Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 22:53 -0600, Chris Cheney wrote: > On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 17:13 -0600, Patrick Goetz wrote: > > I've been out of the loop for a couple of months, so pardon me if this > > has already been discussed, but Karmic got thoroughly trashed in a > > TomsHardware.com review: > > > >http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-karmic-koala,2484.html > > > > Some of these issues (system freezes when copying large files on ext4) > > I've never heard of before. > > If its anything like what I see on ext3, I have been plagued by that for > many years. I have heard rumors 2.6.32 in Lucid traded off some > performance to hopefully finally fix this issue, I sure hope so anyway. After reading close 'freezes' above seems to refer to complete hang of the system, not just not being able to do anything else on the system while the system is doing a copy. That is what I see on my systems and was referring to having been fixed in 2.6.32. Chris -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 17:13 -0600, Patrick Goetz wrote: > I've been out of the loop for a couple of months, so pardon me if this > has already been discussed, but Karmic got thoroughly trashed in a > TomsHardware.com review: > >http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-karmic-koala,2484.html > > Some of these issues (system freezes when copying large files on ext4) > I've never heard of before. If its anything like what I see on ext3, I have been plagued by that for many years. I have heard rumors 2.6.32 in Lucid traded off some performance to hopefully finally fix this issue, I sure hope so anyway. > My personal gripes with karmic were finding out that fakeraid now > doesn't work at all, a regression caused by grub2 > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/392136) > and that the network applet, nm-applet still doesn't work in a > multi-user context: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/284596 > > > Either of these is a deal killer for some significant fraction of users > (e.g. dual booters or household shared PC users, respectively). -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
I like how they blamed the software center UI for repo slowness. Clearly a well thought out article. Dan --- Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Open Standards! Sent from Gainesville, FL, United States On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote: > I've been out of the loop for a couple of months, so pardon me if this > has already been discussed, but Karmic got thoroughly trashed in a > TomsHardware.com review: > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-karmic-koala,2484.html > > Some of these issues (system freezes when copying large files on ext4) > I've never heard of before. > > My personal gripes with karmic were finding out that fakeraid now > doesn't work at all, a regression caused by grub2 > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/392136) > and that the network applet, nm-applet still doesn't work in a > multi-user context: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/284596 > > > Either of these is a deal killer for some significant fraction of users > (e.g. dual booters or household shared PC users, respectively). > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
Am 08.12.2009 um 11:03 schrieb James Hogarth: > Given these were desktops the possible loss in FS reliability on > crash is an acceptable tradeoff Neither crashes nor less than 100% file system reliabilty are acceptable. Never ever. An operating system isn't a children's playground. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
Well over here carried out 2 upgrades and 2 fresh installs so far. Couple of minor issues but nothing bug worthy. We use nVidia cards and dual monitors - had the 'cannot parse xorg.conf' documented issue when configuring twinview (simple enough to sort out). Also had an issue with filesystem performance on ext3 and ext4 with ordered journaling and grails (groovy on rails) which caused ~50% I/Owait on running tests and consequently very slow performance. Tests running took 4x as long as on jaunty Mounting with a writeback journal and noatimes brought performance back in line. Given these were desktops the possible loss in FS reliability on crash is an acceptable tradeoff for the reduced testing time or else productivity takes a big hit. 2009/12/8 Paul Smith > On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 11:07 +0800, Tim Hawkins wrote: > > I dont know if it is relevant, but looking at the specs of the two > > "unstable" machines listed in the article, both had nVidia chipsets > > > > The one machine (netbook) that they said worked perfectly had an Intel > > Graphics chipset. > > > > Given the amount of discussion relating to problems with the nVidia > > drivers in Karmic, could this be a factor in this review.? > > One never knows, of course, but FYI I have one system at home with an > Intel graphics chipset, and two systems at work both with Nvidia cards > using the proprietary drivers (both have dual monitors attached). > > All three work just fine in Karmic, and have from the beginning (no > upgrade issues to speak of). > > We've upgraded probably about 15 systems at work and only two problems: > one was that the screensaver enabled during the upgrade and, since that > person was mounting their home directory over NFS and it tried to > restart NFS, badness happened so that we couldn't get rid of the > screensaver by hand, and it was putting up a dialog asking about > overwriting some file. I had to C-A-F1, login there, and kill it; the > upgrade finished just fine from there. The other I'm not sure what > happened: they did it while I wasn't around :-) > > > I did see a problem on my system at home (Intel graphics) when I had the > screensaver set to "Random": my kernel panicked twice in one day while I > was away from my desk. I switched back to "Blank" which is what I > always use anyway, and haven't seen a single glitch since. I'm assuming > there're one or more bugs still in the Intel driver WRT GL graphics or > similar. > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 11:07 +0800, Tim Hawkins wrote: > I dont know if it is relevant, but looking at the specs of the two > "unstable" machines listed in the article, both had nVidia chipsets > > The one machine (netbook) that they said worked perfectly had an Intel > Graphics chipset. > > Given the amount of discussion relating to problems with the nVidia > drivers in Karmic, could this be a factor in this review.? One never knows, of course, but FYI I have one system at home with an Intel graphics chipset, and two systems at work both with Nvidia cards using the proprietary drivers (both have dual monitors attached). All three work just fine in Karmic, and have from the beginning (no upgrade issues to speak of). We've upgraded probably about 15 systems at work and only two problems: one was that the screensaver enabled during the upgrade and, since that person was mounting their home directory over NFS and it tried to restart NFS, badness happened so that we couldn't get rid of the screensaver by hand, and it was putting up a dialog asking about overwriting some file. I had to C-A-F1, login there, and kill it; the upgrade finished just fine from there. The other I'm not sure what happened: they did it while I wasn't around :-) I did see a problem on my system at home (Intel graphics) when I had the screensaver set to "Random": my kernel panicked twice in one day while I was away from my desk. I switched back to "Blank" which is what I always use anyway, and haven't seen a single glitch since. I'm assuming there're one or more bugs still in the Intel driver WRT GL graphics or similar. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Tim Hawkins wrote: > Given the amount of discussion relating to problems with the nVidia drivers > in Karmic, could this be a factor in this review.? Given the number of bugs filed incorrectly against the Ubuntu PulseAudio source package involving proprietary graphics drivers, I'm inclined to think there is no mere coincidence. Then again, I've been head-down fixing linux and pulse issues lately, so add your mountain of salt... -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
I dont know if it is relevant, but looking at the specs of the two "unstable" machines listed in the article, both had nVidia chipsets The one machine (netbook) that they said worked perfectly had an Intel Graphics chipset. Given the amount of discussion relating to problems with the nVidia drivers in Karmic, could this be a factor in this review.? On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Shentino wrote: > Indeed this list lately has been buzzing somewhat with grumpy messages > regarding Karmic's bellyflop. > > I must admit that some of mine could have been a bit less condescending than > they were. > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote: > I've been out of the loop for a couple of months, so pardon me if this > has already been discussed, but Karmic got thoroughly trashed in a > TomsHardware.com review: > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-karmic-koala,2484.html > > Some of these issues (system freezes when copying large files on ext4) > I've never heard of before. > > My personal gripes with karmic were finding out that fakeraid now > doesn't work at all, a regression caused by grub2 > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/392136) > and that the network applet, nm-applet still doesn't work in a > multi-user context: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/284596 > > > Either of these is a deal killer for some significant fraction of users > (e.g. dual booters or household shared PC users, respectively). > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: karmic trashed in Tomshardware.com
Indeed this list lately has been buzzing somewhat with grumpy messages regarding Karmic's bellyflop. I must admit that some of mine could have been a bit less condescending than they were. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Patrick Goetz wrote: > I've been out of the loop for a couple of months, so pardon me if this > has already been discussed, but Karmic got thoroughly trashed in a > TomsHardware.com review: > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-karmic-koala,2484.html > > Some of these issues (system freezes when copying large files on ext4) > I've never heard of before. > > My personal gripes with karmic were finding out that fakeraid now > doesn't work at all, a regression caused by grub2 > (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/392136) > and that the network applet, nm-applet still doesn't work in a > multi-user context: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/284596 > > > Either of these is a deal killer for some significant fraction of users > (e.g. dual booters or household shared PC users, respectively). > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
