Re: Dead acute + c still produces ć instead of the more widely used ç
On 2019-08-05 21:01, Colin Watson wrote: (That said, while I don't use dead-key layouts myself, I seem to get ç when I type Compose ' c even though that isn't what the Compose file says I should get. Not quite sure what's going on there.) Probably Gtk is what's going on. I think that libx11 only gets involved if you have replaced IBus with XIM as your input method framework. But Gtk has taken over some of the libx11 rules. Please note, though, that what the OP asks for does not involve a compose key. He is simply talking about pressing followed by c. -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Dead acute + c still produces ć instead of the more widely used ç
Hi Nilson, On 2019-08-05 11:07, Nilson Santos Figueiredo Jr. wrote: I just got a new laptop and installed the newest LTS Ubuntu version. To my surprise, Ubuntu still cannot produce ç properly out-of-the-box in the regular way when using the "US international with dead keys" layout. I wonder why this behavior keeps continuing to be the default. We're in 2019 and I really didn't expect this to keep happening. As others have mentioned in this thread, the default behavior is locale dependent. There is an old bug with a lengthy discussion on the topic: https://launchpad.net/bugs/518056 It appears that it's primarily Portuguese (especially Brazilian) users who want '+c result in ç but at the same time want e.g. '+e result in é. That combo can't be achieved via XKB only, which may be one reason why the Windows and macOS behavior can't be easily mirrored. Anyway, one persistent result of the bug I mentioned is this file: /etc/profile.d/cedilla-portuguese.sh With that the typical default behavior for Portuguese users is actually the behavior you would like to see. OTOH, if you don't let the system know in any way that you want '+c result in ç, the dead acute symbol will result in an acute, and not cedilla, added to the following character. -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Dead acute + c still produces ć instead of the more widely used ç
Hi. I'm a native Portuguese speaker and this bothered me a bit when I moved over from Windows to Linux (at the start of the Gnome 2 era, IIRC, which is the first time the ć thing appeared. The solution I've been using since then is the right-alt key combined with ",". Still a bit confusing when using a Mac, but it works. There are good reasons for both behaviors - dead acute is acute and when composed with c it makes sense to result in a "ć". OTOH, an exception could be warranted considering how many people need to write "ç" using a US keyboard. There may be some enlightenment in discussions from the time (early 2000's, perhaps?) Gnome (or some other component it relies on) adopted it over the Windows/8859-1 way (Macs adopted the Windows conventions much later). On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 20:02 Colin Watson wrote: > On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 11:07:08AM +0200, Nilson Santos Figueiredo Jr. > wrote: > > I just got a new laptop and installed the newest LTS Ubuntu version. > > To my surprise, Ubuntu still cannot produce ç properly out-of-the-box in > > the regular way when using the "US international with dead keys" layout. > > I believe that this behaviour is defined by libx11 > (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11) and it isn't as simple > as saying that it always produces ć: it's supposed to depend on your > locale. A grep should make the intent clear: > > $ git grep > '^ ' nls > nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ć" > U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE > nls/fi_FI.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : > "ć" U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE > nls/iso8859-1/Compose.pre: : > "\347"ccedilla > nls/iso8859-13/Compose.pre: : > "\343"cacute > nls/iso8859-15/Compose.pre: : > "\347"ccedilla > nls/iso8859-2/Compose.pre: : > "\346"cacute > nls/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ç" > ccedilla # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA > nls/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ç" ccedilla # LATIN > SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA > > I hope this will help you narrow down where the problem is: either the > compose definitions aren't taking effect, in which case you'd need to > track down what's supposed to be applying them and isn't, or the compose > definitions are wrong, in which case you would be best off taking this > up with X11 upstream. > > (That said, while I don't use dead-key layouts myself, I seem to get ç > when I type Compose ' c even though that isn't what the Compose file > says I should get. Not quite sure what's going on there.) > > > "Ć" is a character that is used in Polish (38.5 million speakers) and > > apparently also Croatian (6 millions speakers) and some related languages > > when using loanwords. > > "Ç" on the other hand, is used by Portuguese (215-260 million speakers), > > French (80 million native, 270 million total speakers), Turkish (75 > > million), Catalan (4-10million), Albanian (5 million), Azerbaijani (23 > > million), plus at least Tatar, Turkmen, Kurdish and Zazaki, Friulian, > > Ligurian and Occitan. > > Given that this is (as far as I can tell) supposed to depend on the > locale, there should be no need to play off different groups of people > against each other like this. > > -- > Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Dead acute + c still produces ć instead of the more widely used ç
On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 11:07:08AM +0200, Nilson Santos Figueiredo Jr. wrote: > I just got a new laptop and installed the newest LTS Ubuntu version. > To my surprise, Ubuntu still cannot produce ç properly out-of-the-box in > the regular way when using the "US international with dead keys" layout. I believe that this behaviour is defined by libx11 (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11) and it isn't as simple as saying that it always produces ć: it's supposed to depend on your locale. A grep should make the intent clear: $ git grep '^ ' nls nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ć" U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE nls/fi_FI.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ć" U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE nls/iso8859-1/Compose.pre: : "\347" ccedilla nls/iso8859-13/Compose.pre: : "\343" cacute nls/iso8859-15/Compose.pre: : "\347" ccedilla nls/iso8859-2/Compose.pre: : "\346" cacute nls/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ç" ccedilla # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA nls/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose.pre: : "ç" ccedilla # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA I hope this will help you narrow down where the problem is: either the compose definitions aren't taking effect, in which case you'd need to track down what's supposed to be applying them and isn't, or the compose definitions are wrong, in which case you would be best off taking this up with X11 upstream. (That said, while I don't use dead-key layouts myself, I seem to get ç when I type Compose ' c even though that isn't what the Compose file says I should get. Not quite sure what's going on there.) > "Ć" is a character that is used in Polish (38.5 million speakers) and > apparently also Croatian (6 millions speakers) and some related languages > when using loanwords. > "Ç" on the other hand, is used by Portuguese (215-260 million speakers), > French (80 million native, 270 million total speakers), Turkish (75 > million), Catalan (4-10million), Albanian (5 million), Azerbaijani (23 > million), plus at least Tatar, Turkmen, Kurdish and Zazaki, Friulian, > Ligurian and Occitan. Given that this is (as far as I can tell) supposed to depend on the locale, there should be no need to play off different groups of people against each other like this. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
