Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 07:11 -0500, Evan Dandrea wrote: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > Thank you very much to take the time to write up this detailed and > visually stunning report. You're welcome, and thanks for the detailed reply! > > A good live system should have: > > - drive icons for easy mounting > > Go to Places -> Computer, double click on any volume. That's what I did. It let me to wish for icons directly on the desktop ;) > > - an option to save preferences to disk (or to make a package for online > > storage) > > This already exists: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent This seems to be about having everything on a USB stick. I thought of a package you can put on any media or load to and from the web. Of course, such ideas are only cheap to describe and always plentiful ;) > > In Computer, the drives are listed with names like 14.0 GB Volume. > > Seeing the size is helpful, but not enough to identify drives that are > > named by the hda/sda convention elsewhere. Mounted disks are > > labelled disk, disk-1 ... . Too generic and no connection with previous > > name. Also counting from zero, which should be left in the coding realm. > > My understanding is that it uses the disk label, when it exists. I > could be wrong, but this is nevertheless outside the scope of the > installer. I wouldn't be surprised if my disk labels aren't set. I had to wonder quite a bit which partition was which. > > The User Switcher applet shouldn't appear with only one user. > > Again, outside the scope of the installer, but you'll need to provide > solid examples of how it decreases usability if you're going to > convince anyone that it needs to go. In the best case it is ignored. In the worst case the users wastes a few minutes on it, trying to figure out what it is good for. I've seen inexperienced users exploring unknown interfaces - it can be a astonishingly slow process. Users of single account machines don't ever need to be confronted with it. > Now, I really like your partitioner mockups and will be looking for a > way to incorporate what ideas I can from them. Though I don't want to > diverge too much from the already agreed upon specifications and my > time is limited, so we'll have to wait and see. Most of it may have to > wait until after the LTS is out. Feel free to contact me if you need adaptions, variations played through in mockups or just the sources of what I have already. Recently, I have been thinking about removing the info text about required partitions. Having 2 categories in the list instead: "Required" and "Optional". The "Required" category containing to fixed entries for root and swap. Interaction for "Optional" partitions/mount-points might become tricky, though. > Modifying ubiquity to replicate this mockup is not a small code change, > and because the difference is minor I'm inclined to deal with this at a > lower priority. I do like the idea of being able to jump back to > individual pages without hitting the back button a lot, though. The page links would go well with having numbered page icons on the bottom of the window, in place of "Step i of n". A page's icon would change appearance and become clickable after the page has been reached once. > > If you want to encourage users to take part in the package usage > > survey, the option shouldn't be hidden behind a scary Advanced. > > I didn't put it there, but I imagine it's there precisely because we > don't think most users should see it. To my knowledge we do not use > the data for much of anything. In that case, it should be considered to remove it. I guess the data of only the curious and "daring" users isn't worth much ;) > > Installer unmounting problem > > Did you let the installer try to unmount the partition by hitting > 'continue'? Was it unsuccessful? I think I did and it was unsuccessful. Has been a while, though. Let me know if there's something else I should do with respect to my report. Thanks for the great response! -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 22:30 +, (=?utf-8?q?=60=60-=5F-=C2=B4=C2=B4?=) -- Fernando wrote: > On Monday 07 January 2008 21:10:41 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > > 10GB is more than enough under normal usage. You'd have to install..all of > > GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment...and it still wouldn't be full. Even with all > > that and a lot more, I'm at around 7GB full. > > > > On Jan 7, 2008 4:05 PM, Mario Vukelic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:50 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > > > > One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is > > > > creating separate / and /home partitions by default. > > > > > > While a separate /home makes reinstalls easier, how would you know the > > > size of / the user needs? > > $ df -h > FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/sda1 9.7G 6.5G 2.7G 71% / > > 10 GiBs for small disks, and 20GiBs should be enough for most beginners and > powerusers. > Even powerfull users will most probably set extra mountpoints. > You might want to bear in mind that /tmp is on /, not /home. A number of apps (k3b, for example) sometimes want to write large files (such as 9GB DVD images) there temporarily, and it's puzzling for a user when Gnome says "13Gb available disk space" but writing a 9Gb file fails. Partitioning up hard drive space in this manner is not trivial, and the least surprising option seems to be the standard just-one-partition layout. If we really want to push the convenience of multiple partitions by default, I think we'd need something more dynamic. A totally blue-sky idea would be something like: default to LVM, with /, /home, swap, /whatever logical volumes and a daemon that watches disk usage and lvextends a logical volume once it gets over 75% full (or, for added bonus points, when some process wants to allocate a file that would push the usage over 75%). Or something. I don't think the benefits of a separate /home are sufficient to offset the unexpected failure-cases introduced. Especially since the benefits are mostly only for power users who will likely set up their own partitioning scheme. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 20:16 +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > holidays ;) Thorsten, Thank you very much to take the time to write up this detailed and visually stunning report. I've CC'ed Colin, Matt, and Celeste, whom I think might be interested in this discussion. I encourage them to chime in if they notice a technical error, disparity between what I've written and what we discussed in the past, or a usability nightmare. Previously, Celeste Lyn Paul was kind enough to provide us with a usability test for the Kubuntu desktop installer [1], and out of discussions at this past FOSSCamp and Ubuntu Developer's Summit with her, Matthew Paul Thomas (the original author of the UI portions of the Ubiquity specification), Colin Watson, and several other interested parties, we were able to come up with a plan for improving the usability experience in Ubiquity over the course of the next two releases. The relevant specifications for this are: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardy-ubiquity-usability https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardy-ubiquity-reliability As the former is somewhat sparse on the finer details (we lost some of the notes at the usability session :-/), I'll go through your report item by item and discuss where it already overlaps with current plans, where you have good ideas, and where I disagree: > What if the user can't read English? It should be considered to start with > language selection before presenting anything else. That's actually the current plan. The language selection page will be shown prior to the isolinux menu. Colin is taking care of this. > Language and keymap menus should allow type-ahead (hit D for a lan- > guage starting with D). This would be a good bite-sized task for someone with adequate time and experience. > F4 VGA reads like it's about VGA options. Well, it is. I don't think we want this option to be as easily discoverable. The user should be using the VGA options only when booting into the desktop CD environment fails. > F2 and F3 are followed by labels, not the chosen option, so the same > should apply here. This was discussed at FOSSCamp. The language option is going away, so that's not relevant, but I don't recall what was decided with respect to the keymap option. I'll get back to you on that. > If the Help menu is up, all F keys except F1 have another meaning. So > the legend on the bottom should be hidden. Ah, that's an oversight. > The user must know / figure out the use of F keys, arrow keys, Escape > and Enter. An attempt at providing some help: I recall something just like this being proposed before, but I cannot find a record of it. Nevertheless, it looks like a good idea. > Bug #61050 The live system doesn't pick up the choice of key-map from text > mode, >but defaults to English instead. The installer ignores both the > text mode >choice and the live system preference. This is actually LP: #181440, a recent bug that only affects Hardy. > For installation, it would be better to: > - start the installer automatically > - hide all irrelevant preferences > - hide all productivity applications that make only sense if you can save > to somewhere In Gutsy we added the ubiquity-only boot option, which lets you start the installer in a minimal graphical environment. For Hardy, we plan to reduce the number of options presented in the isolinux main menu, as well as add "Install Ubuntu" and "Try Ubuntu" options, with the former starting with ubiquity-only and the latter starting in the environment you're already familiar with (it will still include a Install shortcut). > A good live system should have: > - drive icons for easy mounting Go to Places -> Computer, double click on any volume. > - an option to save preferences to disk (or to make a package for online > storage) This already exists: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent > In Computer, the drives are listed with names like 14.0 GB Volume. > Seeing the size is helpful, but not enough to identify drives that are > named by the hda/sda convention elsewhere. Mounted disks are > labelled disk, disk-1 ... . Too generic and no connection with previous > name. Also counting from zero, which should be left in the coding realm. My understanding is that it uses the disk label, when it exists. I could be wrong, but this is nevertheless outside the scope of the installer. > The User Switcher applet shouldn't appear with only one user. Again, outside the scope of the installer, but you'll need to provide solid examples of how it decre
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Jan 8, 2008 11:30 PM, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 07 January 2008 21:10:41 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > > 10GB is more than enough under normal usage. You'd have to install..all of > > GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment...and it still wouldn't be full. Even with all > > that and a lot more, I'm at around 7GB full. > > > > On Jan 7, 2008 4:05 PM, Mario Vukelic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:50 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > > > > One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is > > > > creating separate / and /home partitions by default. > > > > > > While a separate /home makes reinstalls easier, how would you know the > > > size of / the user needs? > > $ df -h > FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/sda1 9.7G 6.5G 2.7G 71% / > > 10 GiBs for small disks, and 20GiBs should be enough for most beginners and > powerusers. > Even powerfull users will most probably set extra mountpoints. > No (licensing or other) flame war intended but I can't refrain from thinking that using ZFS [1] would solve this stupid reccuring question. Does any one here have any hint about any hope getting ZFS working well with linux ? (I only know about a FUSE port, progressing slowly). This is currently the only thing trying to push me away from debian/ubuntu ;) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zfs -- Aurélien Naldi -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Monday 07 January 2008 21:10:41 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > 10GB is more than enough under normal usage. You'd have to install..all of > GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment...and it still wouldn't be full. Even with all > that and a lot more, I'm at around 7GB full. > > On Jan 7, 2008 4:05 PM, Mario Vukelic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:50 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > > > One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is > > > creating separate / and /home partitions by default. > > > > While a separate /home makes reinstalls easier, how would you know the > > size of / the user needs? $ df -h FilesystemSize Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 9.7G 6.5G 2.7G 71% / 10 GiBs for small disks, and 20GiBs should be enough for most beginners and powerusers. Even powerfull users will most probably set extra mountpoints. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 17:51 +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > Let's hope it won't be forgotten in the depth of the ML, like many > > other great things... Have you directly contacted the authors? > > An email to Colin Watson (installer team leader), no answer. > Hmm, yes, maybe I should contact the debian installer authors. I would kindly advise against that. While debian-installer forms the base code for ubiquity, the Ubuntu desktop CD installer, the interface code is an entirely separate body of work maintained by the Ubuntu Installer Team. So being something that they don't themselves use, the Debian developers would probably have little interest in this subject. I imagine the reason you have not gotten a response from Colin yet is that he has been on holiday, and most certainly has a large backlog of email. But please be patient, I am finishing up a reply to your original email now. Thanks, Evan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 13:13 +0100, Nicolas Deschildre wrote: > Very nice review, a lot of attention to detail. Thanks! > Let's hope it won't be forgotten in the depth of the ML, like many > other great things... Have you directly contacted the authors? An email to Colin Watson (installer team leader), no answer. Hmm, yes, maybe I should contact the debian installer authors. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 16:45 -0500, Vadim Peretokin wrote: > That's a very nice pdf. One minor thing: Thanks! Also thanks for all the other supportive comments :) > User Switching > The User Switcher applet shouldn't appear with only one user. > > I think it should, to let the use familiarize themselves. It'll be a > bit disorienting (like where did that come from?) if the applet > suddenly appeared after the installation. There's no real getting to know the user switcher with only one account. I think it should only ever appear if and as soon as there is more than one account. In all other cases it's just noise. Not central at all, though ;) -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
Very nice review, a lot of attention to detail. Let's hope it won't be forgotten in the depth of the ML, like many other great things... Have you directly contacted the authors? Nicolas On Jan 7, 2008 8:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > holidays ;) > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
That's a very nice pdf. One minor thing: User Switching The User Switcher applet shouldn't appear with only one user. I think it should, to let the use familiarize themselves. It'll be a bit disorienting (like where did that come from?) if the applet suddenly appeared after the installation. On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > holidays ;) > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On 07/01/2008, Bryan Quigley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just wanted to say awesome job! > A previous effort: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExplainingUbiquity > > Among the items listed in there and not in yours are: > > Label disks by diskname. Be careful with meaningful names, you need to ensure uniqueness. Redhat labelled disks as home, root etc and if you then plugged in a disk with that had another redhat install on it, it was down to luck which disk particular root, home, boot etc got mounted! Messy, F > (auto)Magically do timezone (If connected to internet, LinuxMCE can do > this) > I really like the idea of setting up the language and keymap at bootup. > Thanks, > Bryan > > > > On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > > > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > > holidays ;) > > > > -- > > Thorsten Wilms > > > > thorwil's design for free software: > > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
10GB is more than enough under normal usage. You'd have to install..all of GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment...and it still wouldn't be full. Even with all that and a lot more, I'm at around 7GB full. On Jan 7, 2008 4:05 PM, Mario Vukelic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:50 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > > One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is > > creating separate / and /home partitions by default. > > While a separate /home makes reinstalls easier, how would you know the > size of / the user needs? > -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:50 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is > creating separate / and /home partitions by default. While a separate /home makes reinstalls easier, how would you know the size of / the user needs? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
One thing I've been thinking would be good for quite some time is creating separate / and /home partitions by default. So when a user selects "Use entire disk", it would create a /home. And certainly when a user creates a / and then creates another partition, it should be /home by default rather than /boot (which I believe it is now). On Jan 8, 2008 9:44 AM, Evan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I also like the concept of setting the language and keymap at boot. The > other minor adjustments in wording etc. also look good. > > IMHO one of the most important possible adjustments to ubiquity would be > to recognize partitions by OS installed, and label them that way. I don't > know the code structure, but I imagine that it would be possible to > integrate the same OS detector that is used in the files&settings import > manager. > > Considerably more complicated would be to determine the mount points of > partitions without OSs on them. A possible example then would be: > > Windows XP - 25GB > Ubuntu 7.04 - 25GB > (Windows D:) or (Ubuntu /home/data) - 150GB > > I know the mount point detection is difficult (at least for non-linux OSs; > reading fstab shouldn't be too tricky), but the OS detection is far more > important. > > Just my two cents. > > On Jan 7, 2008 3:05 PM, Jonathan Musther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Agreed. I don't know why gparted was abandoned, it provided a more user > > friendly way to do things. I like the proposal here too! > > > > > > On Jan 8, 2008 9:00 AM, Mackenzie Morgan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Wow, that's very thorough. I particularly like the partitioning > > > suggestions, since that seems to be the hardest thing to explain, and > > > Partman (that's what's in the new installer right?) feels uncomfortable. > > > Switching from GParted to Partman resulted in a more geeky interface, IMO. > > > I partition with GParted before starting the installer to avoid having to > > > use Partman now, but that thing where the live system auto-mounts the > > > partitions after you make them (which you showed in there) is really > > > annoying since it often fails on making the filesystem because of it (I'm > > > always racing to unmount the partitions as fast as possible). > > > > > > > > > On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > > > > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > > > > > > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if > > > > there's > > > > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > > > > > > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > > > > holidays ;) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Thorsten Wilms > > > > > > > > thorwil's design for free software: > > > > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mackenzie Morgan > > > Linux User #432169 > > > ACM Member #3445683 > > > http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff > > > apt-get moo > > > -- > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Slingshot - a unique game everyone enjoys - and it's free :-) > > http://www.slingshot-game.org > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Slingshot - a unique game everyone enjoys - and it's free :-) http://www.slingshot-game.org -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
I also like the concept of setting the language and keymap at boot. The other minor adjustments in wording etc. also look good. IMHO one of the most important possible adjustments to ubiquity would be to recognize partitions by OS installed, and label them that way. I don't know the code structure, but I imagine that it would be possible to integrate the same OS detector that is used in the files&settings import manager. Considerably more complicated would be to determine the mount points of partitions without OSs on them. A possible example then would be: Windows XP - 25GB Ubuntu 7.04 - 25GB (Windows D:) or (Ubuntu /home/data) - 150GB I know the mount point detection is difficult (at least for non-linux OSs; reading fstab shouldn't be too tricky), but the OS detection is far more important. Just my two cents. On Jan 7, 2008 3:05 PM, Jonathan Musther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Agreed. I don't know why gparted was abandoned, it provided a more user > friendly way to do things. I like the proposal here too! > > > On Jan 8, 2008 9:00 AM, Mackenzie Morgan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Wow, that's very thorough. I particularly like the partitioning > > suggestions, since that seems to be the hardest thing to explain, and > > Partman (that's what's in the new installer right?) feels uncomfortable. > > Switching from GParted to Partman resulted in a more geeky interface, IMO. > > I partition with GParted before starting the installer to avoid having to > > use Partman now, but that thing where the live system auto-mounts the > > partitions after you make them (which you showed in there) is really > > annoying since it often fails on making the filesystem because of it (I'm > > always racing to unmount the partitions as fast as possible). > > > > > > On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > > > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > > > > > > > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > > > > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if > > > there's > > > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > > > > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > > > holidays ;) > > > > > > -- > > > Thorsten Wilms > > > > > > thorwil's design for free software: > > > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mackenzie Morgan > > Linux User #432169 > > ACM Member #3445683 > > http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff > > apt-get moo > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > > -- > Slingshot - a unique game everyone enjoys - and it's free :-) > http://www.slingshot-game.org > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 09:05 +1300, Jonathan Musther wrote: > Agreed. I don't know why gparted was abandoned, it provided a more > user friendly way to do things. I like the proposal here too! > GParted was abandoned because it was actually just an embedded window rather than an actual component of the installer, which lead to a whole host of bugs. The interactive communication that we have with the partitioner backend now, which allows us to determine what options are available to the user based on certain criteria, would not be possible with the GParted hack. We also would not be able to handle advanced partitioning in a single page like we do now. I'm sure there's more, but it's been a long time since we used GParted and my memory is a little fuzzy on every good reason we had for ripping it out. The current UI needs work to be as usable as GParted, but such work is in progress, with more planned in the future. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
Agreed. I don't know why gparted was abandoned, it provided a more user friendly way to do things. I like the proposal here too! On Jan 8, 2008 9:00 AM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wow, that's very thorough. I particularly like the partitioning > suggestions, since that seems to be the hardest thing to explain, and > Partman (that's what's in the new installer right?) feels uncomfortable. > Switching from GParted to Partman resulted in a more geeky interface, IMO. > I partition with GParted before starting the installer to avoid having to > use Partman now, but that thing where the live system auto-mounts the > partitions after you make them (which you showed in there) is really > annoying since it often fails on making the filesystem because of it (I'm > always racing to unmount the partitions as fast as possible). > > > On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > > holidays ;) > > > > -- > > Thorsten Wilms > > > > thorwil's design for free software: > > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > -- > Mackenzie Morgan > Linux User #432169 > ACM Member #3445683 > http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff > apt-get moo > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Slingshot - a unique game everyone enjoys - and it's free :-) http://www.slingshot-game.org -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
Wow, that's very thorough. I particularly like the partitioning suggestions, since that seems to be the hardest thing to explain, and Partman (that's what's in the new installer right?) feels uncomfortable. Switching from GParted to Partman resulted in a more geeky interface, IMO. I partition with GParted before starting the installer to avoid having to use Partman now, but that thing where the live system auto-mounts the partitions after you make them (which you showed in there) is really annoying since it often fails on making the filesystem because of it (I'm always racing to unmount the partitions as fast as possible). On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > holidays ;) > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
I just wanted to say awesome job! A previous effort: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExplainingUbiquity Among the items listed in there and not in yours are: - Label disks by diskname. - (auto)Magically do timezone (If connected to internet, LinuxMCE can do this) I really like the idea of setting up the language and keymap at bootup. Thanks, Bryan On Jan 7, 2008 2:16 PM, Thorsten Wilms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. > > The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the > holidays ;) > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > thorwil's design for free software: > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 20:16 +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > Hi! > > I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several > mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: > > http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf > > Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's > interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. Nice walkthrough and mockups. Some comments: Page 11 Language change. I really like both your suggestions. Page 12 Abort installation. I think yes and no buttons would be the clearest since the question asked is a really yes/no question. Page 15. I like the Idea with a map showing the timezones instead of the current map. Regards, /Magnus -- http://theworldofapenguin.blogspot.com -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
A Look at the Ubuntu Installer
Hi! I did a walk-through and compiled issues, suggestions and several mockups regarding the Ubuntu installation: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu_installer_thorwil.pdf Any comments welcome. I'm willing to refine things where and if there's interest. I could file requests if that's deemed helpful. The document is actually a bit older, but I decided to wait past the holidays ;) -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
