Re: Proposal to delay release of Precise Pangolin

2011-10-18 Thread Joseph Toppi 
I really do think bugs will hurt the long term health of the project. Up
through 11.04 I had always gotten a few bugfixes with each upgrade. I had a
few random bugs that I was living with, but for the most part everything
worked. I had 3d acceleration with my nvidia card, I could use a second
monitor, I could close the lid to suspend the machine, and in general it
just behaved as expected. With 11.10 I lost the ability to suspend (now the
machine becomes non-responsive when I close the lid), I gained a 3d
rendering bug that was originally reported a month after 11.04 that affects
my second monitor, I cannot even rely on the pixmaps for my icons loading
because sometimes I get just get blank little rectangles. If I wanted
mysterious bugs I would have stuck with windows, most Linux advocates tout
stability however I cannot see doing that with 11.10. By any measure Gentoo
was more stable than this release :( .

Because no one else seemed willing to check, compact view does remove the
needless amount of margin, but also switches to a more list-like look and
changes the scrolling to horizontal. I checked in Nautilus 2.32.2.1 the
version that ships with 11.04 with all updates applied.

What kind of QA process is there before a release, how can I help with that?



On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 22:15 -0400, nick rundy wrote:
> > Yet the bug has existed for more than 3 years. Sadly, the same can be
> > said for many other bugs.
>
> To be fair to the bug:
>
>  * No one answered the question 'did you try compact layout'
>  * Nautilus is a 'special' codebase which I wouldn't want to touch again
> this side of the 21st century, ugly and duplicative spaghetti.
>  * Anything to do with how something looks, workflow or speed is not
> going to get fixed by the fire fighters or cathedral builders.
>  * These types of bugs are too big/complex for quick patches and too
> small or unimportant for critical attention.
>  * Nouser continues to pay for bug fixes, no economics and no other
> relationship between programmer and user. The gnome programmer deals
> with bugs as he feels like it and expects patches.
>
> I understand your point Nick, I'd really like a cycle that focuses
> _only_ on bug fixing and nothing else. But I'd also like a cycle that
> took everyone off coding to train a 100 new kernel hackers and 50 new
> xorg slaves.
>
> If wishes could be put in dishes the world would be delicious.
>
> Best Regards, Martin Owens
>
>
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Re: Proposal to delay release of Precise Pangolin

2011-10-18 Thread Martin Owens 
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 22:15 -0400, nick rundy wrote:
> Yet the bug has existed for more than 3 years. Sadly, the same can be
> said for many other bugs.

To be fair to the bug:

 * No one answered the question 'did you try compact layout'
 * Nautilus is a 'special' codebase which I wouldn't want to touch again
this side of the 21st century, ugly and duplicative spaghetti.
 * Anything to do with how something looks, workflow or speed is not
going to get fixed by the fire fighters or cathedral builders. 
 * These types of bugs are too big/complex for quick patches and too
small or unimportant for critical attention.
 * Nouser continues to pay for bug fixes, no economics and no other
relationship between programmer and user. The gnome programmer deals
with bugs as he feels like it and expects patches.

I understand your point Nick, I'd really like a cycle that focuses
_only_ on bug fixing and nothing else. But I'd also like a cycle that
took everyone off coding to train a 100 new kernel hackers and 50 new
xorg slaves.

If wishes could be put in dishes the world would be delicious.

Best Regards, Martin Owens


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Proposal to delay release of Precise Pangolin

2011-10-18 Thread nick rundy 

Canonical/Ubuntu, please don't feel obligated to release Precise Pangolin in 
April 2012. A delayed release would strengthen stability and allow more bugs to 
be fixed in both Unity and GNOME 3.2.

Considering the "long-lived" nature of an LTS release, it would be preferable 
if Precise Pangolin was delayed a month or two (or more) than for it to be 
released on time with visible bugs. There are so many bugs that plague Oneiric. 
Many exist in GNOME 3.2. Perhaps Precise could be delayed a month or two and 
Ubuntu developers could fix some of the "minor" bugs plaguing GNOME 3.2? 

Although ranked as "minor," some of these bugs have existed for years and 
really hurt the usability of Ubuntu. For example, please see bug 
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552093 and take a look at the 
screenshots posted by the bug's commentators. John Strandberg recently posted  
a screenshot of Oneiric that highlights how much this bug hurts productivity. 
Yet the bug has existed for more than 3 years. Sadly, the same can be said for 
many other bugs.

I love Oneiric, but it has too many bugs. Please consider delaying release and 
having Ubuntu developers fix as many bugs as possible for Precise, even if it 
means fixing bugs that GNOME themselves should be fixing. 

I feel confident that the community will have no problem with a delay, even if 
it means skipping a 6 month release for once. The integrity of the LTS is worth 
it.

Thanks,


NIck
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Re: The number of blocks reserved for root should be reconsidered

2011-10-18 Thread Vesa Paatero 
Thanks, Bear. I think, though, that when you are running out of disk 
space, performance becomes secondary as the priority shifts towards 
getting as much space as you can.


So, when you don't have space you prefer a low reservation level and 
when you do have abundant space, the reservation level doesn't matter. 
That's why I would set the reservation at a level where the necessary 
system processes are allowed to function with sufficient space but not 
much above that.


Vesa


17.10.2011 22:52, Bear Giles wrote:


A major reason for that space is liquidity, for lack of a better 
phrase. If you have 5% reserved you can probably allocate a new block 
near your existing file. If you only have, say, 1%, you will probably 
have a lot more thrashing.


However this all assumes the same file size distribution as in the 
past. It may be better, or it may be worst, with gigabyte media files. 
Shudder. Imagine the thrashing with a poorly distributed video file.


On Oct 17, 2011 11:45 AM, "Vesa Paatero" > wrote:


Hello,

When Ubuntu installers create disk partitions, they reserve the
default 5% of blocks for root-only use. For nowadays hard disks,
however, that percentage can make dozens of gigabytes, which seems
much more than the necessary/reasonable amount for that purpose.

People can change the reserved size afterwards by using tune2fs if
they know that such a reservation takes place... but since Ubuntu
is aiming to be easy-to-use distro, particularly suited for those
who don't know the stuff "under the hood", it would be best if the
installer set the optimal size of the root-only reservation
automatically.

So, how about if some people with a good idea of the disk usage of
the basic system services decide what the right amount to be
reserved (as a function of disk space?) is and then someone who
knows the installation scripts could make the necessary changes there?

Should I add an entry about this into some database.. the bug
database, the brainstorm system or what others there are?

Thanks for considering it,
Vesa


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