Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 11:46:24PM +0300, pec...@gmail.com wrote: No, it is not the plan. Current GNOME Panel maitaner claimed that he will support it as long as there will be neccessity. And bear in mind that even if he drops towel, someone can take his place (not everyone of course, but if there is enough need for that, someone will step up). Mesa will shortly be sufficient for running gnome-shell even on systems without hardware 3D. At that point there won't be any necessity for gnome panel, although it's possible that someone will want to maintain it anyway. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Francis Bolduc fbol...@gmail.com wrote: I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? Adapt and move on. And what is with the thing about do not recognizing icons? Do you have some psychological disability or are you just stubborn? (I am being serious here). Am I missing something or the interface and the workflow I've been using, and depending on, for the last 6 years is endangered? Not at all. No one said you need to upgrade, to begin with. Second, it is free software. Don't like what you see? Download the source, compile and be happy. You can even run gnome 1 if you want, sources are around. If you want to stay using the latest version of GNOME, well, things are changing and are not under the control of Ubuntu. It is responsibility of the GNOME team, and decisions were already made. If you upgrade, you agree with them. It is that simple. -- [] Alexandre Strube, PhD su...@ubuntu.com -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On 5 May 2011 09:55, Alexandre Strube su...@surak.eti.br wrote: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Francis Bolduc fbol...@gmail.com wrote: I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? Adapt and move on. And what is with the thing about do not recognizing icons? Do you have some psychological disability or are you just stubborn? (I am being serious here). Am I missing something or the interface and the workflow I've been using, and depending on, for the last 6 years is endangered? Not at all. No one said you need to upgrade, to begin with. This is clearly not a long-term solution. At some point, not even security fixes will be available and then upgrading will be unavoidable. There are lots of reasons to want to upgrade before that point. Second, it is free software. Don't like what you see? Download the source, compile and be happy. You can even run gnome 1 if you want, sources are around. Ubuntu is a product and this is a user, possibly even a paying customer for all you know. He is explaining why recent changes make him unhappy with the product. Ubuntu should listen to him. They don't have to agree with him or make any changes because of one user. The idea that rather than providing feedback, unhappy users should just go roll their own version benefits no one. I hope it is not the opinion of anyone of any importance within Ubuntu, F If you want to stay using the latest version of GNOME, well, things are changing and are not under the control of Ubuntu. It is responsibility of the GNOME team, and decisions were already made. If you upgrade, you agree with them. It is that simple. -- [] Alexandre Strube, PhD su...@ubuntu.com -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 22:52 -0400, Francis Bolduc wrote: Then, I started reading about Unity on the web. I found out that in the next version of Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Classic session will be dropped, leaving me with a choice between Unity and GNOME 3. Not knowing what GNOME 3 was, I decided to try it that same day. To my dismay, I realized that GNOME 3 comes with GNOME Shell and it suffers from the same flaws as Unity (those listed above). Finally, I was shocked to learn that GNOME 3 will not include the GNOME Panel I like so much. fallback session for GNOME3 includes the gnome-panel, with a lot of improvements: http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/04/13/gnome-panel-is-dead,-long-live-gnome-panel! cheers -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
From: Jeremy Bicha jer...@bicha.net Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 23:24:17 -0400 Unity actually is customizable, perhaps not to the extent that power users like. I'm hoping that a simple user-friendly tool will be available in 11.04 to change the settings without needing to dig around CCSM or dconf-editor. I think you mean 11.10? After all the bad press, I finally tried Unity out yesterday, and was shocked to discover that I like it quite a bit and think it has tremendous potential -- nice work, guys. I'll post a list of suggested updates for Unity 2.0 after a bit more experimentation. (Also note by way of setting a frame of reference that I prefer using text-keyboard-based interfaces and hate smart phones and iPads; hence particularly appreciate the care given to keyboard shortcuts/equivalents.) Meanwhile, this excellent reference might be of use to people trying to get up to speed quickly using Unity. Note especially the links on customizing Unity; in particular, disabling the global application menu, which is the single most unfortunate design decision for point-to-focus users (and frankly anyone that works with non-maximized windows): The Power User’s Guide to Unity http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On 05/05/2011 09:22 AM, Bilal Akhtar wrote: Hello there! As you've said, in Ubuntu 11.10 users will have the option to install GNOME 3 + Shell instead of Unity. One thing to note is that GNOME Panel hasn't died (yet), its still being actively developed as a GNOME Shell fallback for systems with GPUs not being able to run GNOME Shell. GNOME Panel 3 will be in the Ubuntu repositories in 11.10. Bilal, I don't think it will be maintained for a long time. Once they find that most of the people have migrated, they might stop maintaining it. AFAIK this is the plan. If you can get this cross-checked. -- Manish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
2011/5/5 Manish Sinha manishsinha.t...@gmail.com: On 05/05/2011 09:22 AM, Bilal Akhtar wrote: Hello there! As you've said, in Ubuntu 11.10 users will have the option to install GNOME 3 + Shell instead of Unity. One thing to note is that GNOME Panel hasn't died (yet), its still being actively developed as a GNOME Shell fallback for systems with GPUs not being able to run GNOME Shell. GNOME Panel 3 will be in the Ubuntu repositories in 11.10. Bilal, I don't think it will be maintained for a long time. Once they find that most of the people have migrated, they might stop maintaining it. AFAIK this is the plan. If you can get this cross-checked. No, it is not the plan. Current GNOME Panel maitaner claimed that he will support it as long as there will be neccessity. And bear in mind that even if he drops towel, someone can take his place (not everyone of course, but if there is enough need for that, someone will step up). Cheers, Peter. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
Thanks for all the answers. I'll try to give a few answers of my own to questions and concerns that were addressed directly to me. Jeremy: You're right about misconceptions. I had to dig quite a bit to find the few items of verfiable information about the future of Ubuntu and GNOME concerning the GNOME Panel. Thanks for the precision. I did not know that there will be a GNOME 3 Panel similar to GNOME 2 Panel. I'll look at it. Also I agree that Unity lacks customizability. Maybe in it's next incarnation I'll be able to remove the big icons and have a tree-like textual menu. Delan: I'm currently downloading a couple of ISO to try out other distributions, something which I have not done in years. However, I think I'll find Ubuntu quite hard to replace, but I reserve my final judgement for later. Daniel: False dichotomy if I consider all the alternatives. True dichotomy if I add the arbitrary requirement that I must stay up-to-date with all the new Ubuntu releases. I do know that there are alternatives that could easily fit my need. For instance, I'm quite familiar with XFCE and could switch to XUbuntu for 11.10 and avoid Unity and GNOME Shell altogether. However, I'll try hard to stick with Ubuntu and this message thread is my attempt at finding out if I should try harder or forget about it and go with the alternatives. Bilal: That is a comforting thought. I'm looking forward to try GNOME 3 Panel. Alexandre: When computers are concerned, I'm usually stubborn and conservative. I know exactly what I like and dislike and I do everything I can to get rid of what I dislike on my own computer. As you can imagine, my desktop environment has remained pretty much the same for the last 6 years. So I've grown accustomed to associate programs to their names instead of their icons. For example, when I think of the Appearance dialog, what I have in mind is the string Appearance, not the shirt icon. Of course I'll recognize some icons, but it's genuinely harder for me to look at a screen full of icons arranged in a grid than it is to scan a single column of text. As for forking Ubuntu and doing it my way; there is such a thing as programmer respect. I'd rather support Ubuntu than divide it. However, I do want to voice my opinion (and those of my less outspoken firends) on the Desktop Environment direction of Ubuntu. Fergal: I share your opinion. Providing feedback benefits the project. Rodrigo: Yes, I'll look it up. Patrick: Thanks for the link. -- Francis Bolduc, B.Sc. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Friday, May 06, 2011 12:23:40 AM Francis Bolduc wrote: When computers are concerned, I'm usually stubborn and conservative. I know exactly what I like and dislike and I do everything I can to get rid of what I dislike on my own computer. JFTR, that sounds a lot like the KDE target audience. My experience with seeing other long term Gnome users switch is that they are initially overwhelmed by the number of options and the customability, but once they get over trying to tweak everything, just because they can, and take a little time to get to know the environment and what works for them, it often turns out pretty good. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
JFTR, that sounds a lot like the KDE target audience. My experience with seeing other long term Gnome users switch is that they are initially overwhelmed by the number of options and the customability, but once they get over trying to tweak everything, just because they can, and take a little time to get to know the environment and what works for them, it often turns out pretty good. I'd be extremely interested to learn more about the experiences of other long-term GNOME Panel users who switched to Unity. I imagine we're all struggling with the same kind of problems. Their feedback might help me find a way to make it work for me. Are there any studies of that kind available? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
Hi Francis, I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? You may get a 'better' answer from someone who is more involved in Ubuntu development, and this is my opinion. Being a moderately long user of Ubuntu (though I wasn't there from the start), I've watched as Ubuntu evolved through its versions, and I, personally, have been disappointed by 11.04, and, to a lesser extent, 10.10. This may stem from what, in my opinion, is Ubuntu's long-term vision to be a big commercial player on all form factors. There are other OSes which have superior package management and avoid restricting you in any way. About three months ago, I had completely switched from Ubuntu to Gentoo (though I use Debian for computers that are too slow to feasibly compile a whole OS). Gentoo is a source-based OS with a brilliant package manager, Portage, that automates the building and installing process, along with any customisations that you would like, just like building from source externally. Portage also has a feature called 'slots' where you can install different major versions of packages, often multiple at once. This makes installing the real Gnome 2 (which is at version 2.32 as far I as I remember) easy. Contrary to my expectations, Gentoo is actually very easy to use and doesn't get in my way. Installing Gentoo is more involved than Ubuntu, as you must set up some things manually, but it is smooth if you follow the instructions on the Gentoo website. I hope that my advice helped you. Thanks and best regards, Delan Azabani -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GNOME Panel dropped in 11.10
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Francis Bolduc fbol...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm a software developer and I like to have updated development tools every 6 months ... I'm left with this dilemma. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fits my needs. What am I going to do in 6 months? A false dichotomy. You have numerous choices if you wish to stay with Ubuntu and its derivatives: * Don't upgrade * Install a parallel desktop environment, e.g., kubuntu-desktop, and evaluate its workflow with your current one * Pin (apt-dpkg) your desktop environment and perform an upgrade * Upgrade only your development tools Granted, some of those options require more intervention. -Dan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
