Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages (Prefix)
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 23:38:51 +0800 (GMT+08:00) From: Prefix pre...@pillowsky.org To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages Message-ID: AM*a6qdbaoxhb83ivhmo0aqm.1.1379691531529.hmail.pre...@pillowsky.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/attachments/20130920/5440da86/attachment-0001.html -- next part -- Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages! If we have a look at the maintainers of the packages in the Pool, we will find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. May be the purpose of this strategy is to ensure software quality, because all of the software are tested, modified(if needed), and rebuild by the Ubuntu Community. But, as for good developers like Mozilla, they have the ability to ensure the quality. I think it's not a good idea to assume that their softwares have bugs and need to be fixed by the Ubuntu Community. We are cooperated to bring the world a good OS, so we work on different fields and trust each other. What is more important is that, they know a lot more about their code than us. If a large project like Firefox contain bugs in their code and can't work well in Ubuntu, we have to waste a lot of time to learn the code tree, learn the algorithm in the program and finally find where the bug is, and fix it. But the Mozilla developers are familiar with the code and is possible to fix it within five minutes!This will happen if only Mozilla maintenance Firefox packages themselves, because they will develop on Ubuntu, build on Ubuntu, test on Ubuntu. Bugs will become less and less, and less time will be wasted on things just like reinventing the wheel! The new strategy has many additional good points: Let the software provider maintenance packages themselves can encourage them to pay more attention to Ubuntu, make the software more fit with Ubuntu. Always have 0-day support for new release. That's obvious! Software developers will officially support Ubuntu, and may recommand users to choice Ubuntu. I think a lot of good developers have the ability to maintenance packages themselves. Mozilla, LibreOffice, Gnome, Apache, php, MySQL, phpMyAdmin, Gimp, Inkscape, Scribus, Filezilla, Boinc, WordPress, etc. They contribute a lot and make excellent software, and we should trust them. I can talk only for Boinc, since I'm directly involved in it in debian and ubuntu (from autosync). I tried many times to report to upstream, we are in a very strict contact, and many times they fixed the problem (I backported sometimes patches). But many and many times I personally fix the issues, and I report the fix upstream. I'm not (yet) an upstream developer, but I think I have a good knowledge for fixing bugs in boinc package. And last, upstream isn't aware (AFAIK) of the debian packaging system, it will introduce a useless overhead in boinc handling. They release once or twice a year, maybe the improvements will come if they adopt on their machine the debian packages, this is why we are going to package the boinc-server-maker package too. Gianfranco It is in urgent need to accept the new strategy because many software like LibreOffice are not update in time. This shows we do not have enough staff to maintenance the packages. So it is time to change! Original arcitlce Link: http://blog.pillowsky.org I am a student in zhejiang University, China. May be my English is not so well -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages! If we have a look at the maintainers of the packages in the Pool, we will find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. May be the purpose of this strategy is to ensure software quality, because all of the software are tested, modified(if needed), and rebuild by the Ubuntu Community. But, as for good developers like Mozilla, they have the ability to ensure the quality. I think it's not a good idea to assume that their softwares have bugs and need to be fixed by the Ubuntu Community. We are cooperated to bring the world a good OS, so we work on different fields and trust each other. What is more important is that, they know a lot more about their code than us. If a large project like Firefox contain bugs in their code and can't work well in Ubuntu, we have to waste a lot of time to learn the code tree, learn the algorithm in the program and finally find where the bug is, and fix it. But the Mozilla developers are familiar with the code and is possible to fix it within five minutes!This will happen if only Mozilla maintenance Firefox packages themselves, because they will develop on Ubuntu, build on Ubuntu, test on Ubuntu. Bugs will become less and less, and less time will be wasted on things just like reinventing the wheel! The new strategy has many additional good points: Let the software provider maintenance packages themselves can encourage them to pay more attention to Ubuntu, make the software more fit with Ubuntu. Always have 0-day support for new release. That's obvious! Software developers will officially support Ubuntu, and may recommand users to choice Ubuntu. I think a lot of good developers have the ability to maintenance packages themselves. Mozilla, LibreOffice, Gnome, Apache, php, MySQL, phpMyAdmin, Gimp, Inkscape, Scribus, Filezilla, Boinc, WordPress, etc. They contribute a lot and make excellent software, and we should trust them. It is in urgent need to accept the new strategy because many software like LibreOffice are not update in time. This shows we do not have enough staff to maintenance the packages. So it is time to change! Original arcitlce Link: http://blog.pillowsky.org I am a student in zhejiang University, China. May be my English is not so well -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Hello Prefix, On 20.09.2013 17:38, Prefix wrote: What is more important is that, they know a lot more about their code than us. If a large project like Firefox contain bugs in their code and can't work well in Ubuntu, we have to waste a lot of time to learn the code tree, learn the algorithm in the program and finally find where the bug is, and fix it. But the Mozilla developers are familiar with the code and is possible to fix it within five minutes!This will happen if only Mozilla maintenance Firefox packages themselves, because they will develop on Ubuntu, build on Ubuntu, test on Ubuntu. Bugs will become less and less, and less time will be wasted on things just like reinventing the wheel! Sure. Upstream authors would be great to have very close to Ubuntu and actively involved in Ubuntu itself. Did you ask anyone at Mozilla if they were interested in maintaining packages in Ubuntu and take care of all the integration with Ubuntu? I might be wrong, but I get the impression that you seem to assume that integration in Ubuntu is an easy thing to do. While it'd be great if that was the case, you might just want to have a look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/firefox/+changelog to get an idea of what kind of changes were necessary to make Firefox work well in Saucy. In the interesting cases in our archive, you bring in a new version of a piece of software and it will have a big impact on many other packages. Balancing this out and putting work into making everything work nicely often is quite an achievement. If you have any proposals how Upstream authors could more easily get involved in Ubuntu, please bring them up here on the mailing list. Have a great day, Daniel -- Get involved in Ubuntu development! developer.ubuntu.com/packaging Follow @ubuntudev on identi.ca/twitter.com/facebook.com/G+ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Hi, On 20/09/13 16:38, Prefix wrote: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages! If we have a look at the maintainers of the packages in the Pool, we will find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. Well, thanks Regards - Chris (Ubuntu's Firefox maintainer. Not a software developer, apparently) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Post on ubuntuforum Link:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2175314 In the E-mail is just a summary. I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. As for good developers like Mozilla, they have the ability to ensure the quality. I think it's not a good idea to assume that their softwares have bugs and need to be fixed by the Ubuntu Community. We work on different fields and should trust each other. The new strategy has many additional points: Encourage them to pay more attention to Ubuntu. Always have 0-day support for new release. That's obvious! Software developers will officially support Ubuntu. It is in urgent need to accept the new strategy because many software like LibreOffice are not update in time. So it is time to change! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
On 20 September 2013 12:40, PillowSky pre...@pillowsky.org wrote: I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. It is in urgent need to accept the new strategy because many software like LibreOffice are not update in time. So it is time to change! Except Ubuntu's LibreOffice maintainer *is* a prominent LibreOffice developer. Many of the big pieces in Ubuntu are maintained by people who are also developers of those pieces. Jeremy -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Hello, On 20.09.2013 17:54, Chris Coulson wrote: On 20/09/13 16:38, Prefix wrote: If we have a look at the maintainers of the packages in the Pool, we will find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. Well, thanks I think what Prefix wanted to say was that it's not the software authors. Although that's still hard to find out, especially in bigger projects. Have a great day, Daniel -- Get involved in Ubuntu development! developer.ubuntu.com/packaging Follow @ubuntudev on identi.ca/twitter.com/facebook.com/G+ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
A Mozillian maintains the Mozilla packaged in Ubuntu albeit in the case of Firefox it is slightly different then what upstream ships and has some Canonical add-ons baked in. Upstream does not track performance data from Ubuntu's Firefox because of the differences from upstream. On Sep 20, 2013 9:41 AM, PillowSky pre...@pillowsky.org wrote: Post on ubuntuforum Link:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2175314 In the E-mail is just a summary. I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. As for good developers like Mozilla, they have the ability to ensure the quality. I think it's not a good idea to assume that their softwares have bugs and need to be fixed by the Ubuntu Community. We work on different fields and should trust each other. The new strategy has many additional points: Encourage them to pay more attention to Ubuntu. Always have 0-day support for new release. That's obvious! Software developers will officially support Ubuntu. It is in urgent need to accept the new strategy because many software like LibreOffice are not update in time. So it is time to change! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: Ubuntu was born less than 9 years ago. Of the most popular current distros, it's among the youngest. The more mature Mozilla developers picked their Linux distros before Ubuntu did more than a little maturing, 10-15 years ago, so these more experienced developers are mostly RedHat-Fedora (heavily Gnome/GTK), SuSE-openSUSE (more evenly KDE as Gnome), Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia (more strongly KDE than Gnome), Debian, Slackware and maybe a few other more mature distro users. Most devs don't switch distros willy nilly. Those Mozilla devs using *buntu are mostly younger and less experienced, and more likely volunteers than subsidized or salaried to work on Mozilla. I can' tell if you are serious or trolling right now. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
On 2013-09-20 13:13 (GMT-0500) Jordon Bedwell composed: Felix Miata wrote: Ubuntu was born less than 9 years ago. Of the most popular current distros, it's among the youngest. The more mature Mozilla developers picked their Linux distros before Ubuntu did more than a little maturing, 10-15 years ago, so these more experienced developers are mostly RedHat-Fedora (heavily Gnome/GTK), SuSE-openSUSE (more evenly KDE as Gnome), Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia (more strongly KDE than Gnome), Debian, Slackware and maybe a few other more mature distro users. Most devs don't switch distros willy nilly. Those Mozilla devs using *buntu are mostly younger and less experienced, and more likely volunteers than subsidized or salaried to work on Mozilla. I can' tell if you are serious or trolling right now. The following baker's dozen current email addresses belong to core bugzilla.mozilla.org bugs classified as either Linux or All platforms, changed at any time prior to 2004, in the capacity of assignee, QA, or reporter: aaronlev at gmail com akkzilla at shallowsky com asa at mozilla org bugs at pettay fi bzbarsky at mit edu dbaron at dbaron org hsivonen at hsivonen fi kairo at kairo at mcow at well com mozilla at davidbienvenu org rbs at maths uq edu au roc at ocallahan org timeless at bemail org Does anyone recognize any of them as reporter, owner or QA on bugs.launchpad.net, or even as commenter there, or on any of the *buntu forums? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 12:40 PM, PillowSky pre...@pillowsky.org wrote: Post on ubuntuforum Link:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2175314 In the E-mail is just a summary. I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. I always try to get upstream to lead or at least be involved in packaging (I just worked to make sure they're doing it in an archive-compatible way). However, the majority of the time upstream is not interested in packaging for any OS beyond a downloadable executable. Mozilla seems to follow that; they may not want to spend the resources to integrate into a specific linux distribution when they can distribute binaries. Some see Ubuntu packagers as blessings (free labor helping out with distribution) while others are frustrated (for modifying their source code to be policy compliant, not being able to update stable release versions for new features/bug fixes like your complaint). This may be something about which you should ask Mozilla. Ubuntu can't force Mozilla developers to work on packaging. Regards, Scott -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
On 2013-09-21 00:40 (GMT+0800) PillowSky composed: Post on ubuntuforum Link:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2175314 In the E-mail is just a summary. I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. Here's one reason why: Ubuntu was born less than 9 years ago. Of the most popular current distros, it's among the youngest. The more mature Mozilla developers picked their Linux distros before Ubuntu did more than a little maturing, 10-15 years ago, so these more experienced developers are mostly RedHat-Fedora (heavily Gnome/GTK), SuSE-openSUSE (more evenly KDE as Gnome), Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia (more strongly KDE than Gnome), Debian, Slackware and maybe a few other more mature distro users. Most devs don't switch distros willy nilly. Those Mozilla devs using *buntu are mostly younger and less experienced, and more likely volunteers than subsidized or salaried to work on Mozilla. I use the binaries built by Mozilla.org more than those built and personalized by the various distros. I get better control over which versions are installed, and since I need more than just latest version, I have a more consistent experience by sticking to binaries build by only one source, regardless what I have booted. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Let good developers like Mozilla to maintenance their packages
Am Freitag, den 20.09.2013, 14:06 -0400 schrieb Felix Miata: On 2013-09-21 00:40 (GMT+0800) PillowSky composed: Post on ubuntuforum Link:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2175314 In the E-mail is just a summary. I find none of the maintainers are the software developers themselves. Here's one reason why: Ubuntu was born less than 9 years ago. Of the most popular current distros, it's among the youngest. The more mature Mozilla developers picked their Linux distros before Ubuntu did more than a little maturing, 10-15 years ago, so these more experienced developers are mostly RedHat-Fedora (heavily Gnome/GTK), SuSE-openSUSE (more evenly KDE as Gnome), Mandrake-Mandriva-Mageia (more strongly KDE than Gnome), Debian, Slackware and maybe a few other more mature distro users. Most devs don't switch distros willy nilly. Those Mozilla devs using *buntu are mostly younger and less experienced, and more likely volunteers than subsidized or salaried to work on Mozilla. You told us a lot assumptions. Do you have any statistics that support your theory? -- Benjamin Drung Debian Ubuntu Developer -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
