Next Ubuntu Gaming Team meeting, 09/27 in #ubuntu-meeting!
Please forward widely http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/09/calling-all-foss-game-artists-and-free.html The first Ubuntu Gaming Team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam meeting was a huge success! With over *two hours* of discussion going strong, we covered a lot of ground. One of the major topics for out next meeting, and our most ambitious project, is coordinating the creation of a distributed content developmenthttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Projects/DistributedContentDevelopment platform. For this, we will need lots of input from FOSS game artists and free content producers like the Blender Open Movie Project. The meeting will be on 9/27 @ 19:00 UTChttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=9day=27year=2009hour=19min=0sec=0p1=0 in #ubuntu-meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2009-09-27 Please contribute to the agenda! Lack of good content is the #1 impediment for FOSS games. Most developers are not artists and the challenge of content creation is much more difficult than code. The need for FOSS content is the same for code, but current platforms that exist for code do not offer features needed for content. Code is all text and much easier to handle, while content is difficult as you cannot “diff” a picture or a blender file. On top of that, while distributed code development has been refined since computers were invented, content is a much newer ground, especially to apply FOSS distributed development to, and it simply hasn't received any of the focus and effort that code has. We need input to help agree on a base for the platform and what features are most needed. Additionally, we might like to look to Canonical and/or the Blender Institute for support as they will benefit most from and be willing to contribute to such a project. -- ☮♥Ⓐ - http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Reminder: First Ubuntu Gaming Team Meeting!
Last-minute reminder! The meeting is in 20 minutes! (i'm only cross-posting because this is our first and crucial meeting. future meetings won't be promoted like this) On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 01:29, Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote: I just wanted to remind everybody interested about the upcoming Ubuntu Gaming Team meeting in #ubuntu-gaming http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/06/first-ubuntu-gaming-team-meeting.html Here's the Agenda so far: - Defining our team - Address concerns - Go over goals, purpose, and scope - Technical discussions - How to coordinate with Debian and Freedesktop games - What we can do within the scope of the team - LP #386797 to address the need for distributed content development - Projects - Ubuntu Gaming Clan - Play cross-platform FOSS games with an Ubuntu gamer tag - Organization - What games? - Fundraisers - How often - How to elect games - How to collect and distribute funds - Tournaments and Matches - What games? - How to organize - New ideas - Propose new projects - Future meetings - Plan next one - Set a regular schedule - Jobs - Projects leaders - Lead specific projects - Meetings Coordinator(s) - Update google calendar and wiki for meetings, manage agenda, and record proceedings - Co-team leader - Help DPic manage the team - Others? - Closing - Ending questions comments -- http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo -- http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Reminder: First Ubuntu Gaming Team Meeting!
I just wanted to remind everybody interested about the upcoming Ubuntu Gaming Team meeting in #ubuntu-gaming http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/06/first-ubuntu-gaming-team-meeting.html Here's the Agenda so far: - Defining our team - Address concerns - Go over goals, purpose, and scope - Technical discussions - How to coordinate with Debian and Freedesktop games - What we can do within the scope of the team - LP #386797 to address the need for distributed content development - Projects - Ubuntu Gaming Clan - Play cross-platform FOSS games with an Ubuntu gamer tag - Organization - What games? - Fundraisers - How often - How to elect games - How to collect and distribute funds - Tournaments and Matches - What games? - How to organize - New ideas - Propose new projects - Future meetings - Plan next one - Set a regular schedule - Jobs - Projects leaders - Lead specific projects - Meetings Coordinator(s) - Update google calendar and wiki for meetings, manage agenda, and record proceedings - Co-team leader - Help DPic manage the team - Others? - Closing - Ending questions comments -- http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Ubuntu Gaming Team
To everyone interested, our first meeting will be on july 26th at 19:00 UTC in #ubuntu-gaming*http://www.reddit.com/tb/8w4tn* This is a good time to address still existing concerns On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 02:05, Emmet Hikory per...@ubuntu.com wrote: Danny Piccirillo wrote: Sorry i dropped off the face of the planet for a while. I am back now! I have heard all of the concerns, and i hope i can address them now. I am open to change the team, and i want to sincerely apologize for all the confusion and misunderstanding. One of the first changes i made to the team was linking to the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games from the wiki and launchpad page. People noticed that although i stated that the team would only be working from a marketing/advocacy standpoint, i went on about an advantage to FOSS gaming is that code and content can be reused, but that was not to say that /we/ would be dealing with any actual game development. There was a lot of talk about assigning bugs to the team and dealing with bugs through the team. I do not think this team should have that focus at all. As said before, the Debian Games Team can already handle that. What this team can do is tap into the Ubuntu community which i am sure is full of gamers who want to get involved with spreading the love. Members of this team can pass ideas onto developers, and bridge connections between users (which most of the team should be made up of) and the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games, where appropriate, of course. There are also a lot of things that we will do that i don't believe falls under the scope of the Debian Games Team or Freedesktop Games. fundraisers, game tournaments, creating an Ubuntu Gaming Clan, etc. I'm having trouble responding to all of the concerns, so could someone list all of the issues that have been raised so far in a bulleted list if the above doesn't cover everything already? The last question is what to do next. Is a new name really necessary at this point? And if so, what should the new name be? Danny, If you have the time to lead the team in efforts towards advocacy, events, etc., and are able to help build consensus by those interested in the team that this is the direction of the team, you end up addressing many of my concerns. I'm still a little unhappy with the name, because I think that people have interpreted it incorrectly in the past, and would expect them to interpret it incorrectly in the future, but if it is a sufficiently dynamic team, with strong relations to related teams (without overlapping areas of activity), it may have a place. That said, I called for the team to be uncreated, rather than simply for a name change. My personal feeling is that the work is better done as a collaboration between the Marketing and LoCo teams, rather than as a separate team. Specifically that I believe the Marketing team would do well to develop greater documentation on best practices for advocacy and events, and the LoCo teams are in the best position to implement these between real people around the world. In the specific area of Gaming, I would expect the Marketing team to develop guidelines on how to run a tournament, prepare distributable materials discussing how Ubuntu is good for gamers, and similar work. I would expect the LoCo teams to actually hold the tournaments, and promote Ubuntu as a gaming platform. My hope is that by demonstrating how this could work for Gaming, those interested in other areas (e.g. science, education, audio production, etc.) would be able to build similar parallel efforts, sharing experiences on doing things within the Marketing and LoCo teams, rather than creating separate teams for each area of endeavour. Whether that social model is one that those who end up building the documentation and doing the promotion prefer, or whether those in each area of endeavour would prefer to have separate teams is not something I know, but I prefer to avoid separation where possible, and rather integrate people working on the same thing with different foci into functional teams, as I believe this leads to better communication of best practices to accomplish known goals. Regardless of the social model selected, I do believe that this is work worth doing. While there are a number of resources for developers of free games, there are few resources for users or promoters. Better information about available games, guidance on setting up tournaments and local servers for gaming parties, presentation materials demonstrating the value of Ubuntu as a gaming platform, and similar would all be valuable. I suspect that a fair amount of the initial rejection was related to surprise and confusion based purely on the name and apparent lack of coordination with those already working in what were perceived as overlapping areas, but I'm not sufficiently sure of the full set of
Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Ubuntu Gaming Team
Danny Piccirillo wrote: Sorry i dropped off the face of the planet for a while. I am back now! I have heard all of the concerns, and i hope i can address them now. I am open to change the team, and i want to sincerely apologize for all the confusion and misunderstanding. One of the first changes i made to the team was linking to the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games from the wiki and launchpad page. People noticed that although i stated that the team would only be working from a marketing/advocacy standpoint, i went on about an advantage to FOSS gaming is that code and content can be reused, but that was not to say that /we/ would be dealing with any actual game development. There was a lot of talk about assigning bugs to the team and dealing with bugs through the team. I do not think this team should have that focus at all. As said before, the Debian Games Team can already handle that. What this team can do is tap into the Ubuntu community which i am sure is full of gamers who want to get involved with spreading the love. Members of this team can pass ideas onto developers, and bridge connections between users (which most of the team should be made up of) and the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games, where appropriate, of course. There are also a lot of things that we will do that i don't believe falls under the scope of the Debian Games Team or Freedesktop Games. fundraisers, game tournaments, creating an Ubuntu Gaming Clan, etc. I'm having trouble responding to all of the concerns, so could someone list all of the issues that have been raised so far in a bulleted list if the above doesn't cover everything already? The last question is what to do next. Is a new name really necessary at this point? And if so, what should the new name be? Danny, If you have the time to lead the team in efforts towards advocacy, events, etc., and are able to help build consensus by those interested in the team that this is the direction of the team, you end up addressing many of my concerns. I'm still a little unhappy with the name, because I think that people have interpreted it incorrectly in the past, and would expect them to interpret it incorrectly in the future, but if it is a sufficiently dynamic team, with strong relations to related teams (without overlapping areas of activity), it may have a place. That said, I called for the team to be uncreated, rather than simply for a name change. My personal feeling is that the work is better done as a collaboration between the Marketing and LoCo teams, rather than as a separate team. Specifically that I believe the Marketing team would do well to develop greater documentation on best practices for advocacy and events, and the LoCo teams are in the best position to implement these between real people around the world. In the specific area of Gaming, I would expect the Marketing team to develop guidelines on how to run a tournament, prepare distributable materials discussing how Ubuntu is good for gamers, and similar work. I would expect the LoCo teams to actually hold the tournaments, and promote Ubuntu as a gaming platform. My hope is that by demonstrating how this could work for Gaming, those interested in other areas (e.g. science, education, audio production, etc.) would be able to build similar parallel efforts, sharing experiences on doing things within the Marketing and LoCo teams, rather than creating separate teams for each area of endeavour. Whether that social model is one that those who end up building the documentation and doing the promotion prefer, or whether those in each area of endeavour would prefer to have separate teams is not something I know, but I prefer to avoid separation where possible, and rather integrate people working on the same thing with different foci into functional teams, as I believe this leads to better communication of best practices to accomplish known goals. Regardless of the social model selected, I do believe that this is work worth doing. While there are a number of resources for developers of free games, there are few resources for users or promoters. Better information about available games, guidance on setting up tournaments and local servers for gaming parties, presentation materials demonstrating the value of Ubuntu as a gaming platform, and similar would all be valuable. I suspect that a fair amount of the initial rejection was related to surprise and confusion based purely on the name and apparent lack of coordination with those already working in what were perceived as overlapping areas, but I'm not sufficiently sure of the full set of complaints by others to be comfortable generating a bulleted list that would be complete enough for direct response. -- Emmet HIKORY -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Ubuntu Gaming Team
Hey everyone, Sorry i dropped off the face of the planet for a while. I am back now! I have heard all of the concerns, and i hope i can address them now. I am open to change the team, and i want to sincerely apologize for all the confusion and misunderstanding. One of the first changes i made to the team was linking to the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games from the wiki and launchpad page. People noticed that although i stated that the team would only be working from a marketing/advocacy standpoint, i went on about an advantage to FOSS gaming is that code and content can be reused, but that was not to say that *we* would be dealing with any actual game development. There was a lot of talk about assigning bugs to the team and dealing with bugs through the team. I do not think this team should have that focus at all. As said before, the Debian Games Team can already handle that. What this team can do is tap into the Ubuntu community which i am sure is full of gamers who want to get involved with spreading the love. Members of this team can pass ideas onto developers, and bridge connections between users (which most of the team should be made up of) and the Debian Games Team and Freedesktop Games, where appropriate, of course. There are also a lot of things that we will do that i don't believe falls under the scope of the Debian Games Team or Freedesktop Games. fundraisers, game tournaments, creating an Ubuntu Gaming Clan, etc. I'm having trouble responding to all of the concerns, so could someone list all of the issues that have been raised so far in a bulleted list if the above doesn't cover everything already? The last question is what to do next. Is a new name really necessary at this point? And if so, what should the new name be? On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 13:36, Daniel Hollocher danielholloc...@gmail.comwrote: Hey Danny, So, where are your feelings at after all the discussion regarding your Ubuntu Gaming Team? I feel like Emmet had the best response, and was thinking of following through with it. I wanted to check in, see where you were at. Dan On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Emmet Hikory per...@ubuntu.com wrote: Martin Owens wrote: Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. So long as you can join their mailing list and give the enough homage, I'm sure you can avoid political rumblings. It would be good to be able to join interested people from Ubuntu communities to interested groups in Debian without fear that the people will get caught in a war. Something is unclear here. The Debian Games Team consists of Debian Developers, Ubuntu Developers, and other interested parties, and spends a fair bit of time working on games for *both* Debian and Ubuntu. There is no separation that involves coordination between groups, no need to involve Debian groups, and little value to a conduit. The history of this team includes the previous definition of an Ubuntu Games Team that spent time maintaining games in Ubuntu. After some discussion, it seemed sensible to pool efforts, and the Ubuntu team was merged with the Debian team. As the vast majority of the work needs to be uploaded for both distributions, and Ubuntu has a mechanism to accept an upload prepared for Debian (where Debian has no corresponding means to accept an upload prepared for Ubuntu), the resulting changes are nearly always uploaded to Debian directly (although there are some exceptions due to differences in freeze cycles between the distributions, etc.), and all are tracked in a common revision control system. Work is done to add new games, fix bugs (reported against both Debian and Ubuntu), and improve the user experience in installing, using, and configuring games. So, based on the announcement (1), I see three areas that the proposed new team intends to carry on activities. A: Work to generally improve the state of Free and Open-Source games and the infrastructure to support game development. This work is probably best done in association with the Freedesktop Games team (2), and if interested people work directly as part this team, rather than as a separate Ubuntu Gaming Team, they should be able to attract a wider following, collaborating directly with many parties, rather than restricting themselves to users of a single distribution. B: Work to improve the state of games in Ubuntu As noted above, there is an existing team to accomplish this, and having yet another team just leads to confusion. Anyone who wishes to help fix bugs, coordinate
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Jan Claeys li...@janc.be writes: As explained, users shouldn't assign bugs, but a LP team that subscribes to bugs reported on games is a good idea probably (but maybe that already exists? Reinhard should be able to tell.). Ah, yes, there is already a team for that: https://launchpad.net/~motugames/, but the team seens pretty much abandoned these days. How about reviving that team instead of creating new ones? I can indeed imagine that a bug triaging team, forwarding bugs in games related packages to debian would be a benefit. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu gaming team - raising incidents
Hi folks, If users are assigning bugs to a team, in virtually all cases they are wrong to do so. Assignment indicates some expectation that work will be done. End users do not have the right to direct developers (whether paid or volunteer). Speaking as an end-user, could the original poster be referring to initially raising an incident against the team Linux? I believe this is where an end-user would log the initial incident report to? Sorry for the use of ITIL terms - please feel free to translate to Ubuntu nomenclature... I think ITIL after working in support for quite a long time.. Surely an end-user isn't *directing* developers, but raising a request? Thoughts? Alex Cockell -- Alex Cockell Reading, Berks, UK alcock...@eclipse.co.uk -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu gaming team - raising incidents
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:06:29 +0100 Alex Cockell alcock...@eclipse.co.uk wrote: Hi folks, If users are assigning bugs to a team, in virtually all cases they are wrong to do so. Assignment indicates some expectation that work will be done. End users do not have the right to direct developers (whether paid or volunteer). Speaking as an end-user, could the original poster be referring to initially raising an incident against the team Linux? I believe this is where an end-user would log the initial incident report to? Sorry for the use of ITIL terms - please feel free to translate to Ubuntu nomenclature... I think ITIL after working in support for quite a long time.. Surely an end-user isn't *directing* developers, but raising a request? Thoughts? For users that don't have some kind of commercial support contract (they have their own, separate mechanisms for rasing issues), filing a bug is the appropriate method to bring a system deficiency to developers. In Ubuntu, bug assignment generally carries the connotation of work assigned (either self assigned or by a supervisor in some cases). Some teams may have different policies, but in general it is not appropriate. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Fri, 01 May 2009 03:32:37 +0100 Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com wrote: As explained, users shouldn't assign bugs, but a LP team that subscribes to bugs reported on games is a good idea probably (but maybe that already exists? Reinhard should be able to tell.). s/assign/subscribe OK, I meant subscribe to a team for bugs against games. My apologies for the wording if it caused misunderstanding. It doesn't appear to me that you fully understand. All a user needs to do is file the bug. Bug squad and developers will (to the extent resources are available) will deal with it. Myself, I'm a member of several teams that are subscribed bugs for many packages and subscribe to bugs for a number individual packages. If I'm interested enouggh in a package to have random bugs for land in my inbox, I've already arranged for it. No need to subscribe or assign. If you have a proposed fix, then there are sponsorship teams that should be subscribed to bring the fix to the attention of developers who may upload it. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Thu, 2009-04-30 at 23:26 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Fri, 01 May 2009 03:32:37 +0100 Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com wrote: As explained, users shouldn't assign bugs, but a LP team that subscribes to bugs reported on games is a good idea probably (but maybe that already exists? Reinhard should be able to tell.). s/assign/subscribe OK, I meant subscribe to a team for bugs against games. My apologies for the wording if it caused misunderstanding. It doesn't appear to me that you fully understand. All a user needs to do is file the bug. Bug squad and developers will (to the extent resources are available) will deal with it. Myself, I'm a member of several teams that are subscribed bugs for many packages and subscribe to bugs for a number individual packages. If I'm interested enouggh in a package to have random bugs for land in my inbox, I've already arranged for it. No need to subscribe or assign. If you have a proposed fix, then there are sponsorship teams that should be subscribed to bring the fix to the attention of developers who may upload it. Scott K Thanks Scott. Why I was stuck on user intervention with assigning/subscribing I am not sure. Lets try again... A team that is subscribed bugs is what I was after, though maybe put slightly wrongly as no user intervention is actually needed over and above reporting a bug. What I would like for Ubuntu game package bugs is: - Create a 'games-swat' team for the triage of game bugs in Ubuntu. - Create a 'games-swat-bugs' mailing list. - All bugs reported against game packages in Ubuntu are subscribed to team and email sent to the 'games-swat-bugs' mailing list. - People join the 'games-swat' team. - People subscribe to the 'games-swat-bugs' mailing list which using filters will allow quick isolation of game bugs that a person can then look at and maybe assist with. This is similar to how X Swat works and I feel would be a good way for those 'volunteers' interested in helping with game bugs in Ubuntu to get exactly what they want and nothing else for triage or fixing. How this interacts with Debian is a further discussion but may increase the speed of bugs reports over to Debian and possibly fixes. It may also encourage people to develop directly as part of the joint Debian/Ubuntu development team. Hopefully this is clearer. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:28 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? - It would solve having to go to pages hosted on servers with the self signed certificate problem. Launchpad does not have these issues. - I have been subscribed since yesterday and these lists are spam heaven. Launchpad list control is better by my experience. I am very sure I have not won 2 million euro. ;-) - Ubuntu users want to report and assign bugs to a Ubuntu team on launchpad and not be sent all over the place. This is not about what we know, but what a user knows and expects, which could be very little about what Debian is to Ubuntu etc. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:28 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? - It would solve having to go to pages hosted on servers with the self signed certificate problem. Launchpad does not have these issues. what service is using a self-signed certificate here? IME, all debian services use certificates signed by the SPI CA. - I have been subscribed since yesterday and these lists are spam heaven. Launchpad list control is better by my experience. I am very sure I have not won 2 million euro. ;-) This is pretty much unavoidable if you want to be reachable by users. - Ubuntu users want to report and assign bugs to a Ubuntu team on launchpad and not be sent all over the place. This is not about what we know, but what a user knows and expects, which could be very little about what Debian is to Ubuntu etc. Yes. None of your points answer my question above, btw. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:51:36 +0100 Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:28 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? - It would solve having to go to pages hosted on servers with the self signed certificate problem. Launchpad does not have these issues. - I have been subscribed since yesterday and these lists are spam heaven. Launchpad list control is better by my experience. I am very sure I have not won 2 million euro. ;-) - Ubuntu users want to report and assign bugs to a Ubuntu team on launchpad and not be sent all over the place. This is not about what we know, but what a user knows and expects, which could be very little about what Debian is to Ubuntu etc. If users are assigning bugs to a team, in virtually all cases they are wrong to do so. Assignment indicates some expectation that work will be done. End users do not have the right to direct developers (whether paid or volunteer). We've already been through this once before and concluded that a joint team with Debian is the best way to do this work. Since Debian is our upstream, it makes complete sense to focus the work there. It really seems that this new team is about marketing, so perhaps a clearer choice of names would be helpful and avoid confusion? Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 16:17 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:28 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? - It would solve having to go to pages hosted on servers with the self signed certificate problem. Launchpad does not have these issues. what service is using a self-signed certificate here? IME, all debian services use certificates signed by the SPI CA. http://twitpic.com/47uqk/full That is what you get following the link you provided to the member list using Firefox 8.0.10 on Ubuntu 8.04.x. This just maybe an issue where the certificate has not been updated. - I have been subscribed since yesterday and these lists are spam heaven. Launchpad list control is better by my experience. I am very sure I have not won 2 million euro. ;-) This is pretty much unavoidable if you want to be reachable by users. An attempt to restrict the flow of spam would be nice, but if the attitude is to let it get through then fine. - Ubuntu users want to report and assign bugs to a Ubuntu team on launchpad and not be sent all over the place. This is not about what we know, but what a user knows and expects, which could be very little about what Debian is to Ubuntu etc. Yes. None of your points answer my question above, btw. I think I am trying to address things, but if I waisting my time as the mindset is fixed then I shall pursue this no further. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 10:24 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:51:36 +0100 Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:28 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? - It would solve having to go to pages hosted on servers with the self signed certificate problem. Launchpad does not have these issues. - I have been subscribed since yesterday and these lists are spam heaven. Launchpad list control is better by my experience. I am very sure I have not won 2 million euro. ;-) - Ubuntu users want to report and assign bugs to a Ubuntu team on launchpad and not be sent all over the place. This is not about what we know, but what a user knows and expects, which could be very little about what Debian is to Ubuntu etc. If users are assigning bugs to a team, in virtually all cases they are wrong to do so. Assignment indicates some expectation that work will be done. End users do not have the right to direct developers (whether paid or volunteer). We've already been through this once before and concluded that a joint team with Debian is the best way to do this work. Since Debian is our upstream, it makes complete sense to focus the work there. I had left the subject of this team and was separately exploring the possible need for a swat team also and assigning to a swat team creates no expectation of something being fixed by developers paid or unpaid. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Martin Owens wrote: Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. So long as you can join their mailing list and give the enough homage, I'm sure you can avoid political rumblings. It would be good to be able to join interested people from Ubuntu communities to interested groups in Debian without fear that the people will get caught in a war. Something is unclear here. The Debian Games Team consists of Debian Developers, Ubuntu Developers, and other interested parties, and spends a fair bit of time working on games for *both* Debian and Ubuntu. There is no separation that involves coordination between groups, no need to involve Debian groups, and little value to a conduit. The history of this team includes the previous definition of an Ubuntu Games Team that spent time maintaining games in Ubuntu. After some discussion, it seemed sensible to pool efforts, and the Ubuntu team was merged with the Debian team. As the vast majority of the work needs to be uploaded for both distributions, and Ubuntu has a mechanism to accept an upload prepared for Debian (where Debian has no corresponding means to accept an upload prepared for Ubuntu), the resulting changes are nearly always uploaded to Debian directly (although there are some exceptions due to differences in freeze cycles between the distributions, etc.), and all are tracked in a common revision control system. Work is done to add new games, fix bugs (reported against both Debian and Ubuntu), and improve the user experience in installing, using, and configuring games. So, based on the announcement (1), I see three areas that the proposed new team intends to carry on activities. A: Work to generally improve the state of Free and Open-Source games and the infrastructure to support game development. This work is probably best done in association with the Freedesktop Games team (2), and if interested people work directly as part this team, rather than as a separate Ubuntu Gaming Team, they should be able to attract a wider following, collaborating directly with many parties, rather than restricting themselves to users of a single distribution. B: Work to improve the state of games in Ubuntu As noted above, there is an existing team to accomplish this, and having yet another team just leads to confusion. Anyone who wishes to help fix bugs, coordinate with upstreams, or get more games into Ubuntu ought pursue joining the Debian Games team (3). There was a previous effort to create an Ubuntu-specific team, and the experience of all those involved was that it was far superior to drop that team and collaborate with Debian. C: Use of the improvements above to drive advocacy efforts Without the work above (which is better done as part of the groups listed, rather than in cooperation with them (there is no coordination overhead if there is no distinction), there's not much to do here. As the work above proceeds, I don't see significant value in restricting such advocacy efforts to a subset of the general Ubuntu Marketing team (4): it makes more sense to drive a combined message including all the potential advantages, and again, reduces any coordination overhead if there is not team separation that requires coordination. So, I'll also ask for either the renaming or abolishment of the mooted Ubuntu Gaming Team. Yes, there is a lot of work to do to improve the state of gaming in Ubuntu, but there is significantly more scope for progress by working with the existing groups that have identical goals, a high risk of communication loss by creating a separate team that then requires coordination and extra communication paths, some risk of alienating those already engaged in the work by not including them from the outset (or even discussing the potential creation of the team with them), and potential for confusion to both new contributors and end-users who may then not be sure of the appropriate contact with questions (as most things in areas A and B above would be better asked to the existing teams). Now it may be that the existing teams would benefit from documentation assistance to make the nature of the work done more clear, in which case I'd encourage those prepared to document the current state of things, and better highlight best practices and procedures for further progress to contact the XDG-games team, the Debian Games team , or the Ubuntu Marketing team with proposals for documentation changes to meet the desired goals. 1: http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html 2: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Games/ 3: http://wiki.debian.org/Games 4: https
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 16:07 +0900, Emmet Hikory wrote: Martin Owens wrote: Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. So long as you can join their mailing list and give the enough homage, I'm sure you can avoid political rumblings. It would be good to be able to join interested people from Ubuntu communities to interested groups in Debian without fear that the people will get caught in a war. Something is unclear here. The Debian Games Team consists of Debian Developers, Ubuntu Developers, and other interested parties, and spends a fair bit of time working on games for *both* Debian and Ubuntu. There is no separation that involves coordination between groups, no need to involve Debian groups, and little value to a conduit. The history of this team includes the previous definition of an Ubuntu Games Team that spent time maintaining games in Ubuntu. After some discussion, it seemed sensible to pool efforts, and the Ubuntu team was merged with the Debian team. As the vast majority of the work needs to be uploaded for both distributions, and Ubuntu has a mechanism to accept an upload prepared for Debian (where Debian has no corresponding means to accept an upload prepared for Ubuntu), the resulting changes are nearly always uploaded to Debian directly (although there are some exceptions due to differences in freeze cycles between the distributions, etc.), and all are tracked in a common revision control system. Work is done to add new games, fix bugs (reported against both Debian and Ubuntu), and improve the user experience in installing, using, and configuring games. Where would all the information about who participates in this cross distro team (from Ubuntu) and how bugs should be processed over to Debian from being reported in Ubuntu be located? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games This old and defunct page is very lacking. snip Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games This old and defunct page is very lacking. The page currently reads: , | THIS TEAM IS NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE | | There is currently no active MOTU Games team anymore. All of the former | members now contribute directly in the Debian Games Team. Please see the | following Page for more information: | | http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development ` That is totally accurate, but I agree that the page could definitivly be improved. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 16:14 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games This old and defunct page is very lacking. The page currently reads: , | THIS TEAM IS NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE | | There is currently no active MOTU Games team anymore. All of the former | members now contribute directly in the Debian Games Team. Please see the | following Page for more information: | | http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development ` That is totally accurate, but I agree that the page could definitivly be improved. It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team that folks to join which users can subscribe bugs too for those who are interested and wish to do the work of linking to existing Debian bugs or creating them at the Debian side where necessary? If somebody wishes to help fix and patch a bug after that is even better. ;-) Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Philip Wyett philwy...@gmx.com writes: It could. Maybe additions of: - List of participants. https://alioth.debian.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=30862 - A collecting of the more useful links to get you started from the Debian wiki. - Reporting of bugs in Ubuntu and then recommended but voluntary how to check Debian bugs and go through that process. Probably. Whilst musing... I know we have now the team to market and promote which is this one and we have a void of no devel team visible on the Ubuntu side any longer. Would it be feasible to maybe setup a games swat team What problem would creating a new team solve that couldn't be done within the Debian Games Team itself? Is using a mailing list ending in @alioth.debian.org instead of @ubuntu.com such an obstacle? why? -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com writes: It's already a problem? Really? The problem i think you're trying to say is simply confusing the packaging team with this team. Firstly, i don't see how people would be so confused. Let's see. There is already a well known, established team in debian called the Debian Games Team. It actually cares for Games in both debian *and* ubuntu. Now a new team is created named Ubuntu Gameing Team that doesn't claim to work on actually packaging games. Is it really so hard to see the confusion here? An outsider (including members of the first team) will almost certainly assume a competition between the two teams. AFAIUI you don't seek competition. Moreover, I feel that competition is actually harmful here. I fully agree to Scott, the name of the team is very unfortunate. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 12:34 +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote: Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com writes: It's already a problem? Really? The problem i think you're trying to say is simply confusing the packaging team with this team. Firstly, i don't see how people would be so confused. Let's see. There is already a well known, established team in debian called the Debian Games Team. It actually cares for Games in both debian *and* ubuntu. Do they care for Ubuntu games as their wiki pages make no mention of Ubuntu whatsoever. http://wiki.debian.org/Games Now a new team is created named Ubuntu Gameing Team that doesn't claim to work on actually packaging games. Is it really so hard to see the confusion here? An outsider (including members of the first team) will almost certainly assume a competition between the two teams. AFAIUI you don't seek competition. Moreover, I feel that competition is actually harmful here. I fully agree to Scott, the name of the team is very unfortunate. Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. So long as you can join their mailing list and give the enough homage, I'm sure you can avoid political rumblings. It would be good to be able to join interested people from Ubuntu communities to interested groups in Debian without fear that the people will get caught in a war. Regards, Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 08:02 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: Some confusion maybe seen from the naming, but I see no real issue. The team members who wish too can look at and work with more specific Ubuntu issues and act as a conduit between the teams of both distributions to make things better. Many teams work in this way and I see no real competition or massive problems and a hopeful flow of information would only be productive. So long as you can join their mailing list and give the enough homage, I'm sure you can avoid political rumblings. lol, Mutual respect and collaboration I do. It would be good to be able to join interested people from Ubuntu communities to interested groups in Debian without fear that the people will get caught in a war. Nobody wants disharmony or a war in any form. We hopefully collaborate to the mutual benefit of both projects and the wider community. Regards Phil signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
2009/4/26 Jan Claeys li...@janc.be: Op vrijdag 24-04-2009 om 09:08 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Danny Piccirillo: Alright, i'll bottom-post for you =] Now also try to snip away irrelevant text from what you quote. ;-) That makes it much faster to read mail! It's also faster (and cheaper) for those of us on 3g connections to download too. Cheers, Al. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Danny Piccirillo wrote: In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. So is not about taking in part in code development? FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. Or is it? Code will be easily reused... Is this team planning on doing things like set up a Ubuntu Wesnoth game server, create campaigns/scenarios for Wesnoth and then get Ubuntu users to use the Ubuntu game server/campaigns/scenarios and establish an Ubuntu gaming community? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Op vrijdag 24-04-2009 om 09:08 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Danny Piccirillo: Alright, i'll bottom-post for you =] Now also try to snip away irrelevant text from what you quote. ;-) That makes it much faster to read mail! -- Jan Claeys -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu Gaming Team
In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Instead of thinking of this as working at a distro level, think of it as simply organizing around the well established ubuntu community. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 04:41, Caroline Ford caroline.ford.w...@googlemail.com wrote: Improving FOSS games at a distro level? Why not just participate upstream? Also are you going to work with the Debian games team and work on packaging? Caroline Sent from a mobile device. On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:33, Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote: In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.netubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce. You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins Creed or Call of Duty World at War. *That's where the problem is; studios aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate. *It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here and studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely more chance of success backing the Egg. If you build it, they will come If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users. They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling their games. If there was a Steam for Linux, showing off the best of Linux gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and small) would consider Linux as a viable platform. Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More users will move over and more companies will develop for it. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote: In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaminghttps://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Gaming Team
In response to Oli, isn't your first argument like comparing Windows to Ubuntu? Maybe Ubuntu is a little bit ahead compared to FOSS gaming versus proprietary games, but that's what this team was set up to change. We understand the arguments for porting commercial games to Linux, and don't deny that that will help migration to Linux, but this team is not just about Linux adoption. This is for people who care about FOSS games, and software freedom for all software. As already stated, there is already development of Wine for Windows games and pressure on video game publishers to release games for Linux, and Valve is supposedly working on that (although i haven't heard anything new on that in a while). Although those things will help Linux adoption, that simply isn't what this team is about, so if your interest ends at getting commercial games on Linux, then this team isn't for you =] On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:07, Senectus . senec...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/24 Oli Warner o...@thepcspy.com How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce. You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins Creed or Call of Duty World at War. *That's where the problem is; studios aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate. *It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here and studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely more chance of success backing the Egg. If you build it, they will come If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users. They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling their games. If there was a Steam for Linux, showing off the best of Linux gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and small) would consider Linux as a viable platform. Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More users will move over and more companies will develop for it. Some of your points are quite valid, though it's untrue to paint all high profile games with the same damned brush. ID quite quickly release Linux Native Ports of most their games (Doom, Quake, Quake ET etc) Epic used to, though the technology/licenses they chose for the latest incarnation of UT doesn't appear to be making life easy for Icculus to port. LGP port quite high profile games, though their method or possibly business model can be quite slow at times to get it out the door (I beta test for these guys as much as I can). I think we're starting to see growth in the indy Linux port market (Lugaru/Overgrowth, Darwinia etc), but this is all moot anyway as the original poster was quite clear in saying this is not really about pushing commercial games. it's about FOSS gaming. To tell you the truth, I'm not yet quite sure how this can be of help other than canonical and the Ubuntu community can offer something that the FOSS community sorely needs... Organisation. I suspect this is the weakest point of this genre, lots and lots of well meaning and sporadically enthusiastic individuals but little focus and staying power. I'll watch this with interest, and help where I can but I'm afraid I'm a little over committed IRL at the moment to be much use. -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-market...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Improving FOSS games at a distro level? Why not just participate upstream? Also are you going to work with the Debian games team and work on packaging? Caroline Sent from a mobile device. On 24 Apr 2009, at 09:33, Danny Piccirillo danny.picciri...@ubuntu.com wrote: In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming- team.html Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming ubuntu-gam...@lists.launchpad.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
2009/4/24 Oli Warner o...@thepcspy.com: How do you expect FOSS to make serious gains into the gaming market? Big commercial games (read COD, Oblivion, Fallout, most RPGs) are like interactive movies and they take about the same amount of money and manpower to produce... That's something FOSS is rarely going to be able to reproduce. You're treating this as if Windows gamers don't use Ubuntu because they don't have enough access to FOSS games. Truth is, most popular FOSS games have binary installers for Windows but you ask one Windows gamer if they care about something like Nexuiz and chances are they've never heard of it because they're too busy with the likes of Fallout 3, Bioshock, Assassins Creed or Call of Duty World at War. That's where the problem is; studios aren't making the games for Linux so gamers don't migrate. It's Chicken vs Egg. You're pushing for the Chicken. Get the gamers here and studios will make the games cross-platform. But I think you infinitely more chance of success backing the Egg. If you build it, they will come If I were you, I'd talk to small independent game studios. Give them a route-to-market (coming up next) and help them with the development. There are a couple of companies that provide porting services but they're not in-house, they're not cheap and they're not ideal for the end-users. They're still commercial games, so they still need to sell. One thing stopping companies moving over is there isn't a decent platform for selling their games. If there was a Steam for Linux, showing off the best of Linux gaming (both FOSS and commercial), I think a LOT more companies (large and small) would consider Linux as a viable platform. Once that reaches critical mass, your work is done. Critical mass. More users will move over and more companies will develop for it. Yes, but look what happens when game devs try to port their work to Linux: http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/09/mini-rant.html No wonder they stay far away. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Il giorno ven, 24/04/2009 alle 14.48 +0300, Dotan Cohen ha scritto: Yes, but look what happens when game devs try to port their work to Linux: http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/09/mini-rant.html No wonder they stay far away. I looked at the blog post you pointed out. You should stay away of such a stupid thing as a blog for hating something. Indeed the blog post is biased. If you follow the link, you'll find a set of normal questions from a non-linux game developer, and the first answers that they got are entirely reasonable. There's not so much to say: SDL is dated but it's working well. OpenGL is the state-of-the-art 3d graphics library. That's what i can read in the replies. And the conclusion is that linux for now may have worse tools, but you'll surely get the job done. V. -- It is also important to note that hedgehogs do not actually hurt each other when they get close to one another. Actually, when living in groups, hedgehogs often sleep close to each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog%27s_dilemma -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was really hard for me to tell which one to drop. In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to cause problems. First, while an effort like you are describing might benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro), it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a goal. As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu. This team is the Debian Games team. Based on the first reply to your message, you've already created a point of confusion. Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages). I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one that isn't going to cause confusion. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really confusing. This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game development. Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list. This list is to discuss development of Ubuntu. Your announcement seems to be at most about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu. I think it's off topic. I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more appropriately to that goal. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the announcement, but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem then it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be. thanks, .danny On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was really hard for me to tell which one to drop. In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to cause problems. First, while an effort like you are describing might benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro), it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a goal. As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu. This team is the Debian Games team. Based on the first reply to your message, you've already created a point of confusion. Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages). I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one that isn't going to cause confusion. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really confusing. This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game development. Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaminghttps://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list. This list is to discuss development of Ubuntu. Your announcement seems to be at most about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu. I think it's off topic. I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more appropriately to that goal. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
Top posting fixed. Ugh. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was really hard for me to tell which one to drop. In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to cause problems. First, while an effort like you are describing might benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro), it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a goal. As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu. This team is the Debian Games team. Based on the first reply to your message, you've already created a point of confusion. Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages). I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one that isn't going to cause confusion. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really confusing. This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game development. Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaminghttps://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list. This list is to discuss development of Ubuntu. Your announcement seems to be at most about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu. I think it's off topic. I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more appropriately to that goal. Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the announcement, but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem then it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be. It already is a problem. I think this team is woefully misnamed. The Debian games team is not the packaging subsidiary of your team. As I said, I think you chose very poorly in your approach to naming this team. There is nothing Ubuntu specific about it. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:02, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: Top posting fixed. Ugh. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was really hard for me to tell which one to drop. In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to cause problems. First, while an effort like you are describing might benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro), it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a goal. As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu. This team is the Debian Games team. Based on the first reply to your message, you've already created a point of confusion. Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages). I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one that isn't going to cause confusion. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really confusing. This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game development. Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaminghttps://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list. This list is to discuss development of Ubuntu. Your announcement seems to be at most about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu. I think it's off topic. I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your team more appropriately to that goal. Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games team for packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with the announcement, but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it becomes a problem then it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it will be. It already is a problem. I think this team is woefully misnamed. The Debian games team is not the packaging subsidiary of your team. As I said, I think you chose very poorly in your approach to naming this team. There is nothing Ubuntu specific about it. Scott K Alright, i'll bottom-post for you =] It's already a problem? Really? The problem i think you're trying to say is simply confusing the packaging team with this team. Firstly, i don't see how people would be so confused. If a person is looking for the packaging team, i am sure they will find it. If i add a link from
Re: [Ubuntu-gaming] Ubuntu Gaming Team
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 09:08 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote: On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:02, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: Top posting fixed. Ugh. On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many lists, but it was really hard for me to tell which one to drop. In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu Gaming Team has been formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of today, the team is now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working towards improving FOSS games and developing its community will turn a significant barrier against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to switch. The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles hindering growth in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed content management or significant investment in free content development in order to promote FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS gaming. New ideas are encouraged and appreciated. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names is going to cause problems. First, while an effort like you are describing might benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within Ubuntu (the distro), it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu community towards a goal. As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that works with Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu. This team is the Debian Games team. Based on the first reply to your message, you've already created a point of confusion. Ubuntu (the distro) doesn't need a team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is already a joint Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this - another example is the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and related packages). I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names and select one that isn't going to cause confusion. FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality games is one of the most cited reasons preventing users from switching from Windows. Gamers, who currently feed off of the proprietary software model, represent a large and valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually migrate to Ubuntu until their needs are met. They are very capable of understanding the ideological and technical benefits of using a free operating system like Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher value is placed on high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not budge until the pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through FOSS gaming. The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push for commercial games on Linux as significant effort is already put into the development of Wine and pressuring video game publishers to port their work to Linux. Once FOSS gaming reaches its tipping point, code and content will be easily reused to foster the development of new games and innovative ideas in gaming. The Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized effort to support FOSS gaming. http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is really confusing. This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS game development. Launchpad: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaminghttps://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam #ubuntu-gaming http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Finally, you sent
Re: Ubuntu Gaming Team
I looked at the blog post you pointed out. You should stay away of such a stupid thing as a blog for hating something. Indeed the blog post is biased. If you follow the link, you'll find a set of normal questions from a non-linux game developer, and the first answers that they got are entirely reasonable. There's not so much to say: SDL is dated but it's working well. OpenGL is the state-of-the-art 3d graphics library. That's what i can read in the replies. Not at all. The Linux Hater's blog is a Linux advocate who is showing what is wrong with Linux and the FOSS community in general. And the conclusion is that linux for now may have worse tools, but you'll surely get the job done. The conclusion was that the dev was attacked by the Linux community for various reasons, mostly his unwillingness to have GCC, Xorg and other components patched. He did not want a kludge. The problem is that Linux does not yet offer a stable API to game devs. Just look at Pulse Audio. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
