Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
Colin Watson wrote: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 02:24:33PM -0300, Derek Broughton wrote: Markus Hitter wrote: Am 09.06.2009 um 00:45 schrieb André Pirard: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. This frees the user from swap considerations and opens Linux to dynamic swap size. + 1 Not unless you have fixed the ability to hibernate to a swap file... It's part of the spec. Excellent! -- derek -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 02:24:33PM -0300, Derek Broughton wrote: Markus Hitter wrote: Am 09.06.2009 um 00:45 schrieb André Pirard: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. This frees the user from swap considerations and opens Linux to dynamic swap size. + 1 Not unless you have fixed the ability to hibernate to a swap file... It's part of the spec. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 09:20 +0200, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 10.06.2009 um 21:44 schrieb Lars Wirzenius: ke, 2009-06-10 kello 15:21 -0400, John Moser kirjoitti: Every argument for putting Grub or the kernel on a separate partition has been based around the idea that these files are somehow more important than, say, /bin/sh Putting the kernel (i.e., /boot) on a separate partition is often mandated by the BIOS not being able to read all of a large hard disk. I have a motherboard from 2008 that has that problem, so it's not ancient history, either. Additionally, if you have more than one installation of Ubuntu on the same platter, you really want to share /boot with both installations. Not doing so means two /boot's, while you can address only one of those in the master boot record. As /boot also contains kernels, you end up booting grub from one partition and the kernel from the other partition. Kernel install scripts can't deal with such a situation, you end up sync'ing those two /boots manually after each update of one of the kernels. Kind of. I don't have separate /boot partitions for my Karmic, Jaunty, Squeeze installs - grub2 + os-prober makes this work pretty well, but it does require running update-grub2 in the Karmic install to update the master grub.cfg. It's a bit of a trade-off, really. Not sharing /boot means a manual step for non-Karmic kernel ABI updates, sharing /boot in my experience results in contention for menu.lst. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
Felipe Figueiredo wrote: John, On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, John Moserjohn.r.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Luke Llukehasnon...@gmail.com wrote: How many of these things are actually going to make it into Karmic? A dynamically sized swap file? GRUB 2 residing on its own partition, etc? These things sound good. GRUB2 on its own partition is silly. Like having a separate /boot. What problem are you trying to solve? To name one problem, people who use LVM can't use GRUB because it doesn't support LVM block devices. Only partly true. I've used LVM for years but kept / off the LVM. One reason for a separate boot partition was to enable the root filesystem also to be on LVM. Also, would a dedicated GRUB2 parition be able to exist on LVM/raid? Just curious. Who cares? LVM is good enough to benefit even home users. I know there's at least one spec considering LVM by default, so people must care about it. Sure people care about LVM - but whether you can put a Grub2 partition on it seems immaterial. -- derek -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
Surely the BIOS doesn't actually have to be involved as long as the initial boot stage can find files anywhere on the disk. Guess what loads the inital boot stage? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On 2009/06/12 11:13 (GMT+0800) Christopher Chan composed: Well, as there is no generic MBR, what MBR do you use? The Windows' one? Mac OS X's, *BSD's? I don't know what 'generic MBR' is either. I was referring to generic MBR _code_, an optional feature of an openSUSE installation, and I'm sure other Linux installers. It refers to MBR code that works identically or similarly to the MBR code included with IBM DOS, MS DOS, OS/2 and Windows versions from two decades ago, which when installed finds an active primary partition on the first BIOS HD, if one exists, and transfers control to its PBR if it does, and prints an error message if a grand total of exactly one active primary does not exist. That so-called 'MBR code included with IBM PCDOS, MSDOS, OS/2 and Windows' is not in fact any code at all but a MBR that only holds partition data and has no code installed. The actual finding an active primary partition and then loading the boot sector of that partition is done by the BIOS. Except for a genuine IBM BIOS on an antique IBM PC, which can boot ROM BASIC, the only post-POST job of the BIOS is to find a bootable device to transfer control to. Without bootstrap code installed to a bootable device (or access to PXE), a system cannot be booted. There is no such thing as 'generic' MBR code. The MBR aka master boot record is the first sector of a disk where partition data is written. That partition data does not use up all 512 bytes and in fact you have about 440 bytes for your OWN code. Assuming a single HD system without a bootable floppy, CD, DVD or USB device or PXE available, boot is impossible if the only content in the MBR is the partition table. Generic code, which DOS (via FDISK /MBR), Windows (via its installer or FDISK /MBR) and OS/2 (via FDISK or LVM /NEWMBR, or its installer) install into that first 440 bytes, is the code that locates an active partition to transfer control to, and makes the transfer. OS boot begins when that transfer takes place, from the PBR on the selected OS's root partition. Alternative (non-generic) MBR code can be substituted for generic if that substitute code is capable of finding and loading code that can continue the process of locating a bootable partition and loading its PBR code. An example of such code is Grub 1 stage1. You can stuff grub2 into the boot sector or into the MBR. Since the BIOS With an MBR empty of code, and no alternative boot media available, no boot sector will ever get loaded, and thus no OS boot will begin. first looks at the MBR for something to load before checking the The something the BIOS looks for is a bootable device to transfer control to. The MBR code, or absence thereof, is used by the BIOS for little more than a determination of whether the BIOS should display a boot failure message (and halt the system), or making a determination of that device to be the boot device. partition table, whatever is installed in the MBR gets first priority. Just take note of that. Not that wikipedia is an authority but you can look here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record I suggest _you_ read it (particularly the second li in the first ul), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB (particularly the first paragraph following the heading Boot process). -- Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle.Proverbs 23:5 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 17:27 -0400, Matt Price wrote: On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 15:21 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Monday 08 June 2009 6:45:20 pm André Pirard wrote: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. I think this was talked about at UDS as something people wanted to do. were there discussions about how to manage hibernation? tuxonice and i think uswsusp can write to a swapfile, but i'm not sure that swsusp can do that right now. It can. Scott -- Scott James Remnant sc...@canonical.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
How many of these things are actually going to make it into Karmic? A dynamically sized swap file? GRUB 2 residing on its own partition, etc? These things sound good. Also, would a dedicated GRUB2 parition be able to exist on LVM/raid? Just curious. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Scott James Remnantsc...@canonical.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 17:27 -0400, Matt Price wrote: On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 15:21 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Monday 08 June 2009 6:45:20 pm André Pirard wrote: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. I think this was talked about at UDS as something people wanted to do. were there discussions about how to manage hibernation? tuxonice and i think uswsusp can write to a swapfile, but i'm not sure that swsusp can do that right now. It can. Scott -- Scott James Remnant sc...@canonical.com -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Luke L. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com writes: GRUB2 on its own partition is silly. Like having a separate /boot. It is required for stuff like root on LVM, a configuration supported by the alternate installer. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
Felipe Figueiredo wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Felipe Figueiredophils...@gmail.com wrote: To name one problem, people who use LVM can't use GRUB because it doesn't support LVM block devices. Of course this is wrong, silly me. What I meant is that you have to bypass LVM for GRUB, by means of a non-LVM /boot partition. Okay, that makes sense. On a normal partitioning setup, of course, this is a non-issue. I hope it's clearer now. regards FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 23:35 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com writes: GRUB2 on its own partition is silly. Like having a separate /boot. It is required for stuff like root on LVM, a configuration supported by the alternate installer. This is news to my laptop, which is happily booting from /-on-LVM with grub2. That's one of the advantages of grub2. As far as I'm aware, the alternate installer doesn't yet understand that grub2 can happily handle /boot residing on an LVM volume and installs LILO instead, but grub2 is quite happy to boot from LVM. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:45 PM, André Pirarda.pir...@ulg.ac.be wrote: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. This frees the user from swap considerations and opens Linux to dynamic swap size. There was a blueprint to discuss at UDS: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-swapfile At this time it has no updates. -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On 06/08/2009 05:45 PM, André Pirard wrote: On 2009-06-08 23:32, Colin Watson wrote : As of tomorrow's daily builds (assuming they build successfully, anyway), GRUB 2 will be the default boot loader for new installations, pursuant to the grub2-as-default discussion at UDS. GRUB should be in its own partition, tentatively containing repair tools too. This makes Ubuntu or any Linux undestroyable by Windows or anyone. Restoring GRU/Ubuntu would be a most standard setting of a boot flag. Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. See http://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-swapfile This frees the user from swap considerations and opens Linux to dynamic swap size. I once made twin disks and I fell in a trap. I thought Linux would use the only swap partition on the disk. But the swap partition was referenced by UUID. Using both features would make the partition count a statu quo. I, as a Linux sower, find both topics important when I make an installation.* * -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Monday 08 June 2009 6:45:20 pm André Pirard wrote: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. I think this was talked about at UDS as something people wanted to do. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: GRUB 2 now default for new installations
On Tue, 2009-06-09 at 15:21 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Monday 08 June 2009 6:45:20 pm André Pirard wrote: Similarly, the swap partition should be a Linux file. I think this was talked about at UDS as something people wanted to do. were there discussions about how to manage hibernation? tuxonice and i think uswsusp can write to a swapfile, but i'm not sure that swsusp can do that right now. m -- Matt Price matt.pr...@utoronto.ca -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
