Re: chromium no longer maintained

[John Moser]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 8:43 AM, David Klasinc  wrote:
> who's forking and
> who's not. :)


Cheeky.

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Daniel Hollocher]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Damian Ivanov  wrote:
> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/new-chromium-stable-and-development.html
>

Cool.  So that will allow users who would like to use chromium-browser.

It still looks like no one should be using chromium 18 since there
have been a handful of security fixes since that release.  Maybe I
should file a bug?  FWIW:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1045993

For quantal, it looks like version 20 came from debian.  I suspect
that by the time quantal is released, 20 will be just as bad security
wise as 18 is now.


Dan

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Damian Ivanov]

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/new-chromium-stable-and-development.html

2012/9/4 Colin Law :
> On 4 September 2012 13:26, Damian Ivanov  wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Bad said, Ubuntu is a fork of Debian, it gets forked once in a while
>> after a release to update packages, see wikipedia.
>>
>> Anyway I think chromium is still the most recent, from when 12.04 was
>> released, so may somebody will just need to pick it up for 12.10 I
>> guess
>
> 12.10 currently has chromium-browser 20.0.1132.47 Ubuntu 12.10 (144678)
>
> Colin
>
>>
>> 2012/9/4 David Klasinc :
>>> On 09/04/2012 02:10 PM, Nicolas Michel wrote:

 In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And
 one is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends
 to differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is
 based on the other, plus some more features.
>>>
>>>
>>> Apart from the licenses, Chrome is to Chromium what Ubuntu is to Debian.
>>>
>>> But is this discussion really necessary here on this list? Unmaintained
>>> package is chromium-browser. That's all that matters.
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Colin Law]

On 4 September 2012 13:26, Damian Ivanov  wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Bad said, Ubuntu is a fork of Debian, it gets forked once in a while
> after a release to update packages, see wikipedia.
>
> Anyway I think chromium is still the most recent, from when 12.04 was
> released, so may somebody will just need to pick it up for 12.10 I
> guess

12.10 currently has chromium-browser 20.0.1132.47 Ubuntu 12.10 (144678)

Colin

>
> 2012/9/4 David Klasinc :
>> On 09/04/2012 02:10 PM, Nicolas Michel wrote:
>>>
>>> In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And
>>> one is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends
>>> to differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is
>>> based on the other, plus some more features.
>>
>>
>> Apart from the licenses, Chrome is to Chromium what Ubuntu is to Debian.
>>
>> But is this discussion really necessary here on this list? Unmaintained
>> package is chromium-browser. That's all that matters.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> David
>>
>>
>>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[David Klasinc]

My message was a (too) subtle hint that this thread should die, because 
it is really not important what is the codebase for what and who's 
forking and who's not. :)


Regards,
David


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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Damian Ivanov]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Damian Ivanov 
Date: 2012/9/4
Subject: Re: chromium no longer maintained
To: Gareth McCumskey 


>From wikipedeia:
scroll down to history and development,
" Ubuntu is a fork<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(software_development)> of
the Debian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian> project's
codebase<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codebase>
.  "


2012/9/4 Gareth McCumskey 

> From Wikipedia:
>
> "Ubuntu ([image: play] 
> /<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English>
> ʊ 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>ˈ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>
> b 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>ʊ<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>
> n 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>t<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>
> uː 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key>/<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English>
>  
> *u-bun-too*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pronunciation_respelling_key>
> )[8] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)#cite_note-7>
> [9]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)#cite_note-about_ubuntu-8>
>  is
> a computer operating system<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system>
> * based* on the Debian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian> Linux
> distribution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution> and
> distributed."
>
> Emphasis my own
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Bad said, Ubuntu is a fork of Debian, it gets forked once in a while
>> after a release to update packages, see wikipedia.
>>
>> Anyway I think chromium is still the most recent, from when 12.04 was
>> released, so may somebody will just need to pick it up for 12.10 I
>> guess
>>
>> 2012/9/4 David Klasinc :
>> > On 09/04/2012 02:10 PM, Nicolas Michel wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And
>> >> one is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends
>> >> to differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is
>> >> based on the other, plus some more features.
>> >
>> >
>> > Apart from the licenses, Chrome is to Chromium what Ubuntu is to Debian.
>> >
>> > But is this discussion really necessary here on this list? Unmaintained
>> > package is chromium-browser. That's all that matters.
>> >
>> > :)
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Damian Ivanov]

Hi David,

Bad said, Ubuntu is a fork of Debian, it gets forked once in a while
after a release to update packages, see wikipedia.

Anyway I think chromium is still the most recent, from when 12.04 was
released, so may somebody will just need to pick it up for 12.10 I
guess

2012/9/4 David Klasinc :
> On 09/04/2012 02:10 PM, Nicolas Michel wrote:
>>
>> In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And
>> one is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends
>> to differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is
>> based on the other, plus some more features.
>
>
> Apart from the licenses, Chrome is to Chromium what Ubuntu is to Debian.
>
> But is this discussion really necessary here on this list? Unmaintained
> package is chromium-browser. That's all that matters.
>
> :)
>
> Regards,
> David
>
>
>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[David Klasinc]

On 09/04/2012 02:10 PM, Nicolas Michel wrote:

In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And
one is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends
to differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is
based on the other, plus some more features.


Apart from the licenses, Chrome is to Chromium what Ubuntu is to Debian.

But is this discussion really necessary here on this list? Unmaintained 
package is chromium-browser. That's all that matters.


:)

Regards,
David



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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Nicolas Michel]

2012/9/4 John Moser 

> On 09/04/2012 03:44 AM, Jordon Bedwell wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Nicolas Michel
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
>>> Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork -
>>> it
>>> is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code
>>> which
>>> is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code of
>>> Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).
>>>
>> While I don't completely understand what you are saying I will attempt
>> to refute it. Please do research before stating somebody is wrong: "In
>> September 2008, Google released a large portion of Chrome's source
>> code as an open source project called Chromium [2], which Chrome
>> releases are still based on." [1]
>>
>> [1] 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Google_Chrome
>> [2] http://arstechnica.com/**information-technology/2008/**
>> 09/google-unveils-chrome-**source-code-and-linux-port/
>>
>> While today Chrome may be be based off of Chromium, originally
>> Chromium was based off of Chrome. Chrome is the original, Chromium is
>> the fork.  I am correct as I stated exactly that. So I repeat again,
>> stop spreading lies and use fact and truth please.  Thanks and have a
>> great day sir.
>>
>>  No, it works like this:
>
>  - Google releases Chrome (Closed source)
>  - Google open sources Chrome... mostly:  parts are proprietary, so they
> shuffle those into the closet and release most of it, shaped up into
> working order and ready to accept their proprietary code.  This new
> open-source Chrome is called "Chromium" since "Google Chrome" is a
> particular brand (it's the name of Google's browser)
>  - Chromium also runs on Linux, so Linux distributions package Chromium
>  - Google continues to work on Chromium and on their Chrome patch set,
> releasing Chromium as source code and the Chrome browser as a compiled
> product.
>
> Chromium is just Google Chrome without some of Google's secrets.


You're describing the process like these projects were different but they
aren't. They are both part of the same projet. In fact Chromium project is
behind 3 products of Google (http://www.chromium.org/):
- Chromium (the browser)
- Google Chrome
- Chromium OS

Chromium is the codebase of future versions of these related projects. They
are testing new codes into chromium and then decides or not to keep that
code and put it into Google Chrome. And yes google chrome also have part of
proprietary codes as the decoder for the H264 codec and other things.

In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And one
is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends to
differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is based on
the other, plus some more features.

One more things : Google Chrome AND Chromium are both working  on Linux ...

>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Nicolas Michel]

2012/9/4 John Moser 

> On 09/04/2012 03:44 AM, Jordon Bedwell wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Nicolas Michel
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
>>> Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork -
>>> it
>>> is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code
>>> which
>>> is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code of
>>> Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).
>>>
>> While I don't completely understand what you are saying I will attempt
>> to refute it. Please do research before stating somebody is wrong: "In
>> September 2008, Google released a large portion of Chrome's source
>> code as an open source project called Chromium [2], which Chrome
>> releases are still based on." [1]
>>
>> [1] 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Google_Chrome
>> [2] http://arstechnica.com/**information-technology/2008/**
>> 09/google-unveils-chrome-**source-code-and-linux-port/
>>
>> While today Chrome may be be based off of Chromium, originally
>> Chromium was based off of Chrome. Chrome is the original, Chromium is
>> the fork.  I am correct as I stated exactly that. So I repeat again,
>> stop spreading lies and use fact and truth please.  Thanks and have a
>> great day sir.
>>
>>  No, it works like this:
>
>  - Google releases Chrome (Closed source)
>  - Google open sources Chrome... mostly:  parts are proprietary, so they
> shuffle those into the closet and release most of it, shaped up into
> working order and ready to accept their proprietary code.  This new
> open-source Chrome is called "Chromium" since "Google Chrome" is a
> particular brand (it's the name of Google's browser)
>  - Chromium also runs on Linux, so Linux distributions package Chromium
>  - Google continues to work on Chromium and on their Chrome patch set,
> releasing Chromium as source code and the Chrome browser as a compiled
> product.
>
> Chromium is just Google Chrome without some of Google's secrets.


You're describing the process like these projects were different but they
aren't. They are both part of the same projet. In fact Chromium project is
behind 3 products of Google (http://www.chromium.org/):
- Chromium (the browser)
- Google Chrome
- Chromium OS

Chromium is the codebase of future versions of these related projects. They
are testing new codes into chromium and then decides or not to keep that
code and put it into Google Chrome. And yes google chrome also have part of
proprietary codes as the decoder for the H264 codec and other things.

In conclusion : Google Chrome is mostly Chromium but not entirely. And one
is not the fork of the other because in a fork, the codebase tends to
differienciate along the time which is not the case here. One is based on
the other, plus some more features.



>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[John Moser]

On 09/04/2012 07:13 AM, Daniel Hollocher wrote:

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Damian Ivanov  wrote:

Hi,


It would be nice if someone could step up and maintain the
chromium-browser version of chromium, but for whatever reason, that
isn't happening.  Shouldn't the ppas at least be updated to state that
the version held is out of date?  Shouldn't version 18 be removed from
the archive?



There has long been talk of switching to Chromium by default in Ubuntu 
new installs.  For a while wasn't it the default browser in Xubuntu?


Look if it gets Google to give Canonical more money (i.e. from product 
placement, like with the Firefox package's search bar functionality 
embedding Canonical's adsense ID into Google searches) I say Chromium 
should be maintained so the portion of the userbase who uses it doesn't 
go using a downloaded/hand-compiled package and not generating any revenue.




Dan



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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Daniel Hollocher]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Damian Ivanov  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Jordan, aacually what you describe is not a fork.
>
> "In software engineering, a project fork happens when developers take
> a copy of source code from one software package and start independent
> development on it, creating a distinct piece of software. The term
> often implies not merely a development branch, but a split in the
> developer community, a form of schism.[1]"
>
> The base of Chrome is Chromium
> Chrome = Chromium + other proprietary extensions.


As far as I'm concerned, this is the most correct view.  And for the
purpose of this discussion, they are practically the same.  The issue
here is that version 18 is considered outdated and insecure.  The
version of chromium that we should have right now is 21, whether it be
in the form of chromium-browser or google-chrome.

It would be nice if someone could step up and maintain the
chromium-browser version of chromium, but for whatever reason, that
isn't happening.  Shouldn't the ppas at least be updated to state that
the version held is out of date?  Shouldn't version 18 be removed from
the archive?


Dan

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[John Moser]

On 09/04/2012 03:44 AM, Jordon Bedwell wrote:

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Nicolas Michel
 wrote:

You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork - it
is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code which
is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code of
Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).

While I don't completely understand what you are saying I will attempt
to refute it. Please do research before stating somebody is wrong: "In
September 2008, Google released a large portion of Chrome's source
code as an open source project called Chromium [2], which Chrome
releases are still based on." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome
[2] 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/09/google-unveils-chrome-source-code-and-linux-port/

While today Chrome may be be based off of Chromium, originally
Chromium was based off of Chrome. Chrome is the original, Chromium is
the fork.  I am correct as I stated exactly that. So I repeat again,
stop spreading lies and use fact and truth please.  Thanks and have a
great day sir.


No, it works like this:

 - Google releases Chrome (Closed source)
 - Google open sources Chrome... mostly:  parts are proprietary, so 
they shuffle those into the closet and release most of it, shaped up 
into working order and ready to accept their proprietary code.  This new 
open-source Chrome is called "Chromium" since "Google Chrome" is a 
particular brand (it's the name of Google's browser)

 - Chromium also runs on Linux, so Linux distributions package Chromium
 - Google continues to work on Chromium and on their Chrome patch set, 
releasing Chromium as source code and the Chrome browser as a compiled 
product.


Chromium is just Google Chrome without some of Google's secrets.

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Damian Ivanov]

Hi,

Jordan, aacually what you describe is not a fork.

"In software engineering, a project fork happens when developers take
a copy of source code from one software package and start independent
development on it, creating a distinct piece of software. The term
often implies not merely a development branch, but a split in the
developer community, a form of schism.[1]"

The base of Chrome is Chromium
Chrome = Chromium + other proprietary extensions.

Linux Mint is no fork of Ubuntu. It is based on it.

Regards,
Damian

2012/9/4 Jordon Bedwell :
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Nicolas Michel
>  wrote:
>> You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
>> Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork - it
>> is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code which
>> is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code of
>> Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).
>
> While I don't completely understand what you are saying I will attempt
> to refute it. Please do research before stating somebody is wrong: "In
> September 2008, Google released a large portion of Chrome's source
> code as an open source project called Chromium [2], which Chrome
> releases are still based on." [1]
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome
> [2] 
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/09/google-unveils-chrome-source-code-and-linux-port/
>
> While today Chrome may be be based off of Chromium, originally
> Chromium was based off of Chrome. Chrome is the original, Chromium is
> the fork.  I am correct as I stated exactly that. So I repeat again,
> stop spreading lies and use fact and truth please.  Thanks and have a
> great day sir.
>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Jordon Bedwell]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Nicolas Michel
 wrote:
> You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
> Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork - it
> is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code which
> is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code of
> Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).

While I don't completely understand what you are saying I will attempt
to refute it. Please do research before stating somebody is wrong: "In
September 2008, Google released a large portion of Chrome's source
code as an open source project called Chromium [2], which Chrome
releases are still based on." [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome
[2] 
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/09/google-unveils-chrome-source-code-and-linux-port/

While today Chrome may be be based off of Chromium, originally
Chromium was based off of Chrome. Chrome is the original, Chromium is
the fork.  I am correct as I stated exactly that. So I repeat again,
stop spreading lies and use fact and truth please.  Thanks and have a
great day sir.

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Nicolas Michel]

Jordon,

You have wrong. Chromium is and ever was the core of the web browser from
Google. And it is open source (there was no before, no after, no fork - it
is the core). Google Chrome is that core, plus a certain amout of code
which is not open-source and so, you don't have access to the source code
of Google Chrome itself (which is a packages chromium + other codes).

Nevetheless it was not the point: Daniel said that the package
chromium-browser is outdated. It has been verified. That's it.

Regards,
Nicolas

2012/9/4 Jordon Bedwell 

> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Benjamin Kerensa 
> wrote:
> > Daniel is talking about chromium-browser not Google Chrome which is
> closed
> > source and he is correct chromium-browser is outdated since the
> maintainer
> > of the package has moved on to other projects.
>
> Please don't spread lies.  The bulk (most of) of Google Chrome is open
> source, it's called, wait for it...Chromiumn.  The way you talk you
> seem to think that Chrome started as a fork of Chromium that was
> "closed off" when Chromium was a fork of Chrome that went open source,
> which means that the truth is, the bulk (most of) of Chrome is open
> source and you are spreading lies.
>
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Jordon Bedwell]

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Benjamin Kerensa  wrote:
> Daniel is talking about chromium-browser not Google Chrome which is closed
> source and he is correct chromium-browser is outdated since the maintainer
> of the package has moved on to other projects.

Please don't spread lies.  The bulk (most of) of Google Chrome is open
source, it's called, wait for it...Chromiumn.  The way you talk you
seem to think that Chrome started as a fork of Chromium that was
"closed off" when Chromium was a fork of Chrome that went open source,
which means that the truth is, the bulk (most of) of Chrome is open
source and you are spreading lies.

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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[Benjamin Kerensa]

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:33 PM, LD 'Gus' Landis  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Daniel Hollocher <
> danielholloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> why?  (we have 18, but 21 is the latest stable, 19 the latest
>> supported or something like that [22 is the current beta, 23 is the
>> current dev])
>>
>>
> Dear Daniel,
>
> Either you provoked something or...  I am running 12.04 and just
> now the update services loaded a new version of Chrome.  Currently
> running Chrome Version 21.0.1180.89 here.
>
> Cheers,
>   --ldl
>


 Hi ldl,

Daniel is talking about chromium-browser not Google Chrome which is closed
source and he is correct chromium-browser is outdated since the maintainer
of the package has moved on to other projects.

I'm certain there are people who would be happy to sponsor some uploads if
anyone wanted to pickup the task of maintaining the package.

Cheers,

Benjamin


>
>
>
>> Something should change.  Version 18 is in the archives and the
>> various ppas.  As far as I can tell, 18 should not be made available
>> to users since it is considered outdated.
>>
>> Anyway, I have no inside knowledge of this issue.  I came upon this
>> while trying to report a bug, and then it was explained that the
>> version I was running was terribly outdated.
>>
>> *shrug*
>> Dan
>>
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>
>
>
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> NOTE: If it is important CALL ME - I may miss email,
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Re: chromium no longer maintained

[LD 'Gus' Landis]

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Daniel Hollocher  wrote:

> why?  (we have 18, but 21 is the latest stable, 19 the latest
> supported or something like that [22 is the current beta, 23 is the
> current dev])
>
>
Dear Daniel,

Either you provoked something or...  I am running 12.04 and just
now the update services loaded a new version of Chrome.  Currently
running Chrome Version 21.0.1180.89 here.

Cheers,
  --ldl



> Something should change.  Version 18 is in the archives and the
> various ppas.  As far as I can tell, 18 should not be made available
> to users since it is considered outdated.
>
> Anyway, I have no inside knowledge of this issue.  I came upon this
> while trying to report a bug, and then it was explained that the
> version I was running was terribly outdated.
>
> *shrug*
> Dan
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>



-- 
---
NOTE: If it is important CALL ME - I may miss email,
which I do NOT normally check on weekends nor on
a regular basis during any other day.
---
LD Landis - N0YRQ - de la tierra del encanto
3960 Schooner Loop, Las Cruces, NM 88012
651-340-4007  N32 21'48.28" W106 46'5.80"
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