Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
> JFTR, that sounds a lot like the KDE target audience. My experience with > seeing other long term Gnome users switch is that they are initially > overwhelmed by the number of options and the customability, but once they get > over trying to tweak everything, just because they can, and take a little time > to get to know the environment and what works for them, it often turns out > pretty good. I'd be extremely interested to learn more about the experiences of other long-term GNOME Panel users who switched to Unity. I imagine we're all struggling with the same kind of problems. Their feedback might help me find a way to make it work for me. Are there any studies of that kind available? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Friday, May 06, 2011 12:23:40 AM Francis Bolduc wrote: > When computers are concerned, I'm usually stubborn and conservative. I > know exactly what I like and dislike and I do everything I can to get > rid of what I dislike on my own computer. JFTR, that sounds a lot like the KDE target audience. My experience with seeing other long term Gnome users switch is that they are initially overwhelmed by the number of options and the customability, but once they get over trying to tweak everything, just because they can, and take a little time to get to know the environment and what works for them, it often turns out pretty good. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
Thanks for all the answers. I'll try to give a few answers of my own to questions and concerns that were addressed directly to me. Jeremy: You're right about misconceptions. I had to dig quite a bit to find the few items of verfiable information about the future of Ubuntu and GNOME concerning the GNOME Panel. Thanks for the precision. I did not know that there will be a GNOME 3 Panel similar to GNOME 2 Panel. I'll look at it. Also I agree that Unity lacks customizability. Maybe in it's next incarnation I'll be able to remove the big icons and have a "tree-like" textual menu. Delan: I'm currently downloading a couple of ISO to try out other distributions, something which I have not done in years. However, I think I'll find Ubuntu quite hard to replace, but I reserve my final judgement for later. Daniel: False dichotomy if I consider all the alternatives. True dichotomy if I add the arbitrary requirement that I must stay up-to-date with all the new Ubuntu releases. I do know that there are alternatives that could easily fit my need. For instance, I'm quite familiar with XFCE and could switch to XUbuntu for 11.10 and avoid Unity and GNOME Shell altogether. However, I'll try hard to stick with Ubuntu and this message thread is my attempt at finding out if I should try harder or forget about it and go with the alternatives. Bilal: That is a comforting thought. I'm looking forward to try GNOME 3 Panel. Alexandre: When computers are concerned, I'm usually stubborn and conservative. I know exactly what I like and dislike and I do everything I can to get rid of what I dislike on my own computer. As you can imagine, my desktop environment has remained pretty much the same for the last 6 years. So I've grown accustomed to associate programs to their names instead of their icons. For example, when I think of the Appearance dialog, what I have in mind is the string "Appearance", not the shirt icon. Of course I'll recognize some icons, but it's genuinely harder for me to look at a screen full of icons arranged in a grid than it is to scan a single column of text. As for forking Ubuntu and doing it my way; there is such a thing as programmer respect. I'd rather support Ubuntu than divide it. However, I do want to voice my opinion (and those of my less outspoken firends) on the Desktop Environment direction of Ubuntu. Fergal: I share your opinion. Providing feedback benefits the project. Rodrigo: Yes, I'll look it up. Patrick: Thanks for the link. -- Francis Bolduc, B.Sc. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
2011/5/5 Manish Sinha : > On 05/05/2011 09:22 AM, Bilal Akhtar wrote: >> >> Hello there! >> >> As you've said, in Ubuntu 11.10 users will have the option to install >> GNOME 3 + Shell instead of Unity. One thing to note is that GNOME Panel >> hasn't died (yet), its still being actively developed as a GNOME Shell >> fallback for systems with GPUs not being able to run GNOME Shell. GNOME >> Panel 3 will be in the Ubuntu repositories in 11.10. > > Bilal, I don't think it will be maintained for a long time. Once they > find that most of the people have migrated, they might stop maintaining > it. AFAIK this is the plan. If you can get this cross-checked. No, it is not the plan. Current GNOME Panel maitaner claimed that he will support it as long as there will be neccessity. And bear in mind that even if he drops towel, someone can take his place (not everyone of course, but if there is enough need for that, someone will step up). Cheers, Peter. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On 05/05/2011 09:22 AM, Bilal Akhtar wrote: Hello there! As you've said, in Ubuntu 11.10 users will have the option to install GNOME 3 + Shell instead of Unity. One thing to note is that GNOME Panel hasn't died (yet), its still being actively developed as a GNOME Shell fallback for systems with GPUs not being able to run GNOME Shell. GNOME Panel 3 will be in the Ubuntu repositories in 11.10. Bilal, I don't think it will be maintained for a long time. Once they find that most of the people have migrated, they might stop maintaining it. AFAIK this is the plan. If you can get this cross-checked. -- Manish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage?
hi, Am Donnerstag, den 05.05.2011, 11:11 -0700 schrieb Dylan McCall: > There is, actually, a block of text that mentions it: > “Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free. Created by the best > open-source experts from all over the world, Ubuntu is available in 24 > languages and ready for download today.” it is interesting how this sentence seems to imply a referral to canonical or it's employees to you given it doesnt mention anything in this regard. reading it, this sentence to me includes the GNOME developers, as much as the Xorg devs, Debian developers or the LibreOffice ones (put yourself here if you are involved in any open-source that is available in Ubuntu or helps it in one or the other way) it doesnt say "Ubuntu is glued together by the best experts" or something in this regard though still, many people i talk to read it the same way as you did, i wonder why ... ciao oli -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage?
FUD Alert: please exercise the resistance > Why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage? The same reason why you would not run across the word "Debian" on the main page, unless you explicitly look for it among other 20 menu items: For commercial purposes Canonical positions Ubuntu as an complete and independent product, and that has already given a grief to many of those "best open-source experts from all over the world" Ubuntu dependent on. Being more specific about "Linux" -- for Ubuntu, in theory, it is indeed a replaceable component with existing tentative alternatives, since Debian provides kFreeBSD and even Hurd kernels-based ports. On Thu, 05 May 2011, Igor Kolar wrote: > Also, the title used to say "Ubuntu - Linux for Human Beings", now > it's just "Homepage | Ubuntu". > This might not seem like a big issue, bug given Ubuntu's commitment to > open source it's at least a bit strange. I would appreciate some > background on when this happened, any why. -- Yaroslav O. Halchenko Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755 Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834 Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419 WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage?
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Martin Owens wrote: > I'm more chaffed by the lack of 'Free Software' or 'Free and Open > Source' on the homepage. That shows a lack of support more than > including the word 'Linux' there. > > Martin, There is, actually, a block of text that mentions it: “Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free. Created by the best open-source experts from all over the world, Ubuntu is available in 24 languages and ready for download today.” I, for one, find the word “experts” maybe a little troublesome. Of course, the people who work on Ubuntu are brilliant, but just using that word makes the development community — and free software in general — sound a little exclusive. Like you have to be an expert to be involved. The whole thing sounds a little corporatey to me, really. It's a trope that conjurs an image of thousands of nameless employees working for a big machine that happens to have lots of offices. -- Dylan PS: While we're talking about the website, the dots in the carousel are still backwards compared to the animation. The problem is the float:right in “#u1104 .consumer-page .ubuntu-homepage .all-feats a, #u1104 .consumer-page .ubuntu-homepage .how-free a”. That rule is catching the dots by accident, when it really only wants to catch the “Take a closer look” link. You must go deeper :) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage?
On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 19:35 +0200, Igor Kolar wrote: > This might not seem like a big issue, bug given Ubuntu's commitment to > open source it's at least a bit strange. I would appreciate some > background on when this happened, any why. Because Ubuntu isn't Linux and Linux isn't an operating system. Linux is a kernel. You'll note the lack of 'Gnome', 'Xorg' and 'PulseAudio' too on the front page. Because 'Linux' is a toxic brand in the desktop space. Anything that can convince users that what we have here isn't Linux, the better. Otherwise we face resistance from people who tried redhat 6 back in 1999 and didn't like it and think we offer the same. I'm more chaffed by the lack of 'Free Software' or 'Free and Open Source' on the homepage. That shows a lack of support more than including the word 'Linux' there. Martin, -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage?
Hi all, Why is there no mention of the word "Linux" on the ubuntu.com frontpage? Also, the title used to say "Ubuntu - Linux for Human Beings", now it's just "Homepage | Ubuntu". This might not seem like a big issue, bug given Ubuntu's commitment to open source it's at least a bit strange. I would appreciate some background on when this happened, any why. Thank you, Igor Kolar, Ljubljana -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
From: Jeremy Bicha Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 23:24:17 -0400 Unity actually is customizable, perhaps not to the extent that power users like. I'm hoping that a simple user-friendly tool will be available in 11.04 to change the settings without needing to dig around CCSM or dconf-editor. I think you mean 11.10? After all the bad press, I finally tried Unity out yesterday, and was shocked to discover that I like it quite a bit and think it has tremendous potential -- nice work, guys. I'll post a list of suggested updates for Unity 2.0 after a bit more experimentation. (Also note by way of setting a frame of reference that I prefer using text-keyboard-based interfaces and hate smart phones and iPads; hence particularly appreciate the care given to keyboard shortcuts/equivalents.) Meanwhile, this excellent reference might be of use to people trying to get up to speed quickly using Unity. Note especially the links on customizing Unity; in particular, disabling the global application menu, which is the single most unfortunate design decision for point-to-focus users (and frankly anyone that works with non-maximized windows): The Power User’s Guide to Unity http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 22:52 -0400, Francis Bolduc wrote: > > Then, I started reading about Unity on the web. I found out that in > the next version of Ubuntu, the "Ubuntu Classic" session will be > dropped, leaving me with a choice between Unity and GNOME 3. Not > knowing what GNOME 3 was, I decided to try it that same day. To my > dismay, I realized that GNOME 3 comes with GNOME Shell and it suffers > from the same flaws as Unity (those listed above). Finally, I was > shocked to learn that GNOME 3 will not include the GNOME Panel I like > so much. > fallback session for GNOME3 includes the gnome-panel, with a lot of improvements: http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead,-long-live-gnome-panel! cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On 5 May 2011 09:55, Alexandre Strube wrote: > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Francis Bolduc wrote: >> >> I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my >> needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? > > Adapt and move on. And what is with the thing about do not recognizing > icons? Do you have some psychological disability or are you just stubborn? > (I am being serious here). > >> >> Am I missing something or the interface and the workflow I've been >> using, and depending on, for the last 6 years is endangered? > > Not at all. No one said you need to upgrade, to begin with. This is clearly not a long-term solution. At some point, not even security fixes will be available and then upgrading will be unavoidable. There are lots of reasons to want to upgrade before that point. > Second, it is > free software. Don't like what you see? Download the source, compile and be > happy. You can even run gnome 1 if you want, sources are around. Ubuntu is a product and this is a user, possibly even a paying customer for all you know. He is explaining why recent changes make him unhappy with the product. Ubuntu should listen to him. They don't have to agree with him or make any changes because of one user. The idea that rather than providing feedback, unhappy users should just go roll their own version benefits no one. I hope it is not the opinion of anyone of any importance within Ubuntu, F > If you want to stay using the latest version of GNOME, well, things are > changing and are not under the control of Ubuntu. It is responsibility of > the GNOME team, and decisions were already made. If you upgrade, you agree > with them. It is that simple. > -- > [] > Alexandre Strube, PhD > su...@ubuntu.com > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Francis Bolduc wrote: > I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my > needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? > Adapt and move on. And what is with the thing about do not recognizing icons? Do you have some psychological disability or are you just stubborn? (I am being serious here). > Am I missing something or the interface and the workflow I've been > using, and depending on, for the last 6 years is endangered? > Not at all. No one said you need to upgrade, to begin with. Second, it is free software. Don't like what you see? Download the source, compile and be happy. You can even run gnome 1 if you want, sources are around. If you want to stay using the latest version of GNOME, well, things are changing and are not under the control of Ubuntu. It is responsibility of the GNOME team, and decisions were already made. If you upgrade, you agree with them. It is that simple. -- [] Alexandre Strube, PhD su...@ubuntu.com -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Congrats on 11.04
Hi, I am also having many problems on natty. Logging in and out is the biggest problem. Font smoothing doesn't work when logging in and out of an account, or the only way font smoothing works is from starting up (re booting), and the initial login from that boot. If I log out from the initial boot, and log in to my children's or wife's account, font smoothing vanishes. Also, I the background image vanishes and turns white if my computer goes to sleep in full natty (the not-classic-mode). I must say that bug reporting has turned into a technical this-way and that-way. If the purpose of Unity was to enroll non-technical users bug reporting must be improved. I can only describe it as confusing or obfuscated. Right now we are using natty with ubuntu classic no effects. -- Craig Bakalian -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
