Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 27, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Shentino wrote: Just curious, but would Landscape have any feature set overlap with what we're talking about here? I read that canonical uses it commercially. This has brought my focus back on the subject line for what we're all replying to. I think it's been stated quite widely now that using a GUI to configure Apache, SMTP, etc is probably unwise (RHEL seems to disagree, but whatever), I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to have a gui for domain server administration, or essentially what landscape is already doing, at least in part: controlling users, pushing updates, monitoring systems; it may be worth looking at. The Landscape client itself is GPL and could probably be used to reverse engineer a server to control it, if one wanted to do so. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 27, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Christopher Chan wrote: Hands up those who know end users that understand tcp/ip enough to decide on a static ip for the UDS server that will host the user account database, the update repository and the monitoring software. So now you're what, bashing landscape too? Canonical supposedly makes some money off it, probably from at least a few competent administrators who find it makes their job easier. An alternative might at least solve a few of the wants of the original post without going too far overboard. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 2:12 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: And you thing that simple file sharing server based on SMB are comparable to Mustang GT? No. But I think that running a public HTTP server is. Any user can run a public HTTP server without knowing what the hell they are doing. They just follow a howto from the-perfect-server-setup.tk. Of course, that howto also recommends setting up a mail server, but inadvertently doesn't set a password for the SMTP server. Thank you for proving my point. Or proving the point that easy to use GUI configuration tools can actually help make the situation better, for example suggesting the user set a password for their SMTP server. The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little better. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: If you feed yourself through Linux system administration you have an interest in it being inaccessible. Someone may feed himself by selling used books. He has no interest in learning sister admiration whatever that may be. He just wants that new Unbuto thing that will let his customers see what books he has. And of course he will make sure that he can access the customer's data (name, phone number, email address, credit card info) from a little hidden link in the corner that nobody would ever notice. This could be accomplished just as easily on any webhost and is certainly not going to be triggered by a system administration utility, though by this logical thread Ubuntu had better get on with removing Quanta and anything that makes a complex and possibly dangerous process easier. Not including these things is of course not going to hurt anything of course. Some people will use a howto to set it up, some people will manage to get it working good enough. People that have no interest in either will use another distribution which does include them. Of the three I would rather they use the other distro; they're probably safer, but it doesn't do much for Ubuntu advocacy. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 11:10 AM, Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote: Dotan Cohen wrote: For your information, Linux savvy companies tend to... Linux-savvy companies are not the issue here. GUI server tools will attract mom 'n pop small businesses as well. Mom and pop small businesses do not need a server. They just need a file/print sharing tool like what you have on Mac OS X, an account with a local isp and a router from that isp. There are plenty of small enterprises dotted around Hong Kong that have ZERO it personnel and the last thing they need is to try to run a server themselves. It is impossible to make the server foolproof for such outfits. That tool is generally called a server. That Mac OS X tool is called Samba, with a nice interface to configure it. I see no reason why they should be forced to run Mac OS X to do this. People should have the choice to do what they want, even if you disagree with it. Advocating for licenses to run a server is preposterous, and goes completely against the Ubuntu philosophy in general [1], which is not limited to just Ubuntu Desktop. Who are you to control what a mom 'n pop small business does or does not do? Should they be forced to hire a full time IT staff to run oldtownrootbeer.com because you don't think they should have access to a powerful yet easy to use system, because they might do bad things? In all of this you have also forgotten that Ubuntu is used worldwide, including places without much IT infrastructure, let alone IT training in order to be an uber sysadmin. [1]: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 22, 2009, at 2:56 AM, Christopher Chan wrote: Steven Susbauer wrote: On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:56 PM, Christopher Chan wrote: Ryan Dwyer wrote: It doesn't matter how much work is involved. Do you think the Linux/Ubuntu community would be willing to change the way system logons work if it meant bug #1 could be completed? Let us see. To change the way system logons work would mean changing pam, the C library and just about anything that has to do with system accounts. You are welcome to try to convince the Ubuntu community to maintain a fork of all these essential system libraries and offer some form of backwards compatibility to avoid having to also modify who knows how many other packages like sendmail, apache, bind, ..., ..., ..., everything. Mac OS X, a certified UNIX system as of Snow Leopard, is enjoying a measure of success without having to become Windows like. You are barking up the wrong tree here. Note that OS X (that UNIX certified system) has completely changed how system logons work. User accounts (and a ton of other things) are managed through the Open Directory service even on the local machine. The plus of this is it is also highly compatible with external directory services. It takes three or four clicks of a mouse to configure the system to use a domain server and authenticate domain users against a centralized system. Their system is both compatible with traditional UID/GID, and also allows for separation of local machine and domain accounts. I am not extremely familiar with the intricacies of the OS X Open Directory system and know that they have put in the work to make it work well and be compatible. It is not impossible and certainly worth considering before writing it off. Of course it may be that it is too much work to implement something similar. OH? Now this is interesting. I wonder if it is present in Darwin where we can have a look at it. It is indeed. See: http://developer.apple.com/opensource/dirservices/ as well as http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Networking/Reference/DirectoryServiceFramework/index.html Both the Directory Service and OpenDirectory server are on their open source download page and are APSL. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:56 PM, Christopher Chan wrote: Ryan Dwyer wrote: It doesn't matter how much work is involved. Do you think the Linux/Ubuntu community would be willing to change the way system logons work if it meant bug #1 could be completed? Let us see. To change the way system logons work would mean changing pam, the C library and just about anything that has to do with system accounts. You are welcome to try to convince the Ubuntu community to maintain a fork of all these essential system libraries and offer some form of backwards compatibility to avoid having to also modify who knows how many other packages like sendmail, apache, bind, ..., ..., ..., everything. Mac OS X, a certified UNIX system as of Snow Leopard, is enjoying a measure of success without having to become Windows like. You are barking up the wrong tree here. Note that OS X (that UNIX certified system) has completely changed how system logons work. User accounts (and a ton of other things) are managed through the Open Directory service even on the local machine. The plus of this is it is also highly compatible with external directory services. It takes three or four clicks of a mouse to configure the system to use a domain server and authenticate domain users against a centralized system. Their system is both compatible with traditional UID/GID, and also allows for separation of local machine and domain accounts. I am not extremely familiar with the intricacies of the OS X Open Directory system and know that they have put in the work to make it work well and be compatible. It is not impossible and certainly worth considering before writing it off. Of course it may be that it is too much work to implement something similar. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Why Ubuntu is not ready for prime time
On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:57 AM, Mat Tomaszewski wrote: I'd personally hesitate to offer any of the above to my wife, mum, or anyone who I know is not deeply into all things web. Would you? I'm very curious what are the experiences of people here, would be great to hear your stories and opinions on that. Most likely not. If I turned somebody on to Ubuntu that wasn't a stranger on the street, I would be forced to admit to myself that most likely *I* will become the main support resource, which will probably end up with me posting to forums/IRC/lists. At least until such time as they are educated enough to be more self sufficient. -Steve -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
