Re: System-Administration cleanup
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew East wrote on 23/10/08 14:37: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Isn't gnome-control-center the answer to this? ... The Control Center makes scanning the available settings easier, and avoids the increasingly-meaningless distinction between Preferences and Administration. And it saves two clicks (or one drag), compared with the Preferences/Administration menus, whenever you open the wrong settings window by mistake. However, the Control Center adds an extra click whenever you access any settings from it, because you need to close the Control Center once you've finished. And the Filter (eh?) searches only the names of the settings windows, not their contents or synonyms: for example searching for modem or wallpaper returns nothing except a shocked-looking yellow ball. Both these problems are solvable. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkBt4oACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpbSACgypevTxe9pyowsAK6y2Y3hz+7 2GsAn1UJdxKW3YY3WO89YklVSwA1yTiQ =wjaD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 12:54 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The Control Center makes scanning the available settings easier, and avoids the increasingly-meaningless distinction between Preferences and Administration. And it saves two clicks (or one drag), compared with the Preferences/Administration menus, whenever you open the wrong settings window by mistake. However, the Control Center adds an extra click whenever you access any settings from it, because you need to close the Control Center once you've finished. And the Filter (eh?) searches only the names of the settings windows, not their contents or synonyms: for example searching for modem or wallpaper returns nothing except a shocked-looking yellow ball. Both these problems are solvable. I saw this today as well: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomecc-list/2008-October/msg1.html I assume the shell is the same thing as the Control Center that you refer to? Thanks, James -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
Hi, On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew East wrote on 23/10/08 14:37: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Isn't gnome-control-center the answer to this? ... The Control Center makes scanning the available settings easier, and avoids the increasingly-meaningless distinction between Preferences and Administration. Right: that's what I like best about it. At the very least, even if its decided to keep the utilities in the menu rather than using the control center, the same structure in terms of categories of applications could be kept: this would have the benefit of reusing thinking and work done upstream. But my personal preference would be to have the control center and fix any problems in it. In the end, I guess all this discussion and work should take place directly upstream anyway, ideally. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 12:54 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: However, the Control Center adds an extra click whenever you access any settings from it, because you need to close the Control Center once you've finished. And the Filter (eh?) searches only the names of the settings windows, not their contents or synonyms: for example searching for modem or wallpaper returns nothing except a shocked-looking yellow ball. Both these problems are solvable. The filter also needs a clear icon, like the little broom in Rhythmbox. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 14:12 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 12:54 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: However, the Control Center adds an extra click whenever you access any settings from it, because you need to close the Control Center once you've finished. And the Filter (eh?) searches only the names of the settings windows, not their contents or synonyms: for example searching for modem or wallpaper returns nothing except a shocked-looking yellow ball. Both these problems are solvable. The filter also needs a clear icon, like the little broom in Rhythmbox. That's not just an icon, it's a button that clears the filter and shows you all items again. Probably quite useful, but maybe not very obvious. Thanks, James -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 19:20 +0100, James Westby wrote: On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 14:12 -0400, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 12:54 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: However, the Control Center adds an extra click whenever you access any settings from it, because you need to close the Control Center once you've finished. And the Filter (eh?) searches only the names of the settings windows, not their contents or synonyms: for example searching for modem or wallpaper returns nothing except a shocked-looking yellow ball. Both these problems are solvable. The filter also needs a clear icon, like the little broom in Rhythmbox. That's not just an icon, it's a button that clears the filter and shows you all items again. Probably quite useful, but maybe not very obvious. Eh, you got what I was talking about. Obviously a non-functional one wouldn't be too helpful! :P -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Isn't gnome-control-center the answer to this? Having tried OpenSUSE and noting a big improvement on Ubuntu in the way preference tools are presented, I raised the issue of its activation by default in Ubuntu a while back on the -desktop list, and there was a brief discussion about the fact that it seems to be rather slow to appear on some systems, but no serious discussion or justification offered for including the long unwieldy menus. Even if gnome-control-center has some bugs, I would have thought that working on those is more efficient and upstream friendly than redesigning the menu. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
AFAIK, these are real bugs as most are in conflict with this implemented blueprint : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited The separation between Applications System Tools and the System menu must be removed. This will be achieved by removing the items in Applications System Tools * With above, items that are mostly system administration tasks and/or use gksudo should be moved to System Administration * Items which affect only the current user are to be moved to System Preferences * _Anything else that is not going to be hidden/removed is moved to Applications Accessories_ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 14:37 +0100, Matthew East wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Isn't gnome-control-center the answer to this? Having tried OpenSUSE and noting a big improvement on Ubuntu in the way preference tools are presented, I raised the issue of its activation by default in Ubuntu a while back on the -desktop list, and there was a brief discussion about the fact that it seems to be rather slow to appear on some systems, but no serious discussion or justification offered for including the long unwieldy menus. It's still overcrowded and doesn't address the fact that many of the items should really combine for clarity. Keyboard, keyboard shortcuts, OnBoard...those seem like they could all go together. Printing and Default Printer? Put them together. Preferred Applications and Removable Drives and Media should go together as well. Removable Drives and Media is really preferred applications for handling removable drives and media, so it doesn't really need to be separate. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
Hi, On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 14:37 +0100, Matthew East wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Isn't gnome-control-center the answer to this? Having tried OpenSUSE and noting a big improvement on Ubuntu in the way preference tools are presented, I raised the issue of its activation by default in Ubuntu a while back on the -desktop list, and there was a brief discussion about the fact that it seems to be rather slow to appear on some systems, but no serious discussion or justification offered for including the long unwieldy menus. It's still overcrowded and doesn't address the fact that many of the items should really combine for clarity. Keyboard, keyboard shortcuts, OnBoard...those seem like they could all go together. Printing and Default Printer? Put them together. Preferred Applications and Removable Drives and Media should go together as well. Removable Drives and Media is really preferred applications for handling removable drives and media, so it doesn't really need to be separate. That is of course true, but it's a separate problem, not a problem with gnome-control-center. It exists both in the Ubuntu menu and in gnome-control-center. I'm fairly sure it's a known problem upstream and there is at least some gradual work to combine utilities (such as the Appearance utility). -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
System-Administration cleanup
Hello, I reported and subscribed to different bugs asking to move things into and out from System-Administration GNOME menu. Sebastien Bacher wrote that these were not bugs and should be discussed on the list instead. So here you are : system monitor should be moved in accessories, don't belong in administration https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/286929 system-cleaner should go in System-Administration, not in applications as it requires a password and is used for administrative tasks https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/286458 network tools should be moved in Internet, don't belong in administration https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/286931 The discussion stemmed from this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/274714 I always explain my users that System-Preferences modifies things about the current user and System-Administration modifies system related things (requiring a password and affecting all users). However some applications in these places make my definition wrong. What do you people think about it ? Thanks and best regards -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: System-Administration cleanup
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jonathan Ernst wrote on 21/10/08 13:48: ... I always explain my users that System-Preferences modifies things about the current user and System-Administration modifies system related things (requiring a password and affecting all users). However some applications in these places make my definition wrong. What do you people think about it ? ... This distinction is blurring. See for example System Administration Users and Groups, which lets you change your own account settings *or* enter an admin password to change others; and System Preferences Keyboard Layouts Apply System-Wide, which lets you apply your personal keyboard settings to the login screen (and to any user accounts created afterward). I'm working on a design to combine the Preferences and Administration menus into something more wieldy. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj+H1gACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrQngCeJ7b7ydbO4/ZBl5z7o+e+bgdd K7YAnA/Y9sk3nFIlOAexg0DXu27Uy07r =c/NJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
