Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
Hi, I think firestarter is the best of it's kind. I've been using it for three years and it always dowse the job. we better think in removing UFW than firestarter On 2010 8 31 00:59, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote: On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Rob... That's not particularly news. Gufw is available in all supported releases except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there). Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsu... -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 17:58 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote: On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote: On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote: On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being maintained/developed. Wrong? Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so. See the section on Firestarter at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html That's not particularly news. Gufw is available in all supported releases except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there). Actually it is new, cause it isn't gui-ufw. ;) It is a new project called 'ufw-frontends', and I just found out about it myself. -- Jamie Strandboge | http://www.canonical.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 17:58 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote: On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote: On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote: On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being maintained/developed. Wrong? Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so. See the section on Firestarter at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html That's not particularly news. Gufw is available in all supported releases except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there). Scott K Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user. They have no idea what iptables are or rules for that matter. George -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote: Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user. They have no idea what iptables are or rules for that matter. George What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use firewall at all? Cheers, KK signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 17:21 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote: On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote: Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user. They have no idea what iptables are or rules for that matter. George What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use firewall at all? Cheers, KK Well I'm thinking for many, many users they aren't aware of what TCP is or rules or how the entire thing functions. We probably need some sort of assistant that will set the rules up into known secure states and then offer the user an easy way to add incoming or out going connections without the language barrier. Gufw is close but needs better new user support. For example the list of Programs in the Pre-configured section should maybe include such things as remote desktop, file sharing, media sharing. These are things users will want to do. Also with extended view on it shows one the row number of the rule but what does that mean? Who would know that it is the priority of the rule, hovering the mouse over it says, Insert the rule in the specified row. In Simple rules there is no explanation of what TCP or UDP or BOTH is and why one would want that. Possible a quick pointer to some documentation would help in the tooltip or something similar. Those are the first things that come to mind. Cheers George -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
XDG Config Folders
Hi, has there ever been a discussion about the FreeDesktop Spec for configuration files. FYI, the spec says to put config files not into the home folder directly but instead proposes there separate directories: XDG_DATA_HOME: ~/.local/share XDG_CONFIG_HOME: ~/.config XDG_CACHE_HOME: ~/.cache There are also a couple of ubuntu brainstorm entries: * Ubuntu Brainstorm http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1210/ (current) http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6557/ (duplicate) http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/9343/ (duplicate) As well as a bunch of other resources: * The GNOME Goal proposal: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders * Tracker Bug for the proposed GNOME Goal: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523057 * A blog entry about the XDG Spec: http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?184-cleaning-user-preferences-keeping-user-data http://ploum.frimouvy.org/?207-modify-your-application-to-use-xdg-folders (more detailed) * The _official_ FreeDesktop specification http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ar01s03.html * Thoughs of other people http://www.aigarius.com/blog/2007/01/10/fhs-extension-for-user-home-folders/ I just wanted to bring this up, if there has already been a discussion about this, maybe someone can point me to it or let me know about the current status about this issue. Cheers Sebastian -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
Hey Sebastian, On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 22:51 +0200, Sebastian Geiger wrote: I just wanted to bring this up, if there has already been a discussion about this, maybe someone can point me to it or let me know about the current status about this issue. XDG underuse and misuse is a pet peeve of mine. More pressure on projects to adopt the spec would clear up whole hosts of problems we have with backup, configs and upgrades. A common mistake which is repeated a few times in the links you provided is the part about XDG_DATA_HOME being the location for user files. What the specification means by 'user specific data files' is not your emails, photographs or bookmarks (which are user files). It's means instead any of the program files that would have been put in /usr/local if you had access to write to that directory. A perfect example of something that should go into XDG_DATA_HOME is firefox plugins or gnome themes (or wallpaper hard links). All user files should instead go into their appropriate USER_DIRS as shown in /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults and ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs and not in XDG_DATA_HOME. I wonder if we could get some of those links clarified. Martin, -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 17:34 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: A common mistake which is repeated a few times in the links you provided is the part about XDG_DATA_HOME being the location for user files. What the specification means by 'user specific data files' is not your emails, photographs or bookmarks (which are user files). This mistake is made because there aren't enough good examples of where to put files where they don't fit xdg basedir spec. For example you are saying that emails should go to the directory specified in user-dirs.[defaults,dirs] but that makes no sense uless we are thinking about $DOCUMENTS/.email_app/. Emails, while being documents, aren't really suited for direct access. The same can be said for many other applications that doesn't fit into any of directory listed in the user-dirs.[defaults,dirs]. All user files should instead go into their appropriate USER_DIRS as shown in /etc/xdg/user-dirs.defaults and ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs and not in XDG_DATA_HOME. XDG_DATA_HOKE is supposed to be basically a local, user-writable equivalent of /usr/share. There are many things that fit neither this requirement nor user data description. Cheers, KK signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 22:51 +0200, Sebastian Geiger wrote: Hi, Hey Sebastian, (...) I just wanted to bring this up, if there has already been a discussion about this, maybe someone can point me to it or let me know about the current status about this issue. This topic shows up from time to time on various Ubuntu-related mailing lists. The last discussion I'm aware of took place few months back, you can read it here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg02119.html Cheers, KK signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 00:19 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote: For example you are saying that emails should go to the directory specified in user-dirs.[defaults,dirs] but that makes no sense uless we are thinking about $DOCUMENTS/.email_app/. Emails, while being documents, aren't really suited for direct access. The same can be said for many other applications that doesn't fit into any of directory listed in the user-dirs.[defaults,dirs]. Direct access is a misdirection from the real problem of classification. Sure emails shouldn't be just files and rarely would I expect a user to use nautilus to manage their inbox, but the same can be said for most data sets whether they be photo galleries (i.e. cheese) or emails. What having them in user-dirs does is lay down a guarentee that the data will be in a narrower set of standard formats and will make developers think very carefully before they run away inventing new formats, new indexing and new storage mechanisms. Instead what it should promote is the sharing of data between applications. Of course few programmers really want to tie themselves down to using standard formats in known locations with the possibility of having to track externally modified data. It's still not a good excuse to hide user data sets from both users and other developers. Emails, events, bookmarks and contacts are user data sets just like photos, documents and videos and it's a damn shame that we mis-classify them and save their contents in strange places. But this is a gnome problem and judging by that list of non-xdg projects to be converted it looks like only a legion of developers all working on this full time would be able to sort it out. Anyone got a few million quid? XDG_DATA_HOKE is supposed to be basically a local, user-writable equivalent of /usr/share. There are many things that fit neither this requirement nor user data description. Yes, and anything else in the XDG_DATA_DIRS list. But few things don't fit in my assessment of the problem. Perhaps we could do with a guide and maybe I can have a word with a few pipe devels about their experiences, requirements and thoughts on the whole thing of data classification and storage. Martin, -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
Martin Owens docto...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 00:19 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote: For example you are saying that emails should go to the directory specified in user-dirs.[defaults,dirs] but that makes no sense uless we are thinking about $DOCUMENTS/.email_app/. Emails, while being documents, aren't really suited for direct access. The same can be said for many other applications that doesn't fit into any of directory listed in the user-dirs.[defaults,dirs]. Direct access is a misdirection from the real problem of classification. Sure emails shouldn't be just files and rarely would I expect a user to use nautilus to manage their inbox, but the same can be said for most data sets whether they be photo galleries (i.e. cheese) or emails. What having them in user-dirs does is lay down a guarentee that the data will be in a narrower set of standard formats and will make developers think very carefully before they run away inventing new formats, new indexing and new storage mechanisms. Instead what it should promote is the sharing of data between applications. Of course few programmers really want to tie themselves down to using standard formats in known locations with the possibility of having to track externally modified data. It's still not a good excuse to hide user data sets from both users and other developers. Emails, events, bookmarks and contacts are user data sets just like photos, documents and videos and it's a damn shame that we mis-classify them and save their contents in strange places. But this is a gnome problem and judging by that list of non-xdg projects to be converted it looks like only a legion of developers all working on this full time would be able to sort it out. Anyone got a few million quid? XDG_DATA_HOKE is supposed to be basically a local, user-writable equivalent of /usr/share. There are many things that fit neither this requirement nor user data description. Yes, and anything else in the XDG_DATA_DIRS list. But few things don't fit in my assessment of the problem. Perhaps we could do with a guide and maybe I can have a word with a few pipe devels about their experiences, requirements and thoughts on the whole thing of data classification and storage. I think working to promote cross desktop adoption of technologies that make it easier to interact with data in a consistent, DE independent manner, (like Akonadi) will do more to solve this class of problems than specification work. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: XDG Config Folders
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 19:35 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: I think working to promote cross desktop adoption of technologies that make it easier to interact with data in a consistent, DE independent manner, (like Akonadi) will do more to solve this class of problems than specification work. I agree. But isn't that what I was saying? Such guides are for promoting cross desktop adoption of standard tech. Help programmers see how it works quickly? Or did it look like I was suggesting each person develop independent libs? I thought the recent Akonadi diagram on planet ubuntu was very useful. Shame about the 'K' name of the project and the kde location of it's code, would have been nice to have it on github/savanah/launchpad etc. Save a lot of face for a lot of devels in other projects. So who's up for ripping out EDS and replacing it with Akonadi for Narwhal? OK maybe I do know Akonadi isn't a storage mechanism, but at least we could wedge it between EDS and Evolution. Martin, -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On 10-08-31 08:21 AM, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote: On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote: Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user. They have no idea what iptables are or rules for that matter. George What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use firewall at all? Cheers, KK The default rules when you use: sudo ufw enable are more then adequate for the average user that is running any services. To answer your questions as to why they have to use a firewall, they don't, it's just something they did when they ran Windows, and they can't believe they can be safe on the internet without one. Personally I don't run one at home, and only enable the firewall when I'm out with my netbook. Jim -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 05:09:55PM -0700, Jim Kielman wrote: are more then adequate for the average user that is running any services. To answer your questions as to why they have to use a firewall, they don't, it's just something they did when they ran Windows, and they can't believe they can be safe on the internet without one. Personally I don't run one at home, and only enable the firewall when I'm out with my netbook. When I'm not hooked up to the router which has it's own firewall I routinely see a large number of blocked access attempts, quite a few from China, listed on Firestarter's events tab. I'll use a firewall if it's all the same to you. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
