Re: Strawman: merge main and universe
Scott James Remnant wrote: The distinction between main and restricted is done based on licensing: software in main fulfils the necessary freedoms for modification and redistribution, software in restricted may not. [snip] I therefore propose an alternative. We move all packages from universe into main, and remove the universe component. Likewise packages from multiverse are moved into restricted, and multiverse removed. Instead, we define who provides what kind of support through meta-data. I think separately-maintained metadata is the right way to solve the problem of "what are we communicating about package X". Even components fail to communicate tricky things like the difference in maintenance windows for desktop and server on an LTS release - gnome-gpg is in main, and apache is in main, but they are "formally maintained" for different lengths of time, and there's no way to have the system generate a report of that for you. Metadata, published separately and used by the full set of apps that need to communicate this to the end-user, would be a good solution. [snip] What about upload privileges? Let's do those the same way. -1, and loudly. I do think we need a richer privileges system for upload - we specifically need to solve the problem that people who care about a package in universe don't lose the ability to tend to it when it moves to main. But that should be the exception, rather than the rule. In other words, I would layer explicit additional permissions for packages, and (small) sets of packages, on top of our existing main/universe permissions. That way, when a package, or small set of tightly-linked packages, wants to migrate from universe to main, it can come with a dedicated group who can continue to upload to it even though it's in main. I don't want to see a general move to seed-based permissioning, because while the seeds themselves are relatively stable, their dependencies can flap all over the show, and I don't want to have to try to resolve those issues, nor do I want people to have any incentive to define dependencies to achieve ulterior policy goals. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Universe Freeze Imminent
Jonathan Riddell wrote: The universe archive for hardy will be frozen solid at 0800UTC tomorrow (Wednesday 23rd). Uploads which fix important bugs and are approved by motu-release will be accepted before then. Preparation of ISO images for 8.04 is in progress (join us for testing in #ubuntu-testing), only fixes for showstopper bugs will be accepted for packages included on the CDs and DVDs. Jonathan Riddell, release team As an aside, I put the KDE4 remix on my new desktop. Really shiny, then the RAID drives exploded, *probably* not because of KDE4 :-). Will get it back up and give you more feedback, but first impressions were excellent on the looks front. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Universe Freeze Imminent
Doh. That was intended for JR. Oh well, congrats to everyone else who's been working on the KDE4 remix :-) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released
Ubuntu Announcements wrote: The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Long-Term Support) on desktop and server, continuing Ubuntu's tradition of integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. Congratulations all on a phenomenal development cycle. From planning to release this has been both our most significant, and our best executed, release ever. I hope everyone will take the opportunity to celebrate at a release party or wherever you find yourself this evening! Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: making deals with M$
Mark Fink wrote: I just read this article: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/07/ubuntu-remix-codecs/ I hope this is wrong or I will have to stop using ubuntu and find another distro to use. Such a shame... Mark, Remco There is (again) absolutely no truth to the rumour that Canonical has done a deal with Microsoft for access to codecs - either in return for money, or for some other quid-pro-quo. The recently-announced netbook remix is a prototype of the sort of platform that Canonical is working on with OEM's. Those OEM's almost always want to make sure that media is *legally* playable by the users who purchase their devices, and Canonical will gladly work with companies like Real Media or Fluendo to make sure that is possible. If you are an OEM you should be able to ship machines based on Ubuntu and not break the law, and if you are an individual user you should be able to purchase media codecs and not break the law. Those codecs include things like Flash, MP3-4, WMV, QuickTime and so on. That said, I will defend (again) the importance of being willing to work with Microsoft, under reasonable and transparent conditions, to further goals that we share, if the opportunity arises. I'm entirely against the idea that any company is "untouchable" - we have our values, they have theirs, and it's important to remember that we might actually have many things in common. For example, we both have an interest in making sure that countries have open and competitive internet access, because both Ubuntu and Windows depend on having fast internet access for updates. We might well work together to encourage good telecommunications policy. To reject that sort of collaboration is, in my mind, just as self-defeating as it was for Microsoft to call the GPL "a cancer". The reality is that the world is a heterogenous place, and Windows and Linux are both real forces that need to be accommodated. That does not mean we need to sell out on fundamental principles, as we think some distributions have done, but it does mean we need to stay open to the possibility of collaboration on terms that we are comfortable with. It's not working with Microsoft that would be wrong, it's working with Microsoft in a way that undermines free software. And Canonical has not and will not do that. There is nothing new in what is being done with the netbook remix. It is not an edition of Ubuntu. It is not even a real "finished product" - what you have are a set of packages that can be used together with Ubuntu to make the starting point of an image for an OEM. There is no intentions to put proprietary codecs into standard Ubuntu - that would be against our stated principles. You are welcome to download and modify any of the pieces Canonical has put together for that remix. The remix is more of a statement of intent to the OEM industry - that there is an easy to use, classy, effective starting point for their devices that is intrinsically Ubuntu while still being friendly for "newbie netbook users". OEM's have always - as long as I have been around - wanted to help users with the codec problem. Dell very kindly underwrites the cost of DVD playback for people who purchase a machine from them with Ubuntu pre-installed, using legal codecs and players. You might well question the wisdom of the law that makes it necessary for that to be proprietary, but I think Dell deserves praise and thanks for their willingness to help their customers make DVD playback work. The more people are using Linux, the more awareness there is of free software issues, the more likely it is that laws are not written which make it impossible to do things in a free software way. I'm proud to be part of the process of bringing free software to a wider audience, and don't believe that working with OEM's to make it possible for products - or end users - of Ubuntu to achieve their goals legally is a setback in that regard. While I appreciate the vigilance of folks who have expressed concerns on this thread, and understand that the role of Canonical within Ubuntu is such that we *must* have constant scrutiny of Canonical's decisions by the broader community, I would ask that this scrutiny itself be held to a high standard. This rumour and thread sprung up with no evidence of a breach of trust on the part of Canonical, and escalated into ad hominem attacks that are not in keeping with the Ubuntu code of conduct. I encourage people to ask questions of their leaders in the community, but not to slander them without evidence. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Disappointed with Ubuntu Server, could be used by such a wider audience
The server is more difficult to define as a single "thing" than the desktop. We've taken the view that the best service we can provide to the free software community is to ensure that Ubuntu's server offering is highly modular, so you can start with something minimalist (the out of the box experience that you've seen) and then add the specific components you want. Ubuntu server follows from the Debian heritage of striving to be "the best platform for a serious Linux system administrator", and I think we succeed very much in delivering to that promise. I would credit the server team with great work in recent releases and am very excited by the plans they have committed to for 8.10. I do agree with you that this requires a more expert understanding of the free software stack, and thus is quite different to our promise with the Ubuntu desktop, which is "the easiest and most modular desktop experience possible with free software". I can understand that this creates a potential shock for users who are new to Linux, find Ubuntu very easy to use on the desktop, and then are dropped into the deep end when they install Ubuntu server. I would suggest, however, that those users can quite easily use the normal desktop edition as a server-with-GUI, and that there are a number of easy to use web administrated server management tools that are already available with Ubuntu. I think there has been a push to get eBox working well, and you might want to join that effort. This would allow someone to install a minimal server with eBox and be productive in the way you describe. I don't want Ubuntu server to lose it's minimalist, component oriented sensibilities, so I can't support your call to have a GUI out-of-the-box on the server. But I would welcome your participation in any of the existing efforts to make it possible to get the benefits of that minimalist approach together with an easy-to-use administrative interface, either GUI or web based. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Firefox 3 HugDay!
Dereck wrote: > This week's HugDay target is *drum roll please* Firefox 3! > * 658 New bugs need a hug > * 131 Confirmed bugs just need a review > > I don't think anything needs to be said about how important Firefox > is, it just needs to work. With over 1300 bugs currently open, we can > use a lot of help getting the information needed to shake out the > bugs. > > Bookmark it, add it to your calenders, turn over those egg-timers! > * Thursday October 9th > * http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20081009 Thanks for leading this charge, Brian! Just for fun I've signed up to help triage #263348 but I'm a bit short on minions ;-) Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Release notes
I think we should put a URL in the release notes, rather than an explicit list, so that it's current whenever people read it. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu 8.10 released
Congratulations to everyone on the release of the Ibex! There are a number of highlights that everyone is talking about but for me the real highlight is the way our community continues to grow. It's wonderful to see so many people from so many disciplines across so many different communications mediums collaborate to make something like 8.10 possible. I've noticed a real shift in the way people take responsibility for their part of the project - from the community-contributed themes to the regional membership boards to the expanding set of LoCo teams... thank you both to the leaders of those teams and the members who have pulled together so well. It would take a lifetime to visit all the LoCo teams and other groups that play a role in bringing Ubuntu to fruition, but it would be a fun life indeed! Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Updates to Mesa in an LTS - How do you get one?
I think being on an RC, as opposed to a final release, is as awkward for us as it is for everyone else. It makes all of our updates harder, because the codebase is unique to us, it's not a release that upstream cares about. So, in this case, I think it's a perfect candidate for -proposed, which is turned off by default and turned on for early warning. We should of course look at the scope and risks. Phil has said this affects only one driver, which is good. Martin's point about Mesa being in the middle of a big complex and critical stack is true too. On balance, careful review, some sample testing, and then -proposed seem reasonable to me. Phil, I really appreciate that you have persisted on this. I also appreciate that we are anal about scary updates to millions of systems. I have met literally hundreds of people who's grandparents and parents are running Ubuntu and who would be crushed to have it DOS'd by a bad update to X, so I respect and support the SRU process to avoid Another Wiesbaden ;-) Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: ubuntu-release delegations for unseeded packages in universe/multiverse
On 21/09/10 20:20, Stefan Potyra wrote: > For universe/multiverse packages, that are NOT found on any installation > media, Feature Freeze Exceptions [1] can be obtained from one of the > delegates in addition to ubuntu-release until the date of Final Freeze for > universe [2]: > > * mythbuntu: Mario Limonciello (~superm1) [superm1] > * mozilla team: Chris Coulson (~chrisccoulson) [chrisccoulson], Micah Gersten > (~micahg) [micahg] > * xubuntu: Lionel Le Folgoc (~mrpouit) [mr_pouit] > * netbook: Didier Roche (~didrocks) [didrocks] > * edubuntu: Jonathan Carter (~jonathan) [highvoltage], > Stéphane Graber (~stgraber) [stgraber] > * Ubuntustudio: Scott Lavender (~slavender) [ScottL] Very nice, organised communication, thanks Stefan! How are the delegations working out, now that we have a couple of substantial teams carrying their respective responsibilities? Any observations / suggestions / concerns on your end? Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: ubuntu-release delegations for unseeded packages in universe/multiverse
On 22/09/10 15:45, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Very nice, organised communication, thanks Stefan! > How are the delegations working out, now that we have a couple of > substantial teams carrying their respective responsibilities? Any > observations / suggestions / concerns on your end? *cough*. Reply-to strikes again, sorry for the broadcast, this was intended for Stefan directly! But I'm interested in thoughts from everyone on the list. The delegation process *should* be giving us a smoother scalability in our diverse community, I'm interested in hear if that's happening, and what friction is being caused if any. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Unity, consistency and password-protected web pages
On 28/03/11 04:32, Dylan McCall wrote: > Something I've noticed lately has me a little concerned. I am hoping > you folks can put my fears at ease! When I look at bug reports for > Unity, I often encounter links to what I assume are design documents > internal to Canonical. Here is one of those bug reports: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/729009 > (I realise this one was filed recently on an issue noticed after > implementation, but let's view it as an example). > The description points at an image: > https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~sabdfl/11_04/desktop_and_netbook/dash/Dash_desktop/unity_desktop_dashboard_23_02_11_stages_fixed_01.png > > I'm going to wander out on a limb here and assume Unity's design is > finalized and this isn't a matter of people (sensibly) holding off on > publicizing stuff until it's actually useful. I can understand the > need (and the desire) to do some things internally, but I wonder if > this is always happening intentionally, or if it's something being > done by accident. In this particular case, the image in question could be attached to the bug and the description updated. In general, there won't ever be a perfect line between what we're talking about with customers or partners, and what's being discussed in public. For example, there's a constant stream of bugs and mailing list threads about Unity, some of which overlap with things we're working on commercially. We can't say "don't discuss this please", that would be silly. We equally can't publish unfinished concepts, because anything we say carries a lot of weight and turns into a commitment before it's necessarily appropriate for it to be so. So I think some sharp edges in the communication are inevitable. I know that causes some distress. The flip side is we get to work on a platform which is actually part of the commercial ecosystem, and stands a reasonable chance of having a meaningful impact in bringing free software to the "real world" desktop. If I could see a way to do it without those rough edges, which was also compatible with the needs of our customers and partners, I'd steer us that way instead. Whenever these crossed wires, or links to unavailable content occur, it's a reasonable question to ask if the material can be published more widely. Obviously, it's not ideal for us to have links to internal content. *Sometimes* it will be necessary, in this case it isn't. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Expansion of Valve free games offer to Ubuntu developers
That's super - thanks Neil! Please pass appreciation on to the relevant person at Valve. On 10/02/14 15:51, Neil McGovern wrote: > Hi all, > > As I'm sure most will be aware, for the last couple of weeks, Valve have > offered access to all Valve produced games free of charge to Debian > Developers [0]. > > As of today, they have kindly extended this to all registered Ubuntu > Developers [1]. > > Collabora is administering the distribution of keys so to request your > key, please email Jo Shields with a PGP > signed email requesting it. If you don't hear back in a couple of days > or so, you can then email me directly as > I'll provide cover for Jo when he's not on holiday. > > Happy gaming! > Neil > > [0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/01/msg6.html > [1] Essentially defined as everyone who's entitled to upload directly to > the Ubuntu primary archive, even if only to a restricted set of packages > > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Changes to build-dependency handling in Ubuntu xenial beyond
On 08/04/16 17:39, Steve Langasek wrote: > Thanks to some stellar work by Dimitri Ledkov and Colin Watson, and as > discussed on ubuntu-devel over the past couple of months[1,2], a change has > been landed to Launchpad and the archive reports[3] to allow packages in > main to build-depend on universe (and packages in restricted to build-depend > on either universe or multiverse). > > As a result, the archive admins will be moving a large number of packages > from main to universe over the next few days in preparation for the 16.04 > release. Just to say thank you to the folks who made this possible, it's a great simplification for us in determining the natural boundaries of main! Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Installation Media and supportability of i386 in 18.04 LTS Re: Ubuntu Desktop on i386
Folks, I think we need to understand whether i386 won't be widely used for very small IoT devices and hence be important for developers targeting those. I accept i386 i no longer relevant for PC's and laptops, but I would not be surprised if 32-bit x86 is used in small 'embedded' environments. Please factor this in to the discussion, and let's circle back to review once there is an assessment that includes that insight. Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Installation Media and supportability of i386 in 18.04 LTS Re: Ubuntu Desktop on i386
OK, I'm reassured that we're thinking about this appropriately, thanks Dimitri & friends. Mark -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Yakkety Yak Beta 1 Released
Nicely done :) Mark On 25/08/16 18:14, Set Hallstrom wrote: > "The Jogpa, in our mad flight, cut off a long lock of the yak's silky > hair. Having secured this, he appeared to be quite satisfied, let go, > and sheathed his sword." > > ― Arnold Henry Savage Landor > > > The first beta of the Yakkety Yak (to become 16.10) has now been released! > > This milestone features images for Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, > Ubuntu Kylin, Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Studio. > > Pre-releases of the Yakkety Yak are *not* encouraged for anyone needing > a stable system or anyone who is not comfortable running into > occasional, even frequent breakage. They are, however, recommended for > Ubuntu flavor developers and those who want to help in testing, > reporting and fixing bugs as we work towards getting this bos grunniens > ready. > > Beta 1 includes a number of software updates that are ready for wider > testing. These images are still under development, so you should expect > some bugs. > > While these Beta 1 images have been tested and work, except as noted in > the release notes, Ubuntu developers are continuing to improve the > Yakkety Yak. In particular, once newer daily images are available, > system installation bugs identified in the Beta 1 installer should be > verified against the current daily image before being reported in > Launchpad. Using an obsolete image to re-report bugs that have already > been fixed wastes your time and the time of developers who are busy > trying to make 16.10 the best Ubuntu release yet. Always ensure your > system is up to date before reporting bugs. > > Lubuntu: > Lubuntu is a flavor of Ubuntu based on LXDE and focused on providing a > very lightweight distribution. > > The Lubuntu 16.10 Beta 1 images can be downloaded from: > > * http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/yakkety/beta-1/ > > More information about Lubuntu 16.10 Beta 1 can be found here: > > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta1/Lubuntu > > Ubuntu GNOME: > Ubuntu GNOME is a flavour of Ubuntu featuring the GNOME desktop > environment. > > The Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Beta 1 images can be downloaded from > * http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/releases/yakkety/beta-1/ > > More information about Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Beta 1 can be found here: > > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta1/UbuntuGNOME > > Ubuntu Kylin: > Ubuntu Kylin is a flavour of Ubuntu that is more suitable for Chinese > users. > > The Ubuntu Kylin 16.10 Beta 1 images can be downloaded from: > > * http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntukylin/releases/yakkety/beta-1/ > > More information about Ubuntu Kylin 16.10 Beta 1 can be found here: > > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta1/UbuntuKylin > > Ubuntu MATE: > Ubuntu MATE is a flavour of Ubuntu featuring the MATE desktop > environment for people who just want to get stuff done. > > The Ubuntu MATE 16.10 Beta 1 images can be downloaded from: > > * http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/yakkety/beta-1/ > > More information about Ubuntu MATE 16.10 Beta 1 can be found here: > > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta1/UbuntuMATE > > Ubuntu Studio: > Ubuntu Studio is a flavour of Ubuntu configured for multimedia > production. > > The Ubuntu Studio 16.10 Beta 1 images can be downloaded from: > > * http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/yakkety/beta-1/ > > More information about Ubuntu Studio 16.10 Beta 1 can be found here: > > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Beta1/UbuntuStudio > > If you're interested in following the changes as we further develop the > Yakkety Yak, we suggest that you subscribe to the ubuntu-devel-announce > list. This is a low-traffic list (a few posts a month) carrying > announcements of approved specifications, policy changes, beta releases > and other interesting events. > > * http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-announce > > A big thank you to the developers and testers for their efforts to pull > together this Beta release! > > In addition, we would like to wish Linux a happy 25th birthday! > > > On behalf of the Ubuntu Release Team, > > Set Hallstrom and Simon Quigley > > > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
