Re: Aptitude included in Maverick by default
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-06-12 at 08:40 +1000, Chris Jones wrote: I was discussing this issue with some other members on #ubuntu+1 irc just yesterday. Should aptitude be included in Maverick by default? I can't see any valid reason of why it should be. We already have apt-get, dpkg and gdebi. And between the 3 of those, all bases are already covered. So I believe one has to raise the question. I'm not aware of how much space aptitude actually consumes, but the space could be better used for something more useful and/or important. Its actually very very good and id be lost without it at times. Have you ever broken something like X and had to go find the package? Id say you havent because then you would know that aptitude is awesome :D Hi, according to the blog entry, aptitude will be in main and included by default for the server version only: http://ubuntuedge.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/greetings-goodbyes-entrance-hell/ Of course I feel sad about it, I have been using aptitude a lot ever since I convinced myself that I should try it instead of the good old dselect years ago, before the first ubuntu version :) Aptitute is a great tool, but let's face it, it is a poweruser tool and it doesn't make that much sense on a default desktop install. Most (all??) of its features are also available in synaptic (which is also a poweruser tool). Of course, synaptic is not well suited to fix a broken Xorg, but wouldn't it be so much better to avoid putting a normal user in front of a broken Xorg? Debian and Ubuntu have great package management tool, it is critical to keep working on these tools and to make them easier to user, more powerful and easy to discover/install, but it doesn't have to mean put them all on every default installation! If synaptic is still part of the default install, a power-user tool for package management is already available. But I'm not even sure it really is a requirement, it could also move to the featured application section or something similar (it should at least be easy to find if it is not installed by default) The default desktop install is not about putting all the greatest tools for everyone, it is about providing the best possible user experience for most user in a very small amount of space. I guess many people have a set of pet applications that they add right after every install (I do). But I do love the single-CD install and I think it is worth adding aptitude to my list of additional applications to keep it, even if most of the time I use USB keys these days. A DVD with much more stuff is already available AFAIK and I guess that for people used to rely on the power of aptitude, it will still be an apt-get away :) Best regards. -- Aurélien Naldi -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Aptitude included in Maverick by default
On 2010-06-12 00:10:57 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: Debian aptitude is at 0.6.2.1-2, while ubuntu's aptitude is at 0.4.11.11-1ubuntu10 I don't know why there is such a large version difference though and how much work needs to be done to merge these two together. Lucid synced preferrably with testing and testing had for almost the whole lucid development cycle 0.4.11.11-1 in testing. Aptitude 0.6.1.5-3 moved to testing on 2010-03-23. Way too late to get merged into lucid. One could argue to merge with unstable earlier (aptitude 0.6.0.1-1 got uploaded to unstable on 2009-10-25), but as I don't know how bug free this version was (as aptitude 0.6.x needed almost 5 months to move to testing) I don't know if it was an option to merge with unstable at all. When looking at the changelog entries for those ten ubuntu uploads, three uploads where pure rebuilds with a recent apt. And from the changelog entries for the other Ubuntu delta and their size, it doesn't look as that hard to merge them (if someone is up to this task). Michael -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Clickable notifications
I've noticed that I constantly get notifications about instant messages, e-mails, and the like. I've also noticed that Thunderbird uses its own notification system, which seems to work much better than the one used by Pidgin et al. The difference in these two systems is pretty simple and easy to compare. When I get a notification about, for example, a new Instant Message, I get a black box in the top-right of my screen. Hovering the cursor over this box makes it fade to transparent; clicks pass through, although the elements beneath the box are a little hard to see. When Thunderbird notifies me about an e-mail, I get a box in the bottom-right with a list of new e-mail messages. Clicking a message takes me to the desktop that Thunderbird is on and selects that e-mail, so it's previewed in the preview pane. The latter behavior seems vastly superior to me. I can't click an IM notification and be taken to the desktop with Pidgin on it and have that window brought forward and the appropriate tab selected; instead I need to recall mentally where all that is, switch desktops, switch to the appropriate window, and select the correct tab. In this way, the notifications are effectively useless; they don't tie back to the source of the notification. Most notifications I get are a pointless annoyance because of this, whereas they'd otherwise be helpful; I choose to ignore the event in question because it's too much work to respond to it. The ones that ARE helpful direct me to perform a number of tasks to respond to them, rather than giving me something to click to follow back to the appropriate window. I'm not sure why, but having a notification queue that lists all notifications you didn't respond to or dismiss seems useless. It would be unbelievably cluttered; but I mean the very idea of checking notifications for stuff like instant messages that came while you were AFK just seems pointless. Maybe the usefulness here is in reflexive response to events happening in real-time, rather than simply in response at all. All I can really say for sure is that Pidgin giving me notifications for IMs that I can't click on to follow back irritates the hell out of me. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Clickable notifications
On Sat, 2010-06-12 at 14:51 -0400, John Moser wrote: I've noticed that I constantly get notifications about instant messages, e-mails, and the like. I've also noticed that Thunderbird uses its own notification system, which seems to work much better than the one used by Pidgin et al. The difference in these two systems is pretty simple and easy to compare. When I get a notification about, for example, a new Instant Message, I get a black box in the top-right of my screen. Hovering the cursor over this box makes it fade to transparent; clicks pass through, although the elements beneath the box are a little hard to see. When Thunderbird notifies me about an e-mail, I get a box in the bottom-right with a list of new e-mail messages. Clicking a message takes me to the desktop that Thunderbird is on and selects that e-mail, so it's previewed in the preview pane. The latter behavior seems vastly superior to me. I can't click an IM notification and be taken to the desktop with Pidgin on it and have that window brought forward and the appropriate tab selected; instead I need to recall mentally where all that is, switch desktops, switch to the appropriate window, and select the correct tab. In this way, the notifications are effectively useless; they don't tie back to the source of the notification. Most notifications I get are a pointless annoyance because of this, whereas they'd otherwise be helpful; I choose to ignore the event in question because it's too much work to respond to it. The ones that ARE helpful direct me to perform a number of tasks to respond to them, rather than giving me something to click to follow back to the appropriate window. I'm not sure why, but having a notification queue that lists all notifications you didn't respond to or dismiss seems useless. It would be unbelievably cluttered; but I mean the very idea of checking notifications for stuff like instant messages that came while you were AFK just seems pointless. Maybe the usefulness here is in reflexive response to events happening in real-time, rather than simply in response at all. All I can really say for sure is that Pidgin giving me notifications for IMs that I can't click on to follow back irritates the hell out of me. This has been talked about a lot and for the same reasons you are talking about the messaging menu was created. It turns green and allows you to view the events by selecting it from the menu. This isnt the correct mailing list to discuss this is https://launchpad.net/~ayatana It has been talked about a lot and I personally like the non interactive notifications they are a lot more visually appealing. --fagan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
