 23 June 2009 10:37:15 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: Il giorno dom, 21/06/2009 alle 19.17 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto: Yeah uh...it isn't real LaTeX. Take the source you can view in LyX, save it, and run it through the latex command and watch it fail utterly. Could you provide an example file? I usually cut and paste tables from lyx instead of doing them by hand. Where usually means for the 5-6 tables I have done in my whole life :) I don't use LyX myself. Ran into this when my last roommate tried it. I think the commands it used at the top were non-standard ones or something. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replace Tomboy with Gnote?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Mackenzie Morganmaco...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 23 June 2009 10:37:15 am Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: Il giorno dom, 21/06/2009 alle 19.17 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan ha scritto: Yeah uh...it isn't real LaTeX. Take the source you can view in LyX, save it, and run it through the latex command and watch it fail utterly. Could you provide an example file? I usually cut and paste tables from lyx instead of doing them by hand. Where usually means for the 5-6 tables I have done in my whole life :) I don't use LyX myself. Ran into this when my last roommate tried it. I think the commands it used at the top were non-standard ones or something. Isn't this getting too of-topic ? As cool as lyx is, it is not written in mono and depends on a tex system which makes it a bad candidate for the live-cd :/ BTW, .lyx files are not .tex files even if some parts are similar. Lyx translates them into latex before doing anything else. Thus lyx is needed to edit/compile .lyx files but they can be exported into normal tex if you need to share them with non-lyx-users. Best regards. -- Aurélien Naldi -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: gparted, ubiquity and other packages left behind by karmic a2 installer
I also saw this issue earlier today, after installing from the Karmic 64 LiveCD (used USB creator, so it was actually LiveUSB). Here's a bug report for the crashing in LiveCD phenomenon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/391162 -Asif On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Nathan Dorfmann...@rtfm.net wrote: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Evan Dandreaev...@ubuntu.com wrote: No, I just tested this myself and was unable to reproduce the behavior you experienced. Are you sure the installation did not crash near the end, and enough of the system was in place to allow you to boot? You would not have seen the installation finished dialog, if this were the case. I'm pretty sure. The installer did hang at the end, as predicted in the Alpha 2 known issues document; this was at the shutdown stage, however, after the installation had completed. One thing that I failed to mention is that this is the amd64 Live CD, not the i386 or alternate install CD. I'll test it again with a fresh install and let you know. -ND -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Andrew Sayersandrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org wrote: There's currently a big push to make Empathy the default IM client in Karmic, even though the version in Jaunty still has grave issues - for example, MSN doesn't work at all for me[1]. I'm assuming there will be a lot of upstream resources going into this as it seems to be the big issue preventing Empathy from being fairly feature complete for average use (along with maybe OTR) compared to Pidgin. The plan is to make sure that these bugs are all fixed in time for Karmic, but what's the backup plan if there are still showstoppers when the release starts to get closer? More precisely, when, where and how should people speak up if Empathy still has showstopping bugs? Well, people should just be filing bugs. As the Desktop Team tracks the bugs that are coming in they can milestone them, push them upstream, and get a general overview of Empathy's suitability as default. I believe the spec calls for the final evaluation at Feature Freeze (August 27th). My guess would be that Empathy makes it. Being promoted to the default Ubuntu app would be quite motivating to developers I'd think and they want to make a good impression. Obviously it would be undesirable to try retrofitting Pidgin back in after the feature freeze, but I could see arguments for requiring notification earlier (default apps need more time) or later (Pidgin's already been well tested). Feature Freeze is the defining milestone for this sort of thing in Ubuntu. Putting Pidgin back in would be a very easy thing to do since it's already default and it's going to be removed from Ubuntu altogether or anything like that. It should be just a s/empathy/pidgin/ in the desktop seed. -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
[CC-ing ayatana, if this is wrong just tell me] Today I tried empathy on my karmic testing system. Here are the scores. The last part IS VERY IMPORTANT please read it too. Don't thake my comments as angry, I'm just in a hurry. +1 The first time I launch it, it offers me to import accounts from pidgin. Very good -1 It crashes immediately later 0 I restart it and it does not crash, so that I can't report it -1 It does not allow me to open any kind of chat, it says something related to EMPATHY_IS_CONTACT(contact) failed +1 I close it, reopen, and it starts working. This should be 0, as it is already supposed to work, but I want to be nice on it. -1 I receive a notification that the IRC bot has recognised me. Please find a way to avoid this! Pidgin has a couple of plugins to handle the rough corners of IRC and at least identification MUST be done properly (it should not need any plugin in principle). THE IMPORTANT PART -1 It flashes the notification area. THIS IS FORBIDDEN. Update notifier can not do that. Why should empathy do that? This must be fixed. -1 It does NOT OPEN A POPUP on new messages. When the infamous update-notifier popup was decided, it was argued that pidgin already did that. I am a pop-up hater and the IM client is the only exception. In fact, for IM a pop-up may be desired. This is because if I start the IM client chances are I *want* to be disturbed and if a contact calls me I *want* to interact immediately. So ehm, I know it should not come from me but can we have the popup back? The last 2 behaviours SHOULD BE opt-in for those who love them, of course. TOTAL SCORE: -3 it can do better with very little effort :) Now testing it properly and will report bugs. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
you should use git master before giving points ;) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
Nicolò Chieffo wrote: you should use git master before giving points ;) Could you give us some idea of when a testable version will land in Karmic? We've got two months left until the final decision on whether this becomes as significant a part of Ubuntu as Firefox or OpenOffice, so it would be nice to have more than a few weeks of testing by people who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
2009/6/23 Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org Nicolò Chieffo wrote: you should use git master before giving points ;) Could you give us some idea of when a testable version will land in Karmic? We've got two months left until the final decision on whether this becomes as significant a part of Ubuntu as Firefox or OpenOffice, so it would be nice to have more than a few weeks of testing by people who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. Yes, please. I am running it currently in both Jaunty and in Karmic alpha 2. Is there any point in doing so? I prefer Pidgin (festival plugin is hilarious). Anzan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Andrew Sayersandrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org wrote: who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. you are definitely right, anyway now empathy is actively developed, and the only way to test it is git -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Yes, people should be filing bugs. Or they might be like me -- I had a two hour long conversation with a colleague, and *expected* that the conversation would be logged -- lo and behold, only the last 15 minutes or so of the conversation ended up being logged, and I lost a good deal of valuable conversation. I wouldn't know where to start troubleshooting this bug, especially since I don't really feel like copying and pasting lines of conversation every few minutes to a text editor because I don't have basic trust in the IM app. It's one thing to have usability flaws, or have video not working, or etc. -- but to not have logging working perfectly in an app that is supposed to be replacing a very mature app? It's horrifying, but it's exactly something that Ubuntu seems to have no problem with. I for one, was testing Empathy, but it's clearly not even close to ready for me, and I will be going back to Pidgin -- I just hope that the other testers will not be equally frustrated, since that will end up making the release even more half baked, since we'll all assume that there are few problems - when in reality, problems aren't being discovered because the app is so immature. It's not as if the app has been in universe for a cycle, and is now being promoted to main and chosen as default -- it was hard to get it going in Jaunty, and it clearly doesn't have a whole lot of exposure to the community. Really though -- basic logging not working -- how many other weird bugs are in there? :( -Asif On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Jordan Manthalaserj...@ubuntu.com wrote: Well, people should just be filing bugs. As the Desktop Team tracks the bugs that are coming in they can milestone them, push them upstream, and get a general overview of Empathy's suitability as default. I believe the spec calls for the final evaluation at Feature Freeze (August 27th). My guess would be that Empathy makes it. Being promoted to the default Ubuntu app would be quite motivating to developers I'd think and they want to make a good impression. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On mar, 2009-06-23 at 18:04 +0200, Nicolò Chieffo wrote: Sayersandrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org wrote: who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. you are definitely right, anyway now empathy is actively developed, and the only way to test it is git Nah. I already wast enough resources to test karmic. If you want me to test empathy you have at least to provide a ppa whose code is guaranteed to land in ubuntu soon or later. Not to be polemic at all, I just want to pose a limit on how much energy I donate to ubuntu :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On mar, 2009-06-23 at 16:58 +0100, Andrew Sayers wrote: Could you give us some idea of when a testable version will land in Karmic? We've got two months left until the final decision on whether this becomes as significant a part of Ubuntu as Firefox or OpenOffice, so it would be nice to have more than a few weeks of testing by people who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. You are being utopistic. The decision has already been taken. I would not bet a cent on the possiblity that empathy does not become default even if as broken as it is right now. This is why I ran to testing as early as possible. I would love if programs that we test during alphas could be declared not ready but I NEVER saw ubuntu going back. The only decision I saw going back was the re-introduction of kdvi in jaunty, which was then removed at a very late time before release without leaving time to test the feature addition to okular that *supposedly* would have let it replace kdvi. From that date, I learned not to hope in such an obvious thing as let's try it, as we are testers, and then decide. If you try it, you buy it. If someone wants to prove me wrong, a good way would be to fix a set of target features and bugs for empathy and guarantee to us all that if such a minimum quality standard is not met then empathy will be dropped for karmic. Please don't pollute the list by posting angry replies to this. You are free to do so, but first, read: I love ubuntu and am doing as much as I can for it. Above I am a bit polemic but I think I am telling the truth. If I am wrong, glad to be corrected and to note the eventual information sources that I do not know right now. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
This argument must have been had before, but recent events have prompted me to suggest it anyway: The submit statistical information page in System Administration Software Sources Statistics should be presented during the installation process. The box should be checked by default in pre-RC versions of Ubuntu, and unchecked in stable versions. This would enable or disable the Ubuntu Popularity Contest (popcon.ubuntu.com), which is currently installed but disabled by default. This would allow us to make decisions based on far better information, such as: * Calculating a precise trade-off between number of users and number of bytes, to help decide which programs go on the CD * Checking whether applications aren't getting bug reports because they don't have bugs or because people aren't using them * Spotting sudden spikes or drops in program usage that suggest a bug has been introduced (or give hints as to the seriousness of a bug) * Testing whether ordinary users are going out of their way (not) to use a particular program It's not currently possible to make strong claims based on popcon data, because only a small number of people bother to hunt it out and check the box. This is a self-reinforcing problem: why should I bother if the data is worthless anyway? It strikes me as reasonable to enable this by default in pre-RC versions (why are you running alpha/beta software if not to give feedback?), and reasonable to at least ask in final versions (even the laziest user is enabled to make his or her individual contribution). If just 1% of Ubuntu users tick the box, that gives us enough data to improve Ubuntu by justifying our decisions with evidence. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
2009/6/23 Nicolò Chieffo nicolo.chie...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Andrew Sayersandrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org wrote: who don't feel like compiling their IM client from source every day. you are definitely right, anyway now empathy is actively developed, and the only way to test it is git -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss Hello, There is an PPA at https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa. Unfortunately it gives you 2.27.2, instead of the latest 2.27.3. It is a start, though, and I expect 2.27.3 to be uploaded soon. Kind regards, -- Sense Hofstede http://qense.nl/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
as I was saying 2.27.3 is already old. You need to be synchronized to a current git version of empathy, weather it is self compiled or from an external PPA. Anyway most problems are not in empathy, but somewhere in telepathy protocol managers (for instance the current ubuntu version of telepathy-butterfly does not work) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
2009/6/23 Nicolò Chieffo nicolo.chie...@gmail.com: as I was saying 2.27.3 is already old. You need to be synchronized to a current git version of empathy, weather it is self compiled or from an external PPA. Anyway most problems are not in empathy, but somewhere in telepathy protocol managers (for instance the current ubuntu version of telepathy-butterfly does not work) Ah, OK, then I misunderstood you. Maybe GNOME or Ubuntu should provide Jhbuild scripts for all GNOME-supported projects to make using the latest commit from GIT easier. Regards, -- Sense Hofstede http://qense.nl/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
2009/6/23 Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org: [...] and reasonable to at least ask in final versions (even the laziest user is enabled to make his or her individual contribution). If just 1% of Ubuntu users tick the box, that gives us enough data to improve Ubuntu by justifying our decisions with evidence. If I remember correctly there is already such an option in the installer. -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On Tuesday 23 June 2009 11:36:53 am Nicolò Chieffo wrote: you should use git master before giving points ;) Where is the git repo? I'll throw today's master into my PPA. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
On Tuesday 23 June 2009 1:36:21 pm Siegfried-Angel wrote: 2009/6/23 Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org: [...] and reasonable to at least ask in final versions (even the laziest user is enabled to make his or her individual contribution). If just 1% of Ubuntu users tick the box, that gives us enough data to improve Ubuntu by justifying our decisions with evidence. If I remember correctly there is already such an option in the installer. I think he wants it to be more prominent, not hidden behind advanced, that way it gets more use. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/Git -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Tuesday 23 June 2009 1:36:21 pm Siegfried-Angel wrote: If I remember correctly there is already such an option in the installer. I think he wants it to be more prominent, not hidden behind advanced, that way it gets more use. I wasn't aware of the feature, so I'll stand corrected on that point :) I'll change my original suggestion to either the popularity contest should draw a statistically significant number of ordinary users, or it should be taken out of the default install. Otherwise, it's just wasting space. IMHO, the best solution would be to enable popcon by default in alpha/beta versions, and as Mackenzie says, make it more prominent for everyone else. This could have a transformative effect on the development process with very little work, which I think is worth a single extra question for users. Aside from anything else, the lack of flamewars would make this list far more productive. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
2009/6/23 Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org: Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Tuesday 23 June 2009 1:36:21 pm Siegfried-Angel wrote: If I remember correctly there is already such an option in the installer. I think he wants it to be more prominent, not hidden behind advanced, that way it gets more use. I wasn't aware of the feature, so I'll stand corrected on that point :) I'll change my original suggestion to either the popularity contest should draw a statistically significant number of ordinary users, or it should be taken out of the default install. Otherwise, it's just wasting space. IMHO, the best solution would be to enable popcon by default in alpha/beta versions, and as Mackenzie says, make it more prominent for everyone else. This could have a transformative effect on the development process with very little work, which I think is worth a single extra question for users. Aside from anything else, the lack of flamewars would make this list far more productive. Only if you think that the alpha and betatesting community are representative of the wider user base, which they are unlikely to be. Caroline -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [Ayatana] Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On mar, 2009-06-23 at 19:00 +0200, Sense Hofstede wrote: Hello, There is an PPA at https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa. Unfortunately it gives you 2.27.2, instead of the latest 2.27.3. It is a start, though, and I expect 2.27.3 to be uploaded soon. Very kind of you. Will test that one, but is it the code that will land in ubuntu more or less? Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
On mar, 2009-06-23 at 19:13 +0200, Nicolò Chieffo wrote: as I was saying 2.27.3 is already old. You need to be synchronized to a current git version of empathy, weather it is self compiled or from an external PPA. ah, ok so I will not test the PPA :) Didn't check the version number. Anyway most problems are not in empathy, but somewhere in telepathy protocol managers (for instance the current ubuntu version of telepathy-butterfly does not work) Also for this reason a ppa would be very comfortable. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Empathy is not in line with the much discussed guidelines
2009/6/23 Sense Hofstede se...@qense.nl: 2009/6/23 Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com: On Tuesday 23 June 2009 11:36:53 am Nicolò Chieffo wrote: you should use git master before giving points ;) Where is the git repo? I'll throw today's master into my PPA. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss Hello, The Empathy GIT repository is located at git://git.gnome.org/empathy Telepathy is at git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/telepathy-glib.git Farsight at git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/farsight.git git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/gst-plugins-farsight.git git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/farsight2.git Regards, -- Sense Hofstede http://qense.nl/ Pardon me, the Farsight2 repository is meant for developing, well, Farsight 2, which isn't used at the moment. You won't need that one. -- Sense Hofstede http://qense.nl/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Provide a GUI option in the installer to enable popcon
Caroline Ford wrote: 2009/6/23 Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org: IMHO, the best solution would be to enable popcon by default in alpha/beta versions, and as Mackenzie says, make it more prominent for everyone else. This could have a transformative effect on the development process with very little work, which I think is worth a single extra question for users. Aside from anything else, the lack of flamewars would make this list far more productive. Only if you think that the alpha and betatesting community are representative of the wider user base, which they are unlikely to be. That's a very good point - to get usable data, popcon.ubuntu.com would have to offer raw results by version. For example, we would need to download the raw data for Karmic alpha/beta versions, and for the Karmic final version. Then we could subtract one from the other to get approximate results for non-beta users. That would pose some minor privacy issues, and would take a bit more work (which I'll happily volunteer to do), but I still think the benefits would far outweigh the costs. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu Add-On CD Composer
Hi All, Have some ideas to propose and discuss, that are certainly related to the future of Ubuntu and its development. So, getting to the point, I tried to come up with a blueprint [1]. Keep in mind, that this is my first experience in this area, currently it is more like a brain-dump, but I hope that you will get my point. Thanks. Alexey [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/add-on-cd-composer -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu Studio meeting 26 of June 09 (01:00am UTC)
Hello everybody, We are holding a Ubuntu Studio meeting the Thursday 26 of June 2009, at 01:00am UTC (that is the night of the 25 to the 26). Everybody is invited. Members and Developers of the Ubuntu Studio team _must_ attend. Users are suggest to do so :) Luis de Bethencourt -- Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá luisbg lui...@ubuntu.com GPG: B0ED1326 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replace PulseAudio with OSS v4?
I just want to add to this, this story is a rather inaccurate portrayal of OSSv4 / ALSA: http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/06/state-of-sound-in-linux-not-so-sorry.html *However* -- check comments for dawhead. That's Paul Davis of JACK weighing in. Obviously, integration of all these things could be much better than it is; that's a given. But the perception that ALSA is somehow deficient from a quality standpoint seems to me to be distorted. ALSA works very well from a pro audio standpoint when combined with JACK, once you get it all working -- and even on a 'pro' machine, in combination with Pulse Audio for your day-to-day consumer tasks. (This is effectively what's happened on Windows, as well, with Vista/7's beefed-up mixing for consumers in DirectSound and such, and ASIO remaining the choice for serious low-latency work.) And Luke is absolutely right, some of these oddities of OSSv4 I think are deal killers. The last thing anyone wants right now is another massive shakeup - better to keep working through ALSA issues. But, generally, don't listen to me, listen to Paul. :) I hear he's also got a presentation in development on these issues, which would be really helpful; there aren't many people who have both the perspective of being the JACK developer *and* an app developer (Ardour) -- not on any OS. Peter http://createdigitalmusic.com On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Luke Yelavich them...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 07:52:45AM EST, Daniel Chen wrote: Lower sound quality is a red herring. ALSA's default resampler has known and quite audible limitations. The available resamplers in PulseAudio demolish the lower sound quality FUD. Jaunty shipped a configuration using a craptastic one in an attempt to balance CPU usage with perceptive quality. Lessons learned: Karmic will ship with a much better (but more CPU-intensive) resampler. I'd like to add that on a technical level, OSS v4 does audio mixing in the kernel, and uses floating point maths, which is strictly forbidden in the official mainline kernel. Trying to get such code even into the Ubuntu kernel will be similar to getting blood out of a stone. Luke -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replace PulseAudio with OSS v4?
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Davyd McColldav...@gmail.com wrote: Oddly enough, pre-PA, I've never seen any kind of lockup on the SBLive. And You're lucky. Some revisions of the EMU10k did awful, racy things. must point out that the latency issue, whilst more pressing for audio professionals, also steps into the user's realm when a game's audio doesn't align with the graphics on-screen. Someone playing a game, whilst not requiring sub 5ms latency, would probably appreciate sub-50ms latency. Many of the sync issues are PulseAudio _and_ application bugs (e.g., the PulseAudio and xine-lib/MPlayer pause one from last dev cycle), so it isn't that low latency is insignificant on the priority list for PA but that reworking PA's mainloop and timer architectures have the side effect of greatly improving both latency and resource use. able to contribute, if I can work the time in. So, point me at a good place to start, and perhaps I can be more help than just a lazy biscuit next to the hard-working tea. Historically, Ubuntu has carried a shedload of backported (from PA git) patches. I would like, and am working with Luke, to minimise these patches for Karmic's PA. 0.9.16-test1 was tagged recently, and it will be available for testing shortly. Periodically, the question of how to contribute arises, so I'll address it here: If you have C (and/or GTK) or C++ (and/or Qt) experience, then consider working in upstream's Trac bug tracker. Some of the Launchpad bugs affecting the pulseaudio source package are Ubuntu-specific; I'll work on (and welcome assistance in) tagging them as (Ubuntu) distro-specific. As Karmic's pulseaudio source sheds its distro-specific bits, the benefits are apparent, since all Linux distros face similar bugs. If you don't feel comfortable contributing source code, then the Linux audio realm is sorely lacking in test harness(es). There are no unit tests in ALSA, PulseAudio, etc. There are no end-to-end tests defined (e.g., for this new HP Mini, attempt to stream this Ogg Vorbis file to an identical HP Mini over an 802.11g network). All distributions will benefit by discussing and implementing them. -Dan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
