Re: Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus?? ( repost)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael T wrote on 12/02/08 00:53: >... > Something which slightly annoys me in Ubuntu (and more generally in > KDE and Gnome) is the overuse of icons in menus. Most (if not all) GUI > style guidelines recommend only using icons in menus where they are > instantly recognisable to the user, so that they can identify the menu > entry from the icon faster than they would be able to read the menu > text. See for instance > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_17_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3356-TPXREF116. > > In other situations, the icon slows the user down, as they will > automatically look at the icon before they read the text. If you > look at for example the "K" menu in Kubuntu, you will see that every > menu entry, including every application listed, has an icon next to > it, which to my mind makes it look somewhat unprofessional. > Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I realise of course that in > many cases this is something that can only be fixed upstream, but I > wanted to start a discussion somewhere :) >... I agree that Gnome applications use icons in many places, including buttons as well as menus, where text alone would be both more elegant and faster to understand. This seems to be an example of copying Microsoft (and, in the case of buttons, Borland) too closely. This will need to be fixed upstream, in the Gnome HIGs, in GTK stock items, and in individual applications. In the specific case of the Applications menu, however, an icon is an important part of an application's branding, so removing the icons would be weird. This still wouldn't solve the problem of the icon slowing people down, though. A difficult solution would be to abolish the idea of "applications" entirely, so that they would not need branding. An easier solution would be to present applications not in a menu, but in some other way where their icons are bigger and therefore more recognizable. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHuluQ6PUxNfU6ecoRAlicAJ4rR+JwjErrpGHoIxtik6PEEnW9SACdG9NU I/NXJ1L1FZRON2mXeEjnBNI= =woR1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus? (repost)
> If you see a chair for the first time in your life, will you know what the > word "chair" means? > > BTW, did you ever try to explain some icon-only thing solely with > words (like, over the phone)? > > That's why we have both. It's not like we leave words out completely (like > the OLPC Sugar interface does...that thing is confusing). Another example of what I meant - look in the Konqueror "Settings" menu. There is an icon for "Hide menubar" - the word "File" cut off to look like "Fili". Is that really a memorable symbol for the concept that users will be able to identify faster than the text? And there are icons for "Configure Shortcuts...", "Configure Toolbars..." and "Configure Konqueror...", all variants of a spanner icon which I have trouble telling apart without looking closely. Compare the Firefox menus, which have virtually no icons at all. I personally do not find this disturbing (do others?) Regards, Michael _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus? (repost)
On Feb 12, 2008 1:53 PM, Markus Hitter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Am 12.02.2008 um 01:04 schrieb Ioannis Nousias: > > > In real life we see a chair (for instance) and we know it's a > > chair. We don't need a little label there telling us it's a chair ;) > > If you see a chair the first time in your life, you actually need a > label (or somebody telling you what this thing is). Furthermore, not > every piece of software is as commonly known as a chair. There's so > much software today you even start to forget rarely used icons over > time. > If you see a chair for the first time in your life, will you know what the word "chair" means? BTW, did you ever try to explain some icon-only thing solely with > words (like, over the phone)? > That's why we have both. It's not like we leave words out completely (like the OLPC Sugar interface does...that thing is confusing). -- Mackenzie Morgan Linux User #432169 ACM Member #3445683 http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com <-my blog of Ubuntu stuff apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus? ( repost)
Am 12.02.2008 um 01:04 schrieb Ioannis Nousias: > In real life we see a chair (for instance) and we know it's a > chair. We don't need a little label there telling us it's a chair ;) If you see a chair the first time in your life, you actually need a label (or somebody telling you what this thing is). Furthermore, not every piece of software is as commonly known as a chair. There's so much software today you even start to forget rarely used icons over time. BTW, did you ever try to explain some icon-only thing solely with words (like, over the phone)? If you solve these things, Icons are great. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus? (repost)
2008/2/11 Michael T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I'm sorry, I am short of sleep at the moment and sent this without a > subject. > > === Reposted message=== > Hello, > > I originally posted this as a wishlist item on Launchpad, but was advised > to send it to the appropriate > mailing list (so I hope that this is it :) ). Something which slightly > annoys me in Ubuntu (and more > generally in KDE and Gnome) is the overuse of icons in menus. Most (if > not all) GUI style guidelines > recommend only using icons in menus where they are instantly recognisable > to the user, so that they can > identify the menu entry from the icon faster than they would be able to > read the menu text. See for > instance > > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_17_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3356-TPXREF116 > . > In other situations, the icon slows the user down, as they will > automatically look at the icon before they > read the text. If you look at for example the "K" menu in Kubuntu, you > will see that every menu entry, > including every application listed, has an icon next to it, which to my > mind makes it look somewhat > unprofessional. > Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I realise of course that in many > cases this is something that can > only be fixed upstream, but I wanted to start a discussion somewhere :) > > Regards, > > Michael > > BTW, please excuse the messy hotmail formatting - this is my "disposable" > address for posting to mailing > lists and things where it will be publically visible. > _ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > Michael, I actually find it more annoying to not have an icon. For example, in my Gutsy build w/ KDE4 running I have Konsole showing up as kde4-konsole withouth the icon in the Application Launcher. To me this is more annoying and unproffesional looking then having the icon there. But its probablly something I did that has changed my system that way. Jonathan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Too many icons in the Ubuntu menus? (repost)
I'm sorry, I am short of sleep at the moment and sent this without a subject. === Reposted message=== Hello, I originally posted this as a wishlist item on Launchpad, but was advised to send it to the appropriate mailing list (so I hope that this is it :) ). Something which slightly annoys me in Ubuntu (and more generally in KDE and Gnome) is the overuse of icons in menus. Most (if not all) GUI style guidelines recommend only using icons in menus where they are instantly recognisable to the user, so that they can identify the menu entry from the icon faster than they would be able to read the menu text. See for instance http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_17_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3356-TPXREF116. In other situations, the icon slows the user down, as they will automatically look at the icon before they read the text. If you look at for example the "K" menu in Kubuntu, you will see that every menu entry, including every application listed, has an icon next to it, which to my mind makes it look somewhat unprofessional. Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I realise of course that in many cases this is something that can only be fixed upstream, but I wanted to start a discussion somewhere :) Regards, Michael BTW, please excuse the messy hotmail formatting - this is my "disposable" address for posting to mailing lists and things where it will be publically visible. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
