Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Il giorno mer, 24/06/2009 alle 08.23 +0200, Martin Pitt ha scritto: We don't propose to retroactively default to it in Jaunty. :-) Of course we will revert to Pidgin if Empathy doesn't get stable/useful enough by Karmic beta. Thank you for noting this. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Martin Pitt wrote: Andrew Sayers [2009-06-22 19:04 +0100]: There's currently a big push to make Empathy the default IM client in Karmic, even though the version in Jaunty still has grave issues - for example, MSN doesn't work at all for me[1]. We don't propose to retroactively default to it in Jaunty. :-) Hi Martin, My point here wasn't clear - Empathy hasn't had a full round of testing in a stable version of Ubuntu, because the version in Jaunty isn't usable as a day-to-day IM client. Discussions in this thread and the guidelines thread show that it's not even going to have a full round of testing in an alpha/beta, because the version in Karmic also isn't usable as a day-to-day IM client. I'm glad to hear that upstream is so active, but a usable version will have to land very soon in order for the small band of Karmic testers to give it enough use to clear out all the bugs that will come from a large number of Ubuntu newbies. I'll ask again nearer the time about how things are progressing. - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 11:39 +0100, Andrew Sayers wrote: I'm glad to hear that upstream is so active, but a usable version will have to land very soon in order for the small band of Karmic testers to give it enough use to clear out all the bugs that will come from a large number of Ubuntu newbies. I'll ask again nearer the time about how things are progressing. How difficult would it be to produce a Jaunty backport as well? Does Empath have many dependencies on packages that are only in Karmic? I'd be glad to test, but can't run Karmic as yet because I depend on my computers for work. Cheers, M. S. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Il giorno lun, 22/06/2009 alle 19.04 +0100, Andrew Sayers ha scritto: The plan is to make sure that these bugs are all fixed in time for Karmic, but what's the backup plan if there are still showstoppers when the release starts to get closer? More precisely, when, where and how should people speak up if Empathy still has showstopping bugs? The usual backup plan in ubuntu is: ignore the problem early, because we have time, and ignore the problem later, because we are late :) Please take this with a bit of irony, but isn't this happening again? For how much I personally hate anything starting with MS including the cigarettes :P the MSN protocol is a must work thing. If it does not work, pidgin should remain the default. One thing is to push usage of the new one, to receive more feedback and be encouraged to work on it, one other thing is to release broken things, which causes laughters in undecided users who could even switch back to windows. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Andrew Sayersandrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org wrote: There's currently a big push to make Empathy the default IM client in Karmic, even though the version in Jaunty still has grave issues - for example, MSN doesn't work at all for me[1]. I'm assuming there will be a lot of upstream resources going into this as it seems to be the big issue preventing Empathy from being fairly feature complete for average use (along with maybe OTR) compared to Pidgin. The plan is to make sure that these bugs are all fixed in time for Karmic, but what's the backup plan if there are still showstoppers when the release starts to get closer? More precisely, when, where and how should people speak up if Empathy still has showstopping bugs? Well, people should just be filing bugs. As the Desktop Team tracks the bugs that are coming in they can milestone them, push them upstream, and get a general overview of Empathy's suitability as default. I believe the spec calls for the final evaluation at Feature Freeze (August 27th). My guess would be that Empathy makes it. Being promoted to the default Ubuntu app would be quite motivating to developers I'd think and they want to make a good impression. Obviously it would be undesirable to try retrofitting Pidgin back in after the feature freeze, but I could see arguments for requiring notification earlier (default apps need more time) or later (Pidgin's already been well tested). Feature Freeze is the defining milestone for this sort of thing in Ubuntu. Putting Pidgin back in would be a very easy thing to do since it's already default and it's going to be removed from Ubuntu altogether or anything like that. It should be just a s/empathy/pidgin/ in the desktop seed. -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
Yes, people should be filing bugs. Or they might be like me -- I had a two hour long conversation with a colleague, and *expected* that the conversation would be logged -- lo and behold, only the last 15 minutes or so of the conversation ended up being logged, and I lost a good deal of valuable conversation. I wouldn't know where to start troubleshooting this bug, especially since I don't really feel like copying and pasting lines of conversation every few minutes to a text editor because I don't have basic trust in the IM app. It's one thing to have usability flaws, or have video not working, or etc. -- but to not have logging working perfectly in an app that is supposed to be replacing a very mature app? It's horrifying, but it's exactly something that Ubuntu seems to have no problem with. I for one, was testing Empathy, but it's clearly not even close to ready for me, and I will be going back to Pidgin -- I just hope that the other testers will not be equally frustrated, since that will end up making the release even more half baked, since we'll all assume that there are few problems - when in reality, problems aren't being discovered because the app is so immature. It's not as if the app has been in universe for a cycle, and is now being promoted to main and chosen as default -- it was hard to get it going in Jaunty, and it clearly doesn't have a whole lot of exposure to the community. Really though -- basic logging not working -- how many other weird bugs are in there? :( -Asif On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Jordan Manthalaserj...@ubuntu.com wrote: Well, people should just be filing bugs. As the Desktop Team tracks the bugs that are coming in they can milestone them, push them upstream, and get a general overview of Empathy's suitability as default. I believe the spec calls for the final evaluation at Feature Freeze (August 27th). My guess would be that Empathy makes it. Being promoted to the default Ubuntu app would be quite motivating to developers I'd think and they want to make a good impression. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Fallback plan if Empathy isn't ready for Karmic?
There's currently a big push to make Empathy the default IM client in Karmic, even though the version in Jaunty still has grave issues - for example, MSN doesn't work at all for me[1]. The plan is to make sure that these bugs are all fixed in time for Karmic, but what's the backup plan if there are still showstoppers when the release starts to get closer? More precisely, when, where and how should people speak up if Empathy still has showstopping bugs? Obviously it would be undesirable to try retrofitting Pidgin back in after the feature freeze, but I could see arguments for requiring notification earlier (default apps need more time) or later (Pidgin's already been well tested). - Andrew [1]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/haze/+bug/338891 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
