Re: Another end-user view of showstoppers etc
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Alex Cockell alcock...@eclipse.co.uk wrote: Hi folks, First of all - I am your putative end-user. I bought my Thinkpad R61i from Linux Emporium with standard 8.04 Desktop preinstalled (off Canonical's repos - not a downstream version like Mint or Dell's own), and only use software out of Canonical's official repos. I'm also going to be VERY nervous when it comes to a major version upgrade, to the point where I might end up buying a new laptop if replacing the OS didn't go swimmingly. In fact, during a phone conversation with LE, they generally recommend clean reinstalls for major OS upgrades. It's therefore obvious that I'm an LTS-LTS user, and would be too scared to step away from that - although some laptops in LE's range have had to have the most recent regular release put on them as earlier versions wouldn't start or notice all the hardware. Ubuntu is becoming more known by the mainstream - we end-users just want machines that *work*. Might some slight changes into how certain enhancements are introduced be an idea? For example - is new hardware support regularly SRU'd back into the current LTS release, after decent QA? Or is it the case that if there was hardware that was newer than the release level (eg if I bought a new lappie and managed to get a restricted level of functionality with Hardy..) I would have to wait a year for a new component to start working? But it's scary to see showstoppers (or what we users would see as showstoppers) going into a Gold release, rather than spinning a revised RC. The last thing Canonical needs is for Karmic to be its KDE 4.0, considering all the bad press that caused. Maybe the idea of the 6-month releases being advertised as major development milestones is one to consider. All I am saying is please don't let Lucid break my machine when I come to upgrade to it around July next year... Just thoughts from one of your user community. Alex Cockell -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK alcock...@eclipse.co.uk -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss I suggested at least a year ago that modifications be made to the development and maintenance schedule for releases, such as 6 month lifetimes for non-LTS releases, and using LTS-1 releases as the base for LTS instead of syncing with Debian-Unstable. I do truly hope that the next 'new-feature-packed' Ubuntu release is Manic Manatee, as Lucid should be a stabilization period. That said, LTS's do have two beta releases and fewer alphas, which mean longer freeze times and bug fixes instead of frantically uploading the latest daily tar.gz of any given piece of software. In theory. Your point about SRU'ing hardware support to LTS is well taken by me, but I don't understand. Are you implying something is wrong with Karmic, or are you simply stating your dissatisfaction with hardware support in Hardy? -- Luke L. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Another end-user view of showstoppers etc
As it is kinda issue I have always raised, I think biggest problem is inconsistent hardware support. Not poor, but inconsistent. Hardware section is where most regressions shows their ugly heads. But this require bigger, more coordinated effort between distros and kernel developers. It is also bad that if you check hardware which worked before, and it doesn't work for example in Karmic, you have really small changes that it will work. Unfortunately kernel is slow and hardware check at least for selected general devices should be done on regular basis. Cheers, Peter. 2009/10/29 Alex Cockell alcock...@eclipse.co.uk: Hi folks, First of all - I am your putative end-user. I bought my Thinkpad R61i from Linux Emporium with standard 8.04 Desktop preinstalled (off Canonical's repos - not a downstream version like Mint or Dell's own), and only use software out of Canonical's official repos. I'm also going to be VERY nervous when it comes to a major version upgrade, to the point where I might end up buying a new laptop if replacing the OS didn't go swimmingly. In fact, during a phone conversation with LE, they generally recommend clean reinstalls for major OS upgrades. It's therefore obvious that I'm an LTS-LTS user, and would be too scared to step away from that - although some laptops in LE's range have had to have the most recent regular release put on them as earlier versions wouldn't start or notice all the hardware. Ubuntu is becoming more known by the mainstream - we end-users just want machines that *work*. Might some slight changes into how certain enhancements are introduced be an idea? For example - is new hardware support regularly SRU'd back into the current LTS release, after decent QA? Or is it the case that if there was hardware that was newer than the release level (eg if I bought a new lappie and managed to get a restricted level of functionality with Hardy..) I would have to wait a year for a new component to start working? But it's scary to see showstoppers (or what we users would see as showstoppers) going into a Gold release, rather than spinning a revised RC. The last thing Canonical needs is for Karmic to be its KDE 4.0, considering all the bad press that caused. Maybe the idea of the 6-month releases being advertised as major development milestones is one to consider. All I am saying is please don't let Lucid break my machine when I come to upgrade to it around July next year... Just thoughts from one of your user community. Alex Cockell -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK alcock...@eclipse.co.uk -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Another end-user view of showstoppers etc
Hi Luke, and list... On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 03:04 -0500, Luke L wrote: I suggested at least a year ago that modifications be made to the development and maintenance schedule for releases, such as 6 month lifetimes for non-LTS releases, and using LTS-1 releases as the base for LTS instead of syncing with Debian-Unstable. I do truly hope that the next 'new-feature-packed' Ubuntu release is Manic Manatee, as Lucid should be a stabilization period. Sounds wise to me. That said, LTS's do have two beta releases and fewer alphas, which mean longer freeze times and bug fixes instead of frantically uploading the latest daily tar.gz of any given piece of software. In theory. Your point about SRU'ing hardware support to LTS is well taken by me, but I don't understand. Are you implying something is wrong with Karmic, or are you simply stating your dissatisfaction with hardware support in Hardy? Not my issue personally, but one thing my vendor mentioned. One of the guys at LE mentioned that laptop hardware changes so quickly that sometimes older versions can't be booted on them... while buying turnkey kit allows for the more recent versions to be rolled out - it can mean that people who don't buy when an LTS is rolled can be left with shorter periods before the support finishes. Also - thinking of one of the other responses... I'm an end-user, so would be rather worried about switching on Backports. What I meant by full support is similar to what was done with the Intel display driver around 8.04.2, where the newer driver was released to everyone after EXTREMELY thorough testing. As an end-user, I have -security and -updates enabled, and would not want ot go anywhere near -proposed or -backports - I'm not a tester. I rely on Release Management to do that for me... Just MHO... As long as the next LTS is nice and bulletproof and doesn't have nasty regressions... Thanks for all you're doing.. -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK alcock...@eclipse.co.uk -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
