Re: Post-natty changes to unity [Was: Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4]

2012-01-09 Thread Kai Mast 

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On 09.01.2012 01:56, James Haigh wrote:
>
> * Super-a, Super-f (possibly others) no longer work. I use these
> frequently to go straight to the relevant part of Dash. One of the
> main features I preferred in Unity over Gnome 2 was the ability to
> start applications very quickly: Super-a, first 2 or 3 letters of
> application, Enter.
>
Really? Works fine for me. Even in precise.
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Re: Post-natty changes to unity [Was: Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4]

2012-01-08 Thread James Haigh 
On 06/01/2012, Evan Huus  wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, James Haigh 
> wrote:
>> I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
>> Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.
>
> I find that very interesting. My personal opinion (and the general
> majority opinion, as far as I can tell) is that the Oneiric changes to
> unity were clear improvements.

Yes, Unity is more stable and has lots of usability improvements in
general but if things I use many times a day are removed then it
doesn't weigh up to upgrade yet.

People get very used to features in an interface. Unity was an
interface redesign, and takes a bit of getting used to. It was worth
it though, there are loads of advantages. However, I wasn't expecting
such obvious/major changes so soon after it was made default in Natty
- without even /options/ for features in the previous release.

>
> I'd be very grateful if you could provide some specific examples of
> behaviors that you preferred in Natty that were changed or removed in
> Oneiric.

>From memory, roughly descending in importance:

* Ubuntu logo - I thought it was very elegant when I first saw it. The
intersection of the Panel and Launcher contains the Ubuntu logo. It's
visible when the launcher is hidden, yet it's subtle. It was
perfection.

* Launcher reveal - touching the top-left corner pixel should
instantly reveal the launcher. Pushing the left edge feels slow, but
if there's no delay it's too easy to accidentally reveal the launcher
when clicking something near the left edge, which is annoying. I have
the left edge disabled and just use the corner. It seems this option
has been removed. I flick my pointer to the corner at least 100 times
a day, almost by reflex. On Oneiric, it feels like being used to
wearing a watch, then still looking at your wrist if you forgot to put
it on (and of course not obtaining the time from this action).

* Super-a, Super-f (possibly others) no longer work. I use these
frequently to go straight to the relevant part of Dash. One of the
main features I preferred in Unity over Gnome 2 was the ability to
start applications very quickly: Super-a, first 2 or 3 letters of
application, Enter.

* Corner expand arrow on Dash has been replaced with window buttons
(close, minimise, maximise). Dash is more like a menu than a window.
It's inconsistent to put window buttons on something that doesn't have
minimise, maximise, move, resize, etc. that windows do. Also, the
corner expand arrow was intuitive, so I don't see how that change is
'simpler'.

* Power cog icon, top-right - minor detail but it's always on my
screen unless something is fullscreen. Looks strange.

There might have been a couple of things I forgot, but they weren't
deal-breakers like the first ones.


Natty wasn't perfect for stability or usability. I filed a lot of bugs
in Unity in Natty. But the frequency of occurrence is far less than
how often I flick my pointer to the corner or press Super-a. Also, I
found workarounds for most of the bugs that affected me (usually when
reproducing the bug for the bug report).

I would have mentioned it earlier, before Oneiric was released, but I
had other priorities at the time. Sorry for this.

Thank you.
James Haigh.

Ps. It bounced from the list the first time due to the attached
pictures exceeding 40k. Here they are:
http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=3089
http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=3090

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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-08 Thread Kai Mast 

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On 06.01.2012 02:41, Gianfranco Costamagna wrote:
> Sorry for the stupid question:
>
> Are you really plan to release ubuntu 12.04 without gnome 3.4 in the
official repository?
>
> I mean, I can understand you prefere unity as default, but IMAO ubuntu
should provide the latest gnome, like it provides the latest kernel
released in the developing process.
>
> Please don't leave users to search for a ppa/build it themselves, since
this is a bit usability problem, and a regression for bug 1 [1]
>
> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> Just my 0.02 $
>
> Gianfranco
>
>
I think its good that some versions are kept back. The new clutter-based
totem in 3.2 for example is flickering a lot on my machine (tested it on
the gnome3 ppa).

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Re: Post-natty changes to unity [Was: Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4]

2012-01-06 Thread Dane Mutters 
Though I think Unity still needs a -lot- of work, I find it much more
usable in Oneiric than it was in Natty.  I used it for several months
before switching to Gnome 3 in Oneiric, whereas I couldn't stand it for a
day in Natty.  (Keep up the good work.)  I can't speak to whether there
have been regressions, but I can speak to a marked improvement in overall
usability.

--Dane

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Bruno Girin  wrote:

> On 06/01/12 15:58, Evan Huus wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, James Haigh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
>>> Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.
>>>
>> I find that very interesting. My personal opinion (and the general
>> majority opinion, as far as I can tell) is that the Oneiric changes to
>> unity were clear improvements.
>>
>
> I second that: I installed Oneiric beta on my new laptop rather than Natty
> because Unity in Natty was flaky with my hardware.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
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Re: Post-natty changes to unity [Was: Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4]

2012-01-06 Thread Bruno Girin 

On 06/01/12 15:58, Evan Huus wrote:

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, James Haigh  wrote:

I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.

I find that very interesting. My personal opinion (and the general
majority opinion, as far as I can tell) is that the Oneiric changes to
unity were clear improvements.


I second that: I installed Oneiric beta on my new laptop rather than 
Natty because Unity in Natty was flaky with my hardware.


Bruno


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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-06 Thread Jeremy Bicha 
On 6 January 2012 10:41, James Haigh  wrote:
> I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
> Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.
>
> It has become a lot less usable, and a bit less elegant (Eg: Ubuntu
> start button thing). Some of the things that drew me to Natty have
> gone.
>
> It's not the first time that upgrading Ubuntu has lost features, but
> usually it's worth it due to other improvements. These things aren't
> accidental regressions, they are intentional. I think there should be
> some way of communicating to developers positive feedback about
> features (not just bugs or feature requests). Otherwise you only hear
> when it goes wrong. Something like "I use this feature and it's good!
> Please don't remove it!", or at the very least, there should be an
> /option/ to enable the feature even if it's no longer default.
>
> I'm planning on switching to Gnome 3, but why isn't there a flavour of
> Ubuntu for Gnome? I want to give out CDs again, but I'm not giving out
> any post-Natty version of Unity.

The community is welcome to produce a Ubuntu CD that uses GNOME Shell
as the default desktop. Basically, it just needs technical people to
step up and do the work required. Here's a recent email asking for
help with supporting GNOME on Ubuntu:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-December/003527.html

Although on the other hand, installing gnome-shell is very easy in Ubuntu 11.10.

And you could always pass out Kubuntu, Xubuntu, or Lubuntu disks. ;-)
But I agree with Charlie: Unity in 11.10 is far better than Unity on
11.04.

Jeremy Bicha

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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-06 Thread Charlie Kravetz 
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On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 15:41:21 +
James Haigh  wrote:

> I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
> Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.
> 
> It has become a lot less usable, and a bit less elegant (Eg: Ubuntu
> start button thing). Some of the things that drew me to Natty have
> gone.
> 
> It's not the first time that upgrading Ubuntu has lost features, but
> usually it's worth it due to other improvements. These things aren't
> accidental regressions, they are intentional. I think there should be
> some way of communicating to developers positive feedback about
> features (not just bugs or feature requests). Otherwise you only hear
> when it goes wrong. Something like "I use this feature and it's good!
> Please don't remove it!", or at the very least, there should be an
> /option/ to enable the feature even if it's no longer default.
> 
> I'm planning on switching to Gnome 3, but why isn't there a flavour of
> Ubuntu for Gnome? I want to give out CDs again, but I'm not giving out
> any post-Natty version of Unity.
> 
> James Haigh.

Unity in 11.10 is way more stable than in 11.04. Also, why Gnome 3 if
Unity is the main desktop environment for Ubuntu now? Shouldn't it be
the showcase to present, if you are giving out Ubuntu CD's? 

- -- 
Charlie Kravetz 
Linux Registered User Number 425914  [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]
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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-06 Thread Jeremy Bicha 
On 5 January 2012 20:41, Gianfranco Costamagna
 wrote:
> Are you really plan to release ubuntu 12.04 without gnome 3.4 in the
> official repository?
>
> I mean, I can understand you prefere unity as default, but IMAO ubuntu
> should provide the latest gnome, like it provides the latest kernel released
> in the developing process.

Actually, Ubuntu 12.04 will include the 3.2 kernel but the latest
stable kernel will be 3.3.

> Please don't leave users to search for a ppa/build it themselves, since this
> is a bit usability problem, and a regression for bug 1 [1]

This has nothing whatsoever to do with bug 1, except for the fact that
most people prefer their computers to just work and not necessarily be
running the latest software versions. This is especially the case for
a Long Term Support release.

The parts of GNOME 3.4 that don't make it into Ubuntu 12.04 will not
be hidden, but will be available in the GNOME 3 PPA, which is actually
the same place you'd find GNOME 3.0 for 11.04 and 3.2 for 11.10.

https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/?field.series_filter=precise

With the exception of the GNOME 3.0 release cycle (which was unusual),
this will be the first time that Ubuntu is not targeting all of the
latest GNOME. Our intention is to balance the goals of shipping tested
software and shipping the latest software in order to provide a
stable, less buggy Ubuntu 12.04.

Jeremy Bicha

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Post-natty changes to unity [Was: Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4]

2012-01-06 Thread Evan Huus 
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, James Haigh  wrote:
> I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
> Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.

I find that very interesting. My personal opinion (and the general
majority opinion, as far as I can tell) is that the Oneiric changes to
unity were clear improvements.

I'd be very grateful if you could provide some specific examples of
behaviors that you preferred in Natty that were changed or removed in
Oneiric.

Thanks,
Evan

> It has become a lot less usable, and a bit less elegant (Eg: Ubuntu
> start button thing). Some of the things that drew me to Natty have
> gone.
>
> It's not the first time that upgrading Ubuntu has lost features, but
> usually it's worth it due to other improvements. These things aren't
> accidental regressions, they are intentional. I think there should be
> some way of communicating to developers positive feedback about
> features (not just bugs or feature requests). Otherwise you only hear
> when it goes wrong. Something like "I use this feature and it's good!
> Please don't remove it!", or at the very least, there should be an
> /option/ to enable the feature even if it's no longer default.
>
> I'm planning on switching to Gnome 3, but why isn't there a flavour of
> Ubuntu for Gnome? I want to give out CDs again, but I'm not giving out
> any post-Natty version of Unity.
>
> James Haigh.
>
>
> On 06/01/2012, Bilal Akhtar  wrote:
>> Hi Gianfranco,
>>
>> These links should help you with that :
>>
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-version
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/precisely-what-gnome-version-will-be-in-ubuntu-12-04/
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Bilal Akhtar.
>> On Jan 5, 2012 8:42 PM, "Gianfranco Costamagna" <
>> costamagnagianfra...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for the stupid question:
>>>
>>> Are you really plan to release ubuntu 12.04 without gnome 3.4 in the
>>> official repository?
>>>
>>> I mean, I can understand you prefere unity as default, but IMAO ubuntu
>>> should provide the latest gnome, like it provides the latest kernel
>>> released in the developing process.
>>>
>>> Please don't leave users to search for a ppa/build it themselves, since
>>> this is a bit usability problem, and a regression for bug 1 [1]
>>>
>>> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>>>
>>> Just my 0.02 $
>>>
>>> Gianfranco
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
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>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-06 Thread James Haigh 
I was a keen Unity fan when Natty came out. However, since Oneiric,
Unity is the main reason why I'm still using Natty.

It has become a lot less usable, and a bit less elegant (Eg: Ubuntu
start button thing). Some of the things that drew me to Natty have
gone.

It's not the first time that upgrading Ubuntu has lost features, but
usually it's worth it due to other improvements. These things aren't
accidental regressions, they are intentional. I think there should be
some way of communicating to developers positive feedback about
features (not just bugs or feature requests). Otherwise you only hear
when it goes wrong. Something like "I use this feature and it's good!
Please don't remove it!", or at the very least, there should be an
/option/ to enable the feature even if it's no longer default.

I'm planning on switching to Gnome 3, but why isn't there a flavour of
Ubuntu for Gnome? I want to give out CDs again, but I'm not giving out
any post-Natty version of Unity.

James Haigh.


On 06/01/2012, Bilal Akhtar  wrote:
> Hi Gianfranco,
>
> These links should help you with that :
>
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-version
>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/precisely-what-gnome-version-will-be-in-ubuntu-12-04/
>
> Hope this helps,
> Bilal Akhtar.
> On Jan 5, 2012 8:42 PM, "Gianfranco Costamagna" <
> costamagnagianfra...@yahoo.it> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the stupid question:
>>
>> Are you really plan to release ubuntu 12.04 without gnome 3.4 in the
>> official repository?
>>
>> I mean, I can understand you prefere unity as default, but IMAO ubuntu
>> should provide the latest gnome, like it provides the latest kernel
>> released in the developing process.
>>
>> Please don't leave users to search for a ppa/build it themselves, since
>> this is a bit usability problem, and a regression for bug 1 [1]
>>
>> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>>
>> Just my 0.02 $
>>
>> Gianfranco
>>
>> --
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>>
>

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Re: Ubuntu & Gnome 3.4

2012-01-05 Thread Bilal Akhtar 
Hi Gianfranco,

These links should help you with that :

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-version

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/precisely-what-gnome-version-will-be-in-ubuntu-12-04/

Hope this helps,
Bilal Akhtar.
On Jan 5, 2012 8:42 PM, "Gianfranco Costamagna" <
costamagnagianfra...@yahoo.it> wrote:

> Sorry for the stupid question:
>
> Are you really plan to release ubuntu 12.04 without gnome 3.4 in the
> official repository?
>
> I mean, I can understand you prefere unity as default, but IMAO ubuntu
> should provide the latest gnome, like it provides the latest kernel
> released in the developing process.
>
> Please don't leave users to search for a ppa/build it themselves, since
> this is a bit usability problem, and a regression for bug 1 [1]
>
> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
>
> Just my 0.02 $
>
> Gianfranco
>
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